Huh?!

[Kali]

- Bay Area Native Americans Strike Back Against "Burning Men" and the
Commodification of Native Cultures: There was supposed to be a "private"
Burner party last Saturday night at the Bordello in Oakland, complete with
three hundred guests, twenty DJs spinning thumping techno and bass, dancers,
a fashion show, micro-massages, raw food, an absinthe bar, and coconuts.
Instead, the event ended in tears. More than fifty Bay Area Native American
rights activists converged on the historic East Oakland property at 9:30 p.m.
to ensure the shutdown of popular Burning Man group Visionary Village's "Go
Native!" party. The fired-up Hopis, Kiowas and other tribal members spent
more than four hours lecturing the handful of white, college-class Burners
about cultural sensitivity until some of them simply broke down crying.
http://www.cdarc.org/page/h2o0 - East Bay Express


:popcorn:

[MADem]

1. Uncivil assholes on both sides of this shitflinging festival, apparently

Stupid, clueless, obtuse punks on one side, overwrought, hyper-excitable and pathological primadonnas on the other. Never a good mix. They deserve each other.

The emotional crescendo capped a month-long saga that started with a tone-deaf dance party flyer, led to an Internet flame war and a public excoriation of Visionary Village's young, neo-hippy leaders before real tribal elders in the East Bay demanded a cancellation of the event.

The strange saga all began in early February when Visionary Village — a loose group of artists and other young people who enjoy the annual Burning Man arts festival in Nevada — began routine publicity for a Burning Man-style "private event" at the Bordello on E. 12 Street in Oakland. The online flyer circulated on Tribe.net read: "GO NATIVE" in an Old West font set against a desert sun, and the dance party was advertised as a "fundraiser for the Native American Church." Native-rights activists got wind of it and publicized additional text from the VisionaryVillage.org web site indicating four "elemental rooms" would be themed: "Water: Island Natives (Maori); Air: Cliff Natives (Anasazi); Earth: Jungle Natives (Shipibo); Fire: Desert Natives (Pueblo)." Ravers were offered a discount off the $20 door fee "if you show up in Native costume," and the money would fund "neurofeedback research demonstrating causality between medicinal use , improved brainwave patterns, and heightened mirror neuron activity in users." The 140-year-old Bordello property abuts Interstate 880 and an ancient Ohlone Indian site dated to the 12th century B.C., which was also promoted.

By Wednesday, March 25, Native Americans across the country were seething on the comment boards, especially IndyBay.org — a popular web destination for alternative news and culture. American Indian Movement West member Mark Anquoe, a 39-year-old San Francisco resident, said he'd never seen such a swift reaction. The Burners touched a third rail when they invoked the Native American Church, which has had to fight for legal status from the United States for years. The costume discount, lumping distinct tribes in with each other and the promise of debauchery next to sacred Ohlone land, only added gasoline to the inferno. Commenters demanded that the event be canceled, started a petition amongst rights groups, and some began threatening Visionary Village with arson and rape. Among the most incendiary comments received by the Village: "YOU FUCKING CRACKKKERS ARE THE REAL DEVIL AS SPOKEN IN THE SCRIPTURE! SHIT LIKE THIS DOES NOT SUPRISE ME ONE BIT, ... I PRAY TO THE MOST HIGH THAT A METEOR WILL FALL OUT THE SKY AND HIT ... E. 12th Street AND ALL YOU FUCKING DEVILS WILL BE BURNING MEN ALRIGHT!!!!"



Idiots.

[redqueen]

2. Crazy comments on message boards don't quite compare

to hugely insensitive and insulting materials approved by an organization and published for distribution.

[MADem]

3. An "organization?" A bunch of punks looking to get drunk.

Please. Don't make them more "high falutin'" then their comments, their "organizational goals," and stupid flyer merit. These little shits were simply firing up a kegger, and acting like stupid assholes. They wanted to party down, drink, eat, and meet members of the opposite sex. That was their nefarious "agenda."

