Wait a second... Wendy Portillo (child abuser extradinare) is still teaching?

[jinto86]

So my mother was watching Fox and Friends this morning (hey problem not mine), and they had Alex Barton and his mom on. I didn't watch it though she did record it so I might (even if its Fox its a story about an abused special needs kid, considering my interest and all the studying I have done it only makes sense that I watch it, plus Fox and Friendds from what I have heard has never been that crazy). But the interesting thing I heard from it, the teacher is going to be able to start teaching in a month or two when her suspision is up. This brings up the question... what does it take to fire a teacher? She publically humilated a student, brings him to tears, and that isn't enough to fire her. I am sorry... this is what I hate about the public school system, what happens when she gets another aspie/autie student, same ole ****?

[MajorChode]

1. She did something monumentally stupid

But I seriously doubt she'll ever do anything remotely similar again. She's already paid a very high price for her stupidity.

[jinto86]

2. IMHO child abuse is more then just monumentally stupid

I wouldn't want her teaching any of the kids that I have worked with (or my future kids) any more then I would want someone who molested a student teaching them.

[MajorChode]

4. You're assuming her stupidity rises to the level of a reasonable standard for "child abuse"

And I'm not so sure that's such a good assumption. Had that been the case she would have been criminally charged and nothing of the sort was even considered.

The principal, the superintendent and her fellow teachers all went to bat for her. That doesn't indicate to me that she was such a monster that the press made her out to be.

[jinto86]

5. She is being sued, and I believe charges were considered and denied

Beyond that I don't have a whole lot of faith in the criminal justice system. Humilating a child + bring him to tears = child abuse to me.

[MajorChode]

7. If that were the standard, we'd have to start locking up most of the parents in this country also

[jinto86]

12. If they encourage bullying of one of their kids... yea...

I don't think there are many parents out there who encourage their kids to say what they hate about one of them, then have them voted out of the family.

[MajorChode]

17. Please tell me you're not a CPS worker

[jinto86]

21. Nope, teacher

And it freaks me out that a collegue could this to a child. Beyond that if a parents allienates a kid and encourages his brothers and sisters to bully him that is emotional child abuse to me, what is it to you?

[MajorChode]

28. It's obviously mistreatment

If mistreatment is severe and pervasive enough, then it may rise to the level of child abuse. See "molehill into a mountain" for further reading.

[jinto86]

33. If a teacher encourages abuse even once it is hard to believe she doesn't generally allow it

Makes it hard to trust her going back.

[winyanstaz]

53. Then so be it.

A nation that wont protect their own children deserves to fall.

[Hepburn]

35. Yes, IMO, it does raise to the level of child abuse.

Abuse can be based on mental conduct which damages a child. IMO, any teaher who displayed conduct like this should not have a license.

JMHO

[MajorChode]

37. So why wasn't she criminally charged with such?

It certainly wasn't for lack of publicity.

[Hepburn]

72. My best read on this....

...a DA that did not wish to deal with child witnesses and the main one would be what the DA would likely consider a "problem" child witness to boot ~~ the child who was removed.

DAs are lazy and gutless and take the cases that they can get rid of the quickest.

[Mugu]

3. It wasn't just stupid,

it was downright mean.

[MajorChode]

6. If we got rid of all the mean teachers, there wouldn't be too many educators left

What kind of message does it send to other teachers or perspective teachers when one dumb incident that just happens to make the news can have your tenure revoked and ruin your career forever? Job security is one of the few things teachers have. They sure as hell don't become teachers for the pay and benefits. By the time she goes back to work, she will have already lost her job for over a year. She has suffered enough. She should be placed on probation and if she does something similar removed forever. There is something to be said for 2nd chances.

[jinto86]

9. Having sex with a 17 year old student would be a stupid mistake

Do you want to try telling me that shouldn't get you fired? I would imagine that causes less damage then what she did too. Makes ya wonder.

[MajorChode]

11. False analogy

[jinto86]

13. So it causes more harm but is less worthy of getting fired over... I don't get it.

[MajorChode]

15. It's still a false analogy

More reading may be found under the heading, "apples and oranges."

