The Drug War requires inner city fear of the police (drug war = tool of poverty)

[mdmc]

Newburgh detectives hampered by people's lies and fears
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100215/NEWS/2150320
In 2008 — the most recent FBI statistics available — Newburgh's seven homicides ranked as the worst in the state when projected for 100,000 residents. Another four people were killed in 2009, and 2010 saw its first homicide before January was half over.

Of those 12 killings, four so far have led to convictions on charges of murder or criminally negligent homicide. Two led to convictions outside the killings. Two are in the midst of court proceedings now. Four have yielded no arrests.

Solving the cases takes knocking on doors, dozens of interviews and sometimes hundreds of interviews. Detectives sometimes have to interview the same people three, four or five times to get scraps of information. Here's the truth: All that CSI forensic science drama accounts for a tiny percentage of police work. It's also rare that one or two witnesses can tell the whole story. More often, it's chasing down the moving pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

"Some people just don't want to give up the piece they have," police Chief Eric Paolilli said.
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some people wonder why the inner city isn't filled with snitches and police informants.. well it is..
But the drug war creates an unregulated market where violence is the only solution to disputes..
The drug war requires a violent community. It is the way it must be. Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction and the drug war is a tool for poverty..

[Fumesucker]

1. It's really ironic how Americans can easily see that alcohol Prohibition lead to violence..

And yet seem to be completely convinced that it's "drugs" driving violence now..

I see that mistake made even here on DU constantly.

[Odin2005]

3. It's racism, obviously.

[Fumesucker]

6. I'm not so sure..

I think seventy plus years of lying government propaganda has had a major effect, most Americans simply cannot imagine a world without the drug war, it has become such a part of our life and way of thinking that it's nearly impossible for most people to sort out cause and effect.

It's obvious even in people who should know better, my physician former brother in law drank a good bit more than was good for him but was convinced that cannabis was a dangerous drug that would lead to death if used.

[Uncle Joe]

29. You can see the effects of propaganda even here, if someone makes what someone else considers an

outlandish statement, the retort "put down the bong or doobie" is posted as a natural dismissive response, I've never seen anyone post "put down the bottle or can."

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. I think it's more than that

Our low income communities just happen to be populated by minorities. The problem is the war on the poor.

[mdmc]

4. imho, i think i can prove that inner city violence is fueled by the drug war

easily, imho..

[timtom]

8. Operant notion being, of course, "drug WAR"

You are so correct.

[HillbillyBob]

10. Just a speculative observation

The gangs during alcohol prohibition affected mostly whites so something had to be done as in legalizing and controlling/taxing.

Marijuana was not criminalized until mid or late 1930s if I recall and it was racially motivated against African Americans and Mexican field workers. The meme being that they would get high and rape white women.

[mdmc]

you are correct..

[Fumesucker]

13. But pot has been a middle to upper class white drug for forty plus years now..

Cocaine also..

[mdmc]

14. but rich (white) people don't do the time..

Obama did the drugs but didn't do the time.. ditto with Bush..

The drug war is against the poor. The rich continue to get high, the poor do the time..

[Fumesucker]

15. I don't think Obama was rich or white at the time he was doing drugs..

And his hypocrisy on the drug war is one of the reasons I can't much warm up to him.

[mdmc]

17. You are right - he was not

but he was still protected.. still neat and clean and out of the ghetto..

[Odin2005]

2. K&R

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. For many years now I have had at least one student every year who has a parent in prison

All are non violent drug offenders.

My school has a partnership with the local police patrol for the sole reason of teaching our kids that police are not always bad guys who bust down your door and arrest the grownups you love.

A month or so ago, I did a lesson with 8th graders about their elected representation and asked them each to write a letter to their state representative. 90% wrote letters complaining about police brutality. A couple kids even used the term "racial profiling". The other letters were about trash in the community.

We aren't going to do a damn thing about crime in the urban core until we do something about the idiotic drug war and the war on poor immigrants.

[Fumesucker]

9. Who do the kids believe, you or their lying eyes?

"My school has a partnership with the local police patrol for the sole reason of teaching our kids that police are not always bad guys who bust down your door and arrest the grownups you love."