Native Americans, objecting to their stupidity, behaved in an equally stupid and hyper-aggressive manner.

Like I said, there are no winners here. Both sides have more than their share of unmitigated dumbasses.

[redqueen]

6. Kind of a broad brush you're using there against all Native Americans.

Sure, a few acted stupid and hyper-aggressive... but not all. I doubt the majority of comments from NA's were so over-the-top.

Agreed that both sides have their share of unmitigated stupidity... but I still want to put more blame on the Vision Village or whatever they're called.

[MADem]

12. Kinda broad brush you're using against typical youthful drunks, too.

There are two camps of idiots in this piece. Just because some of them are Native American doesn't give them a pass.

I have to wonder if, say, these punks decided to have a kegger that made fun of, oh, Italian Catholics, and urged everyone to show up at their stupid party dressed as priests or as post WW2 Sophia Loren "idealized prostitute" roles, that they'd tolerate their party being crashed by Italian Roman Catholics, and members of the priesthood, hectoring and lecturing them. I'm guessing they'd probably get in line behind the molested kids and sue the church for disrupting their soiree.

That's not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.

People do have "the right" to behave badly, to speak intemperately and ignorantly, to be insensitive, to be crude, and even to be unkind. They have that right most particularly when they're putting on the party, it's private, and there's a cover charge. Those nitwits with their "God Hates Fags" signs get away with behaving badly all the time, in the PUBLIC square, in fact, and avail themselves of police protection any time the going gets rough.

The way the angered NA's handled that matter was totally over the top and wrong. Instead of gaining sympathy and promoting cultural awareness, they instead came off as bullies and thugs, determined to teach a bunch of morons a lesson -- of course, the lesson they taught might not have ended up being the one in their lecture.

[omega minimo]

14. Cultural insensitivity is cultural insensitivity. It's not about you and your POV

[MADem]

18. Please point me to the statute in the law that OUTLAWS "cultural insensitivity."

The young drunks were only guilty of behaving like assholes. There is no law against that.

The NA's communicated threats and trespassed at a private function. There are laws against that.

It's not about me or my POV. Who the hell said it was? Save you?

You're saying it's "OK" to break the law if someone says something you find unkind?

[omega minimo]

24. if there was one, you'd be under arrest

[MADem]

28. But there isn't, so you're looking pretty silly, now. nt

[omega minimo]

40. so macho blockhead works for ya, huh?

:shrug:

[MADem]

45. You really can't read, can you? How very sad. nt

[omega minimo]

48. aka bully works for ya huh? That's sad. Your tone comes thru LOUD AND CLEAR

[MADem]

55. Take your medication. I don't have anything more to say to you.

You are a lousy debater, and your discussion points are,well, dumb. Stupid. Unintelligent. Idiotic.

Clear enough, dear? Have a nice day.

[omega minimo]

76. and you are a master debater

:applause: :spank:

[omega minimo]

16. " Just because some of them are Native American doesn't give them a pass."

That's the kind of inflammatory comment that makes things worse and makes ignorance look ignorant, macho and antagonistic.

[MADem]

19. Are you serious, or just a bit asinine? That is not an inflammatory comment.

And if you think it is, you are a dullard.

It is a FACT that these people trespassed and communicated threats. Are you suggesting that is "OK" with you? Really?

This isn't about "macho." It is about ignorance, though--or maybe you just failed to read the full link.

And the "antagonism," if you would bother to read, came from the NA's threatening arson and rape upon the stupid college drunks.

One more time--no law against being "culturally insensitve." There is a law against communicating threats, trespassing and harrassment.

The NA's busted up a private party because they didn't like what was going on at it.

Would you like the Young Republicans or Christian Fundamentalists to do the same to your next party, because they didn't like what was going on at it?

See, freedom is a pesky thing. Sometimes, you have to put up with assholes in a free society. The students behaved badly, and the NA's behaved worse than badly. Two wrongs, and they did not make a right.