[jinto86]

18. Child abuse by a teacher and child abuse by a teacher

Its more like golden delicious apples and red delicious apples.

[MajorChode]

24. See post #11 if you want to go round and round

[Lance_Boyle]

32. prosecutors decided this wasn't child abuse

and declined to press charges.

[Hepburn]

36. Prosecutors are assholes...

...that is the general rule. So if they fail to file charges, that means there absolutely is NO criminal conduct involved?

LOL...

[Lance_Boyle]

39. No, it means no PROVABLE criminal conduct occured

you can't mete out punishment for a crime that was not proven to have happened.

BTW - not all prosecutors are assholes. Some are merely sons of bitches.

[Hepburn]

70. Yep, most are more worried about their conviction rate and...

...closing cases than about going after a hard case that really deserves the work.

OK...I can go with SOB, too! :hi:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. Quite the strawman you created there.

[Hepburn]

71. No cigar...

...try again.

I worked in the judicial system for years. I know what the deal is ~~ the DAs usually only go after cases that they can close and which boost their conviction rates.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. The strawman was you writing that no charges means there absolutely is NO criminal conduct involved.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. That "mistake" would also be a felony.

[jinto86]

64. My point exactly

It would cause a lot less harm but there would be no denying that its a felony and that teacher should be fired, why is there the battle here.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

65. I'm guessing a strong union has rule against it's members being fired that easily.

[jinto86]

67. Yea

But if abusing a kid and getting the school district sued doesn't get you fired, what will? Teachers unions should have gotten as far away from her as possible.

[Mugu]

20. I can't see into her heart.

I have no way to know anything about this lady other than what I've heard about this one incident. I'm happy to leave it to the people closest to the situation to decide if she is worth another chance.

My only point was that in addition to doing something stupid it sounds like this lady may have a mean streak.

[MajorChode]

25. I have little doubt that you are right

But I'm quite sure there's a lot of other teachers in that boat, but that is a situation that can be dealt with through behavior modification. As you said it's best to let those most familiar with the circumstances to make those decisions.

[mzteris]

43. why should that matter?

Plenty of child abusers truly believe they are "good people" doing the "right thing". For example - fundies who beat the hell out of their kids . . .

[JVS]

8. I'm wondering what kind of colossal asshole that kid must have been in order to prompt the teacher..

to launch such an intervention on his behavior.

[jinto86]

10. Please tell me your not a teacher...

[MajorChode]

14. Reportedly he had Asperger syndrome

Although I don't think he had been diagnosed at the time, and most teachers don't have a clue about how to recognize or deal with it. The school itself even admitted they probably didn't give her all the help she needed.

[jinto86]

16. I agree, AS kids deserve to get out of the public school system

Especcially if this will be the end result...

[JVS]

19. I remember the report, I'd be interested to know if he actually turned out to have it...

or if that's where mommy went running to look for an excuse for her kid's behavior when this happened. IIRC the event happened several months before the article was published and it was when the article was published that he was "in the process of being diagnosed". In any case, I don't think the teacher should be considered responsible for recognizing mental health issues that not even the parents are aware of several months after the "incident".

[jinto86]

22. No she shouldn't be considered responsible for not knowing about his condition

Which he does have btw. But she should be held for responsible for encouraging his classmates to bully him and kick him out of the classroom.

[MajorChode]

23. The teacher was in the wrong. I have no doubt about that.

The question is to what extent should she be disciplined for her behavior.

There's lots of people out there who let their kids run around like wild animals, then they send them to public school for 6 hours a day so the teachers can deal with them. In this case it at least appeared that the child had a legitimate reason for acting up, but I'm sure she has had to deal with hundreds more that didn't. So she didn't deal with it as well as she should have been expected, but teachers are humans just like parents and some are better than others.

[mzteris]

30. teachers should be trained to recognize

and accommodate all types of disability. He won't be the last "undiagnosed" kid in the system. Kindergarten and other early education teachers are the first line (in the educational system) to recognize and deal with these.

Whether or not, however, he was a special needs child, her actions were DEPLORABLE and should not be excused. She should NOT be allowed to return to the classroom under any circumstances.

