WSJ digs up 17-year old photo of Kagan playing softball to announce her nomination

[Bluebear]

A spokeswoman for the Wall Street Journal said today its cover art was not intended as innuendo about Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan's sexual orientation after the paper's front-page use of an image of Kagan playing softball provoked a mixture of irritation and amusement from gay and lesbian advocates.

"It clearly is an allusion to her being gay. It's just too easy a punch line," said Cathy Renna, a former spokesperson for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation who is now a consultant. "The question from a journalistic perspective is whether it’s a descriptive representation of who she might be as a judge. Have you ever seen a picture of Clarence Thomas bowling?"

The vintage of the image, released by the University of Chicago, was a particular source of questions in the context of persistent, public chatter about the nominee's sexual orientation. This isn't exactly a whispering campaign, as the question -- no longer particularly scandalous -- has made it to the Washington Post and widely-read websites. White House officials have denied, on background, that Kagan is a lesbian.

"I think it's strange that you'd go back 17 years to dig up a photo of someone who's one of hte most photographed women in the world today," said Jenna Lowenstein, communications director for the National Stonewall Democrats.

"Personally I think the newspaper, which happens to have the largest circulation of any in the U.S., might as well have gone with a headline that said, 'Lesbian or switch-hitter?'" grumbled the Dallas Voice's John Wright.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0510/Softball_question.html?showall

[Duer 157099]

1. I take it to mean she will play softball on the court

Walk the center line, that sort of thing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I did too

[Duer 157099]

38. And my second interpretation was: "She's up to bat"

or something like that. It's totally apropos, someone who is "on deck" for the Supreme Court.

I would never have thought "lesbian" from that photo. But then, my female gaydar apparently does not work too well (I didn't know Rachel Maddow was gay until I heard her talk about it).

[alfredo]

79. Mine was, Hey Scalia bring your ugly mug over here.

[rbixby]

143. I just figured she'd be the designated batter

on the SCOTUS softball team. They have one, right?

[Dappleganger]

2. I was a cacher in fastpitch softball...

and have the dents in my shins to prove. Does that mean I'm a lesbian??

Pssst...I played volleyball and basketball, too! Dh is gonna be soooo excited, LOL!

[depakid]

87. Ms. Depa was a pitcher

One is well advised to avoid snowball fights with her.

[LisaM]

3. They did the same thing to Harriet Miers

it's just silly.

[LARED]

4. Wow, people read a lot into a picture

"It clearly is an allusion to her being gay.

I clearly don't get it?????

[Bluebear]

6. Wow, just curious how you explain the odd choice of photo?

[gratuitous]

15. No more curious than this photo of John Roberts

Which I'm sure the WSJ would have run if he had ever been nominated to the Supreme Court:



Not that there's anything wrong with this photo.

[Bluebear]

18. OK thanks for your perspective!

[Warren Stupidity]

113. And that was on the front page of a major newspaper while he was up for nomination?

I don't recall that at all. Please provide the link showing that a major newspaper did this.

[elehhhhna]

157. no, it wasn't, and that's his point

[LARED]

29. What's odd about it? nt

[Bluebear]

35. Gee, nothing at all. I'm sure when they post photos of Wall St execs they're sports action shots too

Nothing mirroring their actual professions.

[anigbrowl]

44. sometimes they are

Do an image search...almost all the pictures of Kagan are exactly the same, all that changes is the color of her suit. At least this is a bit more interesting than 'lady giving a speech' which is what everyone else has been using. Offbeat photography in the WSJ isn't unusual in my experience.

[Bluebear]

46. I see. Are the execs all 20 years younger in the photos too?

[anigbrowl]

50. It varies. Why are you demanding evidence of a trend from a single data point?

You can browse the WSJ at the newsstand or library without paying anything to Rupert Murdoch, which is how I usually read the paper copy (for the same reason). The editorial policy on photos seems pretty wide-ranging...and in this case, it expresses the subject's personality a lot better than some cookie-cutter picture.

[Bluebear]

51. I don't know, email the commentators quoted in the OP and ask them.

I'm sure you have to be right about this. Later.

[anigbrowl]

53. So because someone else says it, it must be true?

the WSJ has already used several 'standard' portraits of her in previous coverage. It's a fair bet that anyone who reads it already knows what she looks like. What would be your suggestion for a distinctive photo?

