Catholic priest during his homily today called Ted Kennedy "not a good Catholic"

[begin_within]

I don't go to church of my own accord any more. But my Mom is 90 and in a wheelchair and very devout, so I take her and sit with her for her sake. Today the (roughly 70 or 75 year old) priest started out his sermon with about 5 minutes of denouncing Ted Kennedy as "not a good Catholic" and "honoring his principles but not his faith," specifically regarding his support of abortion rights. He went on to expound on how each of us listening to this must honor not only our worldly principles but must honor our faith and its teachings at the same time. When I take her next week I'm going to insert a note into the collection envelope (with no money) but I'm still deciding what that will say. Any suggestions?

[JanusAscending]

1. " Judge not, lest ye be judged"!

or...if the Pope can give Ted absolution, does he place himself higher than the Pope ??? P.S. you also could add..."He who is without sin, should cast the first stone"!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. The Pope seemed to think Kennedy was a pretty good Catholic,

considering he (Kennedy) got a letter from the Vatican that said:

"The Holy Father has read the letter which you entrusted to President Obama, who kindly presented it to him during their recent meeting. He was saddened to know of your illness, and asked me to assure you of his concern and his spiritual closeness. He is particularly grateful for your promise of prayers for him, for the needs of our universal church.

"His Holiness prays that in the days ahead, you may be sustained in faith and hope, and granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God, our merciful father. He invokes upon you the consolation and peace promised by the risen savior to all who share in his sufferings, and trust in his promise of eternal life.

"Commending you and the members of your family to the loving intervention of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Father cordially imparts his apostolic blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort, and strength in the Lord."

Not exactly a letter to an apostate, if you ask me. Maybe you could quote this letter, and ask the priest how many such letters he's gotten from the Pope lately.

[NotThisTime]

97. Agreed!

I'm certain there will be other priests that speak similarly and for every one I would quote the Pope's words

[ZombieHorde]

3. "not a good Catholic"

Sounds like a compliment to me. What kind of person would want to be a good Catholic?

[begin_within]

4. Well I think Ted wanted to.

[Sal Minella]

7. Not as much as he wanted to be a good Senator. Obviously.

[glinda]

10. Ted was both a good Senator and a good progressive Catholic.

[Sal Minella]

22. I agree with you, but I think the Pope perhaps would not.

I fear this particular Pope would consider "progressive Catholic" a woeful oxymoron.

For instance, the Pope is undertaking an investigation of American nuns at present -- the Pope apparently feels that American nuns have too much of a free hand in feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, and they should climb back into their black burqhas and show proper obeisance to their male superiors.

This nun investigation tour-de-force by the Vatican is going to get very interesting before it's over, methinks. I have a tremendous amount of respect for these nuns and for the work they do in society.

[LaydeeBug]

49. don't let your fear get the better of you. The Pope acknowledged this Good Catholic, the priest in

the OP is an asshead.

[Sal Minella]

63. You completely mis-read my use of the word "fear" but that's okay.

The Pope had his message written by an assistant. The Pope did not write his own letter himself.

He thus distanced himself from acknowledging Kennedy's accomplishments and treated Kennedy like a second-rate Catholic, in my opinion. That's my opinion.

Which is not the same as your opinion, but again, that's okay. I feel this Pope is determinedly leading his flock into the Thirteenth Century, and that's not okay, imo.

Here's a re-write of that first line:
"I believe this particular Pope would consider "progressive Catholic" a woeful oxymoron."

[glinda]

99. I know all that. I don't like Benedict. At all.

[LaydeeBug]

48. Not only did Ted WANT to be a good Catholic, he WAS a good Catholic.

I bet that priest had very little to say about the death penalty.

[ZombieHorde]

93. What makes you think such a thing? nt

[bobbolink]

5. An old priest who is not familiar with the concept of "judge not".

That's really sad.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when he meets his maker.

