what the heck is with all these attacks on progressive dems?

[Lerkfish]

when obviously the problem is the blue dogs, if anything, So, is this the rovian thingy being used by DLC members here to distract from their own agenda?

[Lerkfish]

1. gotta love how this gets an unrec immediately

LOL

[Ignis]

72. Well, you're "whining," don't you know?

- Criticizing our President's choices = whining
- Complaining about the rightward shift in D politics = whining
- Supporting women's rights and the pro-choice platform = whining

However...

- Criticizing Dennis Kucinich = justifiably calling out a UFO-loving kook
- Complaining about the anti-DLC sentiment at DU = rationally defending one's position
- Supporting half-assed health-care reform = compromising for the good of the country

Hope that clears it all up for you, Lerkfish. :hi:

[Lerkfish]

100. why thanks!

that DOES clear it up.

:)

[DWilliamsamh]

120. No....None of those things are whining....howver

making the FIRST response to a thread, not a conversation or comment on that thread - but a useless notification that someone else didn't like the thread and therefor "unrec'd" is whining. And all you are doing is drawing attention to the negative instead of the positive.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF PEOPLE "UNREC" ----- especially on a post that ends up getting to the front page any way? Can you really not stand the thought that a few people here didn't like the post and unrec'd? How does that change your experience here? Is your experience of DU only good when you see total unanimity of thought and preferences?

Seriously, I am trying to understand the need to point out and complain about people un-recommending posts.

[Techn0Girl]

129. When someone complains about a rec I think what is running through their minds is...

something like "How dare someone not agree with my absolutely wonderful thoughts!". Similarly when you have people taunting others about how many recs their thread received and consequently, by some Herculean stretch of logic, how correct their ideas must be because of it ....I think you see a rather childish and self-centered mode of thinking.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy. Not everyone who agrees is your friend. Things are not quite as black and white like that in the reality that most of us occupy. The whole rec/unrec thing has become a playground for children. I wish that all references to recs or unrecs would be banned - they are completely inane and contribute nothing to the conversation.

[DWilliamsamh]

136. I concur about banning comments about ...rec/unrec.

It is a childish waste of time. Navel gazing at its worst.

I just wish one of the people, who feel so moved that they just HAVE to complain about an unrec, would explain WHY?? What is it that compels them to complain because a few people would DARE to not like the same things they do.

[Techn0Girl]

137. Rec..unrec...bleh...

I have made it a rule that when I see a "rec" or "unrec" or a "+10000" post with no other content I put the person on ignore immediately. My rationale is that I don't want to waste my time (in the future) with people who have nothing to say or contribute.

Ummm... needless to say My ignore list is now in the 300's after only a couple months of such a policy - but you know what? Not only am I not missing anything but the signal to noise ration of the comments has substantially improved.

[DWilliamsamh]

142. I like your signal:noise comment so much I may just adopt your policy! (N/T)

[Enthusiast]

157. You have a total of 262 posts

yet your ignore list is in the 300s? Funny, I have no one on my ignore list yet but oddly enough I am finally considering adding a couple.

There are long standing principles that the Democratic Party has stood for. Moving away from these principles or abandoning them will have a tendency to anger traditional "real" Democrats. If we morph into a kind of GOP 1980s style party I am gone.

I don't want my party to embrace Christian fundamentalism, militarism and corporatism.

[DWilliamsamh]

180. I don't want the Dems to embrace those things either....

I have already started teaching my kid that the values he holds are HIS values and he cannot abandon them in deference to supporting any political party. We must always vote for and work for folks who hold our values - not adopt theirs in the name of loyalty.

All that being said... I am not sure what your post has to do with the question of why people feel the need to post the supremely unengaging "I'm pissed that someone didn't like the same OP that I liked," whine about unrec's. If some one unrec's a thread and doesn't actually have the inclination to explain in a post why they disagreed or didn't like a thread why even acknowledge it? Especially regarding an OP that is net positive in recommendations and actually made the front page? It seems to me that the complaint just keeps the chain of navel gazing going.

[Enthusiast]

182. What is the

"chain of navel gazing"?

[DWilliamsamh]

183. Simple...

When someone posts a non-engaging comment Like "OMG I can't believe some one unrec'd this post," Or "I disagree," such posts aren't discussion. They are navel gazing i.e. self referential pointless "look at me" posts. I happen to hate them. I enjoy engagement, discussion, examination of motivations and reasoning etc etc. That is how I learn not only what others think but why. That is how I learn to modify and incorporated others views into my own and the info they pass on that changes my own views. It is how I grow (and I happen to think that is how most people grow - but that's just my opinion)

A chain of navel gazing would be when one person posts a navel gazer, and someone answers with an equally non thought provoking post. All Of this is just a reflection of my preferences for actual discussion.

[Enthusiast]

221. Understood.

There is merit in what you say.

[defendandprotect]

197. JFK platform called for 'NATIONALIZING" our oil resources . . .industry . . !!!

JFK had fired Gen. Edwin G. Walker -- who you'll remember claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald

fired at him in his home some time before the JFK coup.

Walker was fired for trying to moving right wing propaganda -- KKK/Nazi stuff -- into the

military and more.

Later, Gen. Walker led the riot at Ole Miss to prevent the enrollment of a "black" student

there ... JAMES MEREDITH -- !!!

Walker was arrested at Ole Miss and psychiatric treatment recommended.



Today -- we have full-fledged co-option of our military and military academies and government

by the Christian-Taliban --

from Rumsfeld's stationery -- to Congress -- C Street/The Family!!!

We have to get working on this and make "religion" an issue of a different kind!!!

*********************************************************************************

A NEGATIVE ISSUE FOR VOTERS!!

*****************************

[DWilliamsamh]

227. And this is on topic why? (N/T)

[defendandprotect]

229. Let's see . . . was nationalizing oil industry a former Democratic Party ideal . . .???

You might note that the post I was responding to was mentioning those ideals --

And, many people do not know how far we have been moved to the right by the DLC/Blue Dogs/

DINO's within our own party . . . and, of course, by the GOP/corporate party and its many

FAKE think tanks and "movements" like the Teabaggers.

They're fake from the Christian Coalition to Dobson's group and Bauer's --

from US/CIA creating the Taliban/Al Qaeda as well as the violent Islamic JIHAD --

to the right wing political violence and vote stealing.

[defendandprotect]

196. Nonsense . . . they "UN" articles that they don't want to rise and be noticed . . .

We "REC" articles which we want noticed and read --

So it's a question of info and awareness of it --

One is an effort to bring info forward -- the other to bury it.

It's an effort at censorship -- that's all.

[DWilliamsamh]

228. Oh please.....get over yourself and put your tin foil hat away....

It is a simple "I liked this" Vs. "I didn't like this" system among a bunch of folks who share some general similarities in political attitudes and philosophy. If enough people "like it"....it makes it to the front page. It's not like a post with net negative on recs gets a deleted.

Oh wait... I guess you are right. I am just too naive to understand all the threads of control mechanisms used by the Bilderbergers that reach right down into DU.

[defendandprotect]

230. It's not about "liking" or "not liking" an article . . . it's about an article's IMPORTANCE . . .

and what one thinks of the necessity for it to be read by others!

Evidently your basic misunderstanding also extends to the suggestion that we're discussing

a "delete" . . . ?

