Wrenching politics surround stillborns

[kskiska]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Bereft moms want birth papers, but abortion complicates issue

Cherie Golant has three photos of her daughter Julia at birth. She has a lock of Julia's newborn hair, thick and dark. She has Julia's handprints, footprints and hospital wristbands.

She also has memories of 30 hours of grueling labor -- but no official record of Julia's birth.

Julia was stillborn, with her umbilical cord around her neck. The state issued only a death certificate.

(snip)

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, vetoed a similar bill Friday. In his veto memo, he said it would create redundant documents -- a death certificate and a certificate of stillbirth -- that could lead to confusion and fraud. But the bill's author, Republican state Sen. Lee Rawson, said the pro-choice governor didn't sign the law because he believed it would bolster the anti-abortion campaign.

Read more: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/04/10/MNGQAP5HRV1.DTL

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A birth certificate is intended as proof of a live birth. A stillborn is not "live."

[IsisDawn]

1. NO WAY

No way you should get a birth certificate for a stillborn. Would it only be issued for stillborns who are delivered after 9 months????? What if a woman had a stillborn at 6 months? At 3 months? At 1 month?

I feel bad for the lady but she is obviously suffering from a mental problem if she thinks a birth certificate is gonna change anything.

[liberalhistorian]

7. Ummmm......it isn't called a "stillbirth" if it's at

3 or 1 month, it's a miscarriage. The term stillbirth is reserved for babies who are viable and full or near-full term but who are born dead. And her only "mental problem" is that she is suffering the grief of a deceased child, because that's exactly what it is.

That being said, you cannot issue birth certificates for babies who were not born alive, as sad and tragic as that is for the parents, especially the mother; you can only issue death certificates. My thoughts and prayers for this poor woman, the loss of a child is one of the worst things anyone can ever suffer in life.

Since the baby was alive in the womb prior to birth and whatever happened to cause its death, perhaps some kind of "certificate of life" or something similar that acknowledges that fact, and gives the baby the name the parents want, without it being an actual birth certificate since the baby wasn't actually born alive, would be a good substitute?

[IsisDawn]

9. Slippery slope where no one wins

Certificate of Life makes less sense than Birth Certificate. So only stillborns would be given Life Certificates and live births would get Birth Certificates. And you would suggest a time frame in which a mother would qualify for one of these certificates? It's my understanding 4 month old preemies have been kept alive once delivered? So why wouldn't miscarried 4 month old fetuses get this certificate????

[Madspirit]

38. liberalhistorian

I like everything you say in your post.
Thanks.
Lee

[SoCalDem]

42. The birth certificate actually says "live birth"

at least my kids' did.

Stillbirths, by definition, are not live births, so legally, they could not have a birth certificate.

It's very sad, but from a legal standpoint, I think it's just the way it is.


Some hospitals have gone to great lengths to hire people who photograph the infants, and prepare a box of mementos (the hospital band, the blanket, and other things) that is given to family members, so they can hold it for the parents until their feelings are less raw.

Something happened when I was only about 8 or 9, and I still remember it.. My mother's friend was pregnant and when she was about 7 months pregnant, her baby died in utero, and she had to carry that dead baby, until she went into labor.. These days, they would either do a c-section or at least induce labor, but back then they just had her carry that dead baby for about 2 or 3 weeks until her body was ready to expell it..

I cannot imagine the trauma of that :cry:

[Warpy]

2. While I have the greatest compassion for mothers of stillborns

and I believe there is no emotional pain worse, issuing a birth certificate seems a bit strange to me.

One would think the photos, the receiving blanket, hair (if there is any) and the certificate of stillbirth would be adequate record of a fetus that did not quite make it into this world. All are proof that someone tried to come into the world but didn't complete the journey.

Richardson is right about this. If birth certificates are issued for pregnancies that didn't result in a live birth, it opens a whole new area of attack for fetus fetishists to use to push women back into reproductive slavery. Remember, the fourteenth amendment specifies citizens to be born or naturalized. This is a right wing ploy to declare a fetus a citizen by declaring any fetus a citizen because at some point it will exit a uterus, alive or dead.

Yes, I know it's stupid and you know it's stupid but these people are zealots and they really do think in those terms.

Kudos to Richardson and my deepest sympathy to Ms. Golant.

[HockeyMom]

6. You are right - open a Pandora's Box

It would just fuel the fires of the anti choice. I had an ectopic pregnancy at 5 weeks. Issue a birth or death certificate? Plan a funeral? Not just absurd, but CRUEL.

[liberalhistorian]

8. Not to downplay or minimize your experience or anything, but

a stillbirth at nine months is a helluva lot different than an ectopic pregnancy at one month. A LOT different.