[saigon68]

6. He's probably impotent

And viagra won't work for him

[bobbolink]

13. Absolutely no connection. Doesn't even make any sense.

[csziggy]

8. Wouldn't that be between Ted Kennedy and his priest?

What does this priest know about the state of Teddy's soul? Did he know him personally and take his confessions? If not then how the hell can he make a declaration of how "good" Teddy's faith was? I'd say this priest is not a good Catholic when he is willing to make this kind of statement about a dead man who had a mass for him with a number of priests who knew him.

It is shit like this why I do not believe in any organized religion, especially any form of Christianity.

[Caliman73]

90. It isn't necessarily about his soul.

Catholics are called to lead lives of example, so while the state of his soul is a question that is none of our concern, the public practice of his faith is recorded. Most of us try, but fail, often to lead exemplary lives. The confusion is that there are so many facets to Catholicism that people focus on some aspects and leave others. I think we have an old school "fire and brimstone" priest in that church. I have experienced my share of those as well as priest who are more about the social justice and celebration of God's love. There is a split, even among the leaders of the Church about what makes a "good Catholic". Catholics have liberals and conservatives as well. Ratzenberger is one of the most conservative Cardinals before being elected Pope. He disagreed often with where John Paul II was taking the church even though John Paul was a moderate in most areas.

It is difficult to put up with priests who see faith as a set of shackles and a burden like this old guy seems to. I prefer to celebrate and work towards being good to others rather than live in fear of punishment.

[csziggy]

94. So all the years since the accident, Teddy's exempliary life means nothing?

To that priest?

I'd say that Teddy realized how wasteful a way he was leading his life and he got his shit together. I also think he probably tried to show all the children he helped to raise, his and his siblings, a better way to live. Yes there were some of the kids in the next generation who were hard partying people, but from news reports, very few of that large crowd of kids have been in trouble.

I just will never get the judgmental religionists - didn't Jesus preach not to judge others, but to leave that to God?

[Caliman73]

96. Nope. That lesson never seems to be learned by some.

The old priest is judging by a different, conservative, and very rigid standard. You are correct that Christ preached non-judgment but people do it anyway. Yet another human failing.

Some priests and other religious people see faith as a burden to be carried in hopes of receiving a reward. They are usually the ones who go around pointing out everyone's flaws. Others see it as a celebration and acceptance of love and a promise to look out for one another and do the best that you can to bee a good person. I think that was Ted Kennedy's vision. I guess we will find out when we die...or not. It won't matter either way to the dead.

[csziggy]

98. I guess those things are why I will never again be able to believe in a religion

With any kind of "leaders" who determine what is good for others. I've come close to being an atheist but not all the way.

What is sad to me is that most religions teach wonderful ideals which would make the world a better place - if the followers really lived that way. It's the leader who pervert them and screw things up.

[Cleita]

9. I think his Bishop will beg to disagree as I am sure Kennedy money has

filled Church coffers for about a century by now. Sounds like this old padre is ready for retirement.

[LaydeeBug]

51. money has nothing to do with it. Ted Kennedy knew that 'to whom much was given, much was expected'

If he was a bad Catholic, he would have been excommunicated. He was not. I am pro-choice. I belong to "catholics for a free choice". I have not been excommunicated.

[Sal Minella]

65. Yet.

[Cleita]

75. I haven't been to church for forty years and I haven't been excommunicated.

I did go to parochial schools with working class kids and Catholic boarding school with very rich kids. I learned at an early age that the rich are treated differently in the Church especially when they are generous donors. I worked in a Catholic hospital where a movie star, who had once aspired to be a nun, was always warmly welcomed even though she had married another divorced movie star outside of the Church. She was never excommunicated either. She and her husband were generous donors to Catholic charities. Yet, in the working class parochial school one of my classmates was expelled because her parents divorced. I'm not trying to belittle your church, but sometimes you have to take the rose colored glasses off. The Catholic Church is a flawed institution just like any others because it was founded and is run by human beings. It can not function without money anymore than any other human created institution. So when you are in that position it's really smart not to piss off your more generous donors. btw This wouldn't be a problem if the church had followed the teachings of Jesus Christ instead of the puritanical St. Paul.

