Why isn’t anyone talking about the people that tortured people to death?

[rhett o rick]

Surely they will be prosecuted. They clearly weren’t acting as reasonable officials.

They were not even following Gonzo’s interpretation of the Constitution written on the back of an envelope.

They killed people and still work for the CIA.

Are we a country of laws or not?

[HereSince1628]

1. Sshhhh! You'll disturb the sound of silence. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. We are NOT a country of laws, we are an empire

to quote the Mexican Press on this, seeing Obama is like seeing Julius Caesar....

[NYCGirl]

3. I believe that's called murder and it's prosecutable.

But I don't think that's who Obama is speaking of.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. excellent point-

thanks.

[rhett o rick]

7. Exactly, noone is speaking of the deaths by torture. nm

[polmaven]

11. It has already been pointed out

by the administration that those who went beyond what the Justice Department authorized may - (and I stress the word MAY) - be prosecuted. I do believe you're correct. Murder doesn't appear to be part of what was "authorized".

[jberryhill]

23. Ummmm... take a look at this federal law - to be clear

18 USC § 2340A. Torture

(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

...

(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

[Duende azul]

34. No. Only a - surely lamentable - tragic, accident, happening to brave people serving the nation.

Let´s not look back.

btw: When the president said it´s not time for retribution, I learned something new.
In fact the penal laws are for the purpose of retribution? (Enter that in the death penalty discussion, where it is often denied as the real motive.)

As he is the expert on the matter, why is he deliberately mudding the waters?
The keyword is justice. And clearly he couldn't say "it´s not time for justice". So he choose a word that paints the plea for justice in a negative light.

Btw: How can he give up on "retribution" if he isn`t the offended person?
Did he talk to the (surviving) victims and ask for their ok?

And here we have another group of people no one really talks about: the victims of torture.

[riverwalker]

4. and the medical people

who assisted, or were complicit in any way, should lose their license to practice medicine/health care FOREVER. Be they a nurse, a physician, a lab tech, hell, even a xray technician. Even better than the memos, would be NAMES. Give us names, and let the litigation flow.

[rhett o rick]

8. I agree. nm

[wurzel]

6. According to a Raw Story article, kids were tortured with insects?

Kids in Pakistan were tortured with insects to reveal their fathers whereabouts. I think the Administation better take another look at what happened.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. can you link the article?

I know what you are refrencing, but I haven't found the article- and I'd like to have something more concrete about the situation.
The were the sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed- age.. 7 & 9.... back in 2002/3


I'd sure appreciate reading the article.

thanks-

[rhett o rick]

10. I think you will find it at rawstory.com on the front page. nm

[Bluerthanblue]

12. Thank YOU! I

did find it and some links to other articles which reference them.

(i've never been to rawstory before- :silly: yikes, lots of info)

I appreciate your help.

[rhett o rick]

15. I appreciate your interest. nm

[Echo In Light]

17. Seymour Hersh says there's video of children being sodomized @Abu Ghraib

[tekisui]

18. 'Kiddie torture'.

Teenagers were also sodomized and forced to have sex with their fathers. It was all taped and used to coerce information. Limbs were broken.

[whathehell]

36. OMG...I'd heard about the sodomy...but not the forced incest..

Do you have a link for that?

If true, it's sickening beyond belief..if it's not punished, I don't know what to think about Obama.

[tekisui]

38. I don't have a link, right off hand.

I heard it on Democracy Now! Sy Hersch wrote about some of the worst things done as well.

[L0oniX]

13. Everyone would torture given the right circumstances.

The Milgram Experiment showed that many would torture.

[gratuitous]

14. I don't know about "everyone"

But yeah, once "permission" was granted (and probably before, and certainly after it was revoked), there would be no shortage of thugs, goons, sadists and just plain mean assholes on our government's payroll who were lining up to slap the restraints on some luckless bastard and go to town.

[rhett o rick]

20. How does that apply here. Are you saying these torturers didn't know right from wrong?

Give them their day in court. If they want to plead diminished capacity, fine go for it. But not JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS, especially when these orders were backed up by a memo that interprets the Constitution and Geneva Convention. These people were not that stupid, they knew exactly what they were doing.

[L0oniX]

21. As I understand it, they can refuse to comply if what they are being ordered to do goes...

against the law. Certainly those laws would be those of the USA and secondly those that are international and of the Geneva convention. So are you saying that you think they did not know they were violating laws or that the orders they were given were/are against the law?

[rhett o rick]

25. I am saying that all half way intellegent Americans know what torture is. You don't need a memo

from Gonzo explaining that you can bash someones head in. Can you imagine the conversation. Superior, "I want you to stick that persons head in the water until they almost die." "But sir, isn't that torture and against the law?". No private, Gonzo wrote a memo and said it is ok. " "Oh, thank you sir, that's different".

Let's get them in front of a jury and ask them if they thought it was ok to beat someones head against the wall.

[spanone]

16. in a true nation of laws, i'd think prosecution of known criminal acts wouldn't be a choice

[MrCoffee]

19. The law is on their side

Read Section 6 of the Military Commissions Act


http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s3930enr.txt.pdf

Page 33

[EFerrari]

28. If the law was on their side, BushCo wouldn't have mustered to put those

memos together months later . . .

[hootinholler]

22. You mean this guy?

Or maybe This one?



Did the memos authorize the wearing of shit?



-Hoot

[jberryhill]

24. I think this might have something to do with it

As they say on the game shows, "Tell 'em what they're playing for, Johnny...."


18 USC § 2340A. Torture

(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

...

(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

[nichomachus]

26. Oh, look, a puppy -- isn't he cute . . . .

[EFerrari]

27. I did yesterday and was told I hated our "service people"

and frankly, I was afraid of being banned for introducing the idea that the "little guys" destroyed lives and illegally.

[rhett o rick]

29. It's not clear who did the actual torturing. Was it contracted out? Did Blackwater?

Were the torturers even American citizens? or mercenaries?

[EFerrari]

31. From the reading I've done, it was CIA personnel assisted by

medical personnel that may be some part Pentagon and some part contractors. But, that's only my best guess right now.

CIA culture is too control freaky to hire this out -- although, it's ironic that many top level ex-CIA guys go immediately to Blackwater and etc.

[stillcool]

30. The CIA has been torturing/killing..

people for decades, just never on such a large scale that they had to get legal consent, and kept going back to verify the legality if they changed methods. I don't remember the military ever doing this, but weren't they involved? Can't help but wonder what else they've been doing and where.

[EFerrari]

32. Yes, the Pentagon was in it up to their eyeballs. My best evidence is

how they all lied their asses off at the Taguba hearings.

[stillcool]

35. Wasn't the FBI involved with..

interrogations at Gitmo?

[EFerrari]

37. At the beginning. When the torture started, they bailed.

They get credit for that.

[EFerrari]

33. Dupe.

[rhett o rick]

39. haven't contractors been involved? Blackwater (now Xe)?? nm