If this doesn't put a smile on your face, just go ahead and resign from the human race.

[11 Bravo]

It's an eight month old baby who has just received a cochlear implant, hearing his mother's voice for the very first time. Damn, I think I got a piece of dust in my eye!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/open-thread-55

[damntexdem]

1. Oh darn, I smiled! Now I don't qualify!

Besides, where does one get the resignation form?

[bobburgster]

29. Oh, that's precious!

Thanks!

[jaxx]

2. Awww that was beautiful.

[woodsprite]

3. Thank you for posting. We need more smiles in this world! n/t

[nichomachus]

4. Cochlear implants are highly controversial in the deaf community

Especially when implanted in children. There are some people in the community who are dead set against them.

[Deep13]

5. And for no better reason than opposition to teaching sex ed. or evolution. nt

[nichomachus]

7. No, I think there are more reasons than that

[Deep13]

24. Like what? nt

[Posteritatis]

43. I occasionally see terms like "genocide" trotted out re: cochlear implants

Of course, the ones who are that wacky about include the types of "parents" who want to deafen their children if they can hear.

[11 Bravo]

6. I'm aware of that. This mom and this baby appear not to share that aversion.

But thanks for checking in.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

9. They feel that their "language" is being taken away

That's why the Deaf community is so dead set against it. It is one of the reasons why ASL use is declining among deaf children. (ASL programs are starting to be cut throughout the states)

[yewberry]

13. And their children. And their culture. nt

[pnwmom]

21. Their children deserve to have their own future, unencumbered by their

parents limitations.

[yewberry]

36. So the "kill the Indian, save the child" theory, eh?

From one perspective, it's still cultural genocide.

Some Deaf people don't see deafness as a "limitation."

[dionysus]

46. FFS

:eyes:

[BrklynLiberal]

53. ditto

[peace frog]

139. Geez Louise

:crazy:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

59. Oh for god's sake...

It is not genocide.... you're like the nth person I've seen call it genocide and it's not. I've seen plenty of capital D deaf people say it's not a limitation and then later state they get disability allowance, etc. I makes me roll my eyes.

And my parents got death threats from the capital D community.

My very good friend, Dr Cornett, advocated development of new tools. He felt Cued Speech (which he invented) was a tool to use until a better one came along and that's the Cochlear Implant.

To call it genocide is just stupid.

[damntexdem]

61. Save the culture by teaching it to the child, especially to communicate a deaf parent.

Use the implant to give the child hearing. Any parent may need to deal with a child's developing interests and, yes, abilities that the parent lacks.

[pnwmom]

74. I'm sure any deaf parent would teach all their children to sign from birth

just as hearing parents speak to their children from birth.

[pnwmom]

73. It's not genocide. Deaf people can still teach their children to sign from the moment

they're born. The children don't need to be deaf themselves in order to be part of the culture, any more than the children of gay people need to be gay in order to feel part of the culture.

[JDPriestly]

112. I have a severe vision impairment.

It was not discovered for many years. I lived with it. If someone could have done something to give me normal sight when I was infant, I would be so grateful today. So I think these implants are a real gift.

[tblue37]

119. Yeah, but a lot of us do see it as a real handicap. Of course, I can function in

most (not all) situations with very strong (expensive) state of the art digital hearing aids.

Although I have been hearing-impaired all my life, my condition is progressive, so I have been deafer in the past 20 years than I was as a younger woman. I have never been part of the self-identified "Deaf" community. (I am "deaf," not "Deaf.") But as someone who has struggled with hearing impairment my whole life, I can assure you that being deaf does limit what I can do--even though I function so well despite my hearing loss that most people don't believe at first that I am as deaf as I am--and they actually argue with me about whether I am really deaf:

"Oh, Tina, You Are Not Deaf!":
http://deafnotdumb.homestead.com/notdeaf.html

(BTW, in that article I mention wearing $1,500 worth of hearing aids. Those aids don't work for me any more--they are far too weak. The ones I wear now cost closer to $4,000!)

(Another BTW: the Deaf hate the phrase "hearing impaired," but many who are deaf rather than Deaf consider it entirely appropriate.)

Deafness runs in the female line of my family. My mother, her mother, and her mother's sisters were all deaf. All three of my sisters also have hearing impairments. Mine isn't even the worst--I have a younger sister who is even deafer than I am.

I have a website about coping with deafness in a society full of "hearies," who typically consider our hearing problems to be annoyances and who are not very considerate of what is, after all, an invisible handicap, even though the Deaf insist it isn't a handicap at all.

My website is I'm Listening as Hard as I Can!:
http://www.deafnotdumb.homestead.com/index.html

Most (though not all) of my articles are humorous. In one, "Don't Tell Me I'm Not Hearing-Impaired!" I take up the issue of whether hearing loss is a handicap:
http://deafnotdumb.homestead.com/pc.html

If my hearing gets much worse, I imagine I will have to go to cochlear implants. I dread that happening, but I dread worse the idea of not having even the small amount of hearing I now have, which at least can still be boosted with strong enough digital hearing aids.

As for whether it's fair to choose CIs for children before they are old enough to choose for themselves, the time when a child can learn spoken language is a relatively small window of opportunity. Parents who choose CIs for their kids do it so their kids can hear while they are young enough to reap full benefit from it. Neither of my kids had hearing problems, though I worry about my now 29-year-old daughter, since there is always a chance she will someday succumb to the family hearing loss. (My youngest sister didn't suffer hearing loss until she was 47, and then it got very bad very suddenly.) But if either of my kids had been deaf enough to need CIs, I would have made sure they got them. They won't implant CIs in anyone who can still benefit from hearing aids, so a kid (or an adult) who gets CIs is profoundly deaf and not able to be helped with hearing aids.

