Are these guys wackjobs or not? I can't tell

[EstimatedProphet]

http://americanpreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/

On the one hand, I understand and applaud the idea of being sensibly prepared for desperate times. They are coming, whether we like it or not. The only real question is the magnitude.

On the other hand, it really looks like on some levels they are hoping for the system to crash. also, they seem to be the sort that like to refer to themselves as patriots, and although I admire real patriots, I question a lot of the people that like to publicly refer to themselves that way. Reminds me of people that introduce themselves as Christians - far too often they really aren't.

[dorkulon]

1. Doesn't look too good.

The bald eagle/flag picture is generally the calling card of a Freeptard.

[babylonsister]

2. They sound like survivalists to me.

I don't think my small pantry stocked with soup and beans qualifies.

[EstimatedProphet]

4. They do have survivalist stuff plastered all over

I don't mind survivalism, in theory. I think it has positive qualities, like self-sufficiency and concern for the local community. The problem is that 1) survivalism tends to draw racist paranoids for some reason, from what I've seen, and 2) it too often quits being about a lifestyle and becomes almost a religion.

[patrice]

6. . . . about religion and TAXES. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

8. True

[Pioneerliving]

10. Survivalism

Hello People,

Well, Survivalist? Homesteaders? Patriots?

Most are not religious fanatics, nor a militia, nor some government party. No! They are just people! People that care about freedom and civil rights.

Let me explain what you would call a survivalist is:
Keep strong........




What does it mean to be a survivalist some will ask?


It means being prepared for what life brings through planning, learning, and preparing for any possible future.

Often when people think about a survivalist, they envision someone who is trained in the outdoors and can survive off the land but a survivalist also stock piles food and possibly weapons to prepare for a disaster and the future unknown.

A survivalist tries to live the most meaningful life, and prepares for the possibilities of the future. This often comes through being as self sufficient as possible, and being responsible for one's own self and family, protection, health, and sustenance as well as shelter.

Common thought is to be a survivalist; one must live in the country on many acres of ranch or farmland. Although this may be ideal, there are other aspects for a survivalist to consider:

Being able to buy a plot of land in the country and still have a job that pays well is limiting by both population and by industry but can be done.

As most advise when it comes to the cities on survival “get out”.


I will leave you with this thought:

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

Hope that helps
http://www.pioneerliving.net

[Maru Kitteh]

26. comment reserved.

[qwertyMike]

43. Patriotism?

That's a meaningless word.

And what's all this got to do with so-called patriotism when you say "possibly weapons".
To use on who?
Your compatriots?

I did the back-to-the land thing in the 80's, lived with no electricity or running water for 6 years in E Canada. I think there was a recession then, but I didn't notice it.
I never saw any need for a gun.

[Mojorabbit]

50. Hi there

I have been to your website before whilst researching the making of charcoal. You have some wonderful how to info there.

[JimShyWolf]

13. pantry qualification

babylonsis- no, it doesn't really qualify, but it's a good start: at least you have a pantry, start filling it.
Shy

[Maru Kitteh]

28. Why oh why? Don't be shy! Why shall we fill our pantries?

Please let us know why we need to fill our pantries.

[WheelWalker]

38. I think it's prudent, and not uncommon among sentient beings. Have you not

heard the story of the ant and the grasshopper? Think of it as your hedge fund investment. Personally, I'm a little squirrely.

[sendero]

97. When your food supply..

... comes to your city by trucks and if the trucks stopped would VANISH in a matter of days, you'd be a moron not to have some food on hand.

[Still Sensible]

3. Appears to be an offspring of the survivalist

network. I would be wary of paying a lot of attention with that pedigree.

[patrice]

5. It would be interesting to see who all they've decided to help to prepare and

how much and what kind of help different kinds of folks get to prepare in exchange for what.

[JimShyWolf]

12. in exchange

Patrice- what do you get in exchange for your auto insurance? How much do you pay for it? Preppers get the same 'comfort in knowing' they've paid their dues to keep their family secure. Same as you do.
Shy

[patrice]

15. Didn't say I objected. Only that it would be interesting.

Actually, as long as folk steer clear of the religious schtick and racism, I have been thinking for a while now, that this sort of thing could be the economic revolution that we need.

[JHB]

7. Looks like "survivalism" is back in fashion...

Happens every time some crisis is looming.

And you are correct. Some are simply taking a stance of "be prepared for the worst", but a whole lot (as a recent Michael Caine character put it) "just want to watch the world burn". The way they see it, by being prepared they'll be in a position to run things once the thin veneer of civilization breaks down and wider society chews itself to bits.

Not that there's be enough of these guys in any one place to do more than get overrun, but it's all part of the delusion.

[sohndrsmith]

71. you mean I'm in style? Who knew... : ) n/t

[hunter]

9. My plan is to wait the survivalists out.

Once they've killed one another off over petty religious and political differences, I'll tiptoe in like a little mouse and carry away their stockpiles, nobody the wiser...

[JimShyWolf]

25. lol, hunter

Hunter- in your dreams. None of the preppers I know would worry any more about you than the hair on their chin.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Where did hunter say survival/fundamentalists need to be worried about her/him?

Hunter said he/she would wait for the nutters to kill each other off. Get the difference, or are you still working on that short-pants level reading comprehension thingy?

[JimShyWolf]

