Has anyone heard of the CSA 2010? My room mates husband is an OTR trucker....

[icymist]

and he's freaking out about this. Keeps going on about how the Federal government is taking action for just accusing people of traffic infractions. I've found a few links to this 'CSA 2010' which, I must admit, I've first learned of an hour ago when my mates husband wants me to ask people on the DU what they think of it....

http://csa2010.fmcsa.dot.gov/about/basics.aspx

It does seem unfair to the trucker in that if accidents were not the fault of the trucker he would still get penalized by this system just for being there. I also see in the below link that penalties are produced by retroactively searching for infractions before this law takes affect:
http://www.jjkeller.com/CSA_2010/csa2010.htm?action_code=28238&s_kwcid=TC|3215|safety%20measurement%20system||S||5675879042&gclid=CND9vNX82aICFY9M5QodrTMswQ

ATA voices concerns to Congress over CSA 2010 design

American Trucking Associations (ATA) expressed concerns about the current design of CSA 2010 — and how these flaws will affect the industry and highway safety if not corrected — in recent testimony before the House Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Highways and Transit.

Transportation Corporation of America Executive Vice President and COO Keith, in testimony on behalf of ATA, said ATA supports the CSA 2010 initiative in general because it is based on safety performance rather than compliance with paperwork requirements; it focuses limited enforcement resources on specific areas of deficiency, rather than on comprehensive on-site audits; and because it will eventually provide real-time, updated, safety performance measurements.

To address its primary concerns with CSA 2010, ATA recommends that FMCSA:

Make crash accountability or “causation” determinations on truck-involved crashes before entering them into a carrier’s record so drivers and carriers are held accountable only for crashes they cause.
Use vehicle miles traveled (VMT), not number of trucks or power units, as a carrier’s exposure measure.
Focus on using only actual citations for moving violations and not unadjudicated “warnings” issued by law enforcement
http://www.jjkeller.com/news/newsinfo/T_news2983.htm?ticket=9959936042302498346629464553&pageseq=10000

[Warpy]

1. "Retroactively searching for infractions"

means turning up drivers who have a pattern of being cited for unsafe behavior and getting them off the road. That seems pretty prudent to me, even if warnings and not actual citations were issued.

Nobody wants overtired or dangerous drivers on the road, especially when they're driving things like gasoline tankers and tandem trucks. This bill seems like a good way to target limited resources to make sure drivers are getting adequate rest and bad drivers are taken off the road, along with targeting frequent corporate offenders who send their drivers out with substandard equipment.

As for "being there" when there is a serious accident, yeah, it should be on the record. "Being there" for one or even a few accidents isn't a cause for alarm. "Being there" for twenty of them in a short period of time might be.

[icymist]

3. Room mates hubby wants to know what you think of this situation:

A LEO in another state pulls him over for speeding. He proves to the LEO that he wasn't speeding with the use of his GPS system that has all this data, and the GPS won't lie about this, that he wasn't speeding. In fact it show that the trucker was being passed at the time. The LEO decides to give a warning "to save face", in my roomies hubbies own words. The warning is then used against the trucker in this system and there can be no challenge for this in a court of law to have this removed from his record.

As for driver fatigue he wants me to ask why, then do truckers get paid by the mile and not by the hour? Would not fatigue be reduced if they got paid by how many hours they drove instead of by the mile?

[Warpy]

11. The first point would be a relatively rare occurrence

which could be challenged successfully were the trucker's license under threat. I doubt this is a problem that plagues every trucker on every trip.

The second is a valid point and the change should have been made years ago. The fault is the trucking companies that have successfully lobbied against it, not wanting to pay their guys for sitting in traffic, waiting for accidents to be cleared, or stalled for bad weather. The Teamsters should have been pushing for this one all along.

[LiberalFighter]

2. I didn't see anything that indicated that all drivers in the vicinity of a crash

would be held accountable.

They shouldn't be held accountable if they did not cause the crash. But if they in any way were part of the cause because of defective driving then they should be held accountable.

Also, jjkeller is in the business of making money by making their clients believe they may be in violation.

[icymist]

5. I didn't know about jjkeller. Only did a dogpile search of this law....

because I never heard of it before and my room mates husband is internet 'challanged'. He claims that if somebody else cause a traffic mishap that the LEOs will cite every trucker in the area because of this law. Have you heard of this?

[LiberalFighter]

9. I was trying to find that point but didn't in the first link.

More likely they will as one posted make a report of all those in the vicinity as well as those in the area their own statements.

[icymist]

13. The complaint is that drivers will be 'warned' and that counts as much as

actually causing the infraction. There is no court for a warning.

[LiberalFighter]

15. I understand that. But where is that in the law or regulations?

Too many times people make statements without any supporting facts to back it up. That is why jackasses like Windbag and Beck get away with their statements. They make statements and don't provide any facts and people don't have time to do the research.

Again. If they are complaining about this they need to provide the documentation to support their claim. And then and only then can action even be attempted.

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. There is no way in the world the LEO's....

"will cite every trucker in the area because of this law."

On what grounds? If a driver is 100 yards away, driving on the same roadway but in no way part of an accident, he can get a citation? For what? Being a trucker on a sunny day?

Your friend is letting his paranoia run away with him.

I drove OTR for 20 years and have a total of 23 years tractor trailer driving experience with more than 1.5 million accident free miles under my belt. Your friend is worrying too much.

This scheme has its flaws with one of the most glaring that I found on page 8 of this PDF;

http://csa2010.fmcsa.dot.gov/Documents/SMSMethodology.pdf

Section 2.1 "The CSA 2010 team developed the BASICs under the premise that CMV crashes can be traced to the behavior of motor carriers and/or drivers."

Yeah? All crashes? If not all, how many? It is my experience, and I have read studies that support this, that in the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of crashes involving a heavy truck and an automobile, the driver of the car caused the accident. There is no doubt that driver fatigue is a cause all too often, but one thing I've learned over my more than two decades of driving 18 wheelers; More often than not, when you see a truck off in the ditch or jack-knifed, the driver of the truck put it there while saving the life of a car driver.

Either way, tell your roomies hubs to stop worrying. Just keep it