[Patiod]

150. Thanks for providing your perspective

always good to hear from people who are actually impacted by an issue.

Oh, and by the way, you're not really deaf, are you? (just kidding - enjoyed your website and your stories about your students saying this)

[tblue37]

170. Technically I am not really "deaf," since I have enough hearing to

be able to use hearing aids, though they must be very powerful ones. I am extremely hearing impaired, or in PC terms, I suffer from extreme hearing loss. In some ranges I am profoundly deaf and in some just very deaf--while in a few ranges my right ear is just moderately deaf.

But it is easier to just say "deaf" than to try to explain degrees of hearing impairment to someone who has no experience of it. I am certainly deaf enough to make nomal conversation impossible unless I make sure that my interlocutor is aware of my hearing issues so that they can face me, speak clearly, let me read their lips, and be prepared to repeat themselves sometimes.

[liberalhistorian]

161. And, as a hearing-impaired person myself who

uses hearing aids, I call that complete, utter, total, wholly BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. I have never and will never understand these people who insist their own children suffer through the kind of daily shit those of us with hearing issues must face, when they can easily be corrected. I would give ANYTHING to have normal hearing and not have to wear hearing aids; and, no, it has nothing to do with the astronomical cost of the damn things and the amount of work it takes to maintain them. If my son had shared my hearing difficulties, I sure as shit wouldn't have demanded that he just suffer with it because it was a point of "cultural pride" or some such stupid horseshit. That is, plain and simple, nothing less than child abuse.

Now, that's not to say that having any kind of hearing issue makes you somehow less of a person or any less capable and competent and worthy as the "normal" hearing person. No way and far from it. But it sure doesn't rise to the level of "cultural pride" where it would be "genocide" to utilize any corrective measures as well. That kind of bullshit has always really pissed me off. And I think I'm more than qualified to comment, given that I'm in that "group" and know what I'm talking about and what I deal with on a daily freaking basis. I just thank God for closed-captioning now and the fact that all tvs, including in hotels, now have them. Now, if only we could get closed-captioning for movies, I'd be all set, lol.

[tblue37]

172. I live enar Olathe, Kansas, where they have a school for the deaf. One movie theater in

Olathe has closed captioning for recent films--but I never actually end up going there. I just wait until they come out on DVD or HBO and watch them with closed captioning. If a movie is one I really want to see on the big screen, I will go to the theater and just accept that most dialogue will have to be guessed at or caught later on DVD.

I saw Avatar on the big screen, but I had just gotten my powerful new digital aids, so I actually caught about 60%-70% of the dialogue. It was astonishing to have that exprience.

[Raineyb]

72. From what I understand they don't consider their deafness a limitation.

At least that's what I get from the lessons in deaf culture that I got in my ASL class. And I don't think the community would appreciate your characterization either.

[pnwmom]

78. Sorry, but it is, just as very poor vision is a limitation.

The blind community has never resisted any scientific advances that promote vision, and the deaf community shouldn't oppose advances that help people hear.

If these parents are concerned that their children won't be part of their culture, then they need to teach it to them, from birth -- but their children don't need to be deaf in order to learn sign language or to feel connected to the deaf community.

[Raineyb]

144. You go with your ignorance of the culture and tell them that. I'm telling you how THEY

see it as I've learned it.

Arrogance and ignorance is a very ugly combination.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

167. We deaf people know what their "culture" is like

Let me tell you, it isn't very pretty. I have gotten into arguments with my friends over the use of sign language and the term "culture" to describe their grouping. I believe the "Deaf Culture" is a very narrow aspect of society who refuse to accept further changes.

And even though I never learned sign language at a younger age (only know the basics), I am always expected to know it because that's a stereotype of deaf people. I'm currently trying to wrest that stereotype from people, working to reduce the amount of sign language used in public services and use an easily scheduled service of CART. Also, there are many people here who believe that deaf people cannot read, that's another stereotype I am out to kill big time.

That's what sign language has wrought, illiterate deaf people. It's a damned shame you cannot see that.

[Arkansas Granny]

166. I agree. My father was blind and even though he could do carpentry,

auto repairs, animal husbandry, worked as a steel bandsaw operator for many years, and performed many other activities that are usually associated with sighted persons only, he considered his blindness a limitation.

Had there been surgery or some other treatment that could have restored his sight, I'm certain he would have utilized it and would never have begrudged anyone else the chance to have vision. I do not understand in the least why a parent would wish to have one of their children be deprived of one of their senses when it could be corrected.

[liberalhistorian]

162. Well, I don't appreciate their coming down on me

because I, as someone with a hearing loss who uses hearing aids, actually want to use hearing aids and see nothing wrong with allowing people to experience the full range of corrective measures for hearing problems, and as someone who thinks they're committing child abuse when they refuse to allow their own children to benefit from such measures. That, frankly, is child abuse.

[proteus_lives]

124. +1

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[11 Bravo]

14. Actually the deaf community is split on the issue. But for Christ's sake, this thread is about ...

a smiling baby hearing his mother's voice for the first time. Can we please just leave it at that?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

17. Exactly

And I have bilateral cochlear implants and I wish this technology had come along when I was this baby's age. The baby has a very bright future ahead of him!

[AngryAmish]

22. Can I ask a question?

How does music sound? Years ago I was talking with someone with the implants and they said music does not sound good. Has the software gotten better over the years?