She's widely photographed now, as one of the people in that story observes, but pretty much everyone seems to be taking the same picture...boring. Perhaps they wanted some angle other than 'former Harvard Dean', and cameras aren't allowed into the Supreme Court. So please, go nuts with your photo selection and show me one of the many pictures they could have printed instead.

[Bluebear]

54. You said the whole thing is stupid & the WSJ was just fine. We get it. Later.

[Nye Bevan]

58. Yes. He complimented a WSJ photo. He is obviously a freeper.

Good job sniffing him out.

[Bluebear]

59. /ignore

Enough.

[anigbrowl]

61. No, I didn't say that at all. I pointed out why other interpretations might also be valid.

Nowhere did I say I thought the objections were stupid. I'm just not convinced they're correct.

[marshall]

60. It's no more suggestive than this photo of Clinton

<>

If the softball photo is some kind of suggestion about Kagan's orientation, it's certainly a lot more down low than the ham handed references to Mary Cheney that dropped like boulders a few years ago. Maybe we're becoming more adept at our innuendo?

[Bluebear]

129. I don't get it, is that photo of Clinton 17 years old?

[underpants]

8. I do. That is surely the point

see lots of people equate softball to lesbians.

There have to be lots of photos of her (from the White House to Harvard) that they could have chosen

[Bluebear]

11. It was either Supreme Court Justice or truck driver or PE teacher.

:eyes:

lol...those who will not see.

[Rex]

14. I did not know that!

I've heard golf as part of a lesbian stereotype but not softball.

[LARED]

28. People equate softball to lesbians? Really??

Who knew.

[Nye Bevan]

42. Wow. In my almost 50 years on this planet

I have never met *any* of these "lots of people" who "equate softball to lesbians".

I guess I need to get out more.

[underpants]

56. Jock locker room "humor"

trust me, you didn't miss much

[Bucky]

75. You probably never connected golf with serial filandering either. Oh you're so naive.

Let me explain it for you. See this picture of John Paul Stevens playing baseball?
Whoever published this photo is clearly implying that he likes it reverse cowgirl style. It's obvious!



also billiards = anal

[Nye Bevan]

80. "billiards=anal"

:rofl:

[Forkboy]

102. Watch the movie Sick: The Life and Death of Bob Flanagan, Supermasochist

You'll see in all too glorious detail just how accurate "billiards=anal" really can be....

[snooper2]

125. ROFL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rocktivity]

27. You're half right

Running a story about the picture gives Politico an excuse to re-broadcast the rumor.

x(
rocktivity

[anigbrowl]

41. Yeah, too much...I thought it was rather a nice picture in fact

The financial press often employs a degree of whimsy in such things, on the assumption that their readers already know perfectly well who she is and expect something more interesting than the standard wire-service biography.

[revolution breeze]

118. People today want to be offended

I think it is a great picture of her and shows she is a normal person. Great picture for getting public support behind the next Supreme Court Justice, we want people to know she is one of us, not some stuffed shirt sitting on a pedestal making life decisions for us. Those thinking it is an allusion for her being gay are the people who perpetuate the stereotype!

[muffin1]

122. Yes,

because the WSJ is often interested in showing democrats in a flattering light. :eyes:

And I'm sure the gay folk here who experience homophobia first-hand (on a daily fucking basis) are happy with your statement that THEY are perpetuating the stereotype.

Don't you have something better to do than to chastise victims of discrimination? Isn't Fox & Friends on right now?:hi:

[revolution breeze]

127. Excuse me

My daughter is a lesbian. And I am African American. We experience discrimination "on a daily fucking basis"(your words here). The gay folks are not perpetuating the stereotype, the people like ou who think softball playing is a stereotype are.

Is Fox and Friends on your teevee?

[muffin1]

136. YOU were the one who said people WANT to be offended.

You are the one who thinks it's a 'great picture'. Again, since when does the Wall Street Journal go out of their way to paint dems in a flattering light?

I'm sorry you and your daughter have to suffer at the hands of racists and homophobes. I'm trying to point out that they are using a political dog-whistle to disparage Kagan. EVERYTHING in politics is done for a reason. They are not trying to make her 'look good'.

[revolution breeze]

138. But WE are playing into their hands.

I refuse to look at that picture and say "Oh , look at the lesbian", I see "Wow, a normal person being nominated to the Supreme Court, Our president is BRILLIANT." We are smarter than them!