[omega minimo]

23. oh clueless one, all your pontificating just digs you in deeper. the macho defiance in the statement

and your insistence on trying to justify such a blunt force comment, just digs you in deeper.

to understand, you would have to stop preaching for a moment and think from ANOTHER POV :wow: possible someone who is already upset and reads the words

JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NATIVE AMERICAN DOESN'T GIVE EM A PASS.

reinforces the message of cultural insensitivity. THEY NEVER ASKED FOR A PASS. it doesn't have to be argued. IT'S AN ANTAGONISTIC STATEMENT.

Sorry, I'm sure all your wordy selfrighteousness is completely valid and worth reading in your own POV but who has the time?

You don't know who the Burning Man folks are and you don't give a shit about the TOPIC of cultural insensitivity.

[MADem]

30. Just because they're REPU BLICANS doesn't give them a pass.

Just because they're LITHUANIANS doesn't give them a pass.

Just because they're ROMAN CATHOLICS doesn't give them a pass.

Just because they're SENIOR CITIZENS doesn't give them a pass.

Anything "culturally insensitive" about those remarks?

Why no, there isn't. When people break the law, and threaten, harrass, and trespass, be they Native Americans or Green Party voters, they don't get a pass.

But your pandering to NA's in your posts with that sort of commentary suggests you've got a little cultural insensitivity working, yourself. You're infantalizing NA's and wanting them to be treated differently from other Americans when it comes to following the law. How very interesting.

Don't tell me what I know, dear--particularly when I know that you have trouble reading what people write before you shoot off your keyboard.

[omega minimo]

46. "the macho defiance in the statement""blunt force comment""ANTAGONISTIC STATEMENT"

That's what I said. So yes, it applies to all those.


And in the case of

"JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NATIVE AMERICAN DOESN'T GIVE EM A PASS."

Yes, reinforces the message of cultural insensitivity.


In a case like this, considering the topic IS cultural insensitivity, it might be a good idea :think: to back up and consider another POV.

[MADem]

58. Buh-bye. nt

[GeorgeGist]

109. Just because Christopher Columbus accidentally discovered ...

the New World didn't give foreigners a pass to wage holocaust against the Natives.

[MADem]

111. And your point is....?

A bunch of drunken little shits playing dress-up equates to a "holocaust" in your mind?

[redqueen]

20. Sorry but no... being so insensitive is not typical drunk behavior.

And I didn't say to give them a pass, so address that comment to whoever said it. It was not me.

And the analogy is not just imperfect, it's way off. Italian Catholics were never subject to genocide.

As for your impression of how the NA's came off... that is yours. The partygoers *sat and listened* so obviuously they found some value in what you somehow saw as nothing but acting like bullies and thugs.

[omega minimo]

26. If it's derived from Burning Man, I'm surprised folks were so clueless......

:shrug:

[MADem]

31. Oh, you're the only one who knows about Burning Man, now??

Do you think it's a big secret?

Please. Stop telling people what they know, when with every post, you demonstrate how little you do.

[omega minimo]

41. What?!!!

Good gawd, get a grip on yourself. :rofl:

[MADem]

44. I have a grip on myself. You are not very clever. nt

[omega minimo]

49. Yes. if we were clever we would discuss the topic in a way that didn't further antagonize the matter

:think:

[MADem]

59. Buh-bye. nt

[MADem]

27. Yes, it is. It is absolutely part of being a young college drunkard.

Pushing the envelope, being crude, being uncaring--it's all part of the journey to adulthood.

OK, you want genocide? (I must say I love the "arbitrary requirement" you cough up, like there are "rules" to these things). Let's scratch the Catholics, and substitute Jews. There's your genocide.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

The partygoers "sat and listened" because they were subjected to a venue version of a home invasion. The NA's were over the line.

Look, if you think I am unsympathetic to their essential cultural viewpoint, you are wrong. What I object to is their violation of the law in order to make their point.