11. Are these guys wackjobs? No, we are not.

Greetings, folks. Jim Shy Wolf here from the Minnesota
Preppers Network. You seem to be curious about us, so I'll
attempt to answer a few questions. Let me begin with this by
Estimated Prophet.
First- one has to define what a 'wackjob' is, since we may be
using different terminology: in my neck of the woods we spell
something similar as 'whackjob', which means 'put together in
a hurry' or 'put together by chance'. Well, we are neither.
Let me 'splain, Lucy.
The American Prepper Network was created to join all the
'preppers' out here in BlogLand, in effort to aid us all in
having a single location to gather information on 'prepping'. 
I can hear your heads rattling, "What's a
'prepper'?" Simple answer is, "A 'prepper' is
someone who prepares."
Do any of you have auto insurance? That is prepping. Do you
have home insurance? That is prepping. How about medical
insurance? That is prepping. Do you have a savings account,
stocks, bonds, etc? That is prepping. Do you have a few days
food supply in your cupboard? That is prepping. So, whether
you realize it or not, you all, hopefully, are 'preppers'. 
The American Prepper Network is taking these topics to a
different level. 
We all are aware of what happened during hurricane Katrina. (I
hope, anyway.) Also just last fall with hurricane Ike. Some of
you may even have been involved in very personal ways with
either of those. I live in Minnesota and we get some extreme
cold and lots of snow. Just as many did in New Orleans, I
prepare for inclement weather. I have some extra rations of
food and water, durable and weather appropriate clothing. That
is called 'prepping'.
There are different levels of 'prepping'. 
At the simplest form, it is having a few days or a week of
food and water in your home. No need to starve or be thirsty
if you are stuck during a storm. To not be prepared for
unfortunate circumstances is foolishness- we have families to
care for. To not do so is to not love or respect or care for
them.
Going one step beyond the week end of being
snowed/rained/tornadoed/flooded in, is the second stage of
prepping. We have more than a few days or a week of food,
water and clothing. To that, in my instance, I have added a
wood burning stove and necessary wood. I also own a chainsaw
and axe, wood splitter and storage area. I have the chainsaw
to clear roadways, as well, or whatever else a chainsaw is
good for. I am also an REMT- Registered Emergency Medical
Technician. I have a 'jump kit' filled with medical/emergency
supplies. Enough preps to deliver a baby if need be- and
sometimes here in the wilds that does happen. Babies don't
always come when you want them to. So I, and many other
'preppers', are trained medical personnel. It's just
'prepping'. Actually, it's not 'just prepping', it's 'smart'.
Any fool can let someone die or starve or go thirsty- the
smart person will aide them.
A step beyond the above prepping, is a more in-depth style.
These people, of which I am one, prepare for a more serious
'survival' situation, whatever that may be. To go without
electric power for a month, as New Orleans did- and longer-
when you can do something about it yourself is stupid. So I
have a generator. Many up here do- it's only smart. Of course,
if we KNEW when the disaster was going to hit, it'd be easy to
be ready for it. But that is not the nature of 'emergencies'.
So we prepare. We also have four wheel drive vehicles. Ever
try driving your eco-friendly Hyundi through two feet of snow
in a blizzard to get to a house fire? Ain't gonna happen. But
it does happen with 4WD trucks and SUVs. So we prepare. We do
not take life lightly. Ours or anyone else's. We prepare.
Some people think of 'preppers' or 'survivalists' as people
who are hiding in the woods waiting for the other shoe to
drop, for calamitous circumstances. That is not a 'prepper' or
'survivalist'. That is a 'doomer'. There's a big difference.
We are not shouting doom and gloom, waiting for the world to
come crashing down on our shoulders. Quite the opposite.
We are preparing to live. To keep our loved ones safe and
secure in difficult times. 
Some preppers form from family units or groups of friends or
church groups or just neighborhoods. We have groups who
perform 'neighborhood watch' groups: only makes sense when the
police are miles away. Just as we have volunteer firemen when
the 'big city' fire departments are miles away.
Preppers come in all flavors- red, white, brown, black, green
and blue. Preppers come from all walks of life. Retirees,
teachers, students, police, firemen, lawyers, ministers,
laymen of any sort. Some are religious, some are not. Some
preppers are shoe-string preppers saving on a very tight
budget. Some are wealthy and can have the 'best' of their
prepping desires. As you can see, we 'preppers' are from a
variety of backgrounds. We don't care, we just prep to save
lives.
About the only commonality in all 'preppers' is a love of the
country in which we live, love the Constitution upon which it
is based, and the only color we are under is red, white and
blue. To sum up what a 'prepper' is, is a difficult thing.
Perhaps the best way to do it is to say, "We prepare for
living."
Jim Shy Wolf

[Wiley50]

17. Hi Preppers! Welcome to DU

Have you looked around a bit?

[Joel the K]

23. Thank you

Thank you Wiley,
Nice hospitality. I will look around. Again, thanks.
-Joel the K

[FedUpWithIt All]

21. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[WheelWalker]

29. Good to see you. I'm

pretty much wacked out, myself. Just ask my kids. So, I wouldn't even mind if you were. Where you from? I enjoy thinking about my correspondents and where they live.

Blessings. And welcome to DU.

[Lebam in LA]

30. Welcome

You make a lot of sense.:hi:

[texastoast]

34. Welcome to DU!

Sounds like you have it handled. May it not come to pass. We can surely create something different than the expected chaos, but we have to join together to do it and help each other. Meanwhile, I'm all over the Boy Scout motto.

Do you think we will become migratory again?

[Mojorabbit]

35. Welcome to DU

I prep because I live in hurricane country. I was raised to be prepared for most emergencies.
I gave up on most prep websites as they were virulently right wing.

[B o d i]

39. Hi Jim, I have a couple of simple questions for you, if you don't mind

How do you feel about President Obama? Hopeful? Scared?

How about Norm Coleman? Good guy? Creepy? Simply misunderstood?

Also, an observation. You guys sure showed up rather promptly after this thread was started. Were your ears burning? How did you know there was a discussion going on about your group, to come join?

[cali]

40. I don't have a problem with being prepared

but it can be carried to the point where it becomes a fetish and morphs into what you call "doomers". And like any fetish it can become a substitute for living if obsessed on.

And no, I'm not some city slicker. I live in Vermont's Northeast Kingdom, in a small house that I heat with wood and where my water is gravity fed. I'm fairly prepared for disaster.

[Ghost in the Machine]

63. Excellent post... welcome to DU, Jim Shy Wolf

Don't be surprised, but you'll find many who will disparage you, and maybe even call you a 'white supremacist', because they know not of which they speak. Just try to overlook them and forgive their ignorance. You did a great job of educating people about your cause and stance...

Welcome also to 'Joel the K' and 'Pioneerliving'. :hi:


Peace,

Ghost

[pipi_k]

73. Actually, this sounds a lot like what people in my area have to do

not only in terms of being comfortable, but sometimes even for survival.

This past December parts of the Northeast were hit by an ice storm. I live in a very rural area of the Hilltowns of Western Mass that took a pretty good hit. People out here know that snowstorms and ice storms can make it virtually impossible to travel anywhere at all, and there's always the danger that power will be cut off for some time. So, many people keep extra supplies on hand anyway because of the distance into town. Then we stock up a little more. And we have generators. And four-wheel drive vehicles and ATVs and snowmobiles. Snowplows...chain saws...guns and ammunition.

And people generally watch out for each other.

That's just the way it is, and it makes sense.

Self-sufficiency mixed with interdependence.


:)

[ProfessorGAC]

76. Yawn!

Yeah, you've to it all figured out. And it hardly seems nutty.

Oh wait. Yes it does.
GAC

[Canuckistanian]

93. Welcome to DU!

:toast:
:hi:

Interesting group. Some here have actually been lobbying for an "Emergency and Preparedness" forum.
Sounds like you have the same basic philosophy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. Welcome. Being prepared is prudent. Too many are turning into miniature Burt Gummers.

By all means, stockpile canned food, because it could get pretty bad.

Those who stockpile ammo? They are either;
a) preparing for an extremely unlikely scenario
b) preparing for a scenario in which they can exploit the neighbor's pantry

Better to buy rice.

[Tom From Idaho]

107. Nope not looking to prepare for an unlikely scenario

1)not planning to overthrow the government
2)Not planning to exploit the neighbors pantry

what we are prepping for

1)Stopping the Neighbor from exploiting our pantry
2)Defending ourselves from express kidnappings. Happens quite a lot in Argentina, since they had their economic collapse. don't keep your head in the sand by assuming it's unlikely to happen here
3)Prepping for the possible future need for localized and organized militia (I DO NOT mean that in the negative way that that word has come to mean)
but for a SHTF kind of scenario where government completely collapses and all hell breaks loose. Cities and communities will continue to need to have order and defense, (cops will not be enough, especially if there is no money to pay them), defense from the ravages of angry, hungry, and desperate mobs of people who will take anything they can get (because they have been unprepared). Don't be so ignorant to think it can't or is unlikely to happen here. Considering the track record of the entire world, that no country has always existed, that most countries are short-lived, that all eventually collapse in one form or another, It is actually extremely likely that we will experience a SHTF scenario, Those who would be unprepared for defense as well as food and water would be foolish. Not trying to be a Doomsdayer, or try to fear people, but to teach others the need to prepare for any unexpected or expected danger or disaster, so that there will be less to fear.

[lumberjack_jeff]

108. I read magazines such as backwoods home

Because I really appreciate the idea of self-suffiency.

But I find the treatment of "preparation" as synonymous with "arsenal" to be paranoid.

I have a shotgun and 100 shells. If, in event of major catastrophe, I need to shoot birds for meat, I'll eventually run out. I'll ride my bicycle to the impromptu outdoor market to trade for more. Rice and flour, on the other hand, I can't live for long without.