[muffin1]

139. Again, I am not looking at the photo and saying that.

The WSJ printed the picture to elicit that reaction from their loyal readers. They know what they are doing.

I wish the country WAS evolved enough to see a strong, athletic, accomplished woman. But it's not. Not by a long shot. And I don't feel that calling them on their BS is playing into their hands.

I guess we see things differently.

Cheers.

[revolution breeze]

140. Are we going to let them win? Let's play their game!

I plan to take the picture to work with me today and point out what I have already said. She is a normal woman, strong, athletic, accomplished, someone we need on the Supreme Court. I will encourage my friends, co-workers and others to contact our Congresscritters and support this nominee.

[DevonRex]

How can you not get it when Bluebear was very clear? Softball has always

been used as an allusion to women being lesbians. It's been that way for years. There are rumors that Kagan is gay on the internet. And the WSJ digs up a 17-year-old photo of her playing softball.

The WSJ just gave a wink and a nod to Focus on the Family and the AFA who just announced they were against Kagan and think a homosexual is unqualified to sit on the high court.

[QC]

146. Isn't it amazing how many hardcore politics junkies suddenly

don't understand such basic political concepts as "dog whistle" and "whispering campaign"?

I find it hard to believe. Are people just pretending to be this naive because they don't want to be accused of believing the stereotype or something?

[DevonRex]

163. I think they're intentionally trying to push buttons here. It's inexcusable

as far as I'm concerned. When someone tells you or me a new piece of information we say thank you and that we hadn't known that before. This guy? Not so much.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. I wish people would use 17 year old pictures of me more often.

[Nye Bevan]

7. Sorry, I'm missing something.

What is the connection between playing softball and lesbianism?

And what does Clarence Thomas bowling have to do with this?

[Bluebear]

9. 'And what does Clarence Thomas bowling have to do with this?' - is this sarcasm?

[WinkyDink]

17. Here's what you are missing: 1. A stereotype; 2. A sarcastic analogy.

[customerserviceguy]

19. There's a stereotype

that women who play sports are 'tomboys', which is the old code word for lesbian. I get it.

[Nye Bevan]

36. My wife and daughters play softball.

So do many of my daughter's friends. I am no homophobe but I would bet that several of these women and girls are not lesbians.

I guess I need an updated list of offensive stereotypes.

[Bluebear]

37. When your daughted becomes CEO, will you expect them to post a photo of her softball days?

Or are you being deliberately obtuse here?

[Nye Bevan]

40. I would be delighted if they did.

She's quite a player.

But for some reason many posters on this thread seem to think that the only acceptable picture of a woman is one with no (gasp) "Tomboy" connotations. Because somehow (even in 2010) "Tomboy" suggests "Lesbian"!

Amazing that so many posters seem to think that it is only acceptable to print a picture of the nominee in crinolines and doing needlepoint or picking flowers.

[Bluebear]

45. Yes, it's amazing. Whatever. PS her picking flowers or needlepoint would be idiotic too.

Later!

[Renew Deal]

69. I think that's the problem here

Not so much the possibly subtle sexuality angle. I just don't think the picture is relevant for a front page.

[customerserviceguy]

43. Yes, many women play sports these days

It's just an ancient stereotype from before about 1980 or so. It works with the types of old fogies who read the WSJ.

The pejorative 'tomboy' was simply a slur designed to keep women from playing sports. I'm glad that just about everybody under the age of 50 has rejected it.

[Nye Bevan]

52. Yes. I guess many of the DUers who seem so outraged are probably in their sixties or seventies

It seems unlikely that this photo would jump out at "stereotyping" for the younger generations whose daughters play sports and who may have co-ed softball leagues at their jobs.

I guess I should make allowances for the older generation who seem to assume that there is something "mannish" about girls playing sports.

[EFerrari]

107. You'd be further ahead to become literate in the tropes of the culture

especially because the chances are your daughters will have to deal with them.

[Goblinmonger]

133. The "softball = lesbian" stereotype is alive and well.

I teach high school. Trust me. I hear comments in the hall every year.

And at least in the Midwest, soccer = gay because in our state it runs in the same season as football which real men play.

[Goblinmonger]

130. My neice is a very good high school softball player

She doesn't want to play college softball because she thinks everyone at college will think she is a lesbian.

[Demit]

110. No, 'tomboy' was not an old code word for lesbian. Not in my corner of the world anyway.

It just meant a girl who liked sports & played them instead of playing with dolls. Nobody shrieked & tore their hair out & labeled us anything. Sheesh.