No . . . what we are saying is that new threads often don't get seen because they don't rise

quickly enough for the majority here to see them. In those cases no one gets the chance to

either "Rec" nor "UN" them.

And a few "UNs" can accomplish that if they catch the thread early enough.

Again -- it's about "Rec" if you feel others should see/read the thread --

and "UN" if you feel others should not see/read the thread --

[DWilliamsamh]

235. Or put another way....

A rec/unrec is about whether you think an OP is worth reading. Some thing it is and some think it isn't. and the ONLY diff is whether an OP makes the front page....as long as it is getting responses of any kind it stays at the top of the respective section it was posted in - hence the OTHER part of "K&R." things people feel moved to comment about stay toward the top of the section - regardless of the balance of rec/unrec..........

Simple. But I can see I am still just being naive. Thanks for explaining the control tentacles of the Illuminati here on DU.

[defendandprotect]

237. Importance is quite different from "like" . . .

A thread has to be seen to get any "responses" which might keep it at the time --
or even kicks which help it along.

OTOH, again . . . if a thread is caught early and UN'd, it will sink and no one sees it.

Anyone who supports the DLC is indeed naive -- unless they're CEO's.


NOW . . . explain to me how anyone could see the Catholic Church's threat to Congress

as "unimportant" . . . ??????????????????

What's it's obviously about is not wanting the Catholic Church's homophobia to be more

on display than it already is --

[Lerkfish]

170. my observation was it was unrecc'd before I even refreshed my screen

that was my point, not that it was unrecc'd, I expected that, I was just amazed at the speed.

[DWilliamsamh]

178. Again....so? What difference did that make? To you? To the thread?

Someone didn't like it. Quickly. With thousands of users, hundreds logged on at any one moment it would seem just as likely that some one would "not like" any particular post just as quickly as someone will "like" it. I just don't see why it is worth posting solely to note that someone didn't like the thread - any more than it would be worth posting for no other reason than to say "hey someone liked this thread and rec'd it." Neither such post advances the discussion of the topic or the post. That's all.

And BTW, I would be scratching my head just as much if someone posted a response one liner, "I don't like what you said," with no effort to engage. What would be the point?

Obviously these are just my opinions - but it's why I am asking questions. Thanks for taking the time to respond.









Edited for grammar. I try. :-)

[Lerkfish]

184. I had just as much right to post what I did as you did criticizing me, eh?

what is YOUR point?

who is navel gazing more? seems about the same to me.

[DWilliamsamh]

225. That it "seems about the same" to you is not surprising.

I was asking you motivation and thinking. Mine is clear in my posts.

And you are right: you have every right to post complaints that someone would have the temerity to not like the same thing you do, or think the same as you. I never said otherwise.

[Ignis]

223. "if someone posted a response one liner"

Having unwittingly derailed this little sub-thread, I'll chime in with a reply on this point:

The situation described in my post title is linked to a specific, registered poster. That's called accountability. That means that I'll always know that user Sneaky_Freeper_123 replied to an OP about Obama being elected president with a simple "do not like this" one-liner post. That's not the same as an anonymous -1/unrec.

Most review systems that use a binary thumbsup/thumbsdown system provide transparency into exactly which users have voted for/against a particular article/post/thread/whatever. So if you know that the 4th negative vote was added by user Transparent_DINO_123, and the 5th was added by DLC_Stooge_456, you can do the mental calculation of changing the total of -5 votes into -3 votes.

It doesn't affect the overall score, but it allows users to use their own judgment about the value or worth of that scoring mechanism.

The DU rec/unrec system does not provide this option. Presumably it limits recs/unrecs by IP address or user account or whatnot--and thus limits vote-flooding hacks--but the value of the scoring mechanism is still not very transparent to the users.

And $0.02 lighter, I'm done. :hide:

[DWilliamsamh]

226. Well at least you made your reasoning clear.

BTW, I wasn't slamming you or anything. I don't think (as my first response to you noted) folks advocating for the issues and values you noted are whiners at all.


My general beef here is the kerfuffle made about unrec's. I understand what you are saying here - I just don't agree with you reasoning behind wanting "accountability." Why? So a bunch of folks can flood the person's DU inbox? You know that would be the result of this so called accountability. And to what end? To hound those who don't agree with everything, so they leave or stop disagreeing?? Or at least what the majority here agrees with?


Remember this is a Democratic sight, and you know what they say about organizing Democrats right?

[defendandprotect]

232. It's not about "liking a thread" . . . it's about the importance of a thread ...

and the importance of its being seen/read by others here --

That's the decision that the REC/UN make . . .

Is it covering an important subject -- or not?

[defendandprotect]

231. Correct . . . if "UN's" can catch the thread early enough they can keep it from moving up into

view of the majority of posters here who would very like REC it if they had

been able to see/read it!!

:)

[truedelphi]

233. It's worse than that. If the "UN's" grab a hold of a post before others see it,

It gets made invisible. So even someone scrolling through topics, back in time, cannot even read it.

That is the thing people don't realize about the UN feature.

[defendandprotect]

236. You said it better than I did . . . keep saying it !!!!

[G_j]

2. It's like those who opposed NAFTA

being compared to Pat Buchanan, who also opposed it.

Dishonest and sleazy is what it is.

[nashville_brook]

36. and look where backing off of NAFTA got us. we're not backing down on this one.

[defendandprotect]

198. The trade agreements should never have happened . . . Clinton . . .

[spiritual_gunfighter]

3. I reced it for you, I am not sure why some are attacking the liberals

Actually I do know.

[pampango]

4. I think 55 of the 57 members of the House Progressive Caucus voter for the HCR bill

and are attacked by many as sellouts. The fact that every republican (except the one "newbie"), a bunch of Blue Dogs and 2 progressives voted against it doesn't prove that the other 55 member of the PC who voted for it need to be attacked from the left.

[Mithreal]

102. The Progressive Caucus vowed to vote no and caved

with the exception of 2.

The PC gave away the strong public option for every American. And the leadership dangled the lives and some needed reforms in exchange for the cave in.

From your post, I can't tell if you understand what happened.

[defendandprotect]

199. Right . .. wasn't Weiner one of those who was going to stand against anything w/o Public Option?

[Mithreal]

224. Yes, 60 signed the pledge, including Weiner

http://www.actblue.com/page/theytookthepledge

[pundaint]

145. We don't like them either, but they don't pretend to believe what we do

When we see the people with bad ideas digging in their heels and the people with good ideas and significant leverage with the majority party, once again talk tough but fail to wield the power many of us worked and contributed toward providing them it pisses us off. We feel stupid for having supported them and that we've been had. Any other questions.

[HamdenRice]

5. If you mean the Kuch, it's because people are realizing just how atrocious his voting record is

Doesn't matter what he says in his Kabuki Theater act; it's what he does.

[depakid]

8. Yep- someone recognizes the problems

and ends up having to do theater.

How sorry is that?

[mod mom]

11. Yeah.. the problem w congress is Kucinich

:eyes:

Dennis offers up practical and rational arguments against the take over by corporate interest lackeys. If you are unable to comprehend what he is doing, perhaps reading his statements would serve you better than wasting your time attacking someone who is fighting for what is best for the average working American.

[sabrina 1]

104. What he did was to vote against the Iraq War

and each vote to refund it. Are you a Bush war supporter?