Would you like someone crashing your private party, disrupting your planned evening, costing you a fortune because you've already rented the venue, and hectoring you with their "strongly held cultural views" and telling you how wrong you are? No?
That's my point.

[redqueen]

29. If I planned a "private" party where I made the statement "dress like a Jew"

then yeah... I'd be hardly even a bit surprised to have it crashed and protested and met with all kinds of complaints and anger and hurt feelings.

As for being a drunk at college... I have no experience whatsoever. So maybe drunk college kids *do* enjoy being racially / culturally insensitive to this degree. I doubt that's the case though. I think you're just bending over backwards to portray this issue as having both sides being equally in the wrong.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about that.


As for "a venue version of a home invasion"... that is just utterly ridiculous. Anyone could just walk out at any time.

[EFerrari]

33. The activists told the party planners they would attend

during their meeting at Intertribal Friendship House. They were not told they would not be welcome.

[redqueen]

35. Yes... that doesn't sound like crashing to me. (nt)

[EFerrari]

36. It wasn't but framing it that way obscures the core issue.

Mission accomplished.

[paulsby]

94. did they pay the entry fee

before they began lecturing and before they entered?

what do you wanna bet they didn't.

that's crashing.

[MADem]

39. Well, then, they "attended" under false pretenses. nt

[EFerrari]

56. Nope. More prevaricating. n/t

[MADem]

60. Come on, elucidate. You can do better than that, surely. nt

[EFerrari]

70. While at the meeting at Intertribal Friendship House

the two sides talked to each other very frankly. There was no "pretense" about this. The party planners knew exactly what to expect.

But, I have to respect your desire to bash NA activists for reasons best known to yourself and hopefully, best kept to yourself although, at this point, it may be too late to do that.

[MADem]

73. Ah, a "motives ascriber." I can only hope your buttwipe doesn't have the

Constitution printed on it.

Have a nice night.

[EFerrari]

77. Stay classy, MADem. n/t

[omega minimo]

81. pure unadulterated, uneLUCIDated, unmitigated

belligerence :banghead:

[EFerrari]

82. We've been here before.

It's all right.

[omega minimo]

83. No doubt

Maybe it just needs to dig a letter in the sand and sit a spell :pals:

[EFerrari]

87. It's funny because after a while you learn how to be the beach

and not the tide.

:pals:

[omega minimo]

89. I sea

Who you calling beach, dude?



(cool, i like what you said) Be the Beach

[MADem]

37. Well, how lovely that you demonstrate sensitivity. But there's no LAW that you must be sensitive.

And in my example, in order for it to work, you have to approve of the costuming. Further, if anyone did crash your "Dress Like a Jew" party, you would be within your rights to call the police and have them removed.

What those NA's did was just wrong.

Let's try another hotbutton example, so you might understand the concept--say a radical group that opposes any use of animal products breaks into a pow wow at the local high school gym, takes the floor, stops the ceremonies, and demands that the NA's forsake their feathers and skins, and replace them with cotton replicas. They hold the entire assembly "hostage" by reiterating their demands (and this is after they sent emails to the NA's threatening rape and arson) over and over again, interminably, and refuse to leave, to the point where the NA's and the audience start crying.

Is that "OK?" Hey, the audience could "just walk out at any time." Even though they paid twenty bucks to get in, and the potluck hasn't even started yet. So could the NA's who put on the pow wow. They could just walk out of the venue that they hired, paid for, set up, and spent considerable time preparing for the day.

Are you starting to appreciate the issues of law that arise here as regards trespass, at least?

Cruise through the "Myspace" pages sometime, since you doubt me. Have a look at what some of the next generation is up to.

I'm not wrong about some of these college kids--sure, there are plenty of "good" kids, but there are plenty who are riproaring shitstains, too. I'm not "bending over backwards" either. People act like jerks and don't mind memorializing their behavior nowadays--the concept of shame is apparently an outdated one. Please click on these news links to get an idea of what I mean:

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/01/30/clemson-university-students-also-throw-gangsta-party-on-mlk-day/

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3976074&page=1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_21_18/ai_81105651/

See what I mean? College kids, many of them, are DUMB. And rude. And smartass. They push the envelope. It's part of the maturing process for many children.