[customerserviceguy]

119. I suppose you think

that 'sissy' was not a code word when applied to boys, either.

[Demit]

121. Good supposing.

Look, maybe where you grew up these were known code words. Maybe somebody outright told you they were code words and told you what they were code words for. In your community, wherever that was. I am telling you—as a former tomboy—that in my neighborhood, in my large eastern city, these were not code words for anything.

A tomboy was a girl who didn't play with dolls & who liked to play sports. A sissy was a boy who didn't like to put up his dukes and fight when he was challenged. They weren't code words for sexual orientation. There were other names kids were called in my neighborhood and in my parish—my sphere growing up—like 'brain' and 'four-eyes' and 'teacher's pet', and they weren't code words either.

So maybe it's a function of where you grew up, and how small & tight-assed & worried about being different your community was, but in my community I was not made to feel shame at being called a tomboy any more than being called four-eyed.

[Goblinmonger]

131. Of course "tomboy" and "sissy" are code words

They are used to describe someone who does not conform to the stereotypes of their gender. How is that not clear to everyone? Saying "you're a sissy" is a little less brash and little less offensive version of "you're a fag."

[Demit]

153. No. Not of course. Maybe in your surroundings. Not mine.

I know where I grew up. it wasn't suburbia. It wasn't utopia. It was a pretty gritty neighborhood. It was real. And we didn't need code words. Don't tell me 'of course'. It might be true where you grew up. Not where I did.

[customerserviceguy]

155. The difference between us might lie in the definition

of "code" words. I moved to the East Coast a bit more than three years ago, and I have noticed that name-calling as a form of affection seems to be more prevalent here. If your background is such that people could fling around terms like 'tomboy' and 'four-eyes' and still remain friends, then maybe what I've said about code words is outside of your experience.

Where I came from, those words were used to intimidate someone into not being too smart, or too athletic, or too domestic. They were attempts to put someone into a stereotypical box, and crush their individuality. Homophobic insults have been used for this purpose for quite some time now, and even though the youth of today might seem to be less prejudiced than their elders, they still like to use the label 'gay' to put something down.

Maybe it's all in how the speaker and the listener interpret it that makes it different in various situations.

[SoCalDem]

49. A common perception is that women who play "man-sports" have got to be lesbians

sports like:

golf, basketball, softball, tennis

of course sports like beach volleyball, track & field & surfing are not included since the media always loves those cute little tight outfits & bikinis they wear in those sports:puke:

I am surprised the media has resisted the comparison with that photo & a Rosie O'Donnell resemblance

[Old Troop]

10. I think it makes her look young, energetic and down to earth

[Bluebear]

12. That's great, I'm sure she would enjoy knowing that!

I think that is exactly why the Wall Street Journal ran it, to show how energetic she is!

[Old Troop]

63. I agree that the WSJ probably meant it in another way, but

don't you think many people will just think; "hmm, an athletic SC nominee? I've never seen that before"?

[muffin1]

137. Maybe some will think that.

The people they are trying to reach will say, "See? I knew she was a dyke". That's why they printed it, and that's why we're pissed.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. Yeah I'm sure that's exactly why the WSJ ran it.

:eyes:

[marshall]

16. Is playing softball some secret lesbian past-time?

I'm not up on my pop culture.

[Bluebear]

20. I don't know, ask a lesbian friend maybe?

[marshall]

24. My lesbian friends play soccer

But I don't think it's because they are lesbians. It's because they like soccer. Most of the women on the team are straight, at least that's judging by the boyfriends/husbands they bring to the games I've gone to.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

21. This is news to me

And I think I'm pretty up on pop culture.

[gaspee]

73. Yes

[troubledamerican]

162. Yes, softball = lesbian, but in this case, softball = code for something else

Weak on corporate crime, weak on civil liberties, and middle-of-the-road on everything else

[tallahasseedem]

22. Wow...

I thought it was a cute headline with a great picture.

Sheesh.

[Bluebear]

25. I know, huh? I'm sure the 3 glbt people mentioned in the article are making much ado about nothing.

[spanone]

26. that's the rupert murdoch wall street urinal

[stray cat]

30. A down to earth person who knows how to get her hands dirty like the rest of us

[chollybocker]

31. Thank god they couldn't find a picture of her eating a muffin.

;)

[Xenotime]

147. That's rude.

[Stephanie]

32. Tomorrow they'll have a close-up of her sensible shoes

[Liberal_in_LA]

64. lol n/t

[Prism]

33. And yet, no pic of her in front of the Indigo Girls tour bus

You know the sad thing? This isn't the first prominent softball photo I've seen of her since I started reading up on her nomination.