It's hard to argue with direct personal experience, we aren't making war on drugs, we are making war on people.

I'm not aiming this directly at you, I know you mean well but if you get these kids trusting the cops it could end up badly for some of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. How could trusting cops end up badly for them?

I'm not following you.

[Fumesucker]

12. I guess you haven't read any of the "never talk to cops" threads?

I saw my own daughter get railroaded on her seventeenth birthday by cops for something she never did. If she hadn't married the son of the local sheriff a few years later she would probably have had a totally bogus drug charge on her record for the rest of her life. Her father in law straightened out the mess and it took him a great deal of string pulling to do it. My daughter never even found out about the drug charge until she was denied a concealed carry permit some years later.

And we were lower middle class and living in suburbia.

[mdmc]

16. the unregulated economy makes the cops a tool of the gangs

Gangs run their turf and offer protection. Since this protection is "above the law", it is more effective then what the police have to offer.
If a kid tells on a drug dealer, they will end up being identified (drug dealers have a right to confront their accuser), and the gang will retaliate.
The cops have no power in the ghetto - they can't offer any protection and they don't have any resources to reduce poverty or the drug trade.
The cops are overworked and underpaid. Plus, the only way the cops work is through the court system - so if you trust the cops you then need to trust the court system (and anyone who know anything knows we have the best court system in the world, if you have the resources to protect / defend yourself properly).

In the end it is better to act normal, say nothing. The cops will either get their man, or they won't. Many in the ghetto see the reality of poverty and justice and decide to keep their mouths shut..

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I agree but we need to change that

Ending the drug war would be a big step in the right direction.

[mdmc]

20. until we end the drug war it is unrealistic to think that those

that live within the unregulated drug market would ever trust the cops. It cannot happen. It will only happen when the police make an concerted effort to end the drug war and make the inner city less violent.

In NYS, for instance, we have are prison guard union fighting for stiffer jail time for all crimes. We have the construction union calling for stiffer jail time for all crime.

We have rich people buying drugs, poor people selling drugs.. In Newburgh we have more poor minority kids go to jail then go to college.

The only way out is to change course..

[Fumesucker]

21. The drug war will never end..

There really has been just too much fear mongering, you can see it here on DU on every thread about meth..

Meth is the bathtub gin of drugs, it only exists because of the drug war, just as bathtub gin only existed because of alcohol Prohibition.

But getting people who have been propagandized not only for their entire lives but even their grandparents and great grandparents were propagandized to understand that is basically impossible.

We are up to about five generations of propaganda now and it has seeped so deeply into the psyche of America that the great majority of us simply are incapable of imagining a world without the drug war.

[mdmc]

24. you are correct fumesucker

even if we de-decriminalized all drugs there would still be a unregulated drug market - there always will be..
the trick is to get as much of the economy out of the hands of gangs and into the official, regulated economy..

[Echo In Light]

18. K&R

[Bennyboy]

22. My own personal story....

Step son with a big pot deal going down. I walk into the middle of it. Two "inner city youths" decide to rob it by pulling guns on the "suburban kids" and trying to take the weed and the money.(about 10 thousand)

I ran, one of the "inner city youths" told em to hit the ground, i did, and he stood over me, pointed the gun at my head and pulled the trigger. The gun jammed.

The "Suburban" kids scatter, the suburban supplier and his friend start shooting. 357 mags, at the inner city youths as they flee.19 shots.

Then they take off after the inner city youths in their SUV while I am putting the bed between me and the door.

The cops came. made me the criminal, handcuffed me for 8 hours while they waited for a warrant.( I was NOT going to let them flip my house). The cops interview the suburban kids that were involved and they all told a different story as to the reason the robbery took place. None of them were arrested, not even the "Supplier" who, with his assistant's help fired off 19 rounds all over the neighborhood. The cops lecture me on what a horrible parent I am, by not having my step son in school and letting him have the house to himself all day with tons of friends over.

I talk to the cops and ask them about this type of crime and they tell me this kind of stuff happens all the time over pot (The kids had a friends killed about 6 months before over pot). They tell me it happens all the time because of the laid back nature of pot heads. they don't expect to encounter gun wielding tweekers. And they tell me it is almost always "inner city youths" versus "Suburban kids"

A couple of weeks later, they find one of the inner city youths that tried to rob the deal and arrest him.(the one who tried to kill me).