[redqueen]

38. As has been pointed out to you... they were not crashing.

As for the "all the stupids are doing it!" defense... sorry... wasted on me.

Sure, I may have the 'right' to be an insensitive idiot, but it's not one that I cherish and hold dear and demand to be left alone to be my idiot self. I'd *appreciate* someone telling me "hey, you're being an idiot" so that I can learn and improve myself.

It's part of the maturing process, too. If no one ever checks them on the dumb rude smartassness... they'll never grow up.

At least that's how it seems like it works from my viewpoint. Maybe yours is different. How do you expect for that maturing process to continue if people aren't called out for being rude dumb smartasses?

[MADem]

42. You couldn't have possibly checked those links.

So, in essence, you're saying that if someone has a firmly held view, their "right" to transmit their view outweighs the rights of hosts who may not want to hear the view?

OK, then in my pow wow example, the radical anti-animal group has a "right" to ruin the festivities for the tribe and the attendees. To teach them a lesson, yes?

The NA's--as I said in another post--could have gotten better publicity, and more sympathy, by not shutting down the event, but instead, calling attention to it by demonstrating outside the venue and getting the media to cover it.

In the links that you couldn't possibly have read that I provided, these students were called out. Not at the moment, but later. Without calling for rape or arson, either, I might add.

[redqueen]

47. I think you have way more of a problem with this

than most of the people involved.

Why, I don't know.

They agreed to sit and listen... and they did sit and listen (even though no guns were held to their heads).

I don't know why you're seeing this as some huge travesty... obviously many if not most of the Villagers were fine with the lectures.

So... where is your problem with all this coming from? It can't be just from that one over-the-top post on a message board...

[MADem]

54. As I said in another thread, it's the UNPOPULAR views that need defending

particularly if they aren't "illegal." That's where I am coming from with this. My "problem" is with Constitutional protections. Even for the assholes, who need them most.

Silly me. Maybe I should be more like George Bush--and be either wit-ya, or agin-ya, is that it? And if I'm agin-ya, you can send me off to Gitmo, how's that?

Gee, this is a discussion board--you're trying to do the old "casting of asparagus" because I'm discussing this topic in-depth? What's THAT about? Why are you trying to shut down discussion of my concerns about Constitutional protections for unpopular speech? To say nothing of my commentary, that you refused to believe, about how some college kids can be assholes--and I even provided you with some pretty compelling links, too, that you probably still haven't looked at.

[redqueen]

68. *Now* I get your point.

But it doesn't really fit this situation, as the NA's were given permission to attend.

And there is a difference between unpopular and indefensible, don't you think?

And no, I won't be looking at the links. This conversation has been interesting enough to kill time with... but no more than that.

Have a good evening. :hi:

p.s. Perhaps if you'd stated your concerns about this issue clearly to begin with, you wouldn't be all over the place arguing with five different people. Just my 2 cents.

[MADem]

71. I wish you would look at the links, to at least read the headlines.

They are examples of college students behaving badly. It happens.

You have a good evening, too.

[redqueen]

74. I will do it tomorrow.

:)

And yeah, I know it happens... I've seen many examples. Mostly from republicans rather than lefties though. ;)

(remember the bake sale nonsense?)

Ok now I really have to leave or I'll be late. :P

[MADem]

88. Get going--have fun!

These discussions can be addictive!


:hi:

[EFerrari]

34. There was no party crashing. You're full of it.

Did you even read the article?

[MADem]

43. You're a bit late--I "got" that. Happy? nt

[EFerrari]

52. Happy? There's nothing here to be happy about.

This isn't about you being wrong or right and I'm sorry for being so rude to you.