[Bluebear]

34. As you can read, though, there's nothing odd about the photo whatsoever.

Just a bunch of GLBT commentators being too sensitive, I reckon.

[Ignis]

70. Did these people sleep through the past few decades?

Or do they simply not understand dog-whistle politics?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

[Rhythm]

116. +1,000,000 n/t

[Bluebear]

132. Thank you.

[Ignis]

150. It should be no surprise by now. No one saw Time's OJ cover?

[Lex]

39. I used to use it as a euphemism years ago

as in, "is she on the softball team?"

[Bluebear]

47. However

You mix a little of teh gay into it, and all of a sudden the WSJ is everyone's favorite paper lol!

[old mark]

48. I thought maybe it had to do wirh her being a METS fan.....nt

[Nye Bevan]

55. Well, I guess the message from this thread is that there will always be a few Neanderthals among us

who can't look at a picture of a woman playing sports without immediately starting to ponder about her sexual orientation. After all, playing sports is just... not.... *ladylike*!

Pretty sad. Especially on DU. And in 2010.

[Bluebear]

57. Yeah, that was exactly the message that the GLBT commentators in the OP had in mind.

They're such Neanderthals.

[Paladin]

62. I'm Not Believing The Excuses That Are Being Made For This Photo, Here.

Some of you people need to develop some small measure of cultural and political awareness and recognize this picture for the dirty, right-wing, homophobic insult that it so obviously is---you'll be seeing it on posters at Teabagger rallies in a matter of days. As if the WSJ couldn't have found and used a more current and dignified depiction of this country's latest Supreme Court nominee.....

[QC]

65. I believe it. n/t

[woo me with science]

68. "dirty, right-wing, homophobic insult "

:wow:

[Nye Bevan]

71. So when you see a picture of a woman playing softball you think "Lesbian Sex".

That says more about you than it does about the picture.

[Paladin]

159. I'd Tell You To Try To Grasp The Obvious Context Of All This......

....but I think it would just be a waste of time. If you're happy deluding yourself into believing that this is just another "picture of a woman playing softball," be happy in your ignorance. And be happy in the company you're keeping, by the way---Joe Scarborough couldn't agree with you more......

[Odin2005]

94. No, this says more about YOU then it does anything else.

Little different then the Religious nuts that obsess over sexuality.

[TexasObserver]

66. The Wall Street Journal is a bunch of right wing jack offs.

[Renew Deal]

67. I don't get how this has to do with sexuality.

I don't think it's the best picture to use since it's neither relevant or current, but I still don't get how this encroaches on her sexuality.

[X_Digger]

81. Me either.. it's a better picture than some I've seen.

It emphasizes her youth (youngest justice on the bench, if approved,) it's showing her smiling, it's not from an unflattering angle, or highlighting her current shape.

[muffin1]

111. That's the point.

It's neither relevant nor current. So, why run a 17 year old picture of her playing softball?

It is code to the haters out there. It's something they can snicker about and then say, "What? We didn't do anything! It's just an interesting picture".

[gaspee]

72. Oh yeah, it's innuendo

As a lesbian softball player, I believe it's innuendo. And for those who don't know that it's innuendo... where the hell have you been? It's a pretty old stereotype.

Though not so stereotypey... 3/4 of my college softball team were gay... at least 3/4 of my adult women's league are lesbians.

It's old, familiar and not a bit subtle.

For those saying that their daughters play softball and aren't gay... well... if they stick with it past the age of 20 or so (excluding college) you should maybe ask them then.

[Nye Bevan]

76. My wife plays and she is over 20. Do you think she is bisexual? (nt)

[gaspee]

78. How would I know, she's your wife.

It's an old stereotype that women who play softball are gay. A lot of them actually are. The question is whether the article meant it as innuendo. I believe it did. For you to say that you know women who aren't gay who play softball completely and conveniently sidesteps the question.

Ask a gay woman about the softball stereotype.

[eShirl]

82. +1

[Paladin]

160. Well Stated, Gaspee. (n/t)

[BrklynLiberal]

74. Just another Rupert Murdoch rag.

[Arkana]

77. "Now, Ms. Kagan, imagine that the ball is Jeff Sessions' head."

