FOUND! Our bailout money. It's gone offshore.

[elehhhhna]

http://businessmirror.com.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3931:aigs-offshore-strategies-hide-a-scam&catid=28:opinion&Itemid=64

http://www.smartbrief.com/news/cpa/storyDetails.jsp?issueid=6B28F075-794F-491E-B056-A0297FD4084B©id=57BF6E86-812F-44BF-BE8B-C5A2334AE8A1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3543754/HSBC-and-Credit-Suisse-drawn-into-US-tax-probe.html

Bonus Q: If you have no gains from your offshore holdings, must you still report the assets to the IRS?

[Art_from_Ark]

1. If you have overseas assets with a cumulative value of $10,000

at any time during the year, you must report them to the Treasury Department

[Festivito]

21. Not if your account runs through the Caymans.

Or, any of the other money-washing countries. You can hide it, and now that, as a bank, you created money and can show huge losses, your offshore global company magically makes a profit, the money is returned here, and NO TAXES ARE PAID because your faked-money losses zero your incurred taxes on the money you fake-made to the tune of 6.9T$.

We're not talking Japan where you don't have to even count your change, and a bank is so fastidious, if you overdraw you can't have an account there for the rest of your life. I'm talking the we got a good thing going if we keep our mouths shut kind of bank.

[MajorChode]

28. Not only can you get out of paying taxes....

But you can get around all sorts of other laws as well.

While Cheney was CEO of Haliburton, he was frustrated because he couldn't do business with countries the US had deemed as sponsors of terrorism. So he had a wholly owned subsidiary open up a mail drop in the Caymans which they called their HQ and they proceeded to open up an office in Tehran and were doing business with them even after the Iraq war started and well after Bush II had labeled them part of the "Axis of Evil". It was all perfectly legal.

So long as Republicans have any control over congress, those laws will never change. Why? Because they believe that only the little people should have to be bothered with taxes and laws. For them there are always loopholes they use to claim they have always done the right thing. That's how those people think, and believe it or not Republicans love them for it. A good number of them wanted to make Romney president and he admitted he was a master of the off-shore tax dodge for rich people. McCain did political favors for a crook so he could steal the life savings of elderly people, but because he technically did nothing illegal he claims he was "vindicated".

Cheney, Romney, and McCain. Possibly the best loved figures of the right in our time and all of them are evil to the core.

[truedelphi]

30. The fianl paragraphs of the first article listed in the OP offer proof that

You know what you are talking about

"In 2002, the IRS and the Treasury required transactions with captives to trigger disclosure, list-maintenance and registration requirements 'based on information that many of these arrangements were being used to shift income improperly to PORCs for purposes of avoiding income tax.'

However, in September 2004, the Bush administration abolished that rule. The IRS commissioner said, “Based on disclosures by taxpayers and examination of tax returns, we have determined problems associated with these transactions are not as prevalent as initially believed.' "

[Turbineguy]

2. So it turns out that the US taxpayers own 80%

of a criminal enterprise.

[fascisthunter]

7. Too Bad "we" Aren't Calling the Shots

but yes... we own the criminal enterprise and the criminals are doing everything possible to prevent us from doing anyting about it.

[earth mom]

3. I've known they were pulling this shit for years. Wall Street is a CRIMINAL enterprise.

Connect the dots folks, these people have been STEALING from all of us! :puke:

[.... callchet ....]

5. Wall Street

accumulates wealth and doesn't build anything

[.... callchet ....]

4. Why oh why

does it make heros out of people that don't want to pay the dues to keep this country running ?

[w8liftinglady]

6. Can you explain to me how this works,exactly(I hate to be stupid,but....)

I am trying to understand this well for my next ltte ;)

[.... callchet ....]

8. I didn't

understand your post

[w8liftinglady]

9. How does this work,exactly...I'm a nurse with very little financial knowledge

How do they move money to offshore accounts...what are the implications...why is it illegal...how did they move bailout money there?

[.... callchet ....]

