The Nation: Can We Forget About Pirates, Please?

[marmar]

Can We Forget About Pirates, Please?
posted by Robert Dreyfuss on 04/14/2009 @ 11:36am



There are two ways to read this, from Secretary of Defense Robert Gates:

"I am confident that we will be spending a lot of time in the situation room over the next few weeks trying to figure out what in the world to do about this problem."

By "this problem," Gates was referring to piracy on the high seas off the coast of Somalia. I don't know about you, but I'd put it like this: the recent death of eight-year-old Sandra Cantu in a small town in northern California was a horrific tragedy, and like the dozens of other stories like that -- say, the murder of the little beauty queen in Colorado a few years back -- the story riveted media attention for days. In the big picture, however, such stories are unimportant and, like the O.J. Simpson case, are sensationalized by the media (especially cable news channels) for their obvious value in attracting mindless viewers who want to cluck-cluck about the latest atrocity.

So, too, the "saga" of the ship's captain held by pirates. My response: Give me a break!

In the grand scheme of things, I hope that the situation rooms at the Pentagon and the White House are devoted to the real problems in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and elsewhere, and not to petty piracy conducted by 17-year-old swashbucklers.

But no. President Obama himself said: "We are resolved to halt the rise of piracy in that region." I'd like to think that he said that because of the media attention to the dramatic sniper attack and rescue of the captain, but I wonder. I really hope he's not planning to do anything about it. At least, not much. .........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/426799?rel=hp_picks

[ASUliberal]

1. I think there is a legitimate problem in that region of the world

However everyone seems to be missing the true problem. Pirates aren't the problem. They are a symptom.

The problem is that there is no Mothaf&*kin government in Somalia. In fact there are vast areas in the horn of Africa that are under no government control at all.

That is the problem we need to deal with. It has been a humanitarian crisis for over 20 years and the only thing that brings any attention to it is a few pirates hijacking boats? This is pathetic.

[JeanGrey]

4. Most criminals are a "symptom" of something. We cannot

solve everyone's problems. They need to start arming those ships and if the piracy continues it is going to probably go bad for the pirates.

[ASUliberal]

5. HAHA

Oh yeah like this is just another criminal issue amongst a pile of them? Just throw this one in with all the others?

An entire region of the world is living in a cesspool of humanitarian failure. And you are just chalking it up to all criminals have problems? Wow...how insensitive.

It's nice to see so many of my democratic brothers acting like such isolationist pigs.

[ASUliberal]

6. See apparently you have no interest in actually fixing the problem...

instead you just want to mask it by giving ships big guns. It's not going to stop pirates. It's just going to give them more reason to get bigger guns than the ships have.

[JeanGrey]

7. You are welcome to your opinion. If the piracy continues

it isn't going to go well for the pirates. It's that simple.

[ASUliberal]

8. No it isn't going to go well for any of the parties involved period...

and that includes the people of Africa.

You don't bust the heroin addict and declare that you've won a major war on drugs.

You don't bust the pirates and expect anything to change in the horn of Africa. The pirates are a symptom of a much, much bigger problem.

Re stabilizing the political and social structure of Eastern Africa is the action that will effectively cut down on piracy and all the other problems plaguing that part of the world.

[JeanGrey]

11. If more pirates lost their lives trust me, it will ease.

Up until now they've had a free ride. Very little risk and their demands met about 100 percent of the time. When that changes, they will too.

[ASUliberal]

13. When you are someone living in a country..

who's per capita GDP is roughly 600 dollars a year, you aren't necessarily going to be swayed by a ship with guns on it.

The incentive to be a pirate vastly outweighs any risk of death.

Just you watch. Guns might slow piracy for a while, but the pirates will get bigger guns and evolve new techniques.

[JeanGrey]

19. Oh I'm sure a ship with guns on it will sway them.

So far they've had no opposition at all.

[dflprincess]

23. If the situation escalates if won't just be pirates who are killed

there will be more innocent lives lost as well. It does no good to only treat the symptoms and not try and do something about the cause.

[JeanGrey]

24. There will always be casualties. We do try to help the

situation (i.e., aid).

But we can't be threatened and robbed.

[dflprincess]

25. "We" aren't being threatened and robbed

there are some private companies who are being threatened and yes, they do have a right to protect themselves. However, I have a hard time being quite so cavalier about "collateral" damage.

Violence does beget violence and we can hope that now that commerce is being threatened the rest of the world will decide that the region needs to stabilized. There is a large Somali population in Minneapolis and lately several young men have gone missing from the community. It is believed that they are being lured to Somalia where they are being trained or coerced into terrorism. Continuing to ignore what is going on there or only responding with violence is another of those foreign policy decisions that will come back and bite us is the butt.

[ASUliberal]

26. No the United States does very little

to help the situation. As individual Americans, we donate money to programs that barely stave off mass starvation.