If a person lives in a place where a really significant risk of unrest and disorder exists, perhaps a handgun may be a good addition. If you hunt deer at a distance? A rifle. Beyond that, it becomes either a hobby or an obsession. I have a friend who has (15) model 1911 pistols for "protection". One for each hand with 13 spares, I suppose.

Survivalists underestimate the resilience of society. Anarchy is unstable, it never persists for long. If society collapses, another grows in the ashes.

You used the example of Argentina. If Pinochet takes over in this country, there's very little that even the most complete individual arsenal can do to prevent being disappeared, but the arsenal does draw undue attention.

Meanwhile, the average person continues about their daily business.

It's good to be prepared, unless you're preparing for the wrong stuff.

[Tom From Idaho]

109. I agree with most of what you say.

I don't have many guns myself. Excess ammo is for the possibility of there not being any ammo at the outdoor market during a SHTF kind of scenario. Also, the extra guns we hold onto are to disperse to those who were so Anti-gun prior to that type of situation, eventually they may decide they need one. Also makes for a very valuable barter item, should one need more rice and flour. (though if you are really into the prepper "movement" you garden and raise livestock, so you won't need to stock much rice and flour) I know many like to shout out how many guns they have, but I for one, think that one should shut up and not bring "attention" to themselves by letting others know about their "arsenal". But that's me. I don't feel most of us prepare for the wrong stuff, just the known and "unknown"

[Joel the K]

14. the prophet who laughed at the patriot

I question a lot of the people that like to publicly refer to themselves that way. Reminds me of people that introduce themselves as Christians - far too often they really aren't.

You call yourself a "PROPHET", you introduce yourself as a prophet, yet you criticize us for being proud of loving our country. Here's a prophecy for you: the economy is going to crash, the shelves will go bare, and if you do not prepare, you will starve or become a slave. But you may still have time. I know its hard to believe. But if you examine the Baltic index which is a empirical, scientific forecast, and you have any kind of a brain to read the index, you will be trying to warn your loved ones. And people will call you a tinfoil hat wearing nutter. But you won't mind because you are following your conscience. God bless you estimatedprophet.

[Joel the K]

16. .

.

[Joel the K]

18. OhioPreppernetwork.com

Get your prep on!

[FedUpWithIt All]

20. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[WheelWalker]

32. I'm from

Toledo, originally. Been here since '59.

[NYC_SKP]

44. you mean this FREEPER site? ohiopreppersnetwork blogspot com/

?

http://ohiopreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/

[WheelWalker]

45. Oooo, good snag! I see Joel the K prominently featured. You're good, NYC_SKP. Thanks!

:fistbump: :nuke:

[NYC_SKP]

48. LOL!

You know, it's not every day that two new members jump on a thread and are connected to the same series of websites...

:fistbump:

It's kinda sad because I have no problems with being prepared, but, come on!

[Joel the K]

70. freeper?

A freeper site? Lets see what a freeper is since you are obsessed with placing all people into catagories.

FReeper 133 up, 82 down
Generally referring to individuals or multiple persona of the 'free republic' GOP front site. Free Republic is primarily a front for media reference and secondly a source for social subversion via formulaic talking points, of those who identify themselves as conservative for the ego and id fulfillment or peer acknowledgment. Such required to maintain the delusional mindset of 'socially conservative' (PC for anti-social). Freeper is also a description of behavioral or personality defects commonly associated with classic sociopathic themes, nazi like nationalism and racism, violent fanaticism, and an entirely predictable inability to elaborate on any political propaganda, assertions, or GOP talking points. Freepers follow the long standing republican tradition of ambiguous contrast to 'the liberals' as their political movement as the GOP is based primarily on destruction and division for the benefit of a few wealthy racists and has no agenda otherwise

GOP. Grand Old Party. No. I am not a member of the GOP. Nor am I a "democrat".
Here is a post from my blog I made a couple of days ago:
Stop The Madness

It is illegal for farmers to test their own cows for mad cow disease. Ask yourself why? Do you know what a prion is? Nobody really does. They do not fit into the catagory of a virus. They do not classify as bacteria. They are like an alien entity. They are mysterious microscopic beings which eat the brain of their host. Did you know countries like Japan have blocked U.S. beef from entering their country? Why? Could it be that mad cow disease is more widespread here in the USA than we are led to believe? Why aren't people allowed to test for it? If U.S. beef is safe, what's to hide? Scientists have reported that prions can lay dormant in the brain for 5 years before they begin to ravage the host. Prions are no joke. Cows are not for eating, and prions are just one more example of why cows are not for eating. Did you know American beef cattle are fed blood, manure, and slaughterhouse waste(body parts(cannibalism))? Find out more in this article taken from organicconsumers.org:
You dont agree? Are you a cow eater? Is mad cow disease good? Use your own mind NY-Skip, dont be so quick to judge and throw people into your catch-phrase name calling games. On second thought, just keep doing what you are doing. Evidently that's where you are at in this life of learning. And I would not want you to miss out on any lessons. Just try to use some manners once in awhile. It is offensive to be called a freeper. I pat taxes. I make minimum wage even though I have a college degree from Ohio University. I have been married to my wife for 15 years and we have two beautiful children. I served my country in the Army as an engineer. I voted for Bill Clinton. I even rooted for Hillary even though I disagreed with her. Why? Because men have been screwing it up for so long I thought maybe a woman could do better. I am against the war in Iraq. I studied philosophy from a prof. who studied under Friedrich Nietzsche. I have a degree in liberal arts. I am an animal lover. I was a vegetarian for many years and although I eat fish and eggs (brown-farm fresh only)and even poultry now and then, I NEVER eat cows. Cows are not for eating. My favorite book is Autobiography of a Yogi. I love India. I practice Kriya yoga. Does this fit your profile of a "FREEPER"? Or maybe you did not bother to read past the title. Why the name calling? Brother.

[texastoast]

89. Excellent points

I think you will bring a lot to our table. Welcome!

[Joel the K]

92. thank you

thank you Texastoast. I very much appreciate that. I noticed your posts right away when I was looking around. And it was easy to remember you because of your icon-avatar. Is that right? Don't we call those symbols or pics avatars? I know an avatar is an incarnation of God, like Lord Krisna, or Lord Buddha, but I'm talking about the cyber world definition of avatar. I ramble. Have a great day Los Tejas.

[Wiley50]

22. You folks might like this forum at DU

At this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

We have many members there you might make conversation with

[Mojorabbit]

36. that was uncalled for. nt

[NYC_SKP]

42. The sites I saw at the noobs links are pretty Freepish...

http://ohiopreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/

[Mojorabbit]

52. I know, I checked out

the florida one. Very freepish,... but the posters here were respectful.

[Joel the K]

72. name calling

Alot of you are seriously into name calling. What is this the 6th grade? You call this a forum? It's pathetic. Is there any logical discourse here? Or is this just a place for people who know all the latest catch-phrase lingo insults to gang up on regular family-guys like me? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying for positive change? Are you part of the solution? Or just continuing to spread animosity and division? Do you know yourself? Insecurity manifests in name calling. Raise the bar of the Democratic Underground, stop with the name-calling. And you regulars who post here all the time are condoning it with your silence. I am a man. Not a freeper or a "NOOB". Get it? Enough of the sophmoric attacks. It reflects bad on your entire website. Some of the other members were very classy and welcomed me warmly. What a difference they make.

[kas125]

24. lol - you aren't a deadhead, are you?

[Joel the K]

102. deadhead?

Yeah man I know it's the title of a song by the dead. I have been to shows. I went to Philly-89,cincinatti 88, legend valley 88 or 89 (cant remember), and one in Indiana, deer park or deer creek I cant remember the name of that place. I was simply making a point and wondering "why the name calling? Brother." Get it?