[blondeatlast]

32. Have we come leaps forward in digital technology? Years ago may as well be

8 track stereo.

Maybe the technology hasn't improved--but I find that VERY hard to believe.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

35. Oh yeah

The first cochlear implant was a single channel CI. Now it's 24 (I have a 24 channel CI, but only use 22 of these channels) and they are now developing a permanent behind the ear cochlear implants!

It's very interesting to see how much the technology has changed!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

34. It sounds good to me

And I'm also finally catching the words (I couldn't tell when the words would come on). I'm also listening to the radio... something I couldn't do prior to the CI.

Some music I don't like, such as my sister's singing! :-)

[pnwmom]

90. How old were you when you got yours? What was it like? n/t

[FunkyLeprechaun]

109. I was sixteen when I first got the CI for my right ear

24 when I got the CI for my left ear. I'm hearing so much better, especially directionally. I think I should put the video of me as my first CI was turned on on YouTube! It was so wonderful and I started to hear little things that I couldn't do before!

It takes a long time to practice listening skills (especially as I was implanted at a later age) but I am catching whole sentences on the radio which is something I had never done before prior to the CI.

The prime age for implanting deaf babies is six months to 1 year because they are still in the learning development for hearing and speech. I've known teenagers who were implanted when they were babies and they are almost like hearing children (talking on the phone, listening to the radio, etc).

I can understand the Deaf communities' fear of their "culture" taken away. I've always been involved in deaf issues and I was the first deaf child in my state to attend mainstream public school after a lengthy court battle with the school district and the Deaf community tried to argue that I'd be happier in a deaf school. My mum and my transliterator sat in on one of the classes there and they didn't like it at all.

You should read the online article on People's website with New Kids on the Block's Joey McIntyre's deaf son. The comments afterwards are quite interesting! http://celebritybabies.people.com/2010/03/26/joey-mcintyre-introduces-son-rhys-edward-and-opens-up-about-his-severe-hearing-loss/ (He was thinking about getting his son CIs and the commentators implored him not to get them big time)

[pnwmom]

118. Thanks for the links, Funky, and for speaking up. I'm glad for you that

you parents were able to support you in this -- all the way through a court battle. They must be strong people and you must be, too.

[tblue37]

122. I often don't wear my hearing aids, because unless I need to understand speech,

I don't like all the background noise that they inevitably amplify. My two kids and my best friends all know how to speak to me to enable me to understand them most of the time even without my aids in (they make sure I know they are talking and then they stand close enough and make sure I can read their lips--which I am very good at).

But every now and then one will say when we are in a store, "Do you like that song?"--forgetting that I have no idea that music is being played.

I bought a car when my old car died at the end of March. I seldom wear my aids when I drive, because a sudden loud noise, amplified by hearing aids, could cause me to startle and swerve in traffic. Since I can't hear sirens on emergency vehicles or cop cars, I have to pay attention in case cars start pulling to the side of the road, signaling me that one is coming, even before I can see it in the rearview mirror. (I drive very attentively.)

Last week I was tutoring, and since I needed to get to my next tutoring session quickly, I didn't have time to take out my aids before driving from one session to the other. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the radio has been on in my car since I bought it on March 27--over 2 1/2 months ago! I had never even heard the slightest sound from the radio, but with my hearing aids in it seemed pretty darned loud.

[liberalhistorian]

163. I know what you mean about aids amplifying

everything; it drove me nuts, too. I mean, I didn't need to hear people shuffling papers and whispering at meetings, having that drown out the actual speaker, and I especially hated it at gatherings of more than a few people, like parties and family stuff, talk about a headache!

But last month I got new hearing aids, with the newest digital technology, and the difference has been phenomenal. It has settings for different types of situations (one-on-one or small group, restaurants, parties), and greatly reduces background crap while amplifying the voices you really want to focus on. I've been wearing aids for 25 years, since I was 20, and this is the first pair I actually really look forward to wearing. The technology is getting better all the time and I look forward to an even greater set of aids seven or so years from now.

[tblue37]

169. My aids are advanced digital types, but they still

amplify a lot of noises I don't want to hear. I think it is partly because I am so deaf that I have to have such extreme amplification as my baseline.

[pnwmom]

89. I've heard that an implant works better the younger an age at which it is installed.

[truebrit71]

26. No effing shit....

..there's always one isn't there? :grr:

[dionysus]

45. it's DU man, what do you expect?

:(

[Odin2005]

25. Those of us in the Autism rights comminity are frightened by things like this.

First they are destroying the Deaf community, then are we next?

[nonconformist]

30. Are you joking?

[BrklynLiberal]

33. I fervently hope so.

[Book Lover]

84. Until you are part of our community

keep your ideas out of it. We who care for people on the autism spectrum, as well as people on the spectrum, have had to create a safe community space because there is no space for us in the community of the normal. Until humanity eliminates prejudice against those who are different, let us create these communities and don't pass judgment on us.

[Odin2005]

91. The Neurotypicalist bigots don't get it.

And they accuse US of not having empathy. :grr:

[Hekate]

94. "Neurotypicalist bigots"--now there's a mouthful for us well-intentioned do-gooders. Not to mention

... a slap across the face.

I'll keep that in mind if you keep in mind that no one -- NO ONE -- is trying to "commit genocide" via cochlear implants or early diagnosis of autism.

Hekate

[Aleric]

135. Then explain it to them.

Impaired empathy does not necessarily imply the lack of ability to communicate an idea.

[moriah]

140. Could you explain it for me?

I can understand not wanting to have a cochlear implant as an adult. Brains are plastic to a point, but learning how to handle the new sensory information is much, much harder in an adult than it is for a child, who hasn't had all of their sensory pathway development completed. I'd actually think the earlier, the better.