10. They

move it with electronic transfers. It is illegal if it is done in secrecy to avoid taxes and all those offshore and foreign banks pride themselves on secrecy. If you have money in a bank here you pay taxes on it. If you transfer your money out you pay a different tax, usually minuscule. The bailout money was given to them and then it was theirs to do with what they want. It was supposed to inject money in the system for more credit for people and companies to borrow. But they just sat on it or used it in their own self interest. Nobody really expected them to do anything with it. LIke the presidential pardons, it was a gift to the wealthy. The bottom line is that you have to get money in the hands of poor people so it will be spent, not sent offshore.

[w8liftinglady]

11. thank you So much...that makes it a lot clearer

[bertman]

12. Thanks for the cliff-notes version, callchet. I think most of us knew that would be the

end result of the "emergency bailout" (or as FrankFactor calls it, the Financial Failure Reward), we just did not know what mechanisms would be used to accomplish the rip-off.

[.... callchet ....]

14. Isn't it funny

how the same people that were for the bailout and helping american industry are some of the same people that want the auto Industry to fail. They weren't for the US industry , they were for supplying minimum wage workers to US industry. It is hard to hide an agenda. To bad the agenda isn't human rights. I watch the whale wars and I watch Darfur. We have a long way to go.Or some of us are there and we need a lot of other people to change.

[bertman]

22. Not funny ha ha, but yes, definitely "funny". I'm watching Zeitgeist, the addendum, which

is the most succinct, comprehensive explanation of what is happening with the U.S. and world economy that I have ever read, heard, or seen.

zeitgeistmovie.com

The international banking empire using the United States banking system and its major corporations to control the flow of money, resources, and manufactured goods with the end goal of world domination.

Well worth the two hours to watch it. And, if you haven't seen the first zeitgeist movie be sure to watch it also.

[valerief]

31. Thanks for mentioning this. I had meant to see Zeitgeist and finally did today.

I first watched The Movie and then watched The Addendum, which blew me away. Anyway, I'm glad I caught your post, because tonight I'll go to sleep thinking about a world without a monetary system and without all the hardships to the human race the monetary system brings.
:hi:

[bertman]

32. The concept offered by the Venus Project is intriguing, to say the least. I think it's

worth considering and maybe even pursuing, but I keep having nagging doubts about the basic philosophy. The reason being that their idea that conflict and competition are the result of scarcity seems a bit naive to me.

The wars of the past and present have almost always (if not ALWAYS) been products of the privileged who already had more than enough for themselves yet that still was not enough. How do we overcome that genetic defect or adaptation or whatever you want to call it?

And just one more idea to consider when you awaken from your sweet sleep: the monetary system has only really been in play for 100 years as a construct of the U.S. banking system by and for international bankers. Granted, the concept of loans and financing seems to date back to the earliest historical times, or at least as far back as the Greek city-states, so it seems ingrained in cultural, if not genetic, makeup.

I'm sorry if this puts a damper on the idea of the Venus Project. The video really set me to thinking about how it might play out. Any thoughts?

[valerief]

33. Yes, it's that damn Y chromosome that screws up life on earth.

Maybe technology can fix that.

:)

Actually, they noted that it's the lack of education that allows others to exploit people. Education would have to be human value to exist in such a world, because with education comes a defense against exploitation. An exploiter needs a LOT of people for the exploitation to work to his advantage, so that would mean the need to win over a lot of ignorant people. If ignorance wasn't a value, he shouldn't be able to succeed.

I'm not really a Pollyanna who plays the Glad Game. Actually, I'm quite cynical. However, the Venus Project seems like the only long-term solution for the planet. I know, it will never come to be, but it's really the only way. So we know, just like each of us, the planet will die, and like most of us, sooner than it should.

[bertman]

35. Now now. Don't forget Maggie and Sarah.

LOL

[valerief]

36. Aberrations. Merely aberrations. nt

[w8liftinglady]

13. here's a video of Jim Cramer slamming the banks for not disclosing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/22/jim-cramer-slams-banks-fo_n_152996.html?page=5

[.... callchet ....]