Also, ask yourself this question. How come it's almost nearly impossible for an ordinary Catholic to get an annulment of their marriage, yet the Catholic princesses and other very wealthy and prominent Catholics seem to get them without too much hassle?

[brendan120678]

85. I believe, according to Catholic law and all that...

if you support abortion rights, you automatically excommunicate yourself. Nothing else has to be done. You don't get a letter from the Bishop or the Pope.

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. Guilty of bad taste and bad timing, among other things.

Can they get any more obtuse?

[Ferret Annica]

12. Give him a bill

for making you have to listen to that. I would.

[imdjh]

14. Print neatly, "Fuck off you lying hypocritical bastard. You have a nerve...

.... even saying the name of a person who has made a real difference in the world. It's a wonder your stupid tongue doesn't burst into flames. You want to talk about being a good person? Disassociate yourself from that murdering jackass in the Vatican who tells people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, who wears gold trimmed clothing, and FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR VESTMENTS while telling others that they need to be generous and to help the poor. You God damned piece of shit, I can barely stand to look at you and you have the nerve to say that Ted Kennedy wasn't a good person? Fuck off."

Respectfully,

Joe Parishioner

[rug]

20. Or, you could have asked him to read today's Gospel again.

So the Pharisees and scribes questioned him,
“Why do your disciples not follow the tradition of the elders
but instead eat a meal with unclean hands?”
He responded,
“Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
This people honors me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines human precepts.
You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.”

He summoned the crowd again and said to them,
“Hear me, all of you, and understand.
Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person;
but the things that come out from within are what defile."

[Loki]

44. I heard the same one today.

[Mrs. Overall]

95. +1

[HughMoran]

15. I've been heard saying "bullshit!" under my breath

If they don't respect their parishioners, I see no reason to respect them.

[imdjh]

16. I have agreed not to start anything on Christmas Eve.

But I haven't been invited to attend church with my mother since the day that the priest praised George W Bush from the altar.

[HughMoran]

18. That would infuriate me

How dare they abuse an audience that is cowed into being polite 'fore they be shunned.

Shit like this is why I have a very dim view of churches, though many are not that bad in reality.

[aquart]

26. So he prefers people who torture and murders children after their born?

[ashling]

17. You mean you didn't walk out?

[merh]

19. Oh, so the priest thinks his opinion is better than the Pope's?

The priest just proved that it is the priest that is not a good Catholic.

[Stevenmarc]

21. Tell him you are diverting his collection cash to a Kennedy charity

[defendandprotect]

30. That's one that should work--!!!

[road2000]

77. Give it to the Special Olympics!

[kiranon]

89. Great idea. n/t

[OHdem10]

23. The Priest might be a little surprised when he gets to Heaven.

Judge not. This is probably some Republican Priest.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. Make it personal:

I'd write:

"What you said about Senator Kennedy on Sunday was a gratuitous slander of a man who got good wishes from the Holy Father. You are not one to judge. You should not speak ill of the dead, and you should be very ashamed of yourself, attacking a man no longer here to defend himself.

"He was upholding the law of the land, and politics is none of your business. The Church gets a tax break because it's supposed to stay out of politics. So stop breaking the law and start respecting it.

"Since you're so good at shooting off your mouth, I dare you to read this at next Sunday's Mass, and defend yourself. You cannot, because you are a coward. God looks at people like you with pain, wondering where He went wrong in His teaching. The fault, however, is yours, not His.

Shame on you."

[Leftist Agitator]

25. To paraphrase:

Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me.

I think it's in Matthew 25, actually I think it's Matthew 25:18, but don't quote me on that. It was the homily from Senator Kennedy's funeral, as I recall.

The whole spiel is excellent, though I suspect that its significance would be lost on the priest in question.