He presented a bill to Congress for a Single Payer system, responding to what a majority of Americans want. Are you with the Republicans who believe Americans don't deserve what every other Western civilized nation views as a right?

He added an amendment to the House Bill consistent with his belief that Americans should be able to choose such a system if they wanted it. That Amendment was removed by Democrats.

Democrats then added a Fundie anti-women amendment claiming they needed to negotiate to get another vote.

Why did Democrats not negotiate with the Democrats, Weiner, Conyers and Kucinich and the other 39 who voted against it, and add one of THEIR amendments, stand up for women's rights, and give the people what they wanted?

Are you against Women's rights also?

We need, and I hope we get, more like Kucinich, or we will continue to cater to the rabid rightwing, if all we can get are Democrats who consistently cave in to Republicans.

[pattmarty]

119. Do you have voting record links to back up your big mouth?

[natrat]

163. of course not , chickenshit disappears

[Enthusiast]

158. Kuch? Name calling. Most of us don''t consider

the Kucinich voting record atrocious.

[bluetrain]

6. Yes, they're ops and they're doing a piss poor job of covert persuasion.

[natrat]

166. so obvious and dim, but maybe the stupidity by design,anyway fuck you agent mike

[mopinko]

7. people don't understand how it works. when they round up the votes,

if someone would rather not vote for it, and the vote isn't critical, that person, like dk, might get a pass. maybe the speaker wanted the point to be made that some stuff in the bill stinks. maybe the speaker thinks the whole bill smells a little. so, people with big consciences get to vote them. people get to make their points. people get to stay good with their voters.
as long as the bill gets 50% +1, it passes. yeah, we would all like a bill that gets a huge majority. but we all know this bill is not perfect, so why try to make it look like it is?
i suspect the reconciled bill will be the subject of more arm twisting.

that said, the Stupid amendment is a brilliant piece of strategery on the right's part. got us lined up in the usual circular firing squad, even tho there is no way it ends up in the final bill, or passes constitutional muster if it somehow gets that far. and a generational accomplishment is smeared from both ends.
we are so fucking predictable.

[rpannier]

152. Good point

That is how controversial pieces of legislation work
Votes are rounded up and some members are given the option to vote no -- and the reasons they get to are varied
People have forgotten the way Congress worked before this crop of Republikkans storm troopered onto the scene

[KittyWampus]

9. If you are talking about Dennis, he isn't 'progressive'. He voted AGAINST progress. BTW, any DU'ers

attacking Wiener or Grayson?

What's that? No?

[rudy23]

35. He cast a protest vote, FOR the progress the Dems couldn't deliver.

Your blatant twisting of the meaning of his vote is a primary cause of suspicion about these types of anti-Dennis posts.

[robinlynne]

68. +1

[JetCityLiberal]

84. feh, you will always be cryingshame to me

just sayin'.

[pattmarty]

121. Like I posted to another respondent; links, voting record link?........

.......Some kind of maybe even a little vote for some bridge in Ohio that maybe pissed you off?

[defendandprotect]

147. Didn't Weiner just BETRAY THE PUBLIC OPTION . . . ???????

[pundaint]

154. Oh, allow me

Grayson and Wiener are surrender monkeys. They carry the extortion note to close the deal. "Pay up billions and forgo real reform for another decade, and then, against an even more deeply entrenched insurance industry, or this small percentage of those needing real reform will die and it will be your fault."

I would have preferred leadership toward reform rather than leadership in capitulation.

Here's my fantasy: The Progressive Caucus just stands up and says "this isn't good enough for the American people who for too long have been getting a bad deal." We've reviewed the health payment systems of every country having some success with healthcare, including over a dozen that had better results than America achieves and the main thing they have in common, and it's universal outside America, is that insurance covering basic healthcare for profit not part of their system. Not only are they achieving better results they are doing it at a far lower cost both in real dollars and as a percentage of GDP. We believe a world class country deserves a world class healthcare system so here's what were going to do: 1. Open Medicare to all who cannot obtain insurance now or are over 55 and Schp. 2. lower the age limit by 10 years each year until all are included. 3. Establish a program to evaluate and offer a fair price for any infrastructure the insurers need to divest as they transition out of basic insurance coverage. 4. Establish a means to convert those employees currently servicing the insured as first hiring preference for the new government needs in the same area. 5. As employees convert to medicare employers have the choice of increasing their salary by their last insured year's medical costs, or pay an equal amount in tax until the full cutover date. We'll have 5 years of experience by the cutover date as to the cost of universal healthcare - at that point Employer contributions and individual premiums end, and the federal tax rates increase by an equal percentage across the board to pay for it.

And then they refuse to vote for anything less. The people see that Progressive is good for them and turn out the Blue Dogs in the primaries and the Republicans in the election and a new crop of legislators who now appreciate the power of the electorate vote for a complete repair of the last 30 years of damage.

Ah, that would be nice...

[Enthusiast]

159. His nay vote was for progress. nt

[defendandprotect]

200. "Progress" is a bill with no PUBLIC OPTION????????????????

[Odin2005]

10. It's KUCINICH who is being criticized, not Progressives in general.

Folks like Bernie Sanders actually get things done. Dennis is just an attention-seeking flip-flopper.

[Orrex]

14. +1

Now that's a rampage I can get behind!

[Odin2005]

16. LOL!

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Everybody tosses Bernie out there

but Bernie, he is not a member of our Party. And in that lies the lesson to be learned. If you want to bother to look at it. You are knocking a Democrat in favor of a man who is not a Democrat. I love them both, but only one is in our Party.

[redqueen]

40. Is anyone attacking Barney Frank? No, they aren't.

This fucking melodrama over Dennis is what's egging this shit on.

It's childish and tiring as all hell... especially coming from a bunch of folks who just love spewing about cheerleaders and pom poms.

[Forkboy]

74. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8747842

[redqueen]

78. A few people are critical of Barney and that's "attacking"?

Yeah, people are critical of *everyone* on this site... but attacks are the subject here.

People were also critical of Grayson, and a few even attacked him. Same goes for Feingold. But a few attacks by a few people does not a "Rovian DLC plot" (*roffle*) make.

[Forkboy]

80. Easy, Killa, I was just having some fun.

I read that thread one minute before this one and couldn't resist. ;)

[redqueen]

81. Hehehehe...

well I as I was typing that I was remembering all the shit flung at Weiner for saying whatever it was he said about Grayson recently... and at Grayson for being so naughty as to say those naughty things. :P

[Forkboy]

92. Grayson is a horrible, horrible man.

:)

No one is safe here. I even criticized the Dalai Lama one day. :evilgrin:

[pattmarty]

122. Good point. I like Barney on his MANY liberal policies, but as........................

.............far as the banking thing, he is not serving the American people well in my opinion.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

117. Bernie caucuses with the Dems.

And his positions are decidedly on the left flank.

[Bonobo]

41. +1. I never hear people blasting Sanders. What does that tell you? nt

[defendandprotect]

148. You're criticizing Kuchinich for holding out for a PUBLIC OPTION?????????????

[Enthusiast]

160. Flip-flopper?

Still brandishing that tired old right wing label? It says nothing and means nothing.

Dennis is not an attention seeker.

[clear eye]

175. You lie. Refusing to flip-flop is precisely why he is being criticized.

And you know it.