[MajorChode]

41. She had no idea he was a special needs child

It would be great if teachers could receive medical training, but I don't really see that happening, and to tell you the truth, I don't think it would do a lot of good. Most parents don't want to be told their kid has special needs.

[mzteris]

42. as I stated, it doesn't matter whether

he was or not, her behaviour is inexcusable. It would be devastating to a "normal" kid to be treated that way.

[redqueen]

45. +1

She let the other students 'punish' him for his behavior. That seems to me to show a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what teaching is all about.

[jinto86]

46. +2

[MajorChode]

47. Her behavior shouldn't be excused

But as none of us have the whole story, it's impossible to determine what really happened.

She played a game of survivor to try and bring what the kids knew into the classroom. She may have not thought there was anything wrong with it even though it obviously was wrong. So yes she should be shown the error of her ways, but that doesn't mean she's completely nonredeemable.

[jinto86]

48. If she is that dumb

to not know that there is something wrong with encouraging the bullying of a child, then she should be fired for being an idiot or sociopath (take your pick).

[mzteris]

29. yes, he does -

"Since then, according to the Fort Pierce (Fla.) Tribune, Portillo has told local police the vote was only meant to be for the day, not for good.

The newspaper also reports that Alex has now been officially diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, a type of high-functioning autism, and with Attention Deficit Disorder."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/30/earlyshow/living/parenting/main4140155.shtml


" . . . The second grader was home schooled last year (after the incident) and attends Jupiter Academy on a MacKay scholarship, which provides money for students with special needs to attend a private school, according to the Palm Beach Post. " http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Kindergarten-Survivor-Makes-Honor-Roll-65027272.html

[mzteris]

26. he's on honor roll at his new school

What does that tell you?

Kindergarten Survivor Goes From Outcast to Honor Roll

Updated 6:26 PM EDT, Tue, Oct 20, 2009

A new school meant a new beginning for Alex Barton

Alex Barton's parents always knew he could excel in school. All it took was a little time - and not being cruelly voted out of class.

Barton, now 7, recently made the honor roll at Jupiter Academy in Palm Beach County, just a year and a half removed from making national attention after being outcast from his kindergarten class in a public school like a contestant on Survivor.

"His mom was not surprised, but very thankful that the teachers were able to give Alex the type of education he needed," said Paul Sopp, the family's attorney. "This just goes to show Alex could be educated if a proper educational plan was put in place."

Barton received straight A's on his report card, his mom Melissa Barton said.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Kindergarten-Survivor-Makes-Honor-Roll-65027272.html

[jinto86]

27. That no kid should ever be forced into the public school system

No matter how rich or poor they are... course that opinion will make me really unpopular here. Single payer education for all!

[MajorChode]

34. Great idea

Instead of fixing the one problem we have, lets simply multiply it along with the costs and problems.

I can't imagine why that's so unpopular around here.

[jinto86]

Yea, who cares about special needs kids (this isn't an isolated situation)

We already have some people around here excusing this situation (yourself included), which tells me people here don't think there is a situation needs to be fixed. He is thrieving at a private school for special needs kids, he was the class outcast and being bullied by everyone, teacher included in public school. Isn't it our responsibility as a society to see that he gets the best education possible? It seems like that is with private schools. While he got a scholarship to go there, how many kids that are being harmed by the school system aren't. So I stand by my convictions.

[MajorChode]

40. Intellectual dishonesty does not improve your argument

I've excused nothing. I clearly and concisely said the teacher was in the wrong on a number of occasions. I've said she got what she deserved and her fellow teachers, her boss, her boss' boss, and the school board happen to agree. You've tried to compare her behavior to child rape. So who do you think is more reasonable?

[jinto86]

44. 17 years old is over the age of consent in most places, not child rape

Beyond that I don't care what the system says about her, she abused a child, she made him scared to go to school, she encouraged other kids to bully him, and she is still teaching. If this was one isolated incident I could get not villifying the system for it, but when I myself had enough similiar **** (though not as bad) to myself, and have seen it happen to a lot of kids that I have worked with. Then there is the fact that the system that failed this kid is going to bat for her... downplaying what she did... that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that her or none of her collegues will do this again. No thanks, I want single payer education for special needs kids if no one else. Not one more child should be harmed by a system they are powerless to get out of.