[tammywammy]

83. I did not realize there was a softball/lesbian connection

Learn something new every day.

BTW, I just though it was a reference to "batter's up" since she's up for the slot.

[TwilightGardener]

84. Subtle.

:eyes:

[WCGreen]

85. At least she doesn't have a "wide stance"....

[seabeyond]

86. silly me. i didnt realize softball meant lesbian. i will take yawls word for it

but i was clueless.

[Bluebear]

89. Who knows? The White House said it is a "lie" and a "smear campaign", so she must not be.

But yawl stay tuned, now, ya hear?

[-..__...]

88. No need for a batting helmet...

a Nolan Ryan fastball wouldn't even make a dent in that kevlar hair.

[fishwax]

90. oh, I'm sure it's just a coincidence

:eyes:

We've got right wingers demanding that she affirm her orientation, since in their minds being gay would disqualify her from the court. And meanwhile we've got a right-wing rag running an out-of-date picture of her playing softball. But I'm sure the right-wing rag didn't mean anything by it. They're just demonstrating that girls play sports too!

Yes, Virginia, there is a stereotype about softball players, and just because there are lots and lots of straight softball players out there doesn't make the WSJ's choice of photos in this context any less suspicious.

[Radical Activist]

91. It's only a silly stereotype.

I'm a man who has dated three women who played on the softball team in college.
Two of them are back to dating women again. :)

[Bryn]

92. I will look for an old pic of me playing softball when I was 17

I played softball when I was in high school and in college. Does it mean I am lesbian all along without knowing it?

:woohoo:

[Bluebear]

103. Only you can answer that :)

[Ms. Toad]

112. It is not an image of her at 17 playing softball,

it is an image of her at roughly 33 playing softball, and the point isn't whether she is a lesbian - but what the WSJ intended to imply by selecting that particular image.

[Odin2005]

93. Since when does "Woman playing Softball" = "Lesbian"?

:wtf:

I think people are seeing things. :eyes:

[LeftyMom]

95. Stereotypes are stupid. But they exist.

[Odin2005]

98. I have NEVER run into that stereotype before. EVER.

The sexual orientation of my athletic female peers was NEVER questioned, and if anyone said such a stupid thing among my peers they would be laughed at.

[LeftyMom]

101. Just because you haven't heard it, it doesn't mean everybody else who has is making it up.

[Odin2005]

115. Oh, of course. I was just shocked because it seems so... stupid!

:wow:

[EFerrari]

104. Oh, lord, I have. And why do you think they didn't use a nice shot of her

in her office or at a professional function or at a minimum, one from this DECADE?

[Bluebear]

105. 'one from this DECADE?' is what everyone is missing

Which is why I used the phrase "dug up".

What possible intention did they have for using a photo nearly 20 years old?

[EFerrari]

106. This thread is pretty hilarious.

lol

[Starry Messenger]

97. It's an old stereotype.

It exists.

http://gawker.com/5535425/is-supreme-court-nominee-elena-kagan-really-a-lesbian

She played softball: When she worked at the University of Chicago, she played softball. There are pictures to prove it. Sorry, but softball=lesbian

I went to an all-girls Catholic school back in the day and I remember the softball=lesbian stereotype as well.

[Odin2005]

99. It must be before my time.

I'm 24 and I've never even fathomed such a stupid association, let alone heard of it before.

[Starry Messenger]

100. Well, that article is from 2010.

So it is still being perpetuated by contemporary media.

[Ms. Toad]

114. It's actually not such a stupid association

The two teams I played on as an adult were predominantly lesbian, as were many of the teams we played against. It's less of an issue these days, but for women of my age (and Kagan's) many of us didn't want to spend our times in bars, were relatively athletic, and found it a great alternative to a dark smoke filled boozy cave to hang with our peers - or meet other women who wouldn't be offended if we asked them out on a date.

Doesn't mean that every woman who plays softball past college age is a lesbian - but the stereotype is not completely disconnected from reality.

And - as Bluebear and others have suggested, the point isn't whether she is lesbian, but what the WSJ intended by choosing a 17 year old photo that was completely unrelated to the news story, particularly after the speculation had already started that she was a lesbian.