[SIMPLYB1980]

12. Getting what you give.

I think it's funny to watch you all whine about it though. K&R

[Lerkfish]

19. links? examples?

what have I given?

[SIMPLYB1980]

20. Read DU.

Call outs are against the rules.

[Ignis]

71. Asking for evidence =!= asking to be called out. (nt)

[geek tragedy]

13. It's blowback for all of the attacks on Obama and supporters

of the administration and the health care reform legislation in the House.

After months of "Obama is a sellout this" and "only Obama cheerleaders support this bill that" people had enough of being disparaged and told they're not good progressives by people who idolize a guy who voted with the Republican party on Saturday night.

[SIMPLYB1980]

17. +100

:thumbsup:

[rudy23]

28. I don't think it's genuine.

I think some Obama supporters are frustrated with that, but most Obama supporters are more frustrated with Obama than one guy who cast a harmless protest vote on Saturday night --- in SUPPORT of progressives. Tying him to Republicans just isn't going to work on here--you're just making the DLC look bad.

[Egnever]

150. You my friend are a very strange fellow

Kooch is a spectacle. But I love Obama and think considering the mess he was handed he is doing a freaking awesome job.

[Enthusiast]

161. Many of us love Dennis.

Would you please stop calling him names and insulting him?

[HughMoran]

42. That aspect definitely played a roll in it

The person (a frequent rageaholic) who, immediately after the historic bill passed, posted the "statement" on his vote caused it to blow up. Pouring acid on a fresh wound is rarely a great idea.

[Bonobo]

44. That IS what is driving it. I agree.

Just tit-for-tat juvenile crap.

[Cherchez la Femme]

85. He said he wouldn't vote for a bill that didn't have a robust

Public Option.

He stuck by his word.

Amazing for a politician to do so, isn't it?


But in you haul sour grapes about Obama. Seriously flawed logic, or obsession, or both.

Grow up, be a big boy and understand the difference.

[defendandprotect]

149. NO PUBLIC OPTION . . . AND BETRAYAL OF WOMEN . . A DOUBLE WHAMMY . . .

[Enthusiast]

162. Zactly. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

15. The Party Faithful

have been given their marching orders. They tend to march in lockstep, sort of like . . .

[KittyWampus]

24. and Dennis stands still and goes nowhere. Now THAT'S leadership. But at least he SAYS

what we want to hear.

And yes, I said "we". I wanted Single Payer too.

But celebrate the progress being made and ground being broken with the House bill that passed.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. What progress?

Women just had rights TAKEN AWAY fer crissakes! And for what? People who were never going to vote for it in the first place and even WITH the amendment STILL didn't vote for it! You may be willing to make light of regressive civil rights policies but I feel like it's 1973 all over again. And I've already fought this fight. I think you underestimate the backlash you guys are about to get. Somehow you've managed to piss of pretty much ALL your base: the GBLT community (and all who support civil rights for all Americans), the Progressives and now women.

[derby378]

31. Exactly - I think KW has the concept of "progessive" all backwards

Sooner or later, that light bulb is gonna come on, and it ain't gonna be pretty.

[fascisthunter]

38. those who consider Women getting their Rights Taken Away

as being "progress" are inhuman enough to say such a thing. But if it were their own rights they'd be all up in arms. What gets me is these same people have the audacity to tell women here that it's progress, and that you all should shut up and go along with having rights stripped from you while they themselves don't. Pretty deluded and frightfully disconnected to the larger world outside of themselves.

[treestar]

57. Women haven't had any rights taken away ferchrissakes

It's the exaggeration and the over the top drama that draws the attacks!

[Le Taz Hot]

61. I KNOW countless DUers have argued this point

with you ad nauseum, but just for the record, here's your answer: Before the health care "reform," many insurance policies covered all, or in part, abortion services so women either were not out-of-pocket or were charged minimal fees. If this version of health care "reform" remains in tact, those services would not be covered unless women buy Riders. I don't know about you but I don't know of ANY women who think long-term, "I think I'm going to put an abortion Rider on my insurance . . . just in case." That's absurd. Women will have to pay all abortion costs out-of-pocket. This will be of particular hardship to poor women. The right to insurance-paid abortions through carriers that have always provided that specific coverage will be removed. It's discriminatory against women, it plays to the religious zealots that would just as soon women not even have the vote and it's REGRESSIVE. I don't know how much clearer we can make it to you.

[Techn0Girl]

133. Woman ... drama .... nice.

So woman are complaining about this because we're all just into drama ?

Rush is that you?

Look , this amendment most certainly does remove woman's rights. It does so by imposing an exorbitant financial penalty on a woman's right to choose. It does this by requiring that insurance companies not pay for abortions - although Viagra and vasectomies are still covered.

This isn't "drama" , this is a huge slap in the face to woman everywhere and I can only hope that this will be shot down in the Senate version.

[defendandprotect]

188. It moves BEYOND the Hyde Amendment . . .

[defendandprotect]

187. What are you celebrating? No public option? Women betrayed?

If you want Single Payer why are you settling for NONE?

[treestar]

58. Which has to be done to a reasonable point

The repukes do. That's why they STILL RULE even as a minority. What the hell is so valuable about never agreeing and never working together just as a matter of principle? It makes us irrelevant even in the damnned majority!

We should be 1000% behind Obama especially now that he said he doesn't agree with the Stupak Amendment!

[Le Taz Hot]

64. The answer is simple:

Get back to traditional Democratic Party principles where the populace isn't the ones who have to make ALL the sacrifices. You'll get our base back, you'll maintain the Center and gain new independents.

And I'm not 100% behind ANY politician and that includes my own Barbara Boxer who I love but don't always agree with. You make my point -- blindly following a politician just because he/she has the correct letter next to his/her name is NOT democracy. Democracy means, or is SUPPOSED to mean that politicians are held accountable by the electorate, regardless of party affiliation. Blind adherence to a party bought and paid for by the elite is the antithesis of democracy.

[defendandprotect]

190. Agree . . . however, the hurdle before is that we don't own our representatives; corporations do-!!

[pundaint]

155. If you want to get to the destination you want it's best to follow

someone headed in that direction.

Obama is headed toward increasing Health Insurers revenues
Obama has renewed the contracts of, or has hired many of the architects of our banking crisis, and during his tenure in office has done nothing to reign them in
Obama is escalating the fighting in Afghanistan
Obama has not stopped extraordinary rendition
Obama has conducted publicly, the business he pledged to conduct publicly
Obama has surrounded himself with way more lobbyists than he promised
Obama has delegated healthcare legislative leadership to republicans

That bus, despite the Route indicator, just hasn't been heading my way since January.

[defendandprotect]

189. What success has Obama had in trying to "work with Repugs" . . . have you missed that???

And what just happened with "The Family" right wing Dems who vowed they would only

vote for the health care legislation IF it included the Stupak Amendment?????

Right -- they put in the Amendment and they didn't vote for the bill anyway!!!

Yes - the right wing continues to rule . . . BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS PERMIT IT --!!

[nemo137]

21. I don't think that the repeated accusations of being paid shills is helping

[Romulox]

22. After several purges, a large, vocal minority of posters are now center/right

The "big tent" theory provides them cover.