[MajorChode]

52. You have a hard on for public schools which seems to affect your judgment

And whatever you want to call it, your comparison of sex with a student to what this teacher did is evidence of that. I also have a hard time believing you actually are a teacher. Your OP was riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes. Now I could care less if someone makes spelling and grammar mistakes on DU, but when someone writes a paragraph that is barely coherent and then tries to claim authority on the subject by saying they are a teacher I have to wonder a bit.

[jinto86]

54. I am a dyslexic social studies teacher

Yea, I sometimes get complaints about my writing but who cares, you don't need to write much to be a social studies teacher (at least not the way I do it and I have ever seen it taught). My dysgraphia is far worse. Beyond that yes, I am against a system that abuses special needs kids, and yes I do think they shouldn't be forced into such a system. Put another way, if the mother had kept her son home from school for no reason the day he got abused, she would have been arrested. He had no choice but to go to school and be abused. Single payer education now!

P.S. Your the only one who really cares about my grammar problems... no one else seemed to notice them. So can you point out some specific problems from my orginal post.

[MajorChode]

55. You also have a problem with context

I didn't say I cared about your grammar problems, I said I suspect you aren't a teacher. Just because nobody called you out for it, doesn't mean they didn't notice. Errors in spelling and grammar are generally well tolerated here, as they should be. If you stick around long enough, you'll figure that out. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on either, but from what I know about dyslexia and dysgraphia is that they both cause the person to write letters out of sequence, and that's not your problem. Yours appears to be just garden variety illiteracy.

[jinto86]

56. I asked for a specific problem I had

You declined to offer one. Beyond that I was educated in public schools in one of the best states in the country in one of the best schools in the state, and got As and Bs in AP English (though failed the exam, couldn't stand the books they wanted me to have knowledge of, Pride and Prejudice is a form of torture), says a lot if I am illiterate according to you.

[MajorChode]

57. I feel no need to offer them either.

Your inability to find them simply provides more proof of my hypothesis. And I wouldn't really call you "illitate(sic)", just maybe subliterate, but I definitely wouldn't have accused you of being a teacher.

[jinto86]

58. Like I said I went to a great school and got As and Bs in AP English

I really shouldn't be suliterate (and I did correct that btw) unless there is a failing in the public school system. But your avoiding the problems that are all around you, I guess King Jeremy the wicked really did rule the world (and yes, courts have ruled that is an expected consequance of bullying).

[MajorChode]

59. I'm not avoiding anything

You asked a question. I answered it. If you couldn't stand for someone to present something other than your expected answer, you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

[jinto86]

60. What question and answer was that

You avoided my question about why parents should be forced to send their kid to school to be abused.

You avoided my question about how I am so illiterate (most of my mistakes in the first post were mixing up letters, which I do, do sometimes, especcially online).

You avoided my question about why I am so subliterate when I went to a good school in a good state (for public schools, my childhood city was recently named one of the best places to raise a kid, smallest city that got that honor) if not for a failing in the public school system.

You avoided my question on how this in any way is less harmful to a 5 year old then sex is to a 17 year old (though we both agree one would get a teacher fired, the other wouldn't)

You seem to be avoiding a lot of my qustions. I just want some clear answers,... or single payer education.

[MajorChode]

61. Question is in post #0. Answer is in post #1. It's not that complicated. I promise.

You avoided my question about why parents should be forced to send their kid to school to be abused.

Because I'm not stupid enough to answer a loaded question. If you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife, I'll not be answering that one either. I'd just as soon invite you to go piss up a rope for asking a loaded question in the first place. Try someone else.

You avoided my question about how I am so illiterate (most of my mistakes in the first post were mixing up letters, which I do, do sometimes, especcially online).