[SmileyRose]

27. This would be my note

Dear Father (whatshisname)

Your sermon last week regarding Ted Kennedy has affected me deeply. I grieve the loss of one I loved and respected. Whatever his failings may have been in this life, the time for condemnation has passed. When he was alive, those so moved by the spirit had an obligation to personally confront him with love and humility regarding serious sin for the sake of his eternal soul. Senator Ted Kennedy stands before the Lord now. Now it is our Lord's job to judge him, not yours or mine.

Considering your advanced years, it would not be unexpected for you to make the same journey home to the Lord in the relatively near future. For the sake of your eternal soul, I beg you to rid yourself of the false pride that would lead you take upon yourself what is reserved only for the Lord our God, and rest your mind instead upon the virtues of humility, charity, forgiveness and love.

Sincerely
Whatsyourname

[sabrina 1]

39. Very thoughful response and one he should be able to understand

I was going to say something similar, but you did it so well. I especially liked this:

I beg you to rid yourself of the false pride that would lead you take upon yourself what is reserved only for the Lord our God, and rest your mind instead upon the virtues of humility, charity, forgiveness and love.

He is wrong to put himself in God's place and attempt to know what is in someone else's heart. That is not his role as a priest. And it is not being a good Catholic or Christian.

I'd also like to know since he is willing to violate the law to involve himself in politics, has he ever spoken out about the slaughter in Iraq or the torture of other human beings? Some of his flock have supported and enabled those 'sins' by voting for them. Is he not worried about their souls?

[Beer Snob-50]

61. THIS IS A GREAT LETTER!!!!!

thank you for rising above the obligatory catholic bashing and giving an example of a repectable letter.

yes, the catholic church has it's faults, but it does much good in the world also.

[Sal Minella]

67. Individual Catholics do a great deal of good -- the nuns who serve

the less-fortunate, for instance.

But I think the Catholic Church, as an institution under this particular Pope, is doing inestimable harm -- denying the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS even among married couples, denying contraceptives to women who desperately need to limit family size, trying to limit good works done by groups of American nuns.

[Beer Snob-50]

72. I agree with you

We have to remember that these groups (the roman catholic church for instance) are run by human beings who unfortunatly have faults. Do we condemn the Democratic Party because our last president received bj's in the oval office? We have to look at the group as a whole and what they do. Catholics do much for the poor and unprevilged of the world. and yes, they do there fair share to f*** things up as well.

[Sal Minella]

66. Perfect! (imo) n/t

[fishwax]

71. nicely done n/t

[merh]

82. wow, that is worthy of a thread of it's own

I'd recommend it - I'm definitely bookmarking it (you never know when I have to attend a mass where a similar comment is made).

:thumbsup:

[Lifelong Protester]

28. some very thoughtful responses here, some a little blunt

me? I had to quit going to church sometime last June or so. I knew what was coming if Obama got close to winning, didn't want any more "pro-life" flyers stuck under my windshield, etc. The last straw was in 2004, when the "pro-life" group were out with flyers, asking us to vote for W, the man who condemned more people to death as Governor, and of course, as President. The ususal lifers only see the abortion issue, not the part where their party of choice, the Repubs, are sending people to die in an illegal war, or letting folks die in NOLA, or letting them die for lack of health care or affordable access to health care. You can't have it both way, folks.

Hence, I am now one of the unchurched.

[defendandprotect]

29. I'd be inclined to bet that Ted Kennedy was probably a better Catholic or person . . .

than this jerk of a priest -- !!!

[K8-EEE]

31. Tell him you were insulted by his comments

And that he is not God to judge. The religious right a couple of thousand years ago thought Jesus was a bad Jew and a blasphemer and he is acting just like them.

[K8-EEE]

32. Tell him you were insulted by his comments

And that he is not God to judge. The religious right a couple of thousand years ago thought Jesus was a bad Jew and a blasphemer and he is acting just like them.

[laughingliberal]

33. Ask him why

Why is it that the church feels it has a duty to speak out against lawmakers who support abortion rights but never seem to say much about the ones who support capital punishment.

[LiberalAndProud]

35. I suspect that has to do with the sacrament of baptism.

Just guessing.