Apparently, hundreds of years later, this culture is still as stupid as possible. Who can celebrate that.

[MADem]

61. Yes, because defending Constitutionally protected unpopular speech is just so.. soo....

democratic.

And apparently, that bugs you. How interesting.

[EFerrari]

64. That doesn't even make sense. n/t

[MADem]

66. It wouldn't, to you. And that's not surprising either! nt

[EFerrari]

79. Yeah, I have a decent ability to slough off bullshit.

:)

[NashVegas]

57. You Seem To Not Realize WHY The Envelope Is Pushed

You do it to find out where the limits are. This group found out, first hand, and were commanded to take their heads out of their asses.

It really is that simple.

[MADem]

63. No, it isn't., But thanks for that thought. nt

[paulsby]

93. correct.

in this country you have the right to ridicule, mock, disrespect or whatever ANY religion.

period.

in france, you don't

this aint france.

[Truth2Tell]

104. Your favorite kind of story...

one where you can insult EVERYONE involved.

[inna]

96. so judgmental.

:shrug:

[no name no slogan]

4. Agreed. The whole "Go Native" thing sounds one step away from

blackface and minstrel shows. Sounds to me like it's a bunch of suburban white kids trying to show their "sensitivity" by co-opting bits and pieces from more "authentic" indigenous cultures.

Granted, threatening violence against them is also wrong, and should be condemned, but it's completely understandable given the glib nature of the event. I mean, come on, and absinthe bar? Alcohol has done more to destroy indigenous communities than almost any other substance, and they're celebrating native culture with it? Couldn't they find any Crazy Horse Malt Liquor?

[redqueen]

7. A half-step away? They asked people to dress up.

So... well...

[no name no slogan]

8. Well, maybe not a half step then

Maybe standing right on top of them. And if I were to catch one of them dumb idjits singing "Swanee", I swear there'd be cockpunches all around.

(and this from a guy who has never hit another human being in anger in his life).

[omega minimo]

25. "step an fetchit"

:thumbsdown:

[arcadian]

9. I'm with redqueen on this one.

Highlighting this: "some began threatening Visionary Village with arson and rape." is inconsequential, I've seen a lot worse posted on this site.

[walldude]

10. Yeah find the one post.. typical DU

And frankly, we stole their land, we forced them onto reservations, we destroyed much of the beauty of this land with 7-11's and strip malls, we trivialized them into "bad guys" you know Cowboys and Indians, and then, when they found a way to start making a comeback ie: Casinos we did our best to fuck them over on that as well. Gee, I can't imagine why they would be "overwrought, hyper-excitable and pathological primadonnas". What a bunch of ungrateful assholes...

[MADem]

13. What's this "we" shit? Neither I nor any of my relatives stole any land.

None of my ancestors belonged to any "power structure" that did so either.

And if you have something to say about the content of a post I make, have the guts to say it TO me, or don't bother. To do otherwise is cowardly.

[walldude]

99. Oh I see so your self righteousness has now made you the law giver?

I have the right to comment on whatever I want to whoever I want whenever I want... and you have the right to call me a coward for it if that's how you see it. Isn't America great! Look if you want to make special rules for me talk to skinner.... otherwise don't bother because to do it otherwise is cowardly.

[MADem]

110. "Law" has nothing to do with it. I'm simply calling you as I see you.

You have every "right" to do whatever the hell you want within the context of the DU rules, and so do I. I noted that you demonstrated your lack of bravery (or perhaps ability to engage on the merits) by snarking on the side instead of confronting me directly on a difference of opinion. That is evidence of your CHARACTER. I pointed it out. This IS a discussion board, and I'm DISCUSSING your conduct. Which, as I said it was. Deal with it--it's YOUR behavior.

[hunter]

90. I miss the old days when we could burn suspected sex offenders at the stake.

Don't you?

We didn't need no meteors thrown down by the Most High, no court of law, we could just tie the perverts to a stake, bury them up to the knees in oiled kindling, click our bics, and be done with them.