[IsisDawn]

10. Why is that?

Seriously at what point would you decide a woman is deserving of this recognition? Please enlighten us? I too have had 3 miscarriages and have NO children. My pain is less because I can't carry them longer?????????????????????????

[wicket]

24. I'm sorry IsisDawn

:hug:

[HockeyMom]

11. I suggest you inform yourself

on how far fetched the extreme Fundie agenda is. You give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Yes, they will take their agenda that far back to even the very early stages of pregnancy, i.e, "killing" babies after fertilization with birth control pills.

My definition of a still birth is that it died in utero. It never took a breath of air, so technically it was never born. It died before birth. So, if you could issue a birth certificate for a still birth, you would have to issue birth certificates for abortions and miscarriages (because they came out of the uterus)also. Understand where this can go?

Any medical people care to comment?

[LiberalFighter]

18. If they need a document. Get it from their minister!

But don't expect to get something from the government that does not have a valid purpose.

Birth Certificate
Is necessary for school, job employment, social security benefits, drivers license, etc.

Death Certificate
Is necessary for social security benefits, insurance, probate, burial purposes, etc.

Stillborn Certificate
I imagine this is necessary for insurance purposes and required for burial purposes.

[mopinko]

3. who is using this woman's pain, is what i want to know.

we all know the kind of scum that seeks out wounded people like this, to make them into poster children.

[saigon68]

4. Look no farther than Schaivo's family

And the ilk who were bringing her sub sandwiches to eat and cokes to drink

[Ilsa]

12. Good point. Someone is probably pushing her to fight for this.

It would be interesting to see who she is talking to. We already know what their agenda is (set up a roadmap for anti-choice legislation), but exposing them for using her might be difficult.

[HuffleClaw]

5. it is NOTHING except a steath anti-abortion ploy

the rest is pure dreck. they don't care one whit about grieving parents, not even a teensy bit. they are EXPLOITING these people for their fundy agenda.

[rodeodance]

13. We have mean spiritted people who play on greiving moms/others.

[rodeodance]

14. All states issue a death certificate for a stillbirth

Roughly 25,600 stillbirths occurred nationally in 2003, compared with about 2,500 SIDS cases, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. There were 6.2 stillbirths per 1,000 births, a rate that has declined about fourfold since 1942, according to the agency. The rate in California was about 5.3 per 1,000 births. In 2003, the latest year for which data are available, there were 2,862 stillbirths in the state.

All states issue a death certificate for a stillbirth and require the family to bury or cremate the body. In states that don't issue birth certificates, some hospitals offer commemorative certificates.

"How in the world do states ethically justify telling someone they have to bury someone who they are not willing to say existed?" asked Joanne Cacciatore, who ran the first campaign for birth certificates in her state of Arizona in 2001 and heads the Missing Angels Foundation. Her daughter Cheyenne died in 1994 during labor. Cacciatore said she thought about suicide every day for a year afterward.

[snooper2]

15. Interesting....I was born dead...

I had the cord around the neck and was brought back to life and had a helicopter ride to Cardinal Glennon(sp?)s Childrens Hospital in St. Louis.

I would have been pissed if I didn't get a birth certificate. I feel life basically begins when the baby is able to survive outside the womb on it's own, except in my case I needed some help. If I would have been pulled out a week earlier I would have been able to survive without man/machine.

I guess I would have wanted both birth and death certificates. But since I wouldn't have had any memories of that whole experience, I guess the whole issue really doesn't matter to me. :crazy:

[AnneD]

16. I would have been pissed too....

if they marked me as a boy. Mom heard them say I was a girl (this was in the good ol days when they gave you drugs).
Imagine the shock when the Nurse came in with circumcision papers. She pulled down the diaper next time they brought me in and checked the birth certificate.

The birth certificates are for live births only. Some infants that don't live for long get both. Infants that are stillborn are a sad delivery and I feel for the lady, but that is the law.

[LiberalFighter]

17. Personally, I would consider it sick for anyone to have a picture of a dead baby

[gatorboy]

20. Why is it sick?

Just because their child died, doesn't mean they can't love them any less. Or shouldn't have things (photos, hand prints, etc) to remember them by.

[LiberalFighter]

22. I didn't say anything about the hand prints and other items as being sick

just the photos of a stillborn.

[gatorboy]

26. And yet the question remains.

Why is this sick? These people probably loved their child very much and want something to remember them by. And were not talking about someone taking a photo from a casket :eyes: Hospitals will have them wrapped in a blanket for most of these shots and they simply look like their sleeping.

But why does this bother so much personally?

[LiberalFighter]

27. Why doesn't it bother you?

[gatorboy]

28. Because if I had a child that was stillborn, I might possibly want a photo.

Hey, if you're too embarrassed to answer that's fine....