[LiberalAndProud]

34. If this priest was not Ted Kennedy's confessor,

why would he have the authority to make a profession regarding his spiritual standing? I am not deeply familiar with the protocols of the Catholic church, but why wouldn't this be a breach?

I am appalled. Deeply.


I think Senator Kennedy worked to prevent abortions by making it possible for women to bear and rear the children conceived. I believe more than one fetus has been saved through Senator Kennedy's efforts. Criminalizing abortion will not end the practice, any more than criminalizing prostitution has been effective. God didn't create a perfect world, rather he granted us the freedom of choice, or so I've been told.

Disclaimer: Check Spelling crashes Explorer 8, so I'm not doin' it.

[pnwmom]

36. If that parish priest had to depend on good Catholics to support his parish,

he'd be out of a job.

No one is a good Catholic. One way or another, the vast majority fail.

[troubledamerican]

37. For examples of good Catholics, read "Hitler's Pope" by John Cornwell

[Hekate]

41. For a counterbalance of resistance, read my late uncle's book Hitler Youth and Catholic Youth

We already know that as a Polish priest, Pope John Paul II resisted the Nazi occupiers' attempts to indoctrinate the young people in his parish.

There was also resistance to indoctrination in Germany itself:
"In Hitler Youth and Catholic Youth 1933–36: A Study in Totalitarian Conquest, (Lawrence D. Walker) examined the worthy but ultimately futile struggle of the Catholic youth movement to preserve the rights it had been guaranteed in 1933 by Hitler’s concordat with the papacy." What was not futile was that youngsters who belonged to the Catholic Youth were better able to resist being morally overwhelmed into being absorbed by the Hitler Youth.

Subsequent to publication of the above book, "A research grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities allowed him in 1971–72 to begin research in Germany on the Catholic clergy’s response to Nazism. An early practitioner of quantitative history and prosopography, he utilized Gestapo records to ascertain which German and Austrian priests were most likely to oppose the Nazis. Contrary to expectations, it was not “young firebrands” but senior parish priests who spoke out."

The above quotes are from an obit earlier this year: http://www.historians.org/Perspectives/issues/2009/0904/0904mem5.cfm

As always with human beings, it's not ever always one thing.

Hekate

[Contrary1]

38. I used to be "a good Catholic".

I can tell you the exact moment that changed. I was on the parish council. During one of the meetings, the subject of giving came up. "Time, talent, treasure" the pastor announced was what everyone should give to the best of their ability.

I had no problem with that, but then he continued. He stated that if a serious accident were to happen right in front of the church that involved a parishioner who failed to give, he would have to debate whether or not he should go and minister to that person or persons.

I lost my religion that night, but never my faith.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".

A freeper post I read indicated that Ted Kennedy should burn in hell for eternity. They qualified their statement that they hoped God would forgive them if they were wrong in their assessment. So, in that poster's world, it's A-ok to judge another if the judgment turns out to be correct.

I don't recall that qualifier being part of the sermon. Maybe I slept in that Sunday.

[Hekate]

40. A copy of the Pope's letter to Teddy would be in order. Three things, actually...

A copy of the Sermon on the Mount and the passage about "what you do to the least of these you do to Me".

A copy of Ted's letter to the Pope. (regarding abortion, he assured the Pope that he would make sure there was a conscience clause for Catholic health care providers)

A copy of the Pope's letter to Ted.

That pretty much says it, in my opinion. You can tell your mother's priest for me that if he has any issues with this he can write the Pope and the 6 priests who concelebrated Kennedy's funeral mass.

Kennedy died in the arms of Mother Church, so to speak, having made his peace with God. As much time as he spent with that priest of his over the past months, I am sure he made all the confessions and received all the absolutions necessary.

All the best to you and your mom. You're being a good son to take her to mass and sit through a lecture like that.

Hekate

[Justice]

47. I agree with your recommendation.

[road2000]

79. I'm with Hekate on this.

How many "bad Catholics" have six priests and a Cardinal at their funeral Masses?