I had an intervention at age 6 to correct my vision, since I had a lazy eye. I sure as hell hated the drops and the patches, no joke there. The drops burned, the patches made me look like a dork, and I had to endure it for three years because it started later than recommended. But now I don't have to wear glasses at all, can pass the driver's exam without them -- my bad eye is at 20/40, my good eye is 20/30. It wasn't that my eye wasn't functional, but the visual information from that eye was being ignored. If I'd had it starting at 3 or 4, or even 5, I would have had more improvement quicker because the brain is more plastic then.

Getting the implant doesn't mean that the child can't learn ASL -- and if their parents are deaf, they're going to learn it anyway to communicate with them. Lots of hearing children learn ASL from their parents or to communicate with a deaf relative.

If they found a way to help people with autism without taking away the giftedness of people with autism, would you really want your child to suffer the unpleasantness if they didn't have to but could still keep their intelligence? Honestly I don't think any intervention would work in teens or adults who already have embraced autism as part of their identity.... it'd have to be done as soon as it was recognized. And I don't think that's likely to happen any time soon. But if they did.... you've told before of the suffering you experienced in school, etc. Would you wish that on your child?

[nonconformist]

158. My teenage son has Asperger's. Fortunately, he's very high functioning.

The son of a friend has severe Autism, and he is a non-verbal pre-teen now. He has never spoken and still wears diapers. His mother had to quit her job to stay home with him full time. You think he shouldn't be cured?

Please get off your high horse. There ARE people that have been directly affected that just DISAGREE WITH YOU.

[liberalhistorian]

164. I'm sorry, but as the mother of a son with Asperger's,

and as someone with a hearing impairment who uses hearing aids, I have to comment here. There is a major difference here. I would not have my son any other way; I find his unique, original way of thinking to be fascinating and his creativity has helped him greatly. I would not "cure" him for anything, and I deeply resent those who want to focus on a "cure", and ignore the great benefits of people with such ways of thinking and inventing, at the expense of increasing services and decreasing hateful misinformation, bias and discrimination. I have no problem with him receiving counseling on how to better relate socially and increase organizational skills. It is akin to cochlear implants, hearing aids and other assistive technologies for those with hearing loss. It doesn't "cure" the hearing loss or make it go away, it simply helps them to function better.

Many of our famous scientists, inventors, musicians, writers, artists, etc., had some form of Asperger's or autism, including Mozart and Einstein. The problem is bias and discrimination in society, not with the person with the so-called "disorder." Groups like FAAAS, which promote misinformation and negative stereotypes regarding Asperger's, while advocating for and promoting policies to limit the lives of adults with AS (such as in family law situations and employment) are the real problem.

[JDPriestly]

114. I am different because I had such poor eyesight as a child.

I figure things out differently. I do things differently. I am interested in different things. I am horrible at anything that involves design or visual skills. I would have loved to have had normal eyes from as early a time in my life as possible. I developed a lot of skills to compensate for my lack of vision. But being different is really hard.

Maybe being autistic is a different experience. But I have always felt that I missed something important because I relate so poorly to the visual world. Besides, I bump into things a lot. I have a lot of little accidents. I just never developed the habit of looking for obstacles in my way. I kind of feel my way and hear my way through life even though I have glasses. I got the glasses too late.

So, I'm for the implants. It's not a matter of making everyone conform to the same standard. It's a matter of giving a child a life as rich and varied in experiences as possible.

[pnwmom]

120. I agree with you that vision and hearing impairments are comparable.

We never hear of parents with vision problems wanting to withhold appropriate treatments for their children -- just so they can have something in common with their children.
I would think any good parent would want to do what they could to develop all their child's capabilities, even if the parent couldn't share them.

[pnwmom]

80. I'm sure s/he is not. n/t

[Odin2005]

92. Nope.

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com

[FunkyLeprechaun]

37. If something came along that helped autistic people

You wouldn't take that technology because you'd rather no improvement at all of your child's well being?

[dionysus]

47. zomg... are you serious? you just broke my woo-meter.

"destroying the deaf community"


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Book Lover]

86. Of course. You don't see it, therefore, it doesn't exist and the very idea is hysterical

Do yourself a favor, learn a little. Do a google search on Deaf culture and just read. I'll even say please.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

113. This technology helps deaf children big time

And they are not really part of the "Deaf culture" when they are born, they are part of their own parents' culture, whether it is English-speaking or sign.

I am really surprised with some of the commentators being so anti-CI. You don't want the deaf children to have a brighter future? That's a bit mean.

[11 Bravo]

51. The conjoined twins community is gradually being destroyed, as well.

Damn those surgeons!

[Lucian]

76. I don't understand how being able to hear is a bad thing?

[proteus_lives]

125. Destroying?

Really?

Improving people's lives is destroying something?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

151. Soon they will try to destroy

the institution of marriage by letting gays marry... all us married folk in the 'married community' should be worried.
:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BrklynLiberal]

31. So..Is this a matter of what is best for each deaf child..or what is best for those

who have a vested interest in ASL?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

38. Best for each deaf child

Considering the majority of deaf children are born to hearing families, who are less likely to know ASL.

[BrklynLiberal]

40. BUT..if more children are given the opportunity to hear, they might not need to learn ASL.

I cannot imagine a parent of a deaf child, who would not be enthusiastically willing to learn ASL if that was the way to communicate with their child. If that ultimately turns out to be the best way to communicate with them, they will do it.
I also cannot imagine a parent of a deaf child who would not want to give that child a chance to hear, if at all possible.