We abandoned Africa 20 years ago when the US and France (specifically France) castrated the UN and made them all moving targets.

There is very little being done to fight back rebel armies. In turn no place is stable and people are constantly being killed.


If the US wants to do something, they should significantly increase support of the UN and start an operation alongside the UN to expel rebel groups, install stable governments and provide substantially increased aid.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Your solution is to arm the ships that go into the Mediterranean and Indian Ocean ports

Have you thought that allowing heavy weapons into dozens of countries might actually need international coordination? And that therefore it would be something for a major government to be involved in?

Or are you a true anarchist - let everyone do what they like with weapons, and if they can escape from a jurisdiction (the ships you allowed to be armed are, after all, mobile) they can do what they want?

[arcadian]

17. Yeah, that plan has worked so well with the insurgencies in Iraq & Afghanistan.

:eyes: Thank goodness you are in absolutely no position to affect U.S. foreign policy.

[JeanGrey]

20. Watch and see. The ships will arm, they have no choice.

And we'll probably provide cover as well.

[Trajan]

18. This is BS ....

There is absolutely NO evidence that the piracy off the shore of Somalia is any different in nature than piracy elsewhere in the world ....

Yeah ... things are bad all over, but that fact doesn't offer a fig leaf for naked criminality - Theft is theft ... Theft at the point of a gun is armed robbery ....

These are not the starving masses breaking down store windows to access food - These are sophisticated and ORGANIZED criminal enterprises using the force of arms to take what doesn't belong to them ....

One can make any analogies they wish, but the bottom line is; If it is a crime in one instance it is a crime in another instance: If it is NOT a crime to commit armed theft on the open sea, then it is not a crime anywhere else ....

Piracy is a symptom of a desire to acquire wealth through robbery .... Hardly an altruistic motive ....

[JeanGrey]

21. THANK YOU! It's good some people get it!

[arcadian]

22. You are wrong. If you are an oligarch in the United States, theft is not theft.

It's a way of life. kind of smashes your little theory.

[Trajan]

28. What cynical nonsense ...

You apparently possess no moral imperative beyond what the WORST that might exist ....

If someone steals, then stealing is OK ?

If someone rapes, then rape is OK ??

IF someone kills, then killing is OK ?

Kinda smashes your little theory ....

Tu Quoque fallacy

I would hate to live in the world that occupies your skull .... Things are pretty much hopeless there ...

[arcadian]

31. Man, trajan, you really got a bee in your bonnet.

That and you're a fucking grovelling idiot.

[Trajan]

32. Let's add 'Argumentum Ad Hominem' to your bag of tricks ...

I really dont give a fuck what you say or think - The fact that you possess no apparent foundation for the establishment of a personal code of ethics, other than fallacious bullshit, makes discarding such utter nonsense that much easier ....

Reasonable people agree : Armed robbery is a crime ...

Grovelling idiot ? ..... HAH ! .... blow it out yer arse, amoral cuss ....

[Prophet 451]

27. I partly agree with you

An increase in crime is always an indicator of a deeper social problem, in this case, probably that Somalia is utterly FUBAR. What can be done about that is open to debate. Handle that and the majority of pirates will go away.

However, a small percentage will remain for the same reason that criminal gangs always persist, no matter how good life gets. What I hope DOESN'T happen is some kind of "war on piracy". Right now, the pirates are relatively small, independant gangs; too disorganised and small to do much damage but if there's an overreaction to this or similar incidents (and, oh my Satan, am I glad Bush is out of office right now), one of the first things that will happen is that the pirates will get organised.

[Occam Bandage]

2. Now that an American is no longer involved, let's go back to ignoring this enormous problem. nt

[BlooInBloo]

3. No. Among other things, another US flagged ship was fired upon today...

More generally, ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.

[bluestateguy]

9. I stand with the president and his leadership.

nt

[Bobbieo]

12. So do I!!!

[wilt the stilt]

10. can the Pirates

play .500 baseball?

[tularetom]

14. The most practical solution is not one that many people would recommend

Each ship should have a couple of sharpshooters assigned to it paid by the shipping company. If the ship is attacked by pirates simply shoot them. Don't need to provide Navy destroyer escorts. Don't need government intervention.

Of course the problem is that there are just not that many sharpshooters sitting around waiting to be hired for a gig like this. They definitely aren't on the shipping lines payroll. Those that are available probably work for Blackwater or Xbox or whatever the fuck they call themselves these days and those outfits are probably only marginally preferable to the pirates.

Or train all sailors in small arms handling and provide them all with weapons. That's how the merchant ships repelled pirate attacks in the days of Morgan and Blackbeard.

We don't need to kill fleas with cannons.

[corruptmewithpower]

15. I think we should propose a UN Security Council resolution.

That should scare those pirates straight.