[RB TexLa]

19. Defiantly in need of a PEC

[BlooInBloo]

27. Isn't this what I see bunches of self-satisfied DUers yammering on about...

How they have canned beans enough to last for 76,000 years and stupid shit like that.

What's the big deal? Let them go to their graves 50 years from now with a stash of 76,000 bean-cans, swearing up and down that the end is coming TOMORROW, and that we'll all be sorry we weren't smart like THEY were.

[WheelWalker]

33. I do not

often see posts from you with a positive message. Is there a reason you care to share?

[BlooInBloo]

37. (shrug) I can explain a lot of things, but things you don't see isn't among them.

[WheelWalker]

41. Fair enough.

[ecstatic]

49. LOL! nt

[WheelWalker]

51. Agreed. Me too.

[Joel the K]

95. wheel

I just got the connection with your name "wheelwalker" and your avatar/symbol. That is cool. I like that. Have you ever read Tich Nat Hahn? (i probably spelled his name wrong). Ti is one of the most beautiful human beings I have ever seen or listened to.

[Joel the K]

94. easy

Easy now. It's not just beans. Did you know that historically, whiskey sells/trades for 200x its original price when supply-lines fail? This happened to the U.S.S.R. not so long ago. Its happening to Iceland right now. Greece is on the edge. Regardless, the 20 bottles or so of Southern Comfort I have put away will get better with age. And in the event of an eco-logistical collapse, they will be worth as much as 200x what I paid for them. That equals out to $ 60,000. Sixty-thousand dollars. So I could use these bottles to trade for medicine, toilet paper, feminine hygiene products, fuel, oil, books, or even just open a bottle and have a nice conversation with someone new. Either way, it is like a hobby, and it's pretty smart. It's not often a person sees an appreciation of 200x original cost. Well years ago on the NYSE, Pepboys shares performed similarly. It was because of the symbol on the NYSE ticker: pepboys, people were used to seeing symbols like amx or TWA, and short abbreviations like that, when they saw pepboys they thought it was a joke. No joke. People who bought in at $1.25 soon saw it rise to nearly $ 100 per share. Anyway, everybody is different you know. If we were all the same it would not be any fun.

[Tsiyu]

46. Interesting - Have to check that out

So far not so bad with the new posters except the one dude confusing your punny screenname with some sort of self-identification. That dude needs to back off.

Touchy critter, that one.

Welcome to the others; and I have to ask also, what made y'all hop on here so quickly?

[NYC_SKP]

47. OBAMA MARCHING TO THE BEAT OF A NEW WORLD ORDER

From the OHIO link at right of page linked in your OP.

OBAMA MARCHING TO THE BEAT OF A NEW WORLD ORDER

Obama's Usury Secretary, Tim Geithner is under orders to bring in the New World Order by way of a new tax on tax paying Americans: International taxation to fund "global governance".On January 28th, 2009, a group of Bilderbergers, Illuminati initiates, Trilateral Commissioners, and members from many other super-secret handshake clubs, will sneak away to Switzerland for the World Economic Forum. During this staged event, plans that were scripted last year in Chantilly, Virginia at the super-secret handshake Bilderberg meeting, will be made to appear spontaneous and "contributed" by “The Global Agenda 2009,” which is the facade for the entire pay-per-view production they are making this into.

[Tsiyu]

53. Yeah, just read that

Hmmm just what is a super-secret handshake?

[NoPasaran]

68. If they told you they'd have to kill you

And eat your brain. And wear your skin to fool the black helicopters.

[Joel the K]

75. super secret handshake

I am refering to the free-masons who have secret handshakes. Please watch this very brief speech by a great man and great president:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces&feature=related

[Pioneerliving]

54. Thanks

We are respectful thanks.

We alway like to know who is bloging about us.

[Wiley50]

55. Well, you were quite good at that

Your link wasn't posted here long when several of you seemed to come out of the woodwork

I should point out that We are DEMOCRATIC underground

and we tend to be very pro-Obama here

We are hoping that he can pull us back from the edge that Bush and gang put us on

with unnecessary wars and tax cuts and give aways to those who have most

and treat "the least of mine" like dirt

The working poor do not deserve to be hurt to benefit the mega rich

[Pioneerliving]

56. Oh

Thanks

I am happy to hear that and do agree with you.

EstimatedProphet was the one that made us come out and stand for ourselfs.

[Pioneerliving]

58. Note

I for one will leave now in peace and say good night.

Just a note: And no this is not a joke it is real, check it out for your self.



A new bill introduced in Congress authorizes the Department of Homeland Security to set up a network of FEMA camp facilities to be used to house U.S. citizens in the event of a national emergency..

The National Emergency Centers Act or HR 645 mandates the establishment of “national emergency centers” to be located on military installations for the purpose of to providing “temporary housing, medical, and humanitarian assistance to individuals and families dislocated due to an emergency or major disaster,” according to the bill.

The legislation also states that the camps will be used to “provide centralized locations to improve the coordination of preparedness, response, and recovery efforts of government, private, and not-for-profit entities and faith-based organizations”.

Ominously, the bill also states that the camps can be used to “meet other appropriate needs, as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security,” an open ended mandate which many fear could mean the forced detention of American citizens in the event of widespread rioting after a national emergency or total economic collapse.

Many credible forecasters have predicted riots and rebellions in America that will dwarf those already witnessed in countries like Iceland and Greece.

With active duty military personnel already being stationed inside the U.S. under Northcom, partly for purposes of “crowd control,” fears that Americans could be incarcerated in detainment camps are all too real.



The bill mandates that six separate facilities be established in different Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions (FEMA) throughout the country.

The camps will double up as “command and control” centers that will also house a “24/7 operations watch center” as well as training facilities for Federal, State, and local first responders..

The bill also contains language that will authorize camps to be established within closed or already operating military bases around the country.

As we have previously highlighted, in early 2006 Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root was awarded a $385 million dollar contract by Homeland Security to construct detention and processing facilities in the event of a national emergency.

The language of the preamble to the agreement veils the program with talk of temporary migrant holding centers, but it is made clear that the camps would also be used “as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency.”

As far back as 2002, FEMA sought bids from major real estate and engineering firms to construct giant internment facilities in the case of a chemical, biological or nuclear attack or a natural disaster.

A much discussed and circulated report, the Pentagon’s Civilian Inmate Labor Program, was more recently updated and the revision details a “template for developing agreements” between the Army and corrections facilities for the use of civilian inmate labor on Army installations.”

Alex Jones has attended numerous military urban warfare training drills across the US where role players were used to simulate arresting American citizens and taking them to internment camps.

Read the new legislation in full below.



National Emergency Centers Establishment Act (Introduced in House)

HR 645 IH

111th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 645

To direct the Secretary of Homeland Security to establish national emergency centers on military installations.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 22, 2009

Mr. HASTINGS of Florida introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and in addition to the Committee on Armed Services, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

——————————————————————————–

A BILL

To direct the Secretary of Homeland Security to establish national emergency centers on military installations.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `National Emergency Centers Establishment Act’.

SEC. 2.. ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY CENTERS.

(a) In General- In accordance with the requirements of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall establish not fewer than 6 national emergency centers on military installations.

(b) Purpose of National Emergency Centers- The purpose of a national emergency center shall be to use existing infrastructure–

(1) to provide temporary housing, medical, and humanitarian assistance to individuals and families dislocated due to an emergency or major disaster;

(2) to provide centralized locations for the purposes of training and ensuring the coordination of Federal, State, and local first responders;

(3) to provide centralized locations to improve the coordination of preparedness, response, and recovery efforts of government, private, and not-for-profit entities and faith-based organizations; and

(4) to meet other appropriate needs, as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

SEC. 3. DESIGNATION OF MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AS NATIONAL EMERGENCY CENTERS.