The smell of burning flesh in the morning is invigorating.

[tigereye]

5. well, what did they expect? It's San Francisco, for one thing, where folks

are very aware.


Maybe some of em needed some lecturing. :shrug: Wonder why they didn't coordinate the themes and plan it with some cultural support?

Also the neurofeedback aspect sounds fascinating.. On edit, I missed the threats of arson and rape part - that's very uncool.

[redqueen]

11. I think it's safe to say that they definitely needed some lecturing.

I'm sorry it was so harsh that they ended up in tears... but I think some eye-opening was definitely in order.

[MADem]

15. It was a private party.

As an example, I rather doubt that the Bay Area Democrats, after putting up a fortune to put on a shindig for three hundred people, and maybe telling folks to show up dressed as members of the failed Bush regime, would be too thrilled to have their PRIVATE party crashed and the guests held hostage by angry, hectoring members of the Young Republicans.

Look, to be clear, I think the little bastards were "culturally insensitive." But I think the NA's were guilty of trespassing, harassment, communicating threats, and who knows what else. There's plenty of wrong and ignorance to go around here.

The way to go would have been to protest outside the venue, call a few newspapers, garner a bit of sympthy, message transmission and goodwill, and not crash the party and ruin it. Shame works better than thuggery. The party planners showed restraint by not having the NA's arrested. Or maybe they were too drunk/stupid to think of it.

[omega minimo]

17. They were Democrats?

[MADem]

21. OK, I get it now. You are unable to read a sentence and comprehend it.

You should get some help for that. It's never too late.

I won't waste my time with you any longer.

:hi:

[omega minimo]

50. I didn't read all your posts. Too belligerent.

[redqueen]

22. Held hostage? Did they have guns?

Come on now... be serious.

[MADem]

51. I invite your attention to the example I offered you upthread.

RE: the pow wow in the high school gym.

You said "you can leave anytime" but these people PAID for the party. They rented the venue, hired the music, paid for the drinks and food. And a bunch of guys come in and start yelling at them.

Would you put up with it if a few people you perceived as "friendly" that you "invited" to your party suddenly starting lecturing you on Republican Family Values and demanding that you change your tune? How about if these people started bullying your guests?

I am being serious. The fact is, being a jerk isn't against the law. It's an unpopular stand I'm taking, but then, the popular views don't need anyone to defend them.

[redqueen]

53. And the group said they were fine with the NA guests attending.

So why you keep trying to pretend that they were somehow put upon by the NA's attendance is beyond me.

[MADem]

65. They weren't fine with a takeover and lecture, though.

There were false pretenses in that equation.

I am not pretending that they were "put upon." They WERE "put upon." They were lectured to the point of tears. That is the very definition of being "put upon."

[redqueen]

72. If they didn't leave... I don't know how that could be.

Some were reduced to tears, not all. And as they were invited, I still don't consider that to be put upon.

Inconvenient, unpleasant... not the party party drunk BS that so many people seem to enjoy... but as they could have left any time and didn't... no, sorry. I still don't see it.

I do have to be going now but thanks for the discussion. :)

[paulsby]

95. bingo. i had a similar experience in college

yes, i was a drunken college FRAT BOY (oh noes!).

if we had a private party, on our own (or rented private property) with whatever insensitivities we chose, nobody has the right to trespass and start lecturing us either.

the kids sounded like they were insensitive (god forbid somebody is insensitive). fine. protest outside. write a letter, etc.

don't crash a party

[EFerrari]

32. Native American activists told the planners they were going to attend

and there were no grounds for keeping them out. They were not banned from attending this "private party" and as de facto invitees, there were no GROUNDS for arrest.

So, there was no trespassing and no harassment and no restraint. :puke:

[MADem]

67. I've answered that elsewhere in this thread. Go fish. NT

[omega minimo]

78. Go fish yourself

:evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

80. LOL

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

84. pssss--------

:spray:

[NashVegas]

62. It's All Fun and Games 'til Someone Gets An Eye Poked Out

I lost any desire I might have ever had to visit a Burn some years ago, when a DUer posted their account and, what it all came down to was that they were there for the drugs and the sex with young nubile things.