:sarcasm:

[arcadian]

16. This story just pissed off a lot of DUers

I agree whole heartedly with The Nation. Again I am vindicated for posting my "Enough of the Rah-Rah USA! shit" thread and also my "The pirates thing is nothing but Bread & Circuses/We like to watch things die" thread. But then again, I was vindicated when EFerrari posted a thread saying they were going to come up with a reality TV show surrounding the pirate ordeal.

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. The solution is very simple

1. Stop those enormous tankers loaded down with crude oil, food, industrial products, and other cargo from engaging in the highly lucrative practice of fishing in international waters off Somalia. We have to resist the urge to catch staggering quantities of fish on a boat that takes at least a week to get from there to here. I know, it's going to be a real hardship, missing out on all that fresh Somalian coastal seafood in American supermarkets, but we just have to do it. Maybe there are some fish in the Atlantic Ocean. Or perhaps the Pacific. Or, failing those two, the Gulf of Mexico. It's worth a look. The great American chefs are just going to have to go to fish markets to find their raw product; they'll have to stop buying fish from longshoremen.

2. Stop dumping radioactive waste off the coast of Somalia. Just stop. And just take the pirates' word for it until there exists sufficient technology to capture the dumping acts on some sort of film or electronic media. That technology is probably right around the corner, as is the technology that would allow for water samples to be tested for radioactivity. Until radically new technologies are developed to document events and test for their aftermath, we have no choice but to rely on the word of people who extort money for a living.

[Norrin Radd]

30. We need to upset the pirate/ninja stalemate by

creating more ninja.

[ForrestGump]

34. Typical American myopia and ethnocentrism

I've been seeing a lot of it here, and in relation to this topic it's nowhere more obvious than on the part of those who seem to see the pirates as victims (yeah, in a way, they are) worthy of forgiveness and perhaps even milk and cookies for their adolescent mischief (no, they're not). The bigger picture, and this has not exactly been a secret these past few decades, is that piracy is and has long been alive and well in several corners of the world. It is a significant concern -- ask anyone who's run afoul of these scurvy scum or had a close call -- and it will remain one long after the collective American attention, fleeting though it may be, has drifted on to the next news extravaganza that involves Americans front and center. Further, there seems a strong tendency for those who spout off about how misunderstood and hard done by are the young pirates of Somalia to ignore (or be ignorant of) the fact that pirates run rampant in other parts if the world, including those a lot closer to our glorious Homeland. Piracy is a significant concern far from Somali waters, too, though you wouldn't know it to read these DU threads that seem to focus on absolutist views of what is the problem and what are the solutions in Somalia. The writer of this bit from The Nation may want to forget about pirates but a great many people in less comfy parts of the globe can do anything but that, this fact handily highlighting the inherent navel-gazing fuckwittery of yet another self-satisfied American 'liberal' possessed with words far more clever than his thoughts.

And, yes, Somalia is FUBAR to the max, but taking direct action against the pirates -- basically taking them into custody and killing those who resist or who threaten the lives of innocents -- does not translate to nuking the hell out of Somalia or otherwise waging indiscriminate war against targets both appropriate and apparently random there or anywhere else. Hopefully the people now in charge are not prone to that. I mean, Somalia may be different in that there's little to no meaningful government in charge, so the pirates are as much at least a de facto part of the political infrastructure as anyone, but the same is not true of other locales afflicted with pirates -- Indonesia, for example. Pirates are, typically, extragovernmental free agents and conducting a campaign against them is no different than going after drug lords, gang leaders, and the like. Destroying pirates' ability to go about their nefarious business does not mean that we or any other nation needs run amok and is a particularly appropriate mission for lightly-armed special forces personnel (or, in problem areas at sea, a 'honey-pot' ploy, teaching crew how to make a lot of Molotov cocktails without blowing themselves up, or ferrying small detachments of multinational soldiers to ships once clear of no-weapons zones).

Further, those of you who seem to see the pirates as some sort of freedom fighters, or as the very least as helpless victims of circumstance, might do well to visit the real world now and then. Pirates are criminals, typically particularly amoral and vicious ones.

[Trajan]

36. Thanks for this ....

It is pretty easy for me - Take something you do not own from someone at the point of a gun, then you have committed a criminal act ...

I have no problem with legitimately organized law enforcement, using a strict code of engagement based on civil ethics, enforcing international law against those who would commit such crimes ....

Their skin color, nationality or political philosophy has nothing whatsoever to do with it ....

[moondust]

35. I must be missing something.

Once a small boat loaded with several swarthy young males and their guns is clearly identified as pirates approaching your vessel, why not open up with a few bursts of M60 or .50 caliber machine gun fire and sink their boat? You wouldn't necessarily have to shoot anybody. Their boat sinks and can never be used again. Sooner or later the pirates give up or run out of boats.

:shrug:

[ThomWV]

37. Another example of shifting of focus from issues to events.