(a) In General- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate not fewer than 6 military installations as sites for the establishment of national emergency centers.

(b) Minimum Requirements- A site designated as a national emergency center shall be–

(1) capable of meeting for an extended period of time the housing, health, transportation, education, public works, humanitarian and other transition needs of a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster;

(2) environmentally safe and shall not pose a health risk to individuals who may use the center;

(3) capable of being scaled up or down to accommodate major disaster preparedness and response drills, operations, and procedures;

(4) capable of housing existing permanent structures necessary to meet training and first responders coordination requirements during nondisaster periods;

(5) capable of hosting the infrastructure necessary to rapidly adjust to temporary housing, medical, and humanitarian assistance needs;

(6) required to consist of a complete operations command center, including 2 state-of-the art command and control centers that will comprise a 24/7 operations watch center as follows:

(A) one of the command and control centers shall be in full ready mode; and

(B) the other shall be used daily for training; and

(7) easily accessible at all times and be able to facilitate handicapped and medical facilities, including during an emergency or major disaster.

(c) Location of National Emergency Centers- There shall be established not fewer than one national emergency center in each of the following areas:

(1) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions I, II, and III.

(2) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IV.

(3) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions V and VII.

(4) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region VI.

(5) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions VIII and X.

(6) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IX.

(d) Preference for Designation of Closed Military Installations- Wherever possible, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate a closed military installation as a site for a national emergency center. If the Secretaries of Homeland Security and Defense jointly determine that there is not a sufficient number of closed military installations that meet the requirements of subsections (b) and (c), the Secretaries shall jointly designate portions of existing military installations other than closed military installations as national emergency centers.

(e) Transfer of Control of Closed Military Installations- If a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Defense shall transfer to the Secretary of Homeland Security administrative jurisdiction over such closed military installation.

(f) Cooperative Agreement for Joint Use of Existing Military Installations- If an existing military installation other than a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of Defense shall enter into a cooperative agreement to provide for the establishment of the national emergency center.

(g) Reports-

(1) PRELIMINARY REPORT- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site–

(A) an outline of the reasons why the site was selected;

(B) an outline of the need to construct, repair, or update any existing infrastructure at the site;

(C) an outline of the need to conduct any necessary environmental clean-up at the site;

(D) an outline of preliminary plans for the transfer of control of the site from the Secretary of Defense to the Secretary of Homeland Security, if necessary under subsection (e); and

(E) an outline of preliminary plans for entering into a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f).

(2) UPDATE REPORT- Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site–

(A) an update on the information contained in the report as required by paragraph (1);

(B) an outline of the progress made toward the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(C) an outline of the progress made toward entering a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(D) recommendations regarding any authorizations and appropriations that may be necessary to provide for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(3) FINAL REPORT- Not later than 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site–

(A) finalized information detailing the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(B) the finalized cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(C) any additional information pertinent to the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(4) ADDITIONAL REPORTS- The Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, may submit to Congress additional reports as necessary to provide updates on steps being taken to meet the requirements of this Act.

SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS ON STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.

This Act does not affect–

(1) the authority of the Federal Government to provide emergency or major disaster assistance or to implement any disaster mitigation and response program, including any program authorized by the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq.); or

(2) the authority of a State or local government to respond to an emergency.

SEC. 5. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.

There is authorized to be appropriated $180,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2009 and 2010 to carry out this Act. Such funds shall remain available until expended.

SEC. 6. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act, the following definitions apply:

(1) CLOSED MILITARY INSTALLATION- The term `closed military installation’ means a military installation, or portion thereof, approved for closure or realignment under the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1990 (part A of title XXIX of Public Law 101-510; 10 U.S.C. 2687 note) that meet all, or 2 out of the 3 following requirements:

(A) Is located in close proximity to a transportation corridor.

(B) Is located in a State with a high level or threat of disaster related activities.

(C) Is located near a major metropolitan center.

(2) EMERGENCY- The term `emergency’ has the meaning given such term in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122).

(3) MAJOR DISASTER- The term `major disaster’ has the meaning given such term in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122).

(4) MILITARY INSTALLATION- The term `military installation’ has the meaning given such term in section 2910 of the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1990 (part A of title XXIX of Public Law 101-510; 10 U.S.C. 2687 note).

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[Wiley50]

60. That's old news here

Some of us have been concerned too.

But much less now that Bush is gone

[wolfgangmo]

78. This is seriously old news on DU.

Heck we've posted pictures.

A lot of us are not exactly poster boys for the rights idea of "Libruls." If you break into my house you may just find out what that means. I have worked in super- maximum security environments, own my own company along with my wife, live within my means, don't take hand outs and yet support universal health care, full funding of public education, and job training. I also don't think that corporations should get handouts and if they do they should come with strings attached and that we should scale back the military in the US and overseas. I believe that the active duty soldiers on US soil for US deployment is a HUGE mistake and that the Bush Cabal are national and international criminals who should be put in jail until the day they die and all of the their ill gotten gains should be taken. I believe in Dr. Guillotine when it comes to the current spate of white collar crimes. I am an expert rated shot and I and combat trained. Finally, I know that not everyone has my opinions and I accept that the multiplicity of opinion and experience is what makes America's potential so great and yet so dire.

So I hope you don't assume that we are all weak minded pantywaists. To even hint at such will only get you flamed into oblivion.

Welcome to the board.

[Wiley50]

59. Yes, I was reading EP's thread when Jim showed up

He sounded quite reasonable

But, I couldn't figure out what drew you so fast

Then suddenly, there was another, then another and another

So I started a thread to invite other members over to "sniff" you out ourselves

So far, we can talk

But must admit the link to the OHIO network concerns us

anti-Obama right off and then NWO-Bilderburg-CT type stuff

We've had trouble here from folks spouting that stuff often.

So I dropped a link to our CT forum

Figured if you came straight back saying "No No That's not us"

Then we could talk

If you got lost....well, it's up to the mods

[Joel the K]

98. Obama

I am not anti-Obama. I am anti New World Order. And Obama has packed his cabinet with New World Order insiders. I like the man. He has a beautiful family, he's handsome, smart, eloquent and has many admirable qualities. But he is doing what they all do when they get to the inside: he's surrendering American sovereignty over to those who would see a one-world government. And you know what? If he did not play ball with the power-elite, and go along with their agenda, they would not have allowed him to become president. It's not personal. I like Barak Obama. What I don't like is what we have allowed the office, the position, of president to become. If he would renounce the New World Order he would be the greatest president in American history.

[greyl]

57. Looks like viral marketing of gas masks.

www.familygasmask.com/index2.php

[Tsiyu]

61. Yeah, to blog with them

You gotta advertise their survival stuff, but then DU does adverts so there ya go.

Someone needs to tell them they can get that "breaking news about FEMA camps" from posts made here a long while ago, though.

They could probably learn more from us than the other way around.

As a back-to-the-lander type myself, honestly most of the stuff on their site seemed basic. Nothing earth-shattering, just an organized preparation network is all.

[greyl]

62. Agreed.

Plus, I don't see anything about prevention.
Matter of fact, looks like some kind of apocalypse is a foregone conclusion to most of them in the blog ring. One of their links goes to BIG JOHN LIPSCOMB who is pushing a worldwide conspiracy that is outside of any of our control. It's a different breed of fear-mongering, I fear. ;)

[Joel the K]

99. you are wrong

You don't know anything about Big John Lipscomb. He's not "pushing" anything. You guys just go into people's sites and come back here to criticize and make trouble and division? What do YOU do? What are you doing to help others? Come on lets hear it since you are the smart one. Teach us your great wisdom master yoda.