[snake in the grass]

42. I'd write:

"Denounce publicly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimen_sollicitationis_(document)">Crimen sollicitationis and vocally initiate a zero tolerance policy regarding child molestation within the Catholic Church. Once that is done, we can discuss who is a good Catholic."

[WVRICK13]

43. Typical

religious bullshit. I don't give a flying fuck what any priest thinks about anything.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. Apperently Ted Kennedy did give a 'flying fuck' about such matters:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/08/the_ted_kennedy-pope_benedict.html

[AngryOldDem]

57. And he got the equivalent of a form letter in response.

I guess Benny just couldn't take the time to pen a few lines.

[rhett o rick]

68. Wrong. Why would he care what one single priest says. You can find a priest somewhere

that will say anything you like. Wonder how long it took the repukes to find that one priest.

[Dorian Gray]

45. Don't go to that church again...?

Priests shouldn't be calling out others during their homilies like that. It always rubs me the wrong way. (Though, admittedly, I have only experienced one homily where something like that happened, and I've never gone back to that church again.)

[begin_within]

59. That's a possibility, but

I would have to do a lot of explaining to my Mom, and at 90 I she's pretty set in her ways. Certainly after her passing I'm not setting foot in any church again. I haven't gone to a mass by myself for over 30 years.

[seabeyond]

50. anytime a minister singles a person out adn declares and judges the person christianity, they are

being unchristian.

it is not his place to state a "good" christian or not. that alone make the priest a "bad" christian. christ is in the heart and only he can judge

[marmar]

52. Apparently by that he meant, "He didn't accept total church brainwashing"

n/t

[Mystayya]

53. Odd- I was in a Catholic Church yesterday and saw the opposite

I am not a Catholic but was there because my parents were renewing their vows after mass. The Homily was all about how Kennedy was an example to all Catholics and how he truly lived his faith by spending it helping those less fortunate. I'm going to go with "that particular priest is an asshole".

[mmonk]

54. Father Joseph Vetter who came to know Ted Kennedy and the family

had exactly the opposite to say despite the abortion issue in Sunday's News & Observer here in Raleigh,NC. Fr Joe is the Duke chaplain where Kennedy went for treatment and he took the position after my cousin died years ago who was the Catholic chaplain.

[saltpoint]

55. The priest in question needs a refresher course in the American Revolution.

Buncha guys got together and wrote some documents that allow folks to speak their mind and go to the church of their choice, or stay home if they want.

There's something in one of those documents about tax exemption for churches, too.

[olegramps]

56. The old guy was havng a bad day.

The altar boy was able to out run the old fart.

[AngryOldDem]

58. I got into an online argument about this over the weekend.

I am SO FUCKING SICK AND TIRED of everything in the Church these days being reduced to one issue: abortion.

You can be pro-choice and a good Catholic. It is a matter of conscience, and that is between you and God, and your priest, if you so choose to involve him.

The Gospel that was read at the funeral was Ted Kennedy's life.

As for the note: I don't think anything you say will get through to these assholes. Abortion is where it begins and ends with them, and that is one hell of a sorry statement to make about the state of Catholic social justice and teaching as it stands today.

[Sal Minella]

69. "You can be pro-choice and a good Catholic."

Many American Catholics believe this.
Now all we need to do is change the Pope's mind!!!

Because he thinks it's a matter of church doctrine, not individual conscience.

The word "quickening" now refers to the moment when movement of the fetus is first felt by the pregnant woman. In the church, not too long ago, this was believed to be the time of the soul entering the body of the fetus and the fetus thereby becoming a person.

The two-cell person (sperm and egg) is a fairly recent invention by the Church, and it has a lot more to do with suppressing women than with concern for the souls of blastoceles, imo.