:shrug:

[rudy23]

32. What motivates "center-right" people to post on a discussion board? Their passion for center-right

values? What brings them to this site? I've never known anyone who was passionately pro-DLC. It's a compromised position by nature, people are usually either sheepish about the compromises they've made, or they're dispassionate about politics. Otherwise, what brings them to a progressive site?

[HughMoran]

52. Negatively categorizing people who disagree with you isn't very practical

Is that the best you can do?

[defendandprotect]

191. It's a clear question . . . why would the DLC embrace a progressive/liberal website . . .

Oxymoronic . . .

[cui bono]

139. psssst...

this is not a progressive site.

[Enthusiast]

167. The support of organized labor

is a progressive ideal.

If the Democratic Party and DU isn't progressive I will change to a party that is.

[defendandprotect]

194. Organized labor should be calling Democrats out to demonstrate for PUBLIC OPTION . . .

either this is betrayal of the union membership and Democratic Party members . . .

or its meer oversight????

Where are the women's groups calling out women to demonstrate for MEDICARE FOR ALL???

NONE of this makes sense because the unions and women are being co-opted and ignored!!!

[defendandprotect]

193. Exactly . . . now what do we need to do to make it one?

Or, do we liberals/progressives move on to a more progressive website?

[Enthusiast]

222. When someone advocates for

some progressive view on DU someone often pops up to slap it down. On this there is little doubt. I'm all for a variety of views and a "big tent" but I have little tolerance for those that would forever change the Democratic Party into a 1980's Reagan Democrats party.

[Enthusiast]

165. Excellent point, Rudy.

You are so right.

[Sebastian Doyle]

204. Paychecks?

It's fairly obvious which ones work for various corporate interests (insurance/Pharma/MonSatan/etc.)

[nashville_brook]

33. [phone]

[Enthusiast]

164. Ex Republicans. nt

[Life Long Dem]

23. The hungry lions won't stop.

First it was 50 seats, then came the Blue Dogs. What's next? A Government that can do it's job? Oh yeah... let me add that I support the President. So they know they can jump on me, but who supports the President?

[WI_DEM]

26. We have to put up with attacks daily on President Obama so get used to it.

This is as those who attack Obama daily say, "a message board."

[Lerkfish]

39. so its petty revenge? or is it message based?

[SIMPLYB1980]

47. That's funny someone from the DK is God fan club calling

others petty. :popcorn: :rofl:

[HughMoran]

49. The word is "ironic"

:)

[Lerkfish]

60. I"m in the DK is god club? really?

prove it.

you can't because I'm not at all. You're confusing me with other people.


I AM a progressive, though.

[Enthusiast]

168. There is NO DK is God fan club

or anything like it. Why the smart alec remark?

We support Dennis because he supports what we do.

[HughMoran]

48. Are the non-stop attacks on the President "petty"?

Downplaying the anger will not make it go away. There's nothing petty about the future of healthcare in this country.

[Lerkfish]

62. sure, they're petty also if they're not based on an issue

I don't attack the president.

[cui bono]

140. Which is exactly why Obama needs his feet kept to the fire.

Nothing wrong with critical thinking and a reminder that there is a base out here that he needs to start paying attention to.

[rudy23]

27. Check it out, I've been on this since July:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6022082

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6972693


Isn't it nice to know the party we campaigned and busted ass for, is now throwing us under the bus and trying to blame us for the healthcare reform debacle?

Yes, the DLC is being very Rovian here, and trying to bully us into abandoning our progressive values through aggressive, group-think tactics.

[nashville_brook]

34. where there is groupthink there is bullying. great links -- shows this isn't just about the vote.

DLCers have the temperament of Repubs when it comes to groupthink. you're either on the bus or under it.

[HughMoran]

50. Generically name-calling using the "DLCers" montra is not helpful

Most people here don't support the "DLC agenda" or even know what it is for that matter. It just serves to make the accuser look like they don't have an real arguments. Is calling names a good response to being called out on an issue? I think not. And yes, much of the calling out used name-calling as well, but that doesn't make it right.

[nashville_brook]

54. seriously, DLCer is not name-calling. do you prefer Blue Dog? ConservaDem?

to me, DLCer is actually a way to be specific about a set of beliefs without any kind of emotional content. name-calling is when you smear a group with an undeserved attribute the way i've seen "moonbat" thrown around here.

if i wanted to be inflammatory i would use "ConservaDems." But, it doesn't matter -- does it -- if i'm trying to be inflammatory or not. you're going to attack anyone on any ground no matter how flimsy. that's the way bullying works. or, the way WAR works...and, you are at war, aren't you?

[HughMoran]

59. So suggesting that calling people "corporatist DLCers" is name-calling is in itself "bullying"

The throwing about of the "bullying" term is, in itself, another form of passive-aggressive behavior on your part.

To then equate my words with "war" is so far beyond the pale as to be laughable.

Do you have an argument to make, or are you going to just attack me with stereotypes?

[Kermitt Gribble]

118. After your tantrum the other night,

you have no business lecturing anyone about name calling.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6956027

[defendandprotect]

207. DLC is corporate-wing of the Dem Party . . . dedicated to moving party to the right . . .!!!

Read their own website!!!

Any Dem here who doesn't know what the DLC is should go to their website.

Hillary C is part of DLC leadership --

Bill and Al Gore were founding members --

Gore left after they convinced him to eliminate his populist speeches in '00 --

later he saw that probably harmed him greatly -- and he told the DLC so.

"DLC" should be a dirty name here -- same as corporatism . . .

[Techn0Girl]

127. It's not DU ers per se but ....

But rather a small but very vocal segment of ... well of humanity that you find all over the internet. The internet is a godsend for those who have been rightly ostracized from most other areas of social intercourse because of their behavior. They sit at home and act out in the only place (other than Republican Teabag parties) that they imagine that they have an audience . Most of the people who act out like this are shut-ins, jobless (meaning unemployable) and with little to nothing in the way of family or friends.

I have no doubt that a certain percentage of posters here are shills from right wing orgs coming here to intentionally disrupt but I think the sad fact is that more often than not those who act out or "bully" as you call it are just socially disturbed people who imagine themselves to be progressives.

Personally I wish DU were more heavily moderated - I am finding the content here to be less and less worth my time. Personally I throw anyone who does a "K&R" or "+10000" post (with nothing else added) into the ignore bin (for being inane) as I do with people who act like children and taunt or bully others here. This thread alone added at least two dozen to my own ignore list.


It only takes a few bad apples ....

[defendandprotect]

208. Rather . . .

Think you've made clear what a waste of time reading yours posts would be -- !!

Personally I wish DU were more heavily moderated - I am finding the content here to be less and less worth my time. Personally I throw anyone who does a "K&R" or "+10000" post (with nothing else added) into the ignore bin (for being inane) as I do with people who act like children and taunt or bully others here. This thread alone added at least two dozen to my own ignore list.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

+1!

[ProleNoMore]

75. Rahm Emanuel Has Unleashed The Attack Dogs

eom

[defendandprotect]

203. We had a clue when Obama eloped into the White House with Emmanuel/DLC . . .!!!

a BIG FAT CLUE . . . !!

[defendandprotect]

202. Exactly . . . and we're not going to get a PUBLIC OPTION sitting at home -- !!!

Labor unions should be calling out members and Democratic Party members --
that's obvious . . .

Same with women's groups -- women and children need universal health care --
where are they all?

Simple oversight?