[Tom From Idaho]

83. .

[Tom From Idaho]

84. That's called Target Marketing

Selling dog shampoo wouldn't work so well on a survival and preppin' site. Got to pay the bills, I can't devote my time and energy to do this for free. Hope you don't have a problem with it, because that would make you a hippocrate, because you see, you support DU. Check it out, I see Turbo tax software plastered all over the place. Looks like DU is viral marketing Preps for tax time!

[ConcernedCanuk]

64. I didn't know I was a prepper!

.
.
.

I have been a camping enthusiast for decades

Had a camper on my 4x4 for almost 20 years

Got into a wee bit of solar

Then got an inverter

Then extra batteries

Generator

Propane heater

Old cook stove(range)

Made a greenhouse out of thermal pane windows and doors from the local landfill

Grew tomato plants, no - TREES - 10 feet tall - over 500 tomatoes per plant - thread for that is in the Gardening Group for any doubters

Also grew Zucchini, cucumbers, corn, watermelon, pumpkin and peas - probably forgot something in that list -

but had so much I was giving it to friends and the local food bank right up to November.

Got 20 dozen tomatoes still in my freezer - great to add to soups and crockpot meals

Is there an icon/avatar for "Preppers"?

If not, maybe I'll invent one

Prepper

hmmm

:freak:

[Wiley50]

65. Great! You can be our Dr Prepper

"Be a Prepper Drink Dr Prepper"

Yeah, I've got panels, inverter, 6 volts wired into big 12 volt bank, generator

on this sailboat I live on.

Had pretty good luck with Tomatoes too but not patience and obcessive enough

to stay on pruning and stakeing enough to get 10 ft ones

And in Canada? WOW!

[hootinholler]

66. Funny, I was thinking Sgt Prepper

:shrug:

-Hoot

[Tom From Idaho]

87. Then I guess you'd be a Canadian Prepper

stop in and visit my friends at http://canadianpreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/ I started the site for them and then turned it over to them to operate on their own, they do their own thing now, we just exchange links. I only help when they need it. Maybe you could contribute to their blog

[cherish44]

67. I suppose it's never a bad idea to be prepared...

but some survivalists are just as whacky as the rapture people. My survivalist neighbor went into a moderate depression when the Y2K thing didn't pan out. Y2K is gonna be major! You better be ready! Interesting aside: At Rapture Ready on the "cults" board (Catholicism is a cult to them) they like to dismiss Catholic Marian visions as "silly" and "crazy" yet they're certain they're going to be whisked away to live in the clouds with Jesus any second now.

[Tom From Idaho]

69. An introduction is in order..By American Prepper

With this post, I am speaking for myself only and not for other preppers.

I apologize to everyone for not being the first "Prepper" to post here. I also apologize if any of my friends got out of hand, they are each individuals with their own minds, opinions, ideas and political beliefs. I encourage them all to speak their minds. I would have been the first to post, but unfortunately had to work overnight.

To Introduce myself; my name is Tom. I live in Northern Idaho. I go by the screen name American Prepper (No Egotism intended, simply wasn't creative enough to think of anything else)

I am just an average Truck Driver, I know truckers have gotten a bad rap for a lot of people, That's okay, there are a lot of slob, tailgating, P*ss bottle throwing, jerks on the road that have given us a bad name. We are no longer the Knights of the Road as we once were. If you're one of those that don't like truckers, please think about us for a moment next time you buy groceries, or brush your teeth, or buy a new TV. Everything man-made comes on a truck.

Also, most of you are wondering how we found this thread so fast. I use Google analytics to track traffic to our site. As I am one who is very much against the patriot act, wire tapping etc... I do not follow peoples IP addresses, I believe in privacy. I do, however, like to see what websites our traffic is coming from, and what people are saying about us. I also don't like to lurk and spy, so I wanted to get involved in your discussion as soon as possible.

It upsets me that a few in this discussion were quick to pass judgment without bothering to send myself or any of my friends an e-mail to ask us what we are all about. That's what many people call prejudice. We are all Americans here.

I am a Prepper. I think Shy and Pioneer Living gave the best descriptions of what a prepper is, so I don't need to get into that

I am not a racist (not saying anyone called me that either) I teach student drivers how to drive a truck over the road. We are normally gone 3-5 weeks at a time living together in a box the size of a small bathroom. The Company I work for is an Equal opportunity employer. Many of my best co-drivers were minorities. So, as you can see, my profession is not the place for someone with racial tendencies. Having said this, I make it very clear to those that join our Prepper group, that we are not a place for people who are racist or promote hate speech, government overthrow etc. It's been my intention all along to brand Prepper as a good term. Terms like "Militia", "Minutemen" and "survivalist" were once patriotic terms and have gotten a bad rap from a few "bad apples" and an over-biased media. With everything I have in me, I'm not going to let that happen to "Preppers" But at the same time, people have a right to speak their mind.

"I am a patriot", I will say it loud and clear and as publicly as possible. If Gays can feel free to come "out of the closet". Why should I have to feel like I should stay in the closet? I searched hard over the internet to find the most beautiful patriotic image I could, and decided that the Bald eagle image was the best. What could be wrong with that? I have never accused anyone of not being patriotic. However, I find it difficult that anyone who believes in Socialism, Communism, fascism, Globalism, or Nazism (Nationalsozialismus or National "Socialism" which is what our country is rapidly becoming with bank buy outs, etc..) could possibly be an American patriot (maybe a patriot to "those" causes) all of those 'isms ultimately lead to Totalarianism and ultimately death and oppression of the innocent. Take Union of Soviet "Socialist" Republics as another example. Please take the time to watch this video http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

I hope you will allow me to continue to be a contributor to your forum, because I too am a "Lib" Different Kind of "Lib" though. "Lib" as in Libertarian, not Liberal. I agree with many of the "progressive" ideas you believe in, but am strongly against others. So I hope you can find it interesting to have someone who will stand behind you on some issues and try to throw you a curve ball on others. I'm not much of a debater, but can do my best. I have a lot of projects going in addition to my work. So with your permission, I'd like to stop in from time to time. I wont get into all my political beliefs in this posting as I've already taken up too much time as is. But I will say this. I used to be a Republican, never will again nor ever will be a Democrat. I voted for Bush twice. One of the worst presidents ever, but I certainly don't believe Kerry or Gore would have been better. I'm strongly against Obama, but don't think Mcain would have been better either. I don't think people who voted for Obama are stupid. My wife voted for Obama. My wife is not stupid. I hope you can forgive me for having voted for Bush twice, as I will forgive you for voting for Obama...lol

If you wish to tear me apart for all of that, fine, I'll turn the other cheek. But if we can get along, then I extend my hand for a virtual handshake and would like to invite you for a visit to Our Prepper Network. Everyone is different, each with their own opinions. Feel free to comment and debate with them. Some just want to prep for disasters of any type, and sure some are a little "far out". But that's okay. That makes it interesting. If you think my friend, Joel, is a little crazy, challenge him. Ask him to validate his facts. Do a little research on what he says. Trilateral commission is real, here is their website http://www.trilateral.org/about.htm No secret handshake or dark rooms, just Like the Bush Cronyism, you got good old fashioned cronyism for Globalism here. (Their version of Networking) Well, most of us preppers have our "Prepper Network" in our best attempt to counter their ideology.