I showed you how to answer that one yourself. Give a man a fish... As an alleged teacher I figured you of all people should have appreciated that one, and no your mistakes weren't just mixing up letters no matter how many times you want to claim that. No matter how many times you keep looking for your answer, I'm not going to be convinced about your claim to being a teacher. That ship has already sailed, my friend. I'm not buying it. Try passing that off on someone else.

You avoided my question about why I am so subliterate when I went to a good school in a good state (for public schools, my childhood city was recently named one of the best places to raise a kid, smallest city that got that honor) if not for a failing in the public school system.

Just because you individually failed to learn, doesn't mean the public school system is a failure, and it sure as hell doesn't even begin to even suggest that whatever half-fast alternative you seem to be dishonestly promoting is any better.

You avoided my question on how this in any way is less harmful to a 5 year old then sex is to a 17 year old (though we both agree one would get a teacher fired, the other wouldn't)

I pointed out how it was a fallacy to begin with. I'm not going to argue a fallacy. It would be moronic to do so. I'll simply point out your fallacy. If you want to keep repeating it, that's only a reflection on your ineptness to understand the fallacy and to avoid using them. I'm assuming you wouldn't want to intentionally use a fallacy as an argument to begin with, but that may be a bad assumption on my part.

You seem to be avoiding a lot of my qustions. I just want some clear answers,... or single payer education.

Time to send up the flag. Try checking your OP. In the title you'll find a question the question that was asked and answered. Now you simply want to steer the entire discussion towards some tangential rant about what's wrong with the public school system and how you have the one and only true answer. To tell you the truth, I don't have much of an idea what your secondary questions are between your incoherency and your insistence on using the completely unrelated term "single payer" presumably in relation to education. That doesn't mean you have to explain, because I just don't give a fuck. I signed on to answer your original question. That doesn't give you free rein to demand answers on completely unrelated subjects and then pretend I didn't answer your question. You asked. I answered. Don't like the answer? Too bad.

[jinto86]

62. Public schools failed and abused this child, and many others like him

My solution is to let his parents decide whats best for him and where he is least likely to get abused, basically it comes down to a choice between a school where he will be educated entirely by teachers with special education backgrounds, or a school where he has already been abused once, most of his teachers won't have a special education background, some of his teachers basically took the opinion of JVS (that the it was the kids fault... trust me I know more about this case then you ever will) and most stuck up for her, etc. Your solution is to send him (and those many others like him) back into the public school system and hope for the best. I don't see how your solution is any better.

P.S. I call it single payer education because it will basically be like single payer healthcare, the government will provide the money that you can use to spend at any institution you like be in private or public (though I am totally fine with no religious institutions getting money).

[MajorChode]

68. Now you're being even more dishonest

I gave no "solution" about what to do with the kid. I know your alleged dyslexia affects your reading ability, but do try and keep up.

I also already told you I didn't give a fuck about your public school rant.

If you can't stay on topic (your own in fact), I don't have much more to say to you.

Have a nice day.

[jinto86]

69. Oh so you have no solutions you can just say no... where does that sound familiar...

Though now that you brought it up, what is your solution. If your son or daughter has been abused in public schools (trust me this is not a one time thing, even if its not generally this extreme) and you don't have money for private school and can't get a scholarship (I never was able too) what should you do? The only other realistic option is send your child back and hope for the best... thats not a solution I can live with.

[jinto86]

38. Sorry double post

[Hepburn]

31. Up-Date on Alex ~~ the kid Wendy abused:

Kindergarten Survivor Goes From Outcast to Honor Roll

Alex Barton was voted out of his kindergarten class for having autism

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Kindergarten-Survivor-Makes-Honor-Roll-65027272.html

Wendy does NOT belong in the same school campus as a child ~~ let alone in a classroom in charge of a group of children.

JMHO

[NNN0LHI]

51. Thank you very much for the update

He sure looks like a nice little kid to me. The teacher who allowed the other kids to vote the kid out of school is a first class A-Hole as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't let my kids no where near her.

Don

[Hepburn]

73. You are welcome....

...and I am so glad he has found a place where he can excel! :hi:

[KamaAina]

49. The special needs kids should get to vote on whether she comes back or not

:P

[jinto86]

50. I am for that

Course they all get to tell what they hate about her first right?