We're all sitting at home posting on DU because no one has called us out --
and they will not call us out!!

Works best that way for the insurance "for profit" health care industry!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Because for Dennis, "Change" is more that a handy slogan.

[Life Long Dem]

53. Let's not go that far. DK never talks about a bill passing

Why would DK have it any different with the Blue Dogs? If they are on the wrong side then they are going to be on the wrong side for DK as well.

[defendandprotect]

205. Bill passing is not the goal . . . worthwhile bill passing is the goal . . .

NO PUBLIC OPTION isn't a goal -- !!!

[havocmom]

30. Been thinkin' on this topic. Decided it is partly due to fatigue.

So many have grumbled (some have even worked) that things needed to change. So many have grumbled or worked so hard for so long that they are just plain exhausted. They would like to rest. They would like to be comfortable in the delusion that things are fine now and they can rest on the laurels of the last few elections.

Sadly, the RW and corporate sponsored pols of other designations, know this about human nature, and they will wait us out, drag their feet, divert attention, just plain wear us down over time so they get their way. They are the spoiled, willful children, screaming and throwing tantrums until tired parents give in and let them do what they want and not do what needs to be done.

The stalwart progressives (who, I admit, can be pretty annoying and impractical at times) just annoy us when we are so fucking tired. Like Jiminy Cricket, they sit on our tired shoulders and point out that so much needs to be done.

Balance. Each of us must find personal balance between the realities of all that must be done and what we individually have to give to the tasks. If we work on finding personal balance, the left end of the scale seems a bit less annoying. Balance, reality, goals are all important.

Go outside and play once in a while. It's good for the work you do because it is good to recharge and refill the vessel that is you.

[bvar22]

37. "Message Discipline"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/rahm-emanuels-think-tanke_b_185203.html

There is a handful of Good Germans at DU.
They are very LOUD.

[redqueen]

43. "is this the rovian thingy being used by DLC members here "

Yeah, you're so onto us.

OMG I can't believe you found us out.

I hope the DLC still sends me a check this week!

:eyes:

[Lerkfish]

45. sarcasm aside...

what is the intent?

[redqueen]

46. There is no "intent"... read posts 10 and 13 again.

[Lerkfish]

63. well, that's confusing because both of those posts contain intent

intent for revenge as punishment for perceived previous actions.

so your point is eluding me.

[redqueen]

66. A reaction is not 'revenge'... it's a reaction. (nt)

[Lerkfish]

69. but a reaction depends on the original action

therefore, are you saying that if these people never perceived others as attacking the president (accurate or not), they would not be attacking progressives?

that seems to be what you're saying.

[redqueen]

70. Stop being disingenuous. As has been pointed out (repeatedly), no one is attacking "progressives"

No one is attacking Barney Frank. No one is attacking Weiner. No one is attacking Grayson. No one is attacking Feingold. No one is attacking Sanders.

Is it sinking in yet?

[Lerkfish]

76. nice sidestep

but whatever.

[redqueen]

77. It's not a sidestep. People are NOT attacking progressives.

They are attacking Kucinch for his vote. And there is also the backlash aspect of it.

It's really not that hard to understand.

[Lerkfish]

79. I thought you were denying the backlash aspect

hence my confusion.

[Individualist]

86. Nice try.

DLC has been attacking Dennis and progressives for years.

DLC Attacks Dean and Kucinich over War Opposition
http://archive.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=Democratic%20Leadership%20Council%20(DLC)

The Republicans and the DLC spent a lot of money trying to defeat Dennis Kucinich
http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/2006cmoy.html

[redqueen]

87. LOL... sorry, I assumed we were talking about people on this site.

Yeah, no shit the DLC has been doing it.

It's the claim that anyone here who criticizes Kucinich is a paid DLC troll that's fucking ludicrous.

[Individualist]

90. Yeah, right.

Everyone knows there are no DLCers here.
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[redqueen]

93. I know there's at least 2 or 3...

but this schtick where people crow about how anyone who disagrees with Kucinich is a rovian DLC shill/plant whatever is frickin laughably sad.

[Individualist]

94. 2 or 3...

:rofl:

[redqueen]

96. ...

:tinfoilhat:

:rofl: indeed! :7

[Individualist]

97. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6972819&mesg_id=6972819

Note the +161 recs.

[redqueen]

98. OMG YOU'RE RIGHT!

You just TOTALLY PROVED that EVERYONE who disagrees with Dennis is a DLC ROVIAN PLANT!

OMFG!

I'm so awed!

[HughMoran]

51. Not Rovian or "DLC", practical consideration.

IF his vote is insignificant and his vote RARELY MATTERS, then is he really a leader? If bills he introduces have absolutely no support even on his own side of the aisle, of what significance is the introduction of such other than to represent a self-promotional stunt on his part? IF he can form a coalition of support for a particular proposal, THEN I say he should introduce his legislation. An army of one? Nice marketing campaign.

[noiretextatique]

101. the significance is that his bill is the real reform we need

and want, but can't have because of the insurance lobby.

[defendandprotect]

206. Correct . . . "Americans overwhelmingly want PUBLIC OPTION" . . .!!!

[Individualist]

55. You get it!

This rovian thingy is being used by DLC members here to distract from their own agenda. It's not working because most of us see that DLC is the elephant in the room.

:thumbsup:

[branders seine]

56. the lobbyists and DC activists don't exactly avoid sites like DU,

now do they?

[WonderGrunion]

65. I've never attacked Weiner or Grayson

Kucinich, though, voted to allow 45,000 Americans to die this year from lack of health coverage because he didn't get HIS bill. Fuck him.

[redqueen]

67. Nobody is attacking them. Just goes to show all these paranoid OPs

are just nonsense.

[Cherchez la Femme]

88. Ted Kennedy wouldn't have voted for that piece of crap bill either

he's spinning in his grave

Yet I see many of you DLC'ers putting his pic up as your icon.

It isn't fooling anyone, and you should be ashamed.

Join Ignore, but don't forget to blather a response; I SO enjoy seeing a black text "Ignored"! I should have used that option long time ago.

[redqueen]

95. What makes you think so? He frickin co-sponsored NCLB.

I swear, the need to put halos on people and pretend they're perfect and would never ever do anything that would disappoint anyone, ever is beyond childish.

[Kermitt Gribble]

123. I got news for you, genius:

those 45,000 are going to die this year, next year, the year after that, and the year after that. Then, in 2013, maybe a few fortunate souls will be covered under this crap reform bill. But that will easily be eclipsed by the increase in bankruptcies, due to mandated, crappy insurance. Nice sound bite you keep repeating, though.

[Egnever]

151. when you follow up calling someone a genius with pure ignorance

Its pretty hard not to laugh at you.

[Kermitt Gribble]

177. So the HCR bill is going to save 45,00 lives this year?

When does this so-called public option kick in?

[liquid diamond]

130. This.

We have to be realistic about HCR. We won't get everything we want. I prefer a "shitty" bill than none at all.

[Techn0Girl]

138. This Bill is NOT a public option....

This bill creates a new 40 million or more FORCED clients of private insurance companies. This bill will require a low wage earner, earning only 24,000 a year to pay an ADDIIONAL $2000 to a private insurance company (after the subsidy) for a crappy policy with a $2000 deductible. So the low wage worker is going to have to put out $4000 in a given year before he sees one dime in benefits. I can give you a link to the House Ways and Means report where those figures come from if you wish.