By the way. We are having a Tea Party and you are welcome to join us. Yes, it's a little nutty and nutty can be fun sometimes. Maybe you are in favor of Obama funding abortions in foreign countries, more bailouts for people who don't deserve it etc... That's fine, then send your tea bag to the senator or congressman you dislike the most, maybe it's a Republican, in protest of other wasteful spending, like our ridiculous war in Iraq or the Bridge to no-where. There's got to be something wasteful you're upset about. So Join us and have fun.

Thank you
Tom

[Joel the K]

74. well said Tom

Well said Tom. Very diplomatic.

[SmileyRose]

77. I may be a fellow whackjob.

Between what is in my pantry and what is under all the beds in this house I can feed and keep clean the three adults in my home for about a year. The only exception is water, I do not store a years worth of water. I garden and dehydrate or can about 80% of what I grow for future months. I have gardening and "putting up for a rainy day" in my blood.

Now I have probably a years worth of toilet paper, toothpaste, underarm deodorant, shampoo and dish soap. When the local Eckerd closed down they had things marked so low that I bought everything I could afford to buy. We have a daybed in the living room that doubles as our couch and all that toilet paper is up under there. If times are tough and we can't buy more then we'll go back to "everyone has a different colored rag" - which I'll admit to living with in my lifetime.


Our modern lifestyle is just not possible to maintain in a true depression. IMHO we NEED to stop living a throw away society, cut down on consumption etc. I realize this evolved mostly because nearly everyone works instead of stay at home wives and moms (or dads). I don't want to move things so far that the opportunities for women are lost, but we do have to figure out a better balance IMHO.

[texastoast]

79. I'm very glad

I heard all those tips from my Depression parents about how not to waste and methods of living lean. They knew the true meaning of being "conservative," and it has nothing to do with the Republican party.

[B o d i]

80. Reduce, re-use, and recycle?

My grandfather had a really hard time throwing out aluminum foil, no matter what was stuck to it. I understand him, and you, I think. He was hardcore dem.

[texastoast]

81. Yes

and add to that repair and restore (our poor forests). And let's say replace urban sprawl with Smart Growth.

[Tom From Idaho]

82. I agree about repairing and restoring forests

For those who call themselves "Eco-Friendly" who have never lived in the forest; I do live in the forest, I love the forest, spent most of my time living in forests. We burn firewood for heat. "Ooooohhh. Firewood, you evil polluter!" you may say. First of all, firewood is the most clean, efficient, cost effective, recyclable, and renewable source of energy you can use to heat your home. New wood stoves are very safe and efficient, several times more than "open burning". Solar panels require energy and chemicals to make. Plus you spend a lot of wasted time, money, energy and resources working to afford to buy them. Same with wind, Not to mention the battery acid. Pulling off the grid you are draining power (possibly from a Nuke Plant or Coal fired power plant) that could otherwise be used elsewhere. Not to mention the wasted time, energy, and money you will spend trying to earn the money to pay the power bill. Add that to the jacked up rates everyone else will pay.

Also, burning firewood removes dead fuel from the forests, Firewood cutters normally don't, nor are allowed to cut living trees. (Dead habitat trees are normally marked by USFS). Removing dead fuel from the forest, reduces the chances of forest fire. Dead trees spread disease and beetles causing more dead trees. If the tree would otherwise be burned in a forest fire, might as well do your part to save the forest and burn the wood in your fireplace.

Don't worry about the carbon particulates in smoke (Unless you live in LA or any major city, I am not advocating burning firewood in cities or any heavily populated area, that would just be stupid). Carbon particulates eventually settle to the ground and make good natural fertilizer for new plants and trees. Ever ask why farmers burn their fields? Don't worry about carbon dioxide either, as much as the Globalist elites want to lie to you about global warming, Plants love carbon dioxide, they thrive on it. Ever been inside a greenhouse? You have to circulate the air with fans or the trees will choke to death on their own oxygen. "Going Green" is a misnomer when talking about reducing your carbon footprint. I'm all for reducing poisons, mercury, pesticides, herbicides, you name it. But Carbon, and carbon dioxide is Plant food, when plants get their food, they get greener. I'm not saying that Carbon Dioxide is not a greenhouse gas, because it is. What you're not told though, is that plants do a very good job offsetting that buy turning the Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen which we breathe and carbon which ultimately goes back into the ground. If it weren't for plants and trees, It would be thousands of degrees on Earth like on Venus. Not by the doing of mankind, but by the millions of volcanoes that have erupted over past billions of years. Want to reduce global warming? Plant more trees, we do. We plant at least 2 on our property for every 1 we cut.

So, chop away, burn that wood and help clean up the forest!

[texastoast]

85. Agreed, must have trees

And using fallen trees for firewood only makes sense, both for energy use and fire prevention in the forest (and gathering wood is a good workout! so it helps to reduce healthcare coasts--win win all around in a non-urban environment). My family has 2-1/2 acres, about half of it in native forest. Those few trees supply about half our heating. I must admit that I have a fireplace (it is an old house), but am planning to get a converter in there soon. I have a friend who has the state-of-the-art, center-of-the-room stove and it is amazing how much heat that thing can throw off with one stick of wood.

As long as we have few enough people, enough forests, and good sense, we can survive all of this.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Tom From Idaho]

86. Where you from in Texas?

Thanks for the welcome texastoast! Nice to meet ya. I used to live in Denison, North of Dallas. Live in Idaho now, but my heart is still in Texas. You should check out my friends at http://texaspreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/ (The Original Prepper Network) A little less political and more preparedness oriented than some of the others.

[texastoast]

88. I'm close to Houston

But from the Permian Basin originally. I can't leave because I have to have Mexican food at least three times a week.;)

[Tom From Idaho]

90. I love Mexican Food

How's the clean up going down there? Things getting back to normal? Last time I was down was just after Ike when I did Hurricane relief. We brought in Bottled water and MRE's (Got to keep a case too, Genuine Military MRE's, pretty cool.) If everyone would prep, then nanny government wouldn't have to come in to rescue. We could bypass all the relief and jump right into rebuilding. Of course, I wouldn't have gotten my big fat $4,000 check either for doing that load, But then again, I really needed it. Carried me through the month to pay bills.

[Wiley50]

91. Hey Tom

I'm Wiley. I was the guy who was in this thread when the preppers started coming out of the woodwork (see my post above to pioneer living)

If you don't mind my asking: How did you get a paid gig doing relief? The only folks from here who went down were purely volunteers.
I mean here as in both DU and also TN (we're known for being Vols)

By the way, you know you are free to roam around and check out the place. Folks tend to ignore a thread that's a couple of days old (we've got over 100,000 registered members and threads sink pretty fast)

You know we have well over a hundred different forums: besides the big forums (GD, LBN, GD:P, editorials, ect.

from the discuss page go into State Forums (one for every state and territory), The Topic forums (on a bunch of different issues)

and The Groups ( on most every hobby and interest there is. )

A couple of months ago there were a bunch of folks here that wanted to start sort of a prep forum but I don't know what happened with that. It still could be done.

I should tell you that what we see as RW catch phrases like "nanny government" will get you challenged pretty fast

For instance: I was a Carpet and Floorcovering installer for 30 years in TN that is a "Right To Work (for nothing) state"

If I had been in a union state I would have had good wages, good healthcare and wouldn't be in the shape I'm in

I screwed up my spine real good from humping rolls of carpet on my shoulder 13-15 hrs a day for a couple of bucks a square yard

Made barely enough to keep a rented roof over my head and eat after I paid all of my work expenses myself (truck, gas, tools, supplies, helper). No pension or 401 k , no way to save anything.