[dionysus]

48. but one can hear and still learn ASL...

[BrklynLiberal]

52. as is the case with every hearing parent of a deaf child....

They teach it in high school and colleges now...as an elective.
I know several young people who have taken it..and are not deaf, do not have any deaf friends.
But they felt it was something they wanted to learn.

[dionysus]

55. i went to RIT and we have the largest tech institute for the deaf in the country. lots of students

learned ASL and made side money being interpreters for classes.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

60. I went to RIT's summer EYF 11 years ago

I was interested in going to another university but it was such an interesting experience!

[alphafemale]

111. Most of the girls I knew in HS knew the alphabet at least

We used it to communicate across silent classrooms and noisy buses.

It was as commonly known as Pig Latin.

I've picked up some ASl from deaf friends I've had over the years. Most of it is very intuitive and obvious once you've seen the sign once.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

57. One of the major drawbacks to ASL

Is it isn't linguistically English. In the past, deaf children had really bad literacy skills (in the eighties the majority of deaf high school seniors could not read above a third grade level). My ASL teacher in college complained in the class that he had to read out overheads for his deaf high school students because they couldn't read them.

I think it's okay as a second/third/fourth language but it's not advised to use it as a first language with a deaf child because it delays their learning of the English language. I used Cued Speech when I was younger and my parents were advised to not let me cue as I was learning how to speak the language.

[BrklynLiberal]

62. oh my..I had never heard about cued speech. Just did a search Appears to be very interesting.

http://www.cuedspeech.org/

[1monster]

107. I prefer signed English because it is the same as spoken English in form.

I've never been able to understand why ASL (American Sign Language) is even called American... It is gramatically based on the French language....

[FunkyLeprechaun]

116. Even with SEE

It's still difficult to represent the English language using signs. Certain words such as gorgeous and beautiful use the same sign. If words are spelled differently but have the same meaning, it'd still have the same sign (first and primary, excited and elated, etc).

Complicated words such as scientific terms (ursus americanus,convallaria majalis, sphygmomanometer, Otorhinolaryngology, etc) are so difficult to use in sign language. I had the same physics class as someone who used SEE and whenever a complicated word came along, his interpreter had to look at the blackboard and fingerspell the word.

[eridani]

68. Young children are really good at picking up ASL and other sign languages, for

--the same reason they are good at picking up spoken languages. Hearing children of deaf parents can easily become bilingual. And why stop there? To preserve ASL, teach it to as many hearing children as possible. It's offered as an option by many school districts in WA State, and lots of kids like the "secret language for when parents are asleep" aspect of learning ASL.

There is no advantage whatsoever to being deaf when it comes to learning ASL. People who become deaf as adults have the same problems with ASL that most adults have in learning second languages as adults. However fluent they get, they usually still have an "accent."

[FunkyLeprechaun]

115. The thing about ASL

It is an extremely hard language to learn (I only know some of the basics, such as the alphabet and asking for money and that was a combined 8 month course in ASL). That's why deaf children of hearing parents are increasingly not learning sign language as the technology allows them to learn English and their parents' language. Comparable would be trying to learn French to speak French to your child even if French isn't part of your environment.

In Michigan, they've cut the deaf program at the University of Michigan, citing the drop in ASL usage among young deaf children (people were protesting keeping the courses even though they ignored that fact). In my school district, there used to be 20 Cued Speech transliterators and SEE/ASL interpreters employed by the district when I was going to high school. Now there are none as all the deaf children have Cochlear Implants and use spoken English as their main means of communication.

[eridani]

168. Still, for young kids, "hard" is much easier

I understand there are intellectual benefits to teaching it to young hearing kids as well.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

130. Schools for the Deaf decreasing, Mainstreaming on the rise.

I've known too many people from a mainstreamed environment where they were isolated as the only Deaf kid in the school, having only their interpreter to interact with. So clearly a wrong against the person; blows my mind that people (hearing people and others who view Deafness as a sickness) who support mainstreaming don't see that.

Seems that strictly Oral schools are on the downswing though---seems to me anyway. I haven't met anyone from Clarke School (a rigid proponent of Oralism) in ages.

ASL is a beautiful, expressive, magical language -- the Schools for the Deaf are where the community has sprung from and is nurtured.

there are Deaf opinion vids on YouTube addressing this and Deafness in an audist society.

Google search, AUDISM vids.
**FYI: many Deaf produced are not captioned.**
http://www.google.com/search?q=audism&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=GGYXTL-sN4P6lwe457iZDA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDMQqwQwAw

[blondeatlast]

18. Then they shouldn't have them and I'm okay with letting their kids

make that decision when they are old enough.

Still, I think it's a beautiful moment.

[dionysus]

49. you'd deny babies the chance to hear? really? that's sickening.

[Hekate]

67. By the time they are "old enough" to override their parents' wishes, say 18 years...

... of age, it may be very difficult for their brains to adjust to entirely new inputs. Babies' brains are very plastic, and they are capable of learning more than one language simultaneously -- such as both English and ASL. When it comes to learning language, sooner is better.

ASL is a language in its own right, and Deaf culture is a subculture in its own right -- but there is no earthly reason for parents to deprive their children of access to the big wide world outside, simply because they are afraid their child will grow up different than themselves.

Hekate

[pnwmom]

81. From what I understand, the decision has to be made when they are younger

if the implant is to have the best chance of working.

(Rush Limbaugh could have his as an adult because he'd already been a hearing person. It's different for a child who was born without hearing.)

