Is there a right to open rebellion in a representative government?

[Occam Bandage]

Poll question: Is there a right to open rebellion in a representative government?

For clarification: for the purposes of this poll, "representative government" means a government in which all citizens (including, specifically, those who would like to rebel) have the vote and enjoy equal legal protection. If a minority is denied those (such as the American colonists in 1770, or African-Americans in 1950), and are unable to seek redress legally, then that government does not count as "representative" for the purposes of this poll.

[grasswire]

1. violent or non?

Does that matter?

[Occam Bandage]

2. I think that's only tangental. If a government is representative,

does the individual have the right to defy the government?

[Traveling_Home]

3. It's called the Bill Of Rights nt

[Occam Bandage]

5. The Bill of Rights does not offer citizens the right to rebel. nt

[noamnety]

4. They don't have a legal right to disobey a law, if that's what you're asking.

Which means they need to participate in civil disobedience with the understanding that they may face consequences for it.

[Occam Bandage]

7. Well, they don't have a legal right within the legal framework of that government.

I'm asking from a natural law perspective. I believe civil disobedience, which is a form of rebellion, is valid in a non-representative government and invalid in a representative one.

[noamnety]

9. It's valid either way.

Even the military requires soldiers to not comply with an illegal order - even if a representative government wrote a memo stating torture was legal.

[Occam Bandage]

14. An illegal order does not carry force of law.

Failure to follow an illegal order is not civil disobedience.

[noamnety]

17. Sure it carries the force of law.

that's why some of our soldiers have been imprisoned for refusing to take part in an illegal invasion.

Some of the laws are only found to be illegal/unconstitutional far after the time they've been enforced.

I'm not entirely sure of the point of the thread though without clarification of what "rebellion" is.

[LostInAnomie]

6. I guess as long as you don't break any laws.

That would be a pretty lame rebellion though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Legal right? Or, Human right?

Government's are rather loathe to give rights to people. Usually, people have to take the rights they want.

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." Thomas Paine

“Where the state begins, individual liberty ceases, and vice versa.” Mikhail Bakunin

[enlightenment]

10. By definition, a rebellion is an open refusal to

accept the will of generally accepted authority or convention.

'Right' is an interesting way to frame the concept of defying authority. If you accept the premise that humans are born with certain rights (life, liberty, property/pursuit of happiness) then of course they have a right to rebel against a government that they believe is denying them their rights. The rebellion is the outgrowth of the perceived loss of the other rights.

I think Madison did a pretty good job of arguing this in the Federalist Papers.

[Uncle Joe]

11. The key phrase is "representative government" and to that,

I say yes as for peaceful rebellion, no to violent rebellion. This is the ultimate last resort bulwark to guarantee representative government.

Without that right, representative government would cease to exist, this is why I view corporate supremacy as a national security threat because that dynamic erodes government ability either by bribery or coercion to represent the people.

[leftstreet]

12. What is this 'representative government' of which you speak?

[Occam Bandage]

13. A government in which

all citizens are given the right to vote, in which all governmental offices are either directly or indirectly elected (indirectly meaning through open appointment by an elected official who will later stand for election), and in which all citizens are offered equal protection under the law.

[leftstreet]

16. Wall Street Crooks = exonerated. Dope Smokers = incarcerated

'equal protection under the law'

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

15. No, unless their rebellion is successful. nt

[Libertyfirst]

18. Indeed. The right to revolution defended in the Declaration of

Independence is realized only if you succeed. If not, you get executedl

[Synicus Maximus]

19. I realize that Jefferson is not the most popular president around here

but he said "A little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical…It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."