Oh yeah, this bill also takes away 150,000,000 woman's right to choose by imposing a huge economic sanction.


Maybe Kucinich knew what he was doing?
He was pretty unpopular when he voted against war funding and the so called "Patriot" Act as I recall.

[ProleNoMore]

73. The DLC Supporters Have Been Unleashed By Rahm Emanuel

eom

[Nikki Stone1]

82. LERKFISH!!!

Nice to see you. Where have you been?

[Lerkfish]

99. hiya

been around.


howzbyou?

[Nikki Stone1]

105. Not bad.

Just very progressive... :)

[Lerkfish]

110. hehe

yeah, amazing how that irritates so many people, isn't it?

:)

[Nikki Stone1]

116. No kidding!

I have my own fan club of unrec'ers

[LostInAnomie]

83. Because sometimes idealism has to take a back seat to pragmatism.

Most adults realize this.

[defendandprotect]

209. PUBLIC OPTION isn't an "ideal" ... it's a necessity. Anything less is corporatism . . .!!

We're not working to benefit insurance companies and "for profit" health care industry --

we want an OPTION for the public --

Anything without that option is MEANINGLESS . . .!!!!

[Political Heretic]

89. I just heard Kuchinich interviewed on Democracy Now and I'm struggling to find fault with his points

It didn't sound like a fringe lunatic - it was a fairly compelling argument that the health care bill, as written, won't even be progress and will in fact make matters worse.

Incidentally - I just heard from the founder of FireDogLake, also interviewed on Democracy Now! that the bill includes a provision to guarantee drug companies an permanent monopoly on biological drugs, the drugs of the future. If passed these drugs will never go generic, and only be affordable to the wealthy - indefinitely.

It's like the more I read, the worst this bill looks, and Kucinich doesn't seem crazy at all.

[Echo In Light]

91. Precisely the desperate NEED to paint him as such by those who have a hard-on for his supporters

[Enthusiast]

169. It didn't sound like a fringe lunatic

because it isn't. +1

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. Only One I've Seen Them Against Is Kooky Kucinich.

You ask why? Well, cause he's not all that bright or effective.

[Techn0Girl]

106. Neither are you ...

And you are probably the 300th reactionary person to go into my ignore list ... where you belong

[MilesColtrane]

107. Wow, not even here 5 months and you've got 300 people on ignore?

I'm buying stock in your list. It's going places.

[Techn0Girl]

125. 301

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Oh My God I Think I'm Gonna Cry.

Some obscure, unknown, anonymous, non-veteran and knee jerking poster of which I've never before seen has now put me on ignore. This is the worst day ever!!!!!11111

[LoZoccolo]

115. Ha ha ha ha! What other message boards is she on? (That'll be hard to top.). n/t

[Lerkfish]

112. well, this thread is amusing at least

although maybe not on purpose.

[Enthusiast]

172. Stop calling Dennis names!

Now!

[defendandprotect]

211. ...because going backwards and getting nothing is to be highly valued .. .????

A health care bill without a public option is meaningless --

it's a step backwards --

[LoZoccolo]

109. Yeah, it has to be a conspiracy. No one could possibly disagree with /you/.

Protip: Maybe the reason you avoid taking those posts head-on and defending your position is the reason that "progressives" are being attacked in the first place.

[Lerkfish]

111. not sure I understand you.

where have I avoided taking anything head on?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6975384&mesg_id=6975432

if you'll note, I addressed you twice in this thread, and you avoided me both times... so who is actually avoiding whom?

[LoZoccolo]

114. I did it for the lulz.

You've addressed me before like I'm part of some conspiracy, so I think it's funny to ignore you.

[Lerkfish]

176. ah. so you FALSELY accuse me of your own behavior

that IS funny. although not as you originally intended.

[LoZoccolo]

179. My behavior has a different reason though.

These rally threads are for when people have run out of things to say and want to try to intimidate the other side with crowd behavior (which doesn't work so well amongst anonymous people on the Internet). For me, it's just kinda funny watching you come up with new angles on your DLC conspiracy theory. Do you really think they'd pay someone to spend time posting messages to roughly 4,000-5,000 people who rarely change their mind about anything, who largely don't spend any time getting involved in politics if it requies more from them than sitting on their couch or office chair? Even I don't think I'll change many peoples' minds here; I'll be happy just to show people that you don't have to act insane to be a Democrat.

[Lerkfish]

186. your reason to falsely accuse of something is what, again?

oh right, to continue to make more false accusations of my intent based on nothing.

[valerief]

113. I stole candy from a baby today. We all have our bad days. nt

[ProleNoMore]

124. I Stand With Dennis Kucinich

eom

[defendandprotect]

212. Yes -- why support a bill with no value????

[Mari333]

126. we have been taken over by cheerleaders in the dnc and dlc

carrying pom poms and following their leaders, blindly, like rats on a sinking ship.

Its a hoot.

let them have their fun for now.when the dem base is lost, just smile and say
"I told you so."

[Techn0Girl]

143. This DLC / DNC Meme is getting old ...

And it doesn't make sense. It's silly for so many reasons .... here are two of them.

#1. It doesn't make sense to disrupt a group just because they do not agree with you completely. That kind of black and white thinking is simplistic and not the kind of thinking that real political strategists employ. Why would Democrats try to disrupt a place where people's ideas are near their own? Why waste time here rather than disrupting right wing blogs? It doesn't make sense to believe such a thing.

#2. Most people on internet boards simply don't vote and hence don't matter. The vast majority of people here who voice what passes for their opinion simply aren't the kind of people who vote, let alone are movers and shakers in their community. That's just the nature of the internet and isn't confined to this one place.

#3. There's not a shred of evidence that DLC or DNC or men in black helicopters are doing anything coordinated against this site. Someone with too much paranoia in their pizza mentioned the idea and it caught on with the more excitable and less critical thinkers among us. But unless someone has any real proof than it has no more veracity than right wingers believing the government is putting drugs into the water or whatever.

[Lerkfish]

171. your points are laughable.

#1. It doesn't make sense to disrupt a group just because they do not agree with you completely. That kind of black and white thinking is simplistic and not the kind of thinking that real political strategists employ. Why would Democrats try to disrupt a place where people's ideas are near their own? Why waste time here rather than disrupting right wing blogs? It doesn't make sense to believe such a thing.

you obviously have no idea about disinformation campaigns active now as we speak, from a variety of sources... including Rahm Emmanuel's group to keep progressives "on message"
#2. Most people on internet boards simply don't vote and hence don't matter. The vast majority of people here who voice what passes for their opinion simply aren't the kind of people who vote, let alone are movers and shakers in their community. That's just the nature of the internet and isn't confined to this one place.
you're honestly claiming DUers don't vote? LOL!

#3. There's not a shred of evidence that DLC or DNC or men in black helicopters are doing anything coordinated against this site. Someone with too much paranoia in their pizza mentioned the idea and it caught on with the more excitable and less critical thinkers among us. But unless someone has any real proof than it has no more veracity than right wingers believing the government is putting drugs into the water or whatever.
blah blah blah. classic logical fallacy. If you'd been around here during the prmary, you'd know that was EXACTLY what was going on.