[Rhythm]

120. I found the same assumptions/stereotypes for a lot of women's sports

Especially softball, ice hockey, and rugby. The teams i played on back-in-the-day (think anywhere from 10-20 yrs ago) were comprised of a vast majority lesbian and bisexual women, though there were a good number of straight gals as well. Playing sports was a great way to meet people without resorting to the bar scene, and even the straight gals on the team became like extra sisters due to the on-field camaraderie.

As far as the pic of Kagen goes... yeah, this is a dog-whistle thing. And not a surprising one, considering the source.

[Ms. Toad]

142. Defintely rugby - and that even applies to college rugby

just ask my college age daughter whose (lesbian) buddies are all on the college rugby team. No personal experience with ice hockey - but it doesn't surprise me a bit.

>>Playing sports was a great way to meet people without resorting to the bar scene, and even the straight gals on the team became like extra sisters due to the on-field camaraderie.<<

That was kind of the point I was making. With team members, even if you guessed wrong about sexual orientation and asked out someone who wasn't interested, it wasn't a big deal - the way it might have been if you guessed wrong and asked out a co-worker, for example. In another similar group I was in, I was the token straight - or so I thought at the time. My buddies - who were all lesbians (clue #1 to self) - made sure to "defend" me from anyone they thought might hit on me - including my spouse of (now) nearly 30 years.

[EFerrari]

108. We had a girls' athletic org after school twice a week in middle school

and I still remember catcalls from the departing buses when we stayed behind and suited up. That was in the late 60s/early 70s. I didn't even know what a lesbian was for another five years. LOL

[HughMoran]

96. She looks like my ex-wife

Short Jewish woman with short hair playing softball :shrug:

[Major Hogwash]

109. I hate the WSJ now more than I ever did. Murdoch makes me sick to my stomach.

I really appreciate this thread, man. I am so sick of the innuendos, the backstabbing, the pointing of the long, bony fingers and the whispers and jokes at other people's expense!!

It's not funny. I can't laugh about it, and I am so pissed off about people doing this sort of thing to someone else it makes me want to puke.

The GOP can't treat other humans like humans, they don't want to be a part of humankind.
They just go after anyone that doesn't fit some weird idea of what a real good person is in this country anymore.

I didn't know that Kagan was 5'3" until I watched John Stewart's program last night.
My dad's mother was only 5'0".
My mom was 4'11".
Senator Boxer is 5'2" or something like that.

John knocked it out of the ball park last night.

[CBGLuthier]

117. If she would pose for pictures with plates of cookies we would not have these problems.

I mean honestly, what century is this again?

[Bluebear]

126. Now that you mention it, the photo they chose of her is NOT from this century.

Why?

[Hubert Flottz]

123. FOX Street Journal

About as credible as Baghdad Bob on a bad day! Doing the Devil's(rupert's)work

[dancingme]

124. Sarah Palin played school sports

did the WSJ run a photo of Sarah Barracuda on the front page the day after McCain chose her? Oh wait, I forgot, Sarah Palin had many children so she couldn't possibly be ...

[Bluebear]

128. No, but, good point. They did not run 20-year old photos of her posing as a Miss Alaska contestant

[BurtWorm]

134. If that was actually the WSJ's intent (and I wouldn't put it past them)

the sad irony is, the critics are doing all the heavy lifting for them in calling them out so explicitly. If they hadn't said a word, or if they'd just said, "What a strange choice for a Kagan pic, WSJ. Why the fuck did you make it?" I wonder what would have resulted. Well... you would have eventually gotten someone to say what these orgs are saying, I'm sure, most likely some blogger no one reads. But now it's become front-page in itself and it's doing the job the WSJ photo editor may have wanted it to do, far better than he (or she, doubtfully) could have planned.

[Bluebear]

135. Maybe so. But the critics chose NOT to stay silent.

Enough is enough kind of thing, ya know?

[BurtWorm]

141. I do know.

In the long run, I don't think Kagan's sexuality (whatever it be) will play a role in whether or not she's confirmed. On the other hand, the only people who will know how much a role it plays are the assholes in the Senate.

[rbixby]

144. Doesn't all this ridiculous outrage just play into the hands

of the people seeking to make her sexual orientation an issue?

[anigbrowl]

148. Maybe. I wouldn't call it ridiculous, but overblown at the least.

One reason I think so is that speculation about whether Kagan is gay or not was already rife and had appeared in several mainstream newspapers before the WSJ printed their softball picture. The conservatives seem to have assumed it's true since she's 50 and single, and their attempt to make an issue out of it has inevitably received some coverage.