They subpoena all of the suburban kids to testify against him.

Only a few show up. And all with a different story. The ones that don't show just get taken off the list. no nothing ever happened to them.

By the time the trial starts, I have told the story a million times. To the DA. To everyone I know.

I go to the trial and the :"inner city youth" doesn't look nearly as "inner city" any more. Gone are the pants on the ground, the cornrows, the multiple piercings. Slacks, hard shoes and sweater. From Snoop Dogg to Bill Cosby.

The Public defender spent the entire time trying to make me out to be a criminal and a racist. Really the most awful experience I have ever experienced.

The witness's story are all widely different as to the reason (pot) this all goes down. In CA they don't let you in the courtroom if you are a witness so I didn't know the other kids (the ones that showed up anyway) testimony nor the defendant's. The now not so "inner city youth" is acquitted, partially due to my bad witnessing skills.

The inner city youth spent 8 months in jail awaiting trial, and for me that was about right. What wasn't right was the "Suburban" supplier and his assistant, who did most of the shooting, did not do one second in time or have any repercussions for not showing at the trial or shooting up the neighborhood..

I don't even care, I am thinking I can put the whole thing behind me. During this time I started to have really bad panic attacks and severe depression and all I wanted to do was get past it.

One the one year anniversary of the original robbery a guy serves me with papers. The guy who tried to shoot me, was arrested tried and acquitted was now suing me for 2 million dollars. He was using the story told by the other witnesses to tell a tale that I was robbing him. And instead of a pot thing, it was over my poster collection. The really funny thing about that was I hired an attorney (as did another of the "Suburban kids") the rest all ignored the complaint and eventually got their names dropped from the suit. I had to hang in there and see it to the conclusion. And the conclusion was they confused me on the original complaint with my step son who strangely was not named in the suit.

****************************************Some thoughts from all of that?***********************************************

That these "inner city youths" were willing to kill or be killed to steal a few thousand dollars. I cannot relate to that. at all.

that pot being still illegal for the majority of people in CA that smoke it despite the MMJ laws. Worth the price of gold at the time. People steal gold, always have. always will.

I will never ever never report a crime in progress or any of that. Never will I got to court to testify. I will ignore it. If someone sues me, I will ignore it. There is nothing you could possibly due to make me go through that again.

The disparity between "Suburban kids" and "inner city youth" in regards to the police is incredible even in Sacramento. The white kids were all chilling with the cops and were let go within an hour of the original incident. A manhunt ensued for the "inner city youths". I thought everyone there was just as guilty as the next guy just for the stupidity of the whole thing.

My racism. When i saw these "inner city youths" I immediately thought, Oh uh bad news. they were sagging, they had cornrows,tats, sideways hats, athletic jerseys etc. I thought for a second about letting them inside... but I also thought "Well that could be Allan Iverson too", so I invited them in. Not sure I would do that again. (or AI).

Since then "inner city youths" scare the shit out of me. I get all panicky, especially when i am in a sketchy situation or are alone with them. I don't like that at all, but now the fear is real.

And for the younger people, the criminality of weed is incredible. that scene is right out of the Godfather. For me Weed was never like that, still isn't. It is more of folksy thing, getting it from the growers etc..But the kids are involved and for big money. and the criminality is what makes it so valuable, and invites crime like the one above.

[mdmc]

26. thanks for the reply

thanks for posting your story..

[ipaint]

23. Follow the money.

Prisons in partnership with corporations make millions on prison labor. It's a huge industry and the modern equivalent of slavery. They need a steady supply of primarily minorities but anyone poor will do, people that the middle class scorns and think they need to protect themselves from. I think the last statistic I read is we have 2% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners.

Private for profit prison are step towards cementing in place the availability of very low cost labor to corporations here in the US.

[mdmc]

28. +

[Greyhound]

25. Pretty good summation, K&R.

The constant escalation of violence in the name of this travesty has destroyed our communities. Now it's just isolated individuals living in groups.

[mdmc]

27. thanks for the reply

peace and low stress greyhound