Is 'openly gay' not a redundancy?

[BurtWorm]

I've seen it used about 100 times today alone. Maybe it's always used that way, but I didn't notice it until today. But doesn't gay mean, "openly homosexual?" So doesn't "openly gay" mean "openly openly homosexual?"

[Duer 157099]

1. I thought "gay" just means homosexual n/t

[BurtWorm]

3. Apparently that's what it's coming to mean.

But originally, it meant (correct me if I'm wrong) "out of the closet." It was considered a political act to call yourself gay. It meant you weren't hiding anymore. You were proud and out.

[JuniperLea]

8. "closet gay" is also used a lot...

I worked for a gay couple for many years... one called himself "the happy homosexual" and didn't care who heard him. The other was afraid it would be bad for business if people knew, so he was very much closeted and called himself a "closeted gay" on occasion, meaning he felt forced into the closet.

I tend to use the words people use for themselves... safer I think.

[BurtWorm]

16. That's why I'm asking the question, to clarify it.

It struck me as odd when I read it first thing this morning. Then I saw it in an entirely different context later in the day. I'm just trying to get a handle on a word that has changed meaning in my lifetime.

[Scuba]

30. They're just trying to be devisive

[NoNothing]

2. Only bigots use the word "homosexual"

Or so I've been told.

[BurtWorm]

4. I haven't heard that.

It's a cumbersome word, much moreso than "gay" for sure. And clinical. But bigoted? I don't know about that.

[Bluebear]

27. Invariably, BurtWorm. And usually pronounced homoSECCCCCTchewal.

[BurtWorm]

28. From that chewing homo sect?

:crazy:

[JuniperLea]

10. Someone mean told you something mean...

I think.

I've never heard such a thing... and further, I've heard many gay men use the word.

[NoNothing]

12. Yeah, well, I've heard lots of black people use the "n-word"

Doesn't mean it's not offensive when I use it.

[Bucky]

17. Now you're just spit-balling it.

It's okay to say "Oh, then I was mistaken." Most people construe such a statement as a sign of self confidence.

[JuniperLea]

19. I'm quite sure I would stand corrected when I use it...

Or would be warned not to use it in "polite" company.

I live in Long Beach, CA, where being gay is like being tanned... you are either one or the other or both in this town. We have an amazing annual gay pride parade and festival too.

I'm really quite sure I would be "corrected" on this if it were a problem, or if they thought any of their friends or acquaintances thought it would be a problem.

[Bucky]

15. Third in line to tell you "not true."

[katzenjammers]

20. Well, the word is technically an adjective, NOT a noun although it's commonly (mis)used

that way. I'm gay and I don't find it to be pejorative although I rarely use it myself except in more or less clinical discussions.

[BurtWorm]

23. It has a facetious little kick to it, in my experience.

It's such a ridiculously clinical word.

Welcome to DU, by the way. :toast:

[ET Awful]

31. Really? Does the same theory apply to homo sapiens as opposed to human?

"Homosexual" is merely an accurate, clinical term. Now if you'd said only bigots use the word "homosexual" followed immediately by the word "agenda", I'd agree with you.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Gay and homosexual are synonyms. No real distinction. (Gay is preferred)

The word homosexual is kind of like 'negro' was in 1970 in relation to 'black.' Still in use but approaching being offensive.

[Duer 157099]

7. What I *really* don't understand is the use of "gay and lesbian"

Now to me, that sounds redundant.

[JuniperLea]

11. I wonder if that's regional or something...

Because the gay men I know use it all the time.

[BurtWorm]

14. I don't know many instances of people using the clinical term for the demographic, that's for sure.

I thought (apparently wrongly) that there's the gay population that can be determined because gay people are open to being counted as gay. Then there's the population of "non-gays" if you will which includes an indeterminate amount who might one day become gay--ie., "openly gay"--but who aren't willing to be so counted right now.

[Bucky]

22. Kinda sorta. Problem is that there's no finite definitions here. People exist on a continuum

There's gradations of gayness, or of gay self-identification. Unless it becomes a census item in 2020, there's just no way to concretely say x number of people fit into category A, y number in category B, & so forth. Some people are willing to be counted as gay for a pride parade, but not for work; they'll be counted for a petition, but not for a family reunion; for a church denomination, but not for a local political convention.

Where we stand now, it's really not quantifiable.

[I Am So Me]

6. reply

No, just being gay doesn't mean you're openly gay. There are plenty of people who are gay that keep it secret for fear of retaliation. For example, some people who speak out against homosexuality are actually homosexuals themselves.

[Lex]

9. Gay doesn't imply being "out" or "open."

Someone can be gay and be in the closet.

[BurtWorm]

18. I could swear the meaning has changed since the 1970s.

Unless I didn't understand what it meant back then. But I think gay used to mean something like what "out" means now, but there was a kick of pride in it, like relief that you didn't have to hide your identity anymore. It was like a hand being held out to others in the closet to come out and join the movement.

[Bucky]

25. Exactly right. It's a flexible, indeterminative word that rapidly evolves in meaning & connotation.

I don't think you can even get 5 linguists to precisely and exhaustively agree to what the word means.

[Bucky]

13. It's an emphasizer, like with "Kith & kin" or "Hearth & home"

There are people who are gay on the DL. They self identify as gay, but they keep it a secret at work. That's different than true closet cases where they deny they're gay, maybe even to themselves, but then act out their sexual compulsions with people of the same sex, like Larry Craig. Larry Craig is a straight man who just likes to get his groove on with other men. But he's living the straight lifestyle. That's quite different than my friend H., who is gay socially, but keeps that entirely secret from the people at the hospital he works at.

[Romulox]

21. No, it's not. A trip to m-w.com could've answered this as easily as a thread. nt

[BurtWorm]

26. It wouldn't have been as fun though.

:P

PS: Dictionaries tend to miss the way some words are actually used. That's for *your* reference.

[Lasher]

24. I'm gaily open

Does that count?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

29. no. some gay people are "in the clostet"