Shipping container houses.

[chaska]

I have a question for you (before this goes off on its various tangents): Are steel shipping containers compatible with underground housing? Can I build a shipping container house and add earth berms around the outside of it? Or will rust problems prevent this? Anybody have any idea about this?

I love this house (yes, those are shipping containers)!




But what I was actually thinking of building (at some point) is more like this:


but with only two 20 foot containers. I was also thinking of putting it two feet into the ground and adding earth berms and a flat earthen roof. Goodbye to utility bills with that arrangement.

BTW, if you're not hip to peak oil, it would behoove ye to get hip.

[lectrobyte]

1. I'd think as long as you took normal waterproofing precautions, rust would

not be an issue with earthen berms around one of those.

[madokie]

7. due to having to withstand the rigors and salt of the ocean they are pretty durable

structual as well as rust. a good coat of tar and they would last a lifetime methinks.

[Sherman A1]

2. I think I saw a piece on underground shipping container living

a year or so ago... Not any idea where it was... Google is your friend!

Good Luck....

[Occulus]

3. interesting

Is that a roll-up door on the living room and the kitchen?

It's an interesting concept, and I imagine they're pretty storm-resistant. I don't know if I like the huge honkin' window ro not, though.

I mean, really. That window is a bit... um... overkill. Now, if you split it into thirds, maybe....

[madokie]

13. to that I would say, to each his own

its yours have it any way you want ;-)

[uncle ray]

22. the window

i suspect the idea behind the glass, is to use the shape/texture of the shipping containers along with the glass, to create a Midcentury Modern look, instead of looking like shipping containers.

there's no reason you couldn't make a more traditional wall in place of the glass.

[madokie]

4. My brother moved back here to oklahoma a few years ago from the left coast

and he shipped all his possessions in two 40 ft shipping containers and now they are part of his shop. He placed them 30 feet apart, poured a concrete floor added two ends and a roof and now he has one hell of a shop with storage on both sides, varmin proof too. I think you have a good idea, go with it.

[chaska]

11. Yeah, that's basically what I'm aiming for...

Super cheap building technique. You can buy a shipping container for around $2000. And you don't need any structure, the shipping container IS the structure. Just put down a floor and slap of a roof and you're pretty much good to go.

[madokie]

19. we are here in tornado alley so if a person was to berm it up somewhat

you would have a perfect storm cellar too. I think you have a great idea

[chaska]

Bob Villa did a show (or series of shows?) on container housing....

I haven't seen them, but I do recall reading that they make a big deal about anchoring them to the foundation for that reason.

[karlrschneider]

33. Is that near you? I'd love to have a look at it...

:D

[madokie]

37. yes it is and yes we can go see it whenever you want, just pm me

and we'll set up a time and go do that. He lives 11 miles east of chouteau, in Locust Grove. I'm home most days.

[piedmont]

45. Would y'all take photos and post them here?

I'd really like to see that.

[madokie]

52. Sure will.

hopefully in the next day or two.

[piedmont]

53. Great, thanks!

[Kingshakabobo]

55. Please link in the DIY forum. If you don't mind.

:hi:

[madokie]

58. don't hesitate to pm me and remind me ok

I think its a good idea. I have some other things to post there too as soon as I take the pics. if you're anywhere close come by and have a look see yourself, my bro' would enjoy the visit and I promise you you would.

[karlrschneider]

64. Thanks!!

ks

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Some sites for you

http://www.shipping-container-housing.com/shipping-container-houses.html
Above link has this link:
http://www.gbs-gpc.com/
The gpc stands for Global Peace Containers...sounds interesting.

and this has many links:
http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/containerbayhome.htm

[chaska]

25. Thanks. I haven't seen some of that.

[formercia]

6. Brush on a thick coat of phosphoric acid

it will passivate the steel. About 22 years ago, I bought a new muffler for my VW Camper. I brushed on a thick coat of phosphoric acid and the thing still hasn't rotted out.

[madokie]

9. passivate, thats a new one on me.

merriam webster

1 : to make inactive or less reactive <passivate the surface of steel by chemical treatment>
2 : to protect (as a solid-state device) against contamination by coating or surface treatment

[formercia]

23. Parkerizing

is a form of passivation. Iron Phosphate that forms on the surface keeps the steel underneath from reacting with oxygen.

it's also has a very low toxicity to humans, but apparenty not for mussels:

Iron(III) phosphate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Iron(III) phosphate, also ferric orthophosphate, or ferric phosphate, FePO4, is a phosphate of iron. It is one of the few molluscicides approved for use in organic farming.

I wonder how well it works on slugs and snails.


du doesn't like the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_phosphate

[madokie]

27. ...

[formercia]

30. I bet you've seen a lot of Parkerized items in your travels.

:)

[madokie]

38. prolly have, just not smart enough to know it.

[formercia]

41. That grey dull coating on steel military items

That's Parkerizing or something equivalent.

[madokie]

59. cool

[appal_jack]

66. Sluggo...

Sluggo is an OMRI-listed (i.e.- organically approved) slug killer that is iron phosphate based. I've never used it myself, but I've been told it works well, until the next rainfall...

-app

[formercia]

69. It won't harm the plants

when it breaks down, it provides nutrition to the plants. It's cheap and easy to make. Mix a solution of iron sulphate with phosphphoric acid. The iron phosphate precipitates out and leaves a solution of sulphuric acid that can be neutralized with baking soda. Filter, wash and dry.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

43. The things you learn on DU

Thanks for the great information.

[formercia]

51. You're very welcome. n/t

:)

[HereSince1628]

8. Seems to me rust is gonna be an issue, also you've got to meet

the minimum square foot requirements of your local and state building code. In southern Wisconsin the powers that be work HARD to prevent the construction of "cottages."

[Rosemary2205]

10. My husband the contractor says

you will have the check the codes where you live for underground construction because every climate has a different requirement.

[chaska]

16. Yeah, I'm aware. I think my neighborhood is ratty enough to go for it...

If not, I'll move to a rattier one. ;)

[Rosemary2205]

28. That's not quite what he meant.

he's saying the requirements for safely building underground change depending on the soil composition and climate where you live.

[chaska]

29. Oh, gotcha. I'll look into it when the time comes.

[snooper2]

12. I think you should stay away from living in a shipping container..

Try a monolithic dome instead...

http://www.monolithic.com/

[chaska]

14. I think domes should be the only allowed housing in coastal areas...

Don't have to worry about hurricanes with them bad boys.

[shraby]

15. Those are 20 foot in length, how wide

and how tall are they? I've never seen the full dimensions.

[chaska]

18. Shipping containers come in 20 and 40 foot lengths....

Basically, they're 20x8x8, or 40x8x8. The top house is made from 40s up top and below those are containers that have been cut in half and stood on end.

[conscious evolution]

17. From my experience with using conex boxes

is that you need good drainage around and under them.
I use them as portable offices and workshops in the construction industry.On a few jobsites I have had to set them in less than ideal locations.Water has definitely caused damage to them.Mainly rotting and mildewing of the floor boards but some have had structural damage due to rust.
That said,I have to say that with good drainage you should not have too much trouble.I would also lay on some thick paint or other waterproofing before you bury one.

One other thing-Instead of using earth to cover it use solar panels instead.

[chaska]

20. I've just read about a new kind of solar panel....

That will be one-tenth the cost of conventional panels. It is supposed to hit the market in a couple of years.

...maybe I can find a link.

I have very sandy soil on my lot. I think it will drain fine. I will of course do a great deal more research on all of this before I do anything.

[chaska]

21. Ah, hear it is.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/06/new-zealand-peeps-imitate-plants-to-do-solar-on-the-cheap/

[conscious evolution]

24. Post photos when you build it.

I am looking for a peice of property to do the same thing myself.Since I live in an urban area I would like to find a place between a residential and rail or industrial area so that it sort of blends in.Unfortunayely even tiny pieces of property are outragously expensive.
One bad thing about using them for houses is that they tend to freak out the nieghbors when you try to build one in a typical residential area.HomeOwners Associations absolutely spaz out at the thought of them.

[chaska]

32. Yeah, people are extremely conservative when it comes to house designs....

I like modern, industrial, avant garde even.

Actually, these two houses were designed by Adam Kalkin, who is a bit of an architectural design darling/bad boy/artiste type. He's "hot", as they say in business lingo.

These are starting to come into vogue because of environmenal and egalitarian (housing for all) reasons. Katrina has caused a design explosion, involving shipping containers in many cases.

[chaska]

35. Oh, without a doubt.

My neighborhood is mostly trailers, so I think I'd have no problems. But I don't know if I want to live here forever. I may want to get farther outside the city before I build. I don't know if I'll ever be able to sell this place though, especially what with the housing bubble stuff going on right now.

[KamaAina]

26. Why aren't they building these in NOLA?

If there's one thing South Louisiana has plenty of, it's shipping containers. You would hardly even need the fancy designs, as the basic long, thin shape is similar to that of the city's ubiquitous "shotgun" houses.

[chaska]

34. Actually, NOLA was the catalyst for much of this... (PIC BELOW)

Here's an emergency shelter by the same architect as in the OP:

[Gregorian]

31. If building underground, keep this in mind.

I grew up with a fantastic architect for a neighbor. Back in the 70's he built an underground house. When I was older I was fortunate enough to have a chance to work on that very house. I've even got a photo of it somewhere.

The thing people may not realize is that there is water pressure down there. That house had all of the sheetrock rotting and falling down because of it. A complete water barrier must be applied before backfilling the structure. It's like a flat roof, except vertical.

With a steel container, it wouldn't take more than a short period of time before steel was perforated with holes from rust. I don't know what "short" means. Ten years?

A singleply system might be as expensive as the container itself.

I'm not even sure what the advantage of the container would be. It's much more difficult to work with. Highly conductive for heat loss and gain.

I love the idea, but it's not a simple as it may seem.

[chaska]

39. Thanks....

I'm going to save this thread for future reference, and I'll look into all of this, and weigh my options more thoroughly. But I had considered the heat loss/gain thing. That's part of the reasoning behind the berm deal. I also had in mind to completely shade the steel with an extra wide roof.

As far as the underground thing, I was only thinking of going down a couple feet, and then using 3-4 ft. berms. So 2-3 feet of the container would be completely above ground and two feet would be completely below ground, the rest bermed. My soil is very sandy, so I shouldn't have huge problems with water. It drains very well.

I am aware too, that these things would need to be insulated, and that in order to insulate you need something to attach the insulation to, which could mean having to build a 2x4 frame inside the container. And that would sort of negate much of the reason for using it in the first place.

That said, I have heard about a spray on insulating product - that's all I know about it though.

[conscious evolution]

44. Highly conductive for heat loss and gain.

Absolutely right.
To make a conex habitable requires the inside be framed and sheetrocked along with an HVAC system.Also,the top must be covered or shaded.
Beleive me.I have spent a lot of time in conex buildings.They get hotter than hell in the summer and cold as a well diggers ass in winter without heat and air conditioning.

[piedmont]

36. How much does a shipping container cost?

I would imagine they're not that cheap. $3-8,000?

[chaska]

40. $2000 - a little less for 20 footers, a little more for 40 footers...

a couple hundred either way.

[piedmont]

42. Is that for a new, good condition one? Or one with lots of wear? nt

[chaska]

47. They're only available used (as far as I know)...

There are companies that sell them and I imagine they gurantee them to be leakproof, etc. If not, you could inspect for such things yourself.

I would bet that you could go to one of these dealers and pick your favorite. You could then hire someone to paint it, or whatever you wanted to do with it.

If you wanted a new one you could probably get one from China. That's where they mostly come from. They ship goods in them to us, but we don't ship them back since we no longer make anything in this country. So they just pile up. It's a rather big problem actually. That's a big part of this, the recycle/reuse thing.

[conscious evolution]

46. Even cheaper in a port city.

I have paid as little as $800 for a 40' conntainer.
In many port cities there are yards full of empty containers that they do not know what to do with.Seems that with the trade imbalances this country has there are many more containers coming into the country than there are going out.So they end up in huge stacks sitting there doing nothing but rusting away.

[chaska]

49. Wow, that IS cheap!

see the post above yours.

[madokie]

61. my brother bought two out in San Fransico and he paid 1100 bucks for one

and something like 1800 for the other. he told me how much he paid to have them delivered to here in ne oklahoma but i don't remember what it was exactly but it was only a few hundred for the both of them. and they were packed full too. two boats, a jeep, lincoln welder and on and on, lots of tools. one he purchased about 8 years ago and the other a year later

[Sapere aude]

48. eyesore n/t

[chaska]

50. So I can put you down for 2 then? LOL!

:)

[Sapere aude]

56. My neighbors have a bunch of orange containers on there property and I live in a remote

mountain area. I can see the mountains over their orange containers, great view.

[conscious evolution]

54. There is definitely potential for that

Done up right though and they become works of art.

[Lars39]

57. Is there any way to determine if they had once carried hazardous waste in 'em?

[chaska]

62. I may be wrong, but I doubt that would be much of an issue...

I don't think any MAJOR hazards are shipped in containers. Again, I don't KNOW that. And any HM would be shipped in it's own whatever-proof container inside the shipping container. I mean, they wouldn't just fill a shipping container with krytonite, they'd put it in a lead box first.

[Lisa]

63. you could just rub some swabs on the inside and take them to a lab

They could check for the presence of heavy metals, organochlorines, etc. -- shouldn't be too expensive (the same places that test garden soil).

[Breeze54]

60. I've loved the idea since I saw Bob Vila's show about it!

Strong, Affordable Storm-Ready Housing Project

Finishing a Container-Built Home

This new, neat, affordable, and hurricane-ready home
prepares to welcome its first-time homeowners.

http://www.bobvila.com/BVTV/Bob_Vila/Episode-0226.html

-------------------------

Converting Steel Shipping Containers

http://www.bobvila.com/BVTV/Bob_Vila/Video-0201-03-1.html

Bob talks about the vast number of steel shipping containers abandoned in America's ports. Because America is no longer an exporting nation, only an importing nation, it is too expensive to return the 700,000 containers clogging American ports. Tampa Armature Works (TAW) converts these containers to intermodal steel building units (ISBU's) for use by the military and as durable, affordable installations throughout the world. David Cross of TAW explains how they have developed a skeletal frame system that brings the container down to its most elemental structural elements from which anything can be built. Cross shows Bob "the world's largest toolbox," which is an ISBU converted into a series of bins, cargo holds, and roll doors that can organize, store, and protect all kinds of tools, gear, and equipment in a military setting. Once modified, these containers are perfect as storm-ready housing units, with corrugated sides, a bottom steel channel and flat-bar toprail functioning together like a steel I-beam. Inside, 1 1/8-inch marine-grade Apitone flooring is a huge and standard benefit in every ISBU. TAW can cut the openings for doors and windows, finish the exterior with heavy gauge steel, wrap it in a sheet-metal skin, spray it with SuperTherm insulative ceramic coating, and deliver it for $40 to $45 per square foot. The foundation and roof are then supplied on site by the contractor. With 17 million of these containers in circulation world-wide, this is a salvage, recycling, and green business initiative that can create heavy-gauge steel, hurricane-resistant housing fast and for about the same dollars as a light-gauge steel home. Cross and TAW are just looking for consumers willing to jump on board with the technology and opportunities ISBU's present.

-------------------------------------

There are floor plans and a lot of information and video's on Vila's website too!

Site Clearing, Footings and Stem-Wall Foundation
Facing and Insulating the Steel Building Unit
Floorplans and Layout of the Container House
Converting Shipping Containers for Housing
Structural Insulated Panels
Solar Power, Water & Heat
etc....

[KatyaR]

65. This link might give you some suggestions.

http://www.globalportablebuildings.com/

The designs are somewhat similar.

[OxQQme]

67. My Uncle AL

built his house back about forty years ago using a box car and a passenger car that he bought real cheap. He set them side by side and covered them with a trussed roof on poles.
Last I saw of that house was ten years ago when they sold it and moved out.
Uncle Al said he always wanted a caboose attached too.
Sweet house. It was up on blocks of concrete though and not subjected to the same environment of a bermed unit.

[burythehatchet]

68. I've done a lot of research on it

and plan on doing exactly that. There was a show some time ago about a British company that had started converting old boxes into living spaces. My goal is tho bury two side by side and stack two on top.

[LibertyLover]

70. I'm not sure about underground

but a year or so ago I was watching a program on unique houses on HGTV and they did a segment on a home in New Zealand made out of shipping containers. IIRC it was 3 ro 4 stacked on top of each other with an outside stairway connecting them. Apparently very cosy and fuel efficient. Good luck.