Now I have to take serious pain meds and spend my life sitting on my ass to keep the weight off my spine. Only get out when the van comes to take me to a doctor. It sucks.

All in the world I have to support me is my SSI ($634/mo) and medicaid so I can see my doctors and buy some (not all) of my prescriptions. I don't get food stamps but I should.

My Libertarian Republican relatives are very wealthy and could easily help me some, but don't

They have that "I've got mine, screw you" philosophy that is so popular with RW Libertarian Republican Rush Limbaugh fans.

So don't tell me about no "Nanny State". That "Nanny State" is all the fuck I've got.(and they don't make it easy)

But they love to give billions to the rich and their corporations at any excuse or none.

That's why I'm a Democrat. At least they give a damn about people like me.

[Tom From Idaho]

103. "Nanny Governnment" Cut me the $4,000 Check...

to do the Hurricane relief. I drive a truck for a living. I would have loved to volunteer, but I was broke and live 2,000 miles a way. Actually, it was far more than $4,000 before a few brokers, trucking companies and middle men, who didn't even do the work, took their cut (see they were getting very rich off of it, taking advantage of the situation and of thousands of drivers they sent down there). Oh, i did enjoy the $4,000 (netted $3,000) because it carried my whole month financially because of this crappy economy, caused both by Republicans & Democrats (you won't ever see a Republican sympathizer with me, but I sure as hell won't carry water for the Democrats either. But even as much as I needed the money to catch up on credit card bills, mortgage payments, Dr bills etc... It was just plain wrong for "nanny" government to pay that kind of money for a 700 mile load. That's wasteful spending of yours and my tax dollars. Should have been more like $1,500. Yes, I guess I'm a hypocrite for taking the money, but most would be as well when having that kind of money offered to them. Which is why "nanny" government needs to back off with the wasteful spending of social programs and welfare to people who don't "really" need it. It's a major drain on our financial system to have 70 year old's who can work just fine collecting Social Security (I know this because I train some to drive truck), To dump money year after year after year into failing Urban schools that just will not change (I can show you plenty of schools with tighter budgets per capita operating out of mobile buildings that do far better). I've trained scum bag dead beat dads, to become truck drivers, who have bragged to me about "bringing in the bread" while shacked up and mooching off their pregnant girlfriends H.U.D. homes, welfare and food stamps, when I know for a fact that they are earning enough money to pay all the bills themselves. Try spending a little time living amongst welfare recipients (as I have most of my life). Most of them will tell you the ends and outs of how to cheat the system, and a large number of those use welfare to finance their drug habits. Now, go ahead and spout off all the wrong the Republicans have been doing, you'd just be preaching to the choir with me, because I'm right there with ya brother. Most Republican leaders are very corrupt...as are the Democrat leaders. Let's all try something a little different.....Scrap the Republican Ideals of offering breaks to the rich and to the large corporations, Go to a flat sales tax to replace the abusive income tax, so everyone pays their fare share, all the way from the welfare mooches (not saying they all mooch) to the rich guy who just bought a million dollar yacht, Replace the huge $10,000 plus fines that are imposed upon business by EPA, OSHA etc.. with a type of percentage-of-net revenue fines, so that small business don't get put out of business, and so that big business get hurt enough to stop the wrongs that they do. I could spend my time on a Libertarian board, but over there it gets boring preaching to the choir, here it's a little more interesting, so if You don't mind, I'd like to stick around awhile. And yes, as I have time, I will check out some of the other threads too. Oh, and by the way, if "nanny" government would stay out of peoples way, and stress more self-reliance, if people would prep themselves, then maybe FEMA wouldn't have been spending over $4,000 per truck to deliver supplies that people should have already stored in their homes. (cities then would have been able to handle the relief efforts on their own, to help those who truly do need it) take care and c-ya around. tom

[Tom From Idaho]

106. I understand the need for Social Security....

Don't get me wrong when I bash Social Security. See, like your need for it, my step-father (who is like a father to me) had a stroke while driving truck, caused by the stresses of the job. But no health insurance for him, no unemployment and certainly no workers comp. All he had was social security, luckily now though, he was able to get VA as he used to be in the Military. Still not enough to support him and my mom, so I pay their mortgage for them. Oh, by the way. If there are those of you in DU that still want to start a Prepping thread, we'd love to help out. But it's got to be Dem and a long time DU member to start it and invite us, I don't want to look like we are infiltrating your forum...lol

[Joel the K]

100. wow

I admire you SmileyRose. You are so right about our throw away lifestyle. They call us whack-jobs because they are prejudiced. They pre-judge an entire group of people instead of treating each one as an individual with unique tastes, intrests, likes, dislikes, hobbies, fears, loves, etc..., its the same old story with prejudice, we all do it to some degree. We all have faults. We all struggle. If we could just try to be civil, with a little bit of manners and helping hands, it could be so much better.

[sendero]

96. Whether anyone "hopes" for the system to crash..

... or not has zero bearing on whether or not it will.

I didn't visit the page but I think anyone who thinks it's unnecessary to make ANY preparations for what is coming is, well, I'll just say foolhardy.

[Joel the K]

101. yes

Logic! Yes! There IS logic to be found in the Democratic Underground. Thank you Sendero. I was starting to think that logic and reason and systematic discourse were non-existant here. Everyone should study logic in their youth, it makes debate and discussion lively and productive.

[mmpaints]

104. opinion from just one source?

How many individual prepper network blogs have you all read to form your conclusions? It seems to me you simply chose one or 2 to form your attack to discredit it. If you don't like what someone has written on a blog, quit reading it.

Personally, I don't mind at all if each one of you chooses to be a recipient of aid in a FEMA camp. Why would you use your own insecurities to jump on people in this country that don't like or support that idea? Some of us don't give a rats behind about politics or religion. What we do care about is freedom.

Doubt us if you like, call us names and ridicule our efforts. Your actions will not deter me from my path in any way. I will continue to write about being self sustained and freedom. I will continue to try to show others the way to take care of themselves and feed themselves. I will keep on posting about how to build fires for heat and how to cook on them. I will continue to post about baking your own bread and growing the wheat yourself and grinding it into flour. If you choose not to learn these simple skills our Grandparents knew blindfolded, good for you. In turn, don't think you will get a warm bed and a hot meal from those of us that took the time to learn these skills and are prepared during the next natural or man made disaster that hits our communities.

If you choose to, you may email me or instant message me at any time via my profile at blogger. You can find it from here. http://illinoispreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/

[LanternWaste]

110. Seems like a...

Seems like a secularized version of the Rapture Ready boards...

[scentednights2002]

111. Stopping by

Just thought I'd stop by and offer my thoughts. Yes, I'm one of the preppers. You can see my blog here if you'd like:

http://vermontpreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/

I prep by having a year's worth of food, extra seeds to plant, an alternate heating source, an alternate water source, solor heating options, extra medicine, etc.

Why do I prep? I prep for a number of reasons - economic insecurities, severe weather, power loss, disease, etc.

Let's say another severe ice storm hits the northeast. I can't leave my house safely for a week. Do I have enough food and water to last a week? I have no electricity. How do I function? How do I light my house, cook my meals, heat the house? One of the kids gets sick. Do I have enough medicine if I can't make it to the store? How do I hear updates about what's going on? Do I have enough batteries for my radio? A wind up radio?

Maybe I loose my job? Again, where does the food come from when I have no money? What happens if the power gets shut off? Or I can't afford another delivery of propane for the stove to cook on?

Regardless of your political persuasions, prepping is an important part of life. It would be great if we could set aside our differences and share information about preparing. I'm sure we could all learn something.