[1monster]

108. The sucess rate of cohlear implants goes down as the age of the child goes up.

Most hearing experts prefer to do the implants as early as possible and before the child reaches five years old.

[pnwmom]

20. Because they want their children to share their disability. Sounds self-centered

to me.

[Raineyb]

75. Sounds like you don't know anything about the Deaf community.

I'm not going to claim to know everything as I was only fortunate enough to take ASL for one semester in college (Although I would love to take it again) and as a hearing person I certainly wouldn't go so far as to make proclamations about what is and is not best for the community. But you obviously don't know shit about the community, how they see deafness or how they see their language (ASL is a separate language not just signed English) so to go on the way you are is frankly just plain ignorant and of course rather egocentric in that you can't seem to see another person's point of view, an affliction usually attributed to children under a certain age.

[pnwmom]

85. I know about parents and children, and children's needs to be themselves -- even

if that means they move beyond the parents and their "cultural community" in some ways.

Children born deaf are no different than other children in that respect -- they deserve a chance to have all their potentials developed. Should a blind person withhold glasses or surgery from a child with correctable vision problems? Should a severely dyslexic person insist that their child not be taught to read? Should a parent with a clubfoot withhold treatment from a child born with the same condition?

[LisaL]

101. Did you look at the face of this child to see how happy the child is

that he can hear?

[Raineyb]

147. What does that have to do with the way some people are talking about a

community?

Obviously, the parent of that child thought the implant was the best way to go. But that's not what I'm reacting to so the video is a non entity in this discussion. Small children are generally happy just to see their parent that's not going to stop me from letting someone know that they're being ignorant in their post about a community that the poster decided she, not being a part of the community, knows better than vis a vis how they see themselves and what we consider their limitation.

[SoCalDem]

63. and some people who are not.

the child did not ask to be born deaf, and if an implant allows them to develop better communication skills, they are too young to ask, but should have every option available to them.. later in life they can surely have it removed if they prefer to not have some hearing..

[Skittles]

98. so?

you can find people who are against anything

[xxqqqzme]

102. Maybe but this 8 month old sure seems pleased!

That is good enough for me.

[1monster]

104. My stepson went to a deaf high school, and I live in a community with lots of deaf people.

I've never really understood the attitude that would deny a child the oppourtunity to live in the hearing world. They insist that they are not handicapped in any way. (I've been losing my hearing since I was in my teens due to a medical condition and I can tell you with no doubts that hearing impairment and deafness are most definitely a handicap!)

I've heard of a mother who desparately wanted her baby to have cohlear implants until she discovered that she herself wasn't a candidate for cohlear implants because doctors do not believe that any one who has reached adulthood and was deaf from birth can learn to interpret spoken language. Then she became a strong advocate for NOT giving any deaf child cohlear implants.

From what I've heard in the deaf community, those who do not want cohlear implants are afraid of losing their culture... they are afraid they will lose their children to the hearing world and that they will end up more isolated that they already are.

My personal belief: How incredibly selfish. I would never try to restrict my child from an advantage just because I never that the same opportunity.......

[FunkyLeprechaun]

117. One of my deaf friends

Compared the CI to taking away his daughter's hearing. He said he was proud of her hearing, why can't hearing parents be proud of their child's deafness.

I've heard of deaf parents boxing their child's ears to make them deafer (even if they had mild to severe hearing loss). I participated in a panel of deaf young adults a while ago and the very deaf culture young girl had at least some hearing because her deaf father was so angry with me he was ranting quite loudly and it startled her. (Side note, he kept asking me the most ridiculous questions while I was on the panel, mostly along the lines of "Are you happy?" "I bet you don't really have a social life, how do you deal with that?" etc)

[pnwmom]

123. Boxing children's ears to make them DEAFER? That's abuse, pure and simple. n/t

[FunkyLeprechaun]

127. Yep

That's what I have heard. Also, if their child has mild to severe hearing loss (a point where hearing aids can easily be used) they choose not to put hearing aids on the child. As I said, it's important to use hearing aids/Cochlear implants when the child is quite young (as to stimulate what is left of the auditory nerve) as to develop their listening and language skills.

Did you hear about the deaf lesbian couple who chose a deaf sperm donor in the hopes of getting a deaf baby? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1916462.stm Also, there was a deaf couple who hoped their baby was deaf and hoped, via the use of IVF, that they can choose the gene that makes a deaf baby. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/mar/21/health.lifeandhealth

It was very hard for me growing up. I feel my life is so much better because of the path my parents chose for me, and I'm currently doing a MA at a well known university in the UK (a country I couldn't have lived in if I had known just ASL, as their sign language is so different to ASL). I couldn't do Gallaudet because of their very low academic standards (no ACT/SAT scores for admission, a 2.0 GPA was considered a honors level when I looked at them 10 years ago). NTID at RIT was a little bit closer to what I was considering when I looked at universities because I could take mainstream courses at RIT while attending NTID and they were also very open to including other methods while Gallaudet was very ASL-centric. I ended up going to one of the top east coast universities to continue my mainstreamed education.

The improvement of Cochlear Implants give these deaf children the chance of participating in their parents' community. I am so amazed with the generation of deaf children who were implanted at a young age and I met up with one of them, about to graduate high school, and she is so much like a hearing person you'd never notice she is deaf. It's amazing.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

129. yes, it's a very hot issue in the Deaf community.

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

149. Little Jonathan is a member of the deaf community

And little Jonathan seems very much pleased with his implant. I would say he's one member of the deaf community who is 'NOT dead set against them'. :)

[liberation]

153. Huh? What?

[nonconformist]

10. I didn't smile...

I cried! That was beautiful!