[likesmountains 52]

39. I will weigh in on this because I have personal experience...read only if you are tough..

Sometimes the baby has been dead in utero for a day or more...and they do not photograph well..we try to get the best pictures for the parents but it's not easy believe me. We offer the parents the photographs and if they don't want them we keep the pictures on file and they can get them later if they change their minds...just my two cents..

[piedmont]

21. How very well-adjusted of you.

[LiberalFighter]

23. I don't see people taking pictures of their dead loved ones in the casket.

[piedmont]

29. It's been done, as well as death masks.

Beyond that, though, it's not common because in our society EVERYONE has ready access to camera equipment, and so the grieving family members have lots of other pictures of their loved ones. With a still-born baby, there's of course no other way to have a photo (unless you count a sonograph).

[Hekate]

34. Common practice in the 19th century, when so many infants died

Once photography became available, but not yet a daily thing, people wanted to memorialize more than family groupings, I can tell you. There are a lot of photos of babies, toddlers, and so on dressed up and posed "as if asleep" so their families would have something more than a lock of hair to remember them by. Although child mortality was common, families still grieved very much.

Every mother "knows" her child in utero, especially after quickening. Nine months is a long time to have something alive inside your body, and in a real sense we also imagine our babies into being. Nowadays we know the sex of the baby early on, we have ultrasound pictures before the fetus even looks human, and more. A stillbirth is a heartwrenching experience, all the more so since nowadays we expect all our babies to live.

My mother had 4 live deliveries, 2 miscarriages, and 1 full-term still birth between 1947 and 1957. Although she almost died from the miscarriages, the one that broke her heart was David, who died about a week before he was born. She never forgot.

If a hospital offers this compassionate service to those who want it, I say that's a good thing. Typically they allow time for the parents to say goodbye anyway, and as in the 19th century, the baby may be dressed, wrapped in a blanket, and posed in its mother's arms for a photo to remember it by.

Hekate

[piedmont]

19. Why not just give a birth certificate for every birth...

and note on the certificate whether it was a live birth or a still-birth? It doesn't have to be very prominent-- just a box to check off or something. It would also be helpful from a genealogist's perspective to have a record of an important event in the life of one's ancestors.

[Maine-ah]

25. ah, someone thinking logically!

How can you acknowledge death without acknowledging life first? That is my question to some of the folks here.

piedmont, I think you have found a rather simple, and logical solution.

[gatorboy]

30. Aright, who's that cutie patoodie?

[Maine-ah]

35. aw, thanks! that is little Miss Maine-ah (she looks like Daddy)

she turned 5 months yesterday! Cuttin' a tooth too. :hi:

[gatorboy]

37. Well she's a little doll!

Here's our cutie Lil' Annie:



She's 3 months old and as you can see, she joined the paratroopers! Not really. She was breech baby which loosened one of her hips. The paratrooper suit she wore helped push that joint back in place. She's fine now and back to drooling and screaming (screaming in a good way) :P

[Maine-ah]

40. omg.....she's wicked cute!

I love the tongue sticking out!

[piedmont]

33. Thanks! nt

[Maine-ah]

36. you're welcome

I just like the logical solutions as opposed the the knee-jerk reactions....:hi:

[Rosemary2205]

31. My birth certificate already does that.

It has 2 choices for live birth or stillbirth and a place to list how many previous live and stillbirths this mother had. - in Georgia in the 1950's.

[piedmont]

32. Great! I'm kinda surprised it's not done that way everywhere. nt

[colinmom71]

41. Because most states classify their legal records of birth...

As records of Live Birth. A certificate of Live Birth essentially shows that a baby has been born alive and thus is a legal entity (person) deserving of equal legal rights as other persons at that stage of development. If the baby dies before birth and is unable to be resucitated, they simply do not qualify for being legally labeled a Live Birth.

The Death Certifiicate requires info such as cause of death, age, etc. which pretty much fully describes who the deceased was. Anyone researching records would easily be able to discern that the deceased in this case was stillborn baby who was not born alive and was therefore never able to be a legally recognized person of legal record. A stillborn baby was never alive and capable of being regarded as a legal person. The death certificate is just legal recognition of that fact and grants the grieving parents the legal ability to have rights to dispose of the body as they see fit.

If anything, just having a death certificate protects the parents and the hospital staff from any potential legal investigations as to whether the baby's death could be investigated as "unnatural" (homicide). I feel terrible for these parents, but they're making a big deal out of what really is just one legal document. Just because their baby didn't qualify for a certificate of live birth doesn't make their tragedy any less, nor does it negate the hopes and dreams they had before the stillbirth.