Pittsburgh Cop Killer Stockpiled Guns through Internet...

[Junkdrawer]

From a CNN Story...
...

Margaret Poplawski told police her son had enlisted in the Marine Corps a few years ago, but was discharged for assaulting his drill sergeant in basic training, according to the complaint. Since his discharge, she told police, he had been "stockpiling guns and ammunition, buying and selling the weapons online, because he believed that as a result of the economic collapse, the police were no longer able to protect society. Mrs. Poplawski reported that her son only liked police when they were not curtailing his constitutional rights, which he was determined to protect," the complaint said.

...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/05/pittsburgh.officers.shot.dog

Now, if that was a dishonorable discharge, he couldn't buy a gun legally. But Internet sales represent a new Gun Show type loophole...

...

The bill would close the so-called "gun show/Internet loophole." It would prohibit private sales of pistols or assault weapons unless the buyer or seller was a federally licensed dealer, or used a licensed dealer to transfer the weapon. That includes sales at garage and estate sales and over the Internet, which are currently exempt from background checks.

...

http://www.startribune.com/39844612.html

[MagickMuffin]

1. But didn't I read here yesterday that he was mentally ill

Sounds to me as though he had attitude illness. Bad behavior is NOT condoned my the military.


I haven't heard the outcome, did he off himself or is in jail.

[Junkdrawer]

2. In the hospital with 24x7 guards... n/t

[sufrommich]

3. I had no idea you could buy guns over the internet or at

garage sales.Why on Earth would these venues be exempted from the law?

[doctor jazz]

6. I'm getting a headache trying to imagine how law enforcement could monitor everything sold at garage

sales.

Seems like a pretty monumental task.

[MrPerson]

23. Because no one wants to touch this issue in Congress.

Its now a third rail.

[benEzra]

29. You can, BUT they have to be shipped to a Federally licensed dealer

who handles the Federal background check and tracing paperwork, and handles the transfer to you; they are NOT exempt from the law. The process is the same as buying any other gun from a licensed gun dealer.

That's assuming, of course, that he bought his guns legally. He was reportedly affiliated with some shadowy white supremacist organizations, so it is possible that his guns were black-market.

[RamboLiberal]

4. Unless he was doing illegal transactions via the net

the guns have to be shipped to an FFL and the FFL has to do a background check before giving the buyer the gun. Any seller on the net who ships direct to a buyer without an FFL is breaking the law.

Poplawski's friend claimed today on the radio that this was how Poplawski was doing his transactions - legally through an FFL. He claimed Poplawski bought through Gunbroker.com. He also claimed Poplawski had nothing on his record preventing him from passing the background check. And that Poplawski had a carry permit.

Be interesting to see if this is all true. But this friend Perkovic also claimed that he wasn't a racist(Perkovic) and actually threatened libel lawsuits against anyone who claims that though we have google caches of his page with his recommendation of "The Turner Diaries".

[aikoaiko]

5. loophole?

Well, interstate private gun sales are already tightly controlled.

But an instate internet transaction is the same thing as a newpaper ad or gunshow. States are free to require NICS background checks with a FFL for private sales if they wish. Some states do, but most dont.

[Statistical]

7. Yes you can buy guns online HOWEVER

firearms must be shipped to an FFL (gun dealer). Shipping firearm interstate to ANYONE other than an FFL is already a federal crime.

Not all discharges from military are a felon.
You can have a bad-conduct discharge or a "failure to adapt" discharge. Both of which are common in boot camp/basic training. Neither is a felony conviction.

A failure to adapt is the military way of saying you aren't cut of for military life, no hard feelings go have a good life but it will be a civilian life.

So if he had a non-felony discharge then HE COULD LEGALLY BUY FIREARMS ONLINE just as he would at a gun shop.

1) Someone sells him the firearm
2) He pays
3) Someone ships the firearm to an FFL of his choice.
4) The FFL does background check, records the fiream on BATFE form.
4) He picks up the firearm in person w/ ID.