15. That is a guy

with a lot to lose putting it in the line. He knows what he is doing and does it. He is a humanitarian.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. looking for the NYT article Cramer cites

thanks in advance!

[w8liftinglady]

18. More info on Bob Rubin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin

[valerief]

34. Mr. Tantrum. Can't stand him. nt

[w8liftinglady]

17. I challenge every DUer in every state to write a letter to the editor

exposing these evil bastards.Enlighten your neighbor.100,000 letters would spread this knowledge to a lot of people.GO!

[.... callchet ....]

20. People first

Everybody always says, oh well there is nothing you can do about it. I have been observing this world for a long time and here is the solution.

Everybody deserves food, shelter, clothing, health care, child care and a job. The battle cry has to be " People First " The program is to write

every congressman and senator and tell them that they are out if they don't support " People First ". The self centered selfish people are going to

scream bloody murder, yell socialist, communist and whatever, but it is in their best interest in the long run. Everybody deserves the right to life

liberty and the pursuit of happiness. " People First " I want everybody to be rich and I want everybody to pay to keep this country going. Obama

has to bite the bullet and tax assets and revisit the progressive income tax schedule. If everybody has the basics, what is there to lose ?


" People First "

[w8liftinglady]

25. Agreed-you don't know me too well-peruse when you have a few hours

this is a small representation of what I've had printed in my local neo-con paper..

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/w8liftinglady
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2067094
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2942911
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3399709
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3053265
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3040906
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x357024
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x369670
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2983689
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x930416
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2980073
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1141550
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x13787
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1174509
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x475457
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x16058
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2197790
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1971588
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x326094
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x326094
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4344448
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x12267
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x12148
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x11718
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x11718
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4742295&mesg_id=4742295

[specimenfred1984]

24. I disagree with the results, 100,000 letters would equal about 1% response

Americans only believe what their propaganda masters tell them, regardless of the validity, proof and undeniable truth being told. History doesn't matter either, the only thing that will turn the brainwashed around is an event so large that it cannot be denied, covered-up or ignored. That event will be a worldwide depression and bankruptcy.

[w8liftinglady]

26. you believe what you want.I still believe people can make a difference.

[specimenfred1984]

37. lol, you keep believing a paid off politico gives a shit about you

and have fun organizing 100,000 people to do your bidding.

[Festivito]

19. Bonus Q: Who cares, when you have enough FAKE losses to not pay taxes..

when you bring the faked money back into the US.

Money for free, tax free.

[specimenfred1984]

23. Argentinian elites took their money out right before the country collapsed

but Americans remain convinced "it can't happen here". Of course, 48% of Amurikkkans voted for a racist old kook and a T and A show too so that's a good insight into the intelligence of the average Americans. Combine those self-deluded repukes with about 1/2 of dems who remain thoroughly brainwashed with bargain hunting greed propaganda and it'll-turn-around-speak and "I believe in redemption" pacifists who will let criminals and traitor go unpunished and guess what?

The year 2009 will likely be the year the U.S. collapses financially and the entire world is forced to restructure it's entire system of trade.

[Scooter24]

27. Bonus Q: No.

If you have money offshore that doesn't gain interest or income, then you do not have to report it to the IRS. Many major companies and wealthy investors use these non-interest bearing numbered accounts to keep stock and investment purchases quiet as to not manipulate the market.

These accounts also provide wealthy individuals a means to keep their assets protected through trusts or other means and limit their exposure. These accounts allow for you to limit explicit "ownership" of your assets but allows you to control those assets through a mix of limited liability entities and trusts with privacy protections. As long as the money remains non-interest bearing, it is free from IRS reporting.

[dems_rightnow]

29. I see you're not familiar with

IRS Form TD F 90-22, and the penalties for not filing it. The numbered accounts are used so as not to get CAUGHT not telling the IRS about them.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf