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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
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Joanne98
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:19 PM Original message |
Are the "right to carry" laws out of control? |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:22 PM Response to Original message |
1. Mr. Lira is not only 17 years younger than Mr. Schmidt, he weighs twice as much |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #1 |
6. Hopefully, Mr. Lira has or will get some jail time. |
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SteppingRazor
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
2. I'm a believer in CCW, but I do think this goes too far. n/t |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
3. Don't punch a guy who has a gun lest you make his day better. |
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fascisthunter
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:25 PM Response to Original message |
4. way out of control... and this "Castle Law" is BS |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #4 |
14. A 150-pound man who uses a weapon after being punched by a 300-pound man is a coward? |
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galileoreloaded
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #14 |
44. You must understand that for many, violence has never visited them... |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. I had mine at age 15, and have been mostly successful at avoiding it since then |
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fascisthunter
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:30 PM Response to Reply #44 |
70. uh yuh... don't pretend to know if I had the shit kicked out of me or not |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:12 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. Ok tough guy. |
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proteus_lives
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:12 AM Response to Reply #70 |
115. Wow you're hardcore. |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:49 AM Response to Reply #70 |
139. I didn't know Boston was such a shithole |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:19 PM Response to Reply #14 |
53. I've been attacked by a guy twice my size. I survived just fine. |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #53 |
61. You did once, therefore anyone should be able to do the same every time |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:26 PM Response to Reply #61 |
69. I'm saying what I'm saying - while YOU are saying 'be afraid' |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:13 PM Response to Reply #69 |
75. I missed the part where he said, "be afraid" can you show me the quote. |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:41 AM Response to Reply #69 |
137. Please point out where I suggested that anyone should "be afraid" |
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backwoodsbob
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:36 PM Response to Reply #4 |
73. I have a buddy who does the UFC type thing |
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ThomWV
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:27 PM Response to Original message |
5. I do not think anyone has a duty to flee |
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creeksneakers2
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Sat Aug-15-09 05:50 PM Response to Reply #5 |
166. If you have an option to flee |
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quiller4
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Sat Aug-15-09 07:02 PM Response to Reply #5 |
169. No duty to flee and a right to defend. I have no problem with so-called castle laws. |
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Joe Fields
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:43 PM Response to Original message |
7. Per your question: In Missouri, the voters voted down Conceal Carry twice, |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. I thought that the margin in the '99 vote was about 4%? |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:55 PM Response to Reply #7 |
39. Proposition 8 |
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Joanne98
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:45 PM Response to Original message |
8. I don't want conservatives carrying guns around me. |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #8 |
45. You probably need to stay away from cops then. |
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Joanne98
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #45 |
51. I all ready do. But that's about to change after all the conservatives are FIRED |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:09 PM Response to Reply #51 |
84. Is that going to be on the 20th or 21st of never? I need to mark my calender. n/t |
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Javaman
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:49 PM Response to Original message |
9. Don't bring a fist to a gun fight. nt |
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Name removed
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:25 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. Deleted message |
slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:27 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Mr. Schmidt did not intend to get into a fight |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:34 PM Response to Reply #16 |
24. So a woman who shoots an male attacker would be a coward? |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:20 PM Response to Reply #24 |
54. Strawman. That has nothing to do with THIS incident under discussioin. nt |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:37 PM Response to Reply #54 |
59. However, you are ignoring the implications of what you are saying |
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Pavulon
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #16 |
42. All due respect, but this is not high school |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:12 PM Response to Reply #42 |
50. With all due respect, Schmidt is NOT Eve Carson. Strawman. |
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Viper Mad
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:57 AM Response to Reply #50 |
152. My 90 pound neighbor lady works at the local WM loading dock. |
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Pavulon
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Sat Aug-15-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #50 |
164. I have zero interest in a fight. |
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sharesunited
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Fri Aug-14-09 01:57 PM Response to Original message |
10. Leaves life and death up to subjective and emotional decisionmaking. Bad public policy. |
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JonQ
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Of course not allowing firearms doesn't remove |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #10 |
19. Isn't that the way it usually is? |
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Edweird
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:34 PM Response to Reply #10 |
23. "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the FELONS?!?!?!" |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:38 PM Response to Reply #10 |
27. There is a good reason that handguns are sometimes called "equalizers" |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #27 |
36. It is fair.... |
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sharesunited
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Fri Aug-14-09 06:45 PM Response to Reply #27 |
81. Check the penal code in your own state. Simple assault is not a capital offense. |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 06:55 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Intent. |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:11 PM Response to Reply #81 |
105. Does every case of simple assault end there? Do some escalate to fatal levels? |
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sharesunited
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:07 AM Response to Reply #105 |
113. Fatalities are assured if there is no duty to retreat and it's open season to shoot. |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:10 AM Response to Reply #113 |
114. Who died in the case cited in the OP? |
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sharesunited
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:22 AM Response to Reply #114 |
119. No one. The bullet grazed his head instead of punching a hole in his skull and wounding his brain. |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:22 AM Response to Reply #119 |
121. So not really assured? |
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sharesunited
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:28 AM Response to Reply #121 |
123. Not in every case. But eventually, inevitably, and with the blessing of the legislature. |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:45 AM Response to Reply #81 |
138. No, but it can be sufficient cause to justify use of deadly force by the victim |
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winyanstaz
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:22 PM Response to Original message |
12. Write us again after some punk beats you in the face for a while.... |
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madeline_con
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Fri Aug-14-09 08:28 PM Response to Reply #12 |
92. Fuckin' A! Good points!!! |
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fascisthunter
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Sat Aug-15-09 08:43 AM Response to Reply #12 |
145. so if someone punches ya, you should be able to kill them? |
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Pavulon
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Sat Aug-15-09 04:45 PM Response to Reply #145 |
165. Once , nope. |
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JonQ
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:24 PM Response to Original message |
15. He shouldn't have started the fight |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:28 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. How about break his nose? |
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JonQ
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:31 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. The attacker was younger and bigger |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:35 PM Response to Reply #18 |
25. If the victim is unable to.... |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:14 PM Response to Reply #18 |
107. What about for those physically unable to do so? |
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FLyellowdog
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:36 PM Response to Reply #15 |
26. He could have held the guy at gunpoint while he or someone else called the police. |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. How do you know that he didn't attempt to stop the fight without firing the gun? |
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FLyellowdog
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #28 |
37. Just giving my point of view to JonQ's question... |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:41 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Good way to get the weapon taken away |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #26 |
33. Don't pull your gun unless your going to use it. |
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JonQ
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #26 |
35. Yes he could have |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:01 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. I believe aiming at someone shows intent to kill. |
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JonQ
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:49 PM Response to Reply #41 |
62. Yep |
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Statistical
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Sat Aug-15-09 01:31 AM Response to Reply #41 |
128. Minor point but.... aiming is construed as intent to use lethal force not to kill. |
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guitar man
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #26 |
43. nope |
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Tim01
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:32 PM Response to Original message |
21. I think it was a fair shoot. |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
22. Two rules.... Don't punch someone who has a gun. |
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Tim01
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:42 PM Response to Reply #22 |
30. And don't punch old guys. We all know why. |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:58 PM Response to Reply #30 |
40. Obama's Death Panel is pretty rough on old folks |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #30 |
52. 49 is NOT an 'old guy'. |
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Tim01
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:28 PM Response to Reply #52 |
56. I am quite a bit less than 49. |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:40 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. I'm 50 and it tires me out just thinking about fighting someone |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:21 PM Response to Reply #56 |
68. And I am quite a bit older than 49 |
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Tim01
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:04 PM Response to Reply #68 |
101. There is a very long list of victims with your attitude. |
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spin
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:15 PM Response to Reply #30 |
66. Never start a fight with an old man, he may just kill you. |
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krispos42
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:43 PM Response to Original message |
31. This isn't a competition, it's self-defense |
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slackmaster
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:46 PM Response to Original message |
32. This thread brought out plenty of Chairborne Rangers, Couch Commandos, and Wheelchair Generals |
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RaleighNCDUer
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:24 PM Response to Reply #32 |
55. Of whom you are CIC. nt |
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old mark
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:49 PM Response to Original message |
34. Mr. Lira - the shootee - should be in prison for assault. My Schmidt |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 02:54 PM Response to Original message |
38. Schmidt was stupid. A .25 is way too small to dispatch a dangerous bully. |
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guitar man
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #38 |
57. lol |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:54 PM Response to Reply #57 |
63. Me too...they penetrate better |
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spin