[Techn0Girl]

181. Before I put you o ignore ....

"you obviously have no idea about disinformation campaigns active now as we speak, from a variety of sources... including Rahm Emmanuel's group to keep progressives "on message"

So I ask you for some proof of your bizarre conspiracy ideas and as "proof" you offer me .... more bizarre conspiracy ideas? You probably don't see the above as odd do you?

"you're honestly claiming DUers don't vote? LOL!"

Not only am I claiming that a huge number of people here probably don't vote I'd put some big money on it. The majority of posters on popular web sites (like this one) are posers. You can tell from the enormous amount of "K&R!" responses that a huge majority of people here know nothing about politics and just need to be somewhere where they imagine people are like themslves - which is true for any popular web site.

"blah blah blah. classic logical fallacy. If you'd been around here during the prmary, you'd know that was EXACTLY what was going on."

There are dozens and dozens of logical fallacy yet you don't offer any proof of which "logical fallacy" I am committing which leads me to believe that "logical fallacy" probably means something different than you thing it does - which really is a polite way of saying you probably don't know what logical fallacies really are. Then you go on to your weird conspiracy theory again and this time making the assumption that I have not been around as long as you (whereas in fact I have been around much longer most likely). Oh and by the way the logical fallacy that you are committing by claiming that I have not been around during the primaries is a combination of "Begging the question" and "Ad Hominum" - just so you know.

In any case you now go where you rightfully belong - in my "ignore" list which must make this seem too close to real life for you I imagine.

[Lerkfish]

185. I am honored to be number 302

you now have as many people on ignore as you do posts.

congratulations!

[defendandprotect]

215. I reversed it and put her on ignore . . .

[natrat]

238. do me a favor putz add me to that list too

[defendandprotect]

213. Hopefully we're only getting started on ridding the party of DLC thinking and

DNC behavior --

I don't think anyone sends money to DNC anymore -- at least I hope not!

And we should all realize DLC is poison in the Democratic Party!


the government is putting drugs into the water or whatever.

Evidently you're completely unaware that our drinking water is heavily polluted

with prescription drugs, hormones, etal --????!!!!

Yes -- support Dennis Kucinich and recognizing DLC for the corporate crap it is must be

tin foil time . . . !!!



:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Capn Sunshine]

214. wait, what?

I'm in the DNC. I'm a progressive. Worked for Howard Dean. Sure, I used to be a member of the DLC, but all the cool kids were! It was the 90's!

I don't even post here in GD anymore because all the RNC Teabag shills pretending to represent the DNC and DLC have made this site unreadable.

Except for the lounge, which is the calmest and most centered of all the forums.

[man4allcats]

128. You have to understand. These are not well people.

DLCers are intellectually constipated. In clinical circles, there is some discussion of a possible therapy involving massive doses of Ex-Lax to relieve the pressure inside their skulls thereby eliminating the pain that fuels their dysfunction. In the spirit of compassion, one can only hope for a timely cure.

[winyanstaz]

131. K & R....

I suspect trolls are the ones but I also think it is people that have bought into the insurance industry or the drug companies etc.
I think they have some kind of money issue at stake..other wise why are they screaming so loud and without even reading the bill?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

132. All in all, the attacks on progressives remind me of the way misbehaving young people treat

peers who refuse to shoplift or cheat on tests or do dangerous stunts.

Deep down they know that what they're doing is wrong or foolish, so they make themselves feel better by dumping on those who stay out of trouble.

[Techn0Girl]

135. That kind of behavior....

Isn't just confined to young people. It's unfortunate but a huge segment of adults never progress beyond such thinking. You see it in people who make ridiculous car purchases and than go to great lengths to justify it and you see it in "Ditto-heads" and Teabaggers who can only "rationalize" their own bad behavior by demonizing the opposition.

Unfortunately Democrats, Progressives, whatever have no special immunity against stupid people and we have just as many in our camp as do Republicans and they act much the same way. I think the founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing when they made our country to be a representative democracy rather than a true democracy - the sad truth is that people are for the most part too stupid and too disorganized in their thinking to completely govern themselves. Most of them can barely function in an internet forum.

[MilesColtrane]

141. What an elitist thing to say.

[Lerkfish]

174. true dat

further up they claim DUers don't vote and are irrelevant.

hmmmmmm.....

[Deja Q]

195. Oops. Wish I saw your response first,

but then I responded with a true life story. It does happen to people of all ages. (I'm approaching 38... of course, most people I tell that I've got arthritis don't believe me on that either... I've figured out what an "incredulous facial expression" looks like, though with AS it would not have been possible for me to even fathom it, 20 years ago... rote and memory can mask genuine EQ...)

[defendandprotect]

216. And, you don't either support a "people's" government . . . good work!!!

Yes . . . only elites, owners of the country should have the vote!!!

:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush:

[Ikonoklast]

240. But at least they can spell 'Aviation'.

But, Your Grace, please, I implore you, to allow us lowly proles to bask in Your presence just a short while longer.





Full of yourself, aren't you? You'll grow up one day, don't worry.


Add me to your list. I implore you, Your Eminence.

[Deja Q]

192. That still happens today...

When I posted on facebook that I was happy to be going back to college, a person who wanted me to 'friend' him later made a very rude response about me (you know, the "well behaved goodie-two-shoes college boy" (paraphrased, not wholly inclusive, but not inaccurate either)). This isn't 1989; we're supposed to be grown up. I didn't deserve the attack. (And, no, I have yet to post that I've made the honor's list, twice in a row, and with luck I might make it a third time. I'm only arrogant to a certain extent...)

I ought to start defriending or just close the account; I don't use it and I suspect Microsoft has bought out the place given the number of times facebook has been hacked...

[David Zephyr]

134. Agree.

Makes one wonder.

[inna]

144. who besides Kucinich?

[MisterP]

146. ya really expect a group of proud conservatives allied with the C Street cult, which demands blind

obedience and supine follow-along, to not spam their bankrupt ideology and proclaim it the salvation of party and country?

[Egnever]

153. Wow I knew this place was suceptable to conspiracy theorists

But reynolds must be working overtime for this thread.

[defendandprotect]

218. ....'Cause this is "Conspiracy-free America" . . . !!!

Happy moonwalk !








:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

217. Agree . . ..

[gleaner]

156. I think it is because ....

they want to keep us distracted from the matters that we should be most concerned with. It is really difficult for most people to absorb a personal attack and still keep thinking. Fear and anger kill the ability for rational thought, so keep us on the defensive and we are less effective in stating our views and then acting alone and together on what we say.

[Lerkfish]

173. excellent post. I think you have something there

:)

[defendandprotect]

219. Wholly agree . . . it keeps the conversation in one spot -- no moving on to next plateau . . .

Like ... what is plan B?

[earth mom]

201. Sorry I'm too late to rec this OP, but I do want to say thanks for pointing out what really has been

happening on DU ever since the primaries.

[maxpower]

210. I think you are on to something

I believe they are infiltrating our party, so it bares no resemblance to the Democratic part we know.


Max

[defendandprotect]

220. k i c k

[Jack Fate]

234. I'd recommend if I still could

Centrist Democrats are a big threat to America's future, and need to be crushed. No leniency for Blue Dogs!

[natrat]

239. nice too see people stand up to these cretins

FUCK YOU AGENT MIKE YOU PIECE OF RANCID SHIT