So I'm not sure why GLAAD et al reacted so strongly to this picture, as if it were some veiled threat or coded message seeking to make public something that would not otherwise have been discussed. If they wanted to suggest she is, they could just run a story headlined 'Rumors swirl about Kagan's sexuality' or '_____ questions Kagan's objectivity on gay rights' (and indeed, I won't be surprised if one of their op-ed troglodytes writes such a column). It's been openly discussed since the middle of April, when a blogger on the CBS website suggested she was, absent any evidence. I seriously doubt any WSJ readers picked up the paper yesterday and gasped 'My god - she's into softball, and that can only mean one thing!'. You know, what's the point of a dogwhistle when it's been openly discussed for a month?

The whole thing reminds me of when they ran a picture during the 2008 election of McCain & Palin showing only their shoes (either the one below or a similar picture) and the Freepers went on a tirade about imagined sexism, blaming the 'liberal WSJ front pagers'. Conservatives like the right-wing op-ed columnists in the WSJ but view the fact-based reportage in the rest of the paper as some kind of liberal plot, as if the editorial writers were somehow barricaded into their offices. They also complained about the WSJ running a photo of Palin doing debate practice at McCain's ranch following a string of disastrous early interviews.

[Bluebear]

149. "Ridiculous outrage" - Thank you for your pronouncement.

[Nye Bevan]

151. "Ridiculous outrage" indeed.

I simply cannot understand the mentality of so-called Democrats whose immediate reaction to seeing a picture of a woman playing baseball is to scream "OMG! Lesbian sex stereotype!" and to run to their computer to post their outrage on the internet.

Like many of the other posters in this thread I thought it was a good picture. Who needs to see yet another picture of the Justice-to-be in a business suit?

[muffin1]

154. You must be so proud

to be on 'Team Joe and Mika'. They had the exact same reaction as you. And why can't you get it through your head that WE don't jump to conclusions that any woman who plays softball is gay? I played softball years ago, and I'm pretty sure I'm not gay.

A lot of the public does make that connection, though. I (like another poster above) cannot believe that political junkies act like they've never heard of sports-minded women being labeled as gay. Yes, the same goes for driving Subarus, wearing Birkenstocks or plaid shirts, wearing keys on one's belt, and sporting short hair and no make-up. I've heard these 'jokes' all my life, as a woman with very short hair.

I asked you this before, and never got a reply:

When have you EVER known the WSJ - or any RW rag - to do anything to flatter a democrat? What in the hell makes you think employees of Rupert Murdoch were sitting around saying, "Gosh, let's show some really nice pictures of this fabulous woman that Obama has nominated to the Supreme Court"?

[Nye Bevan]

156. Even if the WSJ did intend the picture to be a homophobic slur

doesn't all of the outraged huffing and puffing just play into their hands? Wouldn't it give them less satisfaction if we all just said "cool photo- she looks great" (as many DUers did) and move on to something else?

[Ikonoklast]

145. Well, from the looks of that pic, I can make a few valid observations.

1.Her weight is too far forward on her left foot, she should be a little less evenly distributed in order to transfer her weight forward off the back foot in the act of swinging, bringing power into the swing. Hard to do accomplish with your weight forward, or standing flat-footed like that.

2. She is dropping her right elbow. She should keep it straight out from her shoulder, and should pull that left elbow in tight against her body. Holding the bat in the position she has it in now will result in an inside-out swing, dropping the bat head, and instead of a nice, flat swing through the strike zone, she'll be underneath the pitch and pop-up more frequently.


3. Bat should be held just a little further back from verticle, not too much more. She's pretty close, but holding it back a tad more gives more time in the swing, bringing more power, with no room to 'wind-up' before swinging the bat, which wastes energy and time. It's always better to already be in the proper position before the pitch than jerk into it just before swinging.

[marmar]

152. "was not intended as innuendo about Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan's sexual orientation"

What a load of bollocks.....The Right-Wing Hack desk at the WSJ knew exactly what they were doing.

[EFerrari]

158. Yeah, they were loading the bases for Morning Ho this a.m. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

161. as if there's any other reason for them to choose that pic other than what is standard - a face pic,

or one of her talking with the president. It's so obvious they're alluding to the fact they want people to realize WHO he's nominated! Like, "you see this shit??!!"

pretty obvious to me, but not everyone gets these things easily. Thanks for the thread.