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:28 PM Response to Reply #63 |
109. My daughter likes .22 mag in a snub nosed revolver... |
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Mugu
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:43 PM Response to Reply #109 |
111. The .22 mag. in a short barrelled weapon has an amazing bark. n/t |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:03 AM Response to Reply #111 |
131. i agree. If nothing else it would scare the hell out of an attacker... |
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boppers
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Fri Aug-14-09 10:01 PM Response to Reply #38 |
96. You're assuming lethality or knockdown is the point. |
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armyowalgreens
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:55 AM Response to Reply #96 |
141. The point is not to scare the enemy. It's to eliminate the threat... |
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boppers
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Sat Aug-15-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #141 |
157. I think I see your point. |
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X_Digger
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:04 PM Response to Original message |
46. Size / Age difference = disparate force |
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jmg257
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
48. What would "most prosecuters" charge Lira with anyway? Assault I assume. Still seems easy enough. |
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Kaleva
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
49. A rec from me even though I disagree with OPs view |
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silverback
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Fri Aug-14-09 03:32 PM Response to Original message |
58. The most dangerous places in the US... |
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JerseygirlCT
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:04 PM Response to Original message |
64. I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't think Schmidt ought to be locked |
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Tim01
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:12 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. You are OK with getting beat because you are not big. |
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JerseygirlCT
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:17 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. I'm not ok with getting beat |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:06 AM Response to Reply #67 |
132. Of course you understand... |
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armyowalgreens
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Sat Aug-15-09 07:04 AM Response to Reply #67 |
142. Moral of the story: Don't physically assault someone... |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:15 PM Response to Reply #64 |
76. If you were in a fist fight with a man younger and 2x as heavy as you, would you ever use a weapon? |
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JerseygirlCT
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:10 PM Response to Reply #76 |
85. No, I'd be running like hell |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:17 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. So 100% of assaults are provoked? Does that apply to sexual assaults also? |
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JerseygirlCT
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Fri Aug-14-09 08:22 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. The guy started an argument |
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Mugu
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Fri Aug-14-09 09:15 PM Response to Reply #89 |
93. Last year we had yet another one punch fight that resulted in one in the morgue |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 09:52 PM Response to Reply #89 |
94. Where to start? How about your words.... |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:03 PM Response to Reply #89 |
100. If I disagree with someone about something and they punch me did I start an argument? |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:52 AM Response to Reply #85 |
140. What if you were not capable of running faster than your attacker |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:13 AM Response to Reply #76 |
133. I would... |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:16 PM Response to Reply #64 |
78. So a woman answers her husbands angry fists with a firearm, you vote to convict her right? |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:22 PM Response to Reply #64 |
80. You're right. Anybody who is assaulted should just take it like a girl. Or a man. |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:15 PM Response to Reply #64 |
86. Thankfully that isn't your call to make. |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:00 PM Response to Reply #64 |
99. Too many people in this world as is... |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 07:19 AM Response to Reply #64 |
144. Another amateur Internet psychologist making a broad-brush judgement on everyone who disagrees |
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aikoaiko
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:34 PM Response to Original message |
71. No, right to carry laws are not out control.... |
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-..__...
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Fri Aug-14-09 04:35 PM Response to Original message |
72. CCW laws are out of control... |
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Viper Mad
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:15 PM Response to Reply #72 |
77. Should be covered by the Constitution's 'full faith and credit' clause, as for same sex marriage |
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depakid
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:05 PM Response to Reply #77 |
102. Yep- that's brilliant. Lower the levels down to the lowest common denominator |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:07 PM Response to Reply #72 |
83. "may issue" = "may infringe" |
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spin
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:37 PM Response to Reply #83 |
110. I totally agree... |
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boppers
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #72 |
159. From a "may issue" state: |
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crazy_vanilla
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Fri Aug-14-09 05:18 PM Response to Original message |
79. that surely makes me feel safe |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 07:19 PM Response to Reply #79 |
88. Yup because this guy shot 1 or 2 Walmart shoppers every day... |
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crazy_vanilla
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Fri Aug-14-09 08:25 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. no, but thanks for enlightening me on the issue |
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Statistical
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Fri Aug-14-09 09:54 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. Well about 5% of the population has a CCW in some "shall issue" states. |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:07 PM Response to Reply #90 |
103. Chances are that you encounter people everyday carrying weapons... |
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madeline_con