Whatever.

[MADem]

69. From the accounts I've read, they just don't seem like much fun.

To each his own, though.

[Runcible Spoon]

75. Nothing wrong with that, just call it what it is!

I was hard core into the "rave" scene in the 90's but none of us were walking around pretending that we were into some deep spiritual shit or anything even remotely approaching a level of palpable social or political importance.

IMO, that's why the social scene died and why it was oh so easily co-opted for corporate use. Beautiful music with few lyrics and fun drugs only go so far.

[mix]

85. "Go Native!" WTF? n/t

[EFerrari]

86. Their next party was going to be Darky Night.

Who the f are these people?

They got exactly the reaction they deserved.

[mix]

91. a "teachable moment", i hope they learned n/t

[mrbarber]

92. Geez, this thread reminds me of the article about the wacko's..

Who were threatening the lives of the children of those receiving bailout money and bonuses.

Evidently, it's fine to threaten people with physical harm as long as we agree that there all "bad" people.

Those college kids had a right to throw any damn party they wanted to without having it disrupted as long as they were following the letter of the law, which they were. As MADeme said, very eloquently, it's the assholes who need the most protection, because they will always be the first to have their rights stripped away-and we all know what a slippery slope that is.

[varelse]

97. I can only hope someone in that mess learned something valuable and life-changing from it

I'd start by thanking the Native Americans for taking the time to provide free history lessons:

Within the dark, labyrinthine walls of the 140-year-old former brothel, old Native Americans were lecturing young Burners on what it meant to be Indian. Lit by dim lamps under red glass lampshades, tribal elder Wounded Knee DeOcampo — wearing a black T-shirt that read "original landlord" — stood over performance artist "Cicada" in her sparkly, sheer scarf and layered hipster garb, lecturing her about his grandmother's forcible kidnapping and rape at white hands.

"There's a lot of pain," he said. "I don't want you to agree with me, I want you to understand!"

These folks have a LOT more patience that I do, that's for sure!

[inna]

98. you're 2 weeks late with this post.

note the date of the article btw; me thinks that was one of them april fool's posts.

[Kali]

100. I got it in an e-mail today

posted it then got another email later this afternoon from the group it was sent to pointing that very fact out, (and I kind of went "eep!") but from what I can tell from the actual article and comments it is real.

On the surface it is almost silly enough to be fake but the details and commentary seem to connect to a real event. The article is very inflammatory and that is pointed out in several of the comments but the events did seem to have taken place.

[inna]

101. i'm just surprised i haven't heard anything about this before....

... being on network(s) that are referred to in the article.


i admit, my first thought was - how in the world did i miss that?? and one of my impulses was to re-post this article on the networks in question; but after googling this all (and noticing the DATE of the original article), i decided against it. :)

[inna]

102. having said that, thanks for this thread!

SERIOUSLY. either way - hoax or not - it was very interesting.

any further links/info would be much appreciated.

[mix]

105. there is an editor's note

that says this article is real

[inna]

103. rec #7, nt

[McCamy Taylor]

106. No one "owns" a culture. Imagine if Irish folks protested St. Patrick's Day.

All those Anglos drinking green beer. And the Anglos treated the Irish the same way European whites treated the American Natives.

[EFerrari]

108. Oh, brother. Yes, the people do own their culture.

And if St Patrick's Day was some kind of rip off, you bet you'd hear about it.

Seriously, what are you thinking. Does the abuse of the Irish make this okay in retro? Holy cow.

[Elidor]

107. Oh, my

"Name your little villages whatever you want, but don't ever associate it with Native Americans. Call it the Crystal Ranch or something. Call it the Mars Ranch. If you want to be spiritual — go be a Druid or something."

Oh, snap!