[Toasterlad]

83. No, You Can't.

As a catholic, you are expected to follow the teachings of the church, particularly, those of the pope. You so-called "progressive catholics" are fooling yourselves. You are pretending that you belong to a "different kind" of church: one that allows rights for gays and women, one that prohibits third world missionaries from preaching against condom use while people die of AIDS and starvation all around them, one that doesn't condone and enable pedophilia. You pretend this "other" church exists, and yet the money that you donate goes to THE catholic church, and goes to fund anti-gay, anti-women, anti-sex education, pro-pedophilia agendas around the world.

Your "progressive" church doesn't exist. The only catholic church that exists is a centuries-old bastion of ignorance that is on the wrong side of nearly all humantarian issues in the world today.

There are other organizations that handle the few programs that the catholic church has that actually benefit humanity: those that feed, clothe and shelter the needy. Your money and time would be better spent devoted to those, rather than to an organization that exists soley to make itself rich on the superstition of the ignorant and easily led.

Anyone claiming to be a "progressive catholic" who looks down on right-wing hypocricy and religious extremism is themself a hypocrite of the highest order.

[dembotoz]

60. stand up, shake your head and walk out

you can collect you ma after the service

[redqueen]

62. That's exactly what I would have done. (nt)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. "Ted Kennedy was not a good Catholic...thank God."

[Fleshdancer]

70. It must be awesome to be able to cast that first stone

:eyes:

Catholic priests in general should stick to repairing their own reputation instead of judging whether other Catholics are "good" or "bad".

[hedgehog]

73. Oskar Schindler was a terrible Catholic who cheated on his wife, drank too much,

and may have embezzled funds.











He also personally risked his life to save the lives of over 1200 people.










That's more than Pius XII did.

[Cleita]

92. Not only that he was a card carrying NAZI, but he seemed to have retained

his humanity through it all. I think Catholics who don't condemn others for their life choices also retain their humanity far more than any exalted prince of the church sitting in gold gilt rooms filled with precious art works.

[undeterred]

74. Tell him there is nothing about abortion in the Bible

and that Kennedy's view of women as 'capable of moral decision-making' reflects a deeper understanding of God than the church's interpretation.

[Cleita]

76. Nor was there any concern by the church about abortion until the middle

of the nineteenth century. Up until then fertility and childbirth were considered women's matters to be handled by women and their mid-wives.

[Toasterlad]

78. Maybe That's Why He Was a Good Senator.

[harry_pothead]

80. More moral advice from the catamite church.

[sakabatou]

81. Insert a note with John 8:7

[Toasterlad]

84. If You Don't Go Of Your Own Accord, As You Say, Why Do You Care What He Says?

That's like going to a scientology meeting with your crazy scientologist mother and getting mad at the head scientologist guy for saying Obama is bad because he has lots of thetans.

[joeybee12]

86. Tell him you're obviously not a good catholic because you can think for yourself...n/t

[SoCalDem]

87. Ahhh.. a priest, measuring piety

and yet when priests were molesting boys, they were somehow still pious enough to be transferred to other parishes and kept on the payroll..odd :puke:

[burning rain]

88. The BIble--& Catholic social teaching--are full of concern for the poor & for workers.

Not just the "voluntary charity's nice if you feel like chipping in (fine if you don't; we're all capitalists here!)" weak kind of concern beloved of the religious right, but the demand for justice. Ignoring Ted's great work there and just harping on his admitted personal failings, by contrast, is the sort of thing conservatives--who if anything loathe Ted mostly for his commitment to social justice--do. Ted could have lived his life in a monk's cell, fasting and praying, venturing out only to work in the Senate or campaign, and conservatives would have hated him just as much. They hated him more for his virtues--looking after the interests of people they loathed--than for his actual faults, which were more of a pretext.

[slackmaster]

91. That doesn't mean he wasn't a good human being

I'm not Catholic, and even if I was I don't believe such a statement from a priest would bother me.

[RagAss]

100. If I need any more shit out of priests, I'll just squeeze their heads !

[skier_]

101. As my mom said,

best part about being Catholic, as long as you are sorry, everything is fine.

Ted Kennedy did more in his life time than most people could ever dream of doing.