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Fri Aug-14-09 08:27 PM Response to Original message |
91. The headline is bullshit. |
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depakid
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Fri Aug-14-09 10:07 PM Response to Original message |
97. Gun proliferation perios is out of control in America |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:09 PM Response to Reply #97 |
104. What is perios? |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:13 PM Response to Reply #97 |
106. What price is that? |
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depakid
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:34 AM Response to Reply #106 |
125. Look at your homicide and violent crime rates |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Sat Aug-15-09 01:44 AM Response to Reply #125 |
129. The war on drugs is more responsible for that... |
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spin
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:48 PM Response to Reply #97 |
112. Exactly, Florida for example is extremely dangerous since concealed carry |
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depakid
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:35 AM Response to Reply #112 |
126. Florida is EXACTLY the sort of state that no one in their right mind would emulate |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 01:56 AM Response to Reply #126 |
130. And your logic is? |
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depakid
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Sat Aug-15-09 03:20 AM Response to Reply #130 |
134. My logic is the bizarre stoies coming out of the state and the way that it's government |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:34 AM Response to Reply #134 |
147. It is hard to argue about how the government is run in Florida... |
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Viper Mad
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Sat Aug-15-09 11:01 AM Response to Reply #134 |
154. The tragic part is that you probably actually believe that crap. |
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Jack_DeLeon
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Fri Aug-14-09 10:48 PM Response to Original message |
98. Nope. |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Aug-14-09 11:15 PM Response to Original message |
108. Sounds like a righteous shoot to me. |
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proteus_lives
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:16 AM Response to Reply #108 |
116. You may be too late in the thread to be jumped on. |
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:17 AM Response to Reply #116 |
117. I'm sure the people I want to see it will come across it. |
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proteus_lives
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:19 AM Response to Original message |
118. No they're not. |
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verdalaven
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:22 AM Response to Original message |
120. We're turning into the Wild, Wild West |
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cali
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Sat Aug-15-09 03:54 AM Response to Reply #120 |
135. Vermont has the most lax gun laws in the entire nation. and one of the very lowest rates of gun |
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TexasObserver
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:23 AM Response to Original message |
122. Yes. |
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pyoom
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:29 AM Response to Original message |
124. nt |
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spin
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Sat Aug-15-09 12:47 AM Response to Original message |
127. Yes, it would have been far better if the older and smaller guy... |
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TransitJohn
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Sat Aug-15-09 04:34 AM Response to Original message |
136. This is awesome |
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armyowalgreens
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Sat Aug-15-09 07:09 AM Response to Original message |
143. Don't assault someone, and you won't be shot. |
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Ikonoklast
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Sat Aug-15-09 09:11 AM Response to Original message |
146. Why did he carry at his place of employment, WalMart? |
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havocmom
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:41 AM Response to Reply #146 |
148. They probably have a policy about assault too, but failed to protect a worker from another |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #146 |
150. Yes, he probably lost his job but got to keep his life and his body intact |
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Ikonoklast
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:58 AM Response to Reply #150 |
153. He should have retreated, and saved both his life and job. |
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X_Digger
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Sat Aug-15-09 11:18 AM Response to Reply #153 |
155. "had the issue turned over to a prosecutor."? |
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Ikonoklast
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Sat Aug-15-09 11:41 AM Response to Reply #155 |
156. I guess it would depend on the jurisdiction. |
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X_Digger
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:02 PM Response to Reply #156 |
158. True, I'm speaking of Texas & other states whose laws I know.. |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 04:32 PM Response to Reply #153 |
162. You don't really know whether or not a retreat was possible in that situation. |
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ensho
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:45 AM Response to Original message |
149. cops and security people are the only ones that need to carry guns |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #149 |
151. So, you must be OK with people getting beaten up by bigger, stronger, younger people |
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Curtland1015
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Sat Aug-15-09 02:12 PM Response to Reply #151 |
160. What "getting beat up"? He was punched ONCE. |
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beevul
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Sat Aug-15-09 03:53 PM Response to Reply #160 |
161. Thats a mighty large assumption... |
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Curtland1015
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:37 PM Response to Reply #161 |
167. How does your "fail" not ruin the other side of the argument too? |
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beevul
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Sat Aug-15-09 06:56 PM Response to Reply #167 |
168. Its really simple. |
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slackmaster
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Sat Aug-15-09 04:36 PM Response to Reply #160 |
163. To quote one of my personal heroes who never actually lived and another one who is alive... |
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napi21
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Sat Aug-15-09 07:13 PM Response to Original message |
170. I haven't read EVERY case of use of force, but my guess is |
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