It is no different than him going into a gun shop and buying a firearm except there are some good deals online and more selection.

[Junkdrawer]

8. True for licensed sellers, but NOT unlicensed sellers...

...

Unlicensed sellers are people who may sell a small or large amount of guns but do not (or are not supposed to) earn their livelihood from firearm sales. These sellers do not have to conduct criminal background checks on gun sales. Unlicensed sellers may sell guns at gun shows, out of their homes, or even over the Internet.

...

http://www.csgv.org/site/c.pmL5JnO7KzE/b.3509291/k.3349/Gun_Show_Loophole_Frequently_Asked_Questions.htm

[RamboLiberal]

9. But even an unlicensed seller has to send the gun to an FFL

who has to do the background check if gun is sold interstate. So that would include internet sellers. His friend(not that I believe he is completely telling the truth) said Poslawski went through an FFL to get guns he bought on the internet.

[Junkdrawer]

10. What if he bought over the Internet in state?

:shrug:

[RamboLiberal]

11. Here's the scoop

You can sell person-to-person in PA a long gun. I'm not sure how that covers the internet. I suppose you could meet the person and complete the transaction. I'm a gun-owner and a PA resident but I think its time to close that one. This might be the incident to do it if he wasn't legal to own firearms. In any case I'm going to write my legislators and governor and suggest this change this gun-owner would support.

[Junkdrawer]

12. Looks like handguns only in PA...

Which states have closed the gun show loophole?

Only six states (California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows, including sales by unlicensed dealers. Three more states (Connecticut, Maryland and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Eight other states (Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, Nebraska and North Carolina) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the gun show loophole.


http://www.csgv.org/site/c.pmL5JnO7KzE/b.3509291/k.3349/Gun_Show_Loophole_Frequently_Asked_Questions.htm

[RamboLiberal]

13. You're right - I was correcting my post as you posted

Oh and I just sent an email to my PA governor Rendell & my 2 reps that I would like to see this loophole closed.

[Statistical]

16. Federal law covers the interstate transfer of firearms.

If you mail a firearm to anyone who is not an FFL for any reason you are looking at 5 years+.

Inside a state it is up to the laws of that state.

That being said virtually all gun exchange websites like www.gunbroker.com require an FFL for ALL transactions in-state and interstate. Period. It simplifies the process and the FFL on receiving end should know all applicable laws of the state.

[cherish44]

14. People are always going to find a way to get guns. Legal schmegal

Remember how well Prohibition worked?

[underpants]

15. Weren't mail order (now internet) guns banned after the JFK assassination?

I thought they were... apparently not

[Statistical]

17. Gun gets shipped to an FFL

FFL does background check and hands over firearm.

No much different than buying gun in person.

Buying from gunshop
1) Go to gun shop
2) Find gun you like
3) Pay owner
4) Owner/FFL does background check
5) FFL hands over firearm and records in BATFE book.

Buying online
1) go to website
2) find gun you like
3) pay seller
3a) seller ships to FFL (samer person as in gunsop example above)
4) FFL does background check
5) FFL hands over firearm and records in BATFE book.

[Junkdrawer]

19. -OR-

Buying online in 33 states...

1) go to website with classified gun listings
2) find gun you like sold by someone in state
3) pay private seller
4) seller ships to you

[underpants]

20. Are the background checks done as regularly as the "consumer use tax" is paid?

consumer use tax is the tax that you are supposed to report and pay on anything you buy on the internet

I had a partner at an accounting firm remark on a client who filed out the CUT form with his return info "SOMEONE ACTUALLY PAYS THAT!?!?!?" this was 10 years ago but I think the same still applies.

[Statistical]

21. Is they aren't the FFL is in trouble.

Remember the firearm is shipped to FFL. The seller keeps copy of shipping information. If the police come looking for the firearm the seller is going to point to the FFL. The FFL had better have a NCIS check sheet, BATFE form, and his bound book in order.

I have never ever ever had or seen an FFL not doing the BG check.

Why would they risk their license, their job, their families financial future, even their freedom?

They are required to keep logs for BATFE. Simply having a discrepency in their log is enough for them to loose their FFL.

Once got the probability of getting it back is essentially 0%.

Gunshop I go to the guy knows me my name, I have a CCW, and every single time he does an instant background check. Everytime.

Likely the shooter simply was LEGALLY ALLOWED TO PURCHASE FIREARM. He completed BATFE form, background check came back clean and he purchased a firearm just like 20million people do every year.

[underpants]

22. Not to argue but wasn't that what happened with the DC sniper?

Didn't he buy the rifle in Washington state and there was no check done?

Sorry to ask a question that you have to do the looking up for but I seem to remember that.

I am not arguing. The world of guns and laws is only slightly familiar to me-it seems all rather complicated but I am sure that is just by happenstance.

[Statistical]

24. No you are correct.

It does happen.

I think in the DC sniper case they never proved the sniper bought the weapon from the dealer in question.

The dealer could not account for some weapons including the weapon used in DC Sniper case.

It is possible he sold the weapon legally to someone else and paperwork was lost.
That person sold it to DC sniper.

Or maybe that FFL was an SOB he sold gun illegally.

As the DC sniper case shows the burden of proof for the govt is very low. Everything needs to be perfect in the books or the FFL is in trouble.

[underpants]

25. Okay

there are always people who do stuff on the side

[Statistical]

26. If the FFL is this case is one of them he will be caught quickly

They have the suspect in custody. Already the word is he bought it through gunbroker. Even w/o the suspects help it shouldn't be difficult to find the original seller and thus the FFL.

However usualy the post likely scenario is the sctual scenario
1) Shooter didn't have any felony convictions (not all military discharges are felonies)
2) Weapon was shipped to FFL
3) FFL completed NCIS check = clean.
4) Shooter acquired weapon.

Then again I am sure there will be follow on stories in coming weeks so if it is something more unusual then we should hear about it.

[slackmaster]

33. All dishonorable discharges disqualify a person from possessing a firearm

See United States Code § 922, paragraph (d), subparagraph (6).

It doesn't distinguish among dishonorable discharges. There are also other species of discharges that are neither honorable nor dishonorable. So if the perp's was dishonorable, both he and anyone who provided him with a firearm are in deep yogurt without a spoon.

[RamboLiberal]

18. No just direct sale through the mail

Shipping to an FFL is ok. Amazing to think Oswald ordered firearms through a catalog & the mail no questions asked.

[G_j]

35. I guess those were the good old days..

:sarcasm:

[slackmaster]

31. DIRECT interstate mail-order sales are prohibited by the Gun Control Act of 1968

Generally, if you buy a firearm from someone in another state it has to be sent to a federally licensed gun dealer in your state.

[qanda]

27. According to Pittsburgh news sources, the mother was asked if her son had any weapons in the house

And the mother told the dispatchers that there were none. She knew her son had weapons in that house and didn't warn the officers that they were entering a war zone. She bears some responsibility.

[Junkdrawer]

28. Accessory to murder...

With a multiple cop killing, bet your ass she will be charged....

[slackmaster]

30. The story is a bit misleading

The reason people in some states can buy firearms without background checks has nothing to do with where the transfer occurs. It's because intrastate, private sales of used firearms are not regulated by the federal government, and many states do not regulate them either. Private sellers are prohibited by law from using the federal background check system (NICS) to verify that a prospective buyer is not prohibited from buying firearms, as James Paprowski is.

Transfers of firearms at garage sales, estate sales, and over the Internet are subject to exactly the same laws as they would be if conducted anywhere else.

[Mopar151]

32. Last I knew

It wasn't hard to get an FFL - I received an app bound into a catalog with the order form. (Thought I was getting a camping gear catalog...)

[slackmaster]

34. It's not hard to get a collector's FFL

I have one. The background check for a dealer's license is the same, but you have to actually set up a business and get whatever state and local licenses, permits, etc. apply.

The collector's license allows holders to acquire and dispose of curios and relics through interstate commerce.