[Speck Tater]

11. Recast headline: Baby gets implant, must now tolerate mother's constant nagging.

See. There's always a way to find the dark lining in any silver cloud.

[NoPasaran]

42. How long have you worked for the WSWS?

[dionysus]

50. !!!

:spray:

[inna]

95. on the contrary... that was gratuitous and the opposite of funny, if anything.

:puke:

ETA: referring to the revolting red-baiting post; not to the OP, clearly.

[RT Atlanta]

12. Absolutely beautiful

And all the more special to me since I have a 6 month old at home who brightens my every day.

Nothing beats an open-mouthed grin from a little baby!

Wonderful news for the parents and little Jonathan!

[gorfle]

15. Very cool. n/t.

.

[geardaddy]

16. K and R

[blondeatlast]

19. Sweet! There is nothing like seeing a child discover something new. nt

[truebrit71]

23. Okay..no fair..I am at work...

..trying to hold it together...

[lunatica]

27. I'm human!!!

How delightful!

[BrklynLiberal]

28. The very definition of heartwarmng. What a beautiful smile.

[muffin1]

39. How sweet is that face?

Thank you for posting. It was definitely needed today.:)

[TexasObserver]

41. Thank you! That made my day!

[Blue Owl]

44. Thanks 11 Bravo

k & r

[Vinca]

54. OMG - I really needed that today. Thanks for posting it!

What a sweet little kid and what a great story.

[IrishEyes]

56. Thanks

That made me smile. What an adorable baby.

[Arugula Latte]

58. Score one more for science ...

Adorable baby. His little laugh is heartmelting.

[Smashcut]

64. .

[Smashcut]

65. OMG that little faaaace!!!

:cry:

:woohoo:

[Hekate]

66. That is a 100% wonderful day-brightener! His whole being is wide open to this new experience...

... and he is just loving it. Loves his mommy, too.

Babies' brains are very plastic. IIRC, the speech/hearing centers of a deaf person's brain is activated by the use of Sign -- in essence, language is not dependent on sound.

What is vitally important to the developing brain is that a language be learned early on, with no artificial delays while competing constituencies argue about which language is "best." Babies whose parents speak different languages can be taught both simultaneously, from birth. The best illustration I have read of was of a Japanese mom and American dad who decided Junior should learn both his parents' tongues, so mom spoke only Japanese to him and dad spoke only English. Junior did very well indeed, although he initially spoke Japanese to women and English to men.

Hearing parents of deaf infants have generally done their best to learn Sign, so as to teach their child. By the same token, there is no earthly reason why deaf parents whose child has a cochlear implant shouldn't be teaching that child Sign simultaneously with others teaching the child how to speak.

As to grammar, my understanding of ASL is that linguists consider it a complete language with a grammatical structure of its own, so it makes sense that learning to read and write English would end up being like learning English as a Second Language.

Hekate

[gleaner]

69. Thanks for posting this ...

It is a wonderful heart warming few moments between a beautiful child and his mother who cared enough for him to want him to experience the whole world of sight and sound and how that touches him.

I understand there is a controversy among deaf people about the procedure, but that the last thing these two are thinking of, and I am very glad I saw it.

[sixstrings75]

70. Some of the replies on this thread...

I mean, I'm speechless...

Just. Wow. To deny a helpless a child a chance at a better future to further a BS, poltically correct, dangerous, selfish agenda is blowing my mind right now. Never in a million years would I expect to see people trying to defend keeping people deaf for some kind of cultural reason.

I cannot believe it.

I have now seen 'everything' on DU. It doesn't get any uglier than this.

Thanks for the link 11 Bravo. Teared up a bit myself.

[LisaL]

71. It's very clear from the video how happy this child was

that he can hear his mother's voice.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Yup. Some people will complain about just about anything.

Really. It must suck to be so miserable and foul.

[Book Lover]

82. Yes, how dare Deaf people keep the culture they have created

or have it modified or eliminated by people outside that community.

Please look at the argument from a different perspective. Perhaps you are not fully aware how complete Deaf culture is. As for myself, I would say that hearing is an advantage that I would choose for myself and my child were the choise presented, BUT being deaf is NOT a disaster that must must must be recitfied.

[pnwmom]

88. Deaf people can teach their hearing children, including those with cochlear implants,

to sign -- and they can and should be welcoming all their children, hearing or deaf, into their culture.

Just as gay and straight parents should welcome all their children, gay and straight, into their culture.

[LisaL]

96. I think it's rather obvious this child's parents aren't deaf.

I presume that it is extremely unlikely for people who aren't deaf to prevent their children from getting cochlear implants to preserve the "deaf culture."

[proteus_lives]

126. Why limit the child?

Deafness isn't a life-ending limitation but now that little boy has the chance to be a police officer, pilot or some other career that is closed to the deaf.

I don't understand how a parent could limit their child for their own sake.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

143. How dare deaf people deliberately try to deprive their children of the ability to hear.

There are undoubtedly deaf people who view being deaf as not being a disaster. However, to choose to inflict it on a child when there's a choice is disgustingly selfish and wicked.

Preserving deaf culture is not worth leaving even one curable child without the ability to hear - especially since it's entirely possible for children who can hear to learn to do everything deaf children can do.

[Cleobulus]

173. Why should the wants of the parents outweigh what is best for the child? n/t

[Lucian]

106. No kidding, right?

I would think being able to hear is a GOOD thing! I sure wouldn't want to go without my hearing!

I mean, if you lose you're hearing, you won't hear music anymore, people talking, children laughing, the breeze on a fall day, warning sirens...to deny someone of that is unethical.

[Hosnon]

142. +1. nt.

[BrklynLiberal]

154. +1000

[Warren DeMontague]

79. That's great.

:thumbsup:

[glitch]

83. Thanks, I needed that. :) nt

[FailureToCommunicate]

87. Nice. I was surprised the mother could hold it together. I would have lost it. ( I did lose

it when the nurses finally said our 3 month preemie twins were "out of the woods")

[castleman55]

93. Priceless!

Just plain priceless.

[patrice]

97. .

We need one of these :cry: for happy tears.

[Toucano]

99. Wow. I'm still human.

That feeling lasted for about 45 seconds.

Then I thought about the babies whose parents aren't rich enough to pay for that device.

Fuck!

[kas125]

100. My dad was deaf for my entire life until he agreed to get

a cochlear implant about twenty years ago. He was the first adult in our state to do so back when it was still considered 'experimental'. He lost his hearing when he was 22, so he knew how to talk and how to explain to the audiologists and doctors what he was hearing, unlike a little kid who had never heard sounds before. It's actually because of him, and others like him, that these babies are getting the implants now and every time I see a video like this, I'm so grateful that this technology was invented when it was.

[pnwmom]

121. Good for him! He helped open doors for many.

[1monster]

103. Thank you for the smile. I didn't get something in my eye, but my mouth stretched

from ear to ear. :D

[JI7]

105. watching that was better than i thought it would be

[JDPriestly]

110. Wonderful! Watch how the baby Jonathan watches the mother's mouth

after he first realizes he is hearing sound. She opens her mouth in a certain shape, and the Jonathan studiously opens his mouth in the same shape but without making much if any sound. Jonathan imitates his mother's mouth. It is an immediate, automatic response -- to watch the mother's mouth and then imitate how the mouth moves. And so, that is how we all learn to talk. We listen if we can. We watch if we can. We imitate. Such a little thing. Such a natural thing. So amazing.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

128. Not quite a CI story

My parents were trying to do lipreading skills with me but my language skills were behind for my age (2 years). Then they learned Cued Speech. I wanted to be lifted up into my mum's arms and I was saying "uh... uh... uh...." (I knew it started with a "uh" but didn't know it ended with a p) and my mum said to me, "Do you want up?" I watched the fingers at her lips and finally figured out how to connect the two sounds and said, "up" (Up becoming one of my first words that I could say clearly). Cued Speech gave me a visual image of the English language. I'm willing to bet that Jonathan will be learning how to speak (with therapy at first) like a hearing child when his speech development begins.

[redqueen]

131. Aw....

that is truly precious.

The little mini-trainwrecks in the thread weren't entirely bad either. *roffle*

[Aleric]

132. I can do that? Where do I sign?!

I've been wanting to resign from the human race for decades. Even before I saw Avatar. Where do I sign? Do I still have to watch the video? Babies creep me out - no tails, no fur *shudder*.

[SemperEadem]

133. thank goodness for technology

[Aleric]

134. I'm NOT human!!! Yaaaaay!!!!

Now I can stop feeling guilty for all the damage you humans have done to the Earth and to each other.

[JackintheGreen]

136. I did NOT need that this morning

I'm leaving my own for two months of work overseas this afternoon, and SHE decided she'd rather go to SCHOOL than see me off!

Kids these days...

[Daemonaquila]

137. Unrec.

This isn't news, and it isn't even interesting. People get the implants all the time. Thanks, I think I'll stay part of the evolving human race that doesn't *squee* every time someone invokes a baby.

[blondeatlast]

141. Thanks for your resignation. We'll just make it effective immediately. nt

[11 Bravo]

146. I had to laugh when I read the post you're responding to.

Classic over-compensation. Someone clearly needs to demonstrate how "tough as nails" she is: "Look, I even hate fucking BABIES! I am a true badass!" Comical.

[blondeatlast]

148. My thoughts exactly. I used to teach 8th graders--I know the modus operandi so well... nt

[Aleric]

155. and yet when a man said the same thing

no response. But *she* is female and must therefore luuuuv babies cuz, yknow, she's got a uterus. Anything else is just for show.

[BoWanZi]

145. Just recced this thread and I havent' even watched the video

Just wanted to counter your unrec

[RedCloud]

138. I smiled, so I will re-sign with the human species free of charge...

But I think the billions of microbes on me were unaffected!

[earcandle]

152. Sweet! Oh those wonderf ul miracles we are so capable of.... thank you so much!

[Patriot 76]

156. From the looks of this thread, people have resigned from the human race.

Scary.


Delighted for the baby.

[11 Bravo]

157. Just a couple of them. The "I'm lefter than you" crowd can usually be counted on to show up...

to engage in their favorite pastime (thread-pissing); but as I said, their numbers are relatively small, and not many take them seriously.
By the way, welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Aleric]

160. What choice?

We were told to resign if the baby didn't make us smile. So I guess I've been kicked out.

[11 Bravo]

174. If you do everything you're told, I've got one more for you.

It will be strenuous, anatomically improbable, and possibly painful; but being the oh-so obedient soul that you apparently are, I have faith in your ability to complete the task. See if you can figure it out.

[Aleric]

175. How enlightened of you.

How "evolved" you are. I love it watching humans exhibit the very animal instincts they claim to be above.

[katty]

159. Wonderful!

[rasputin1952]

165. ...

O8)

:hug:

:kick:

[TheKentuckian]

171. Gave the rec yesterday and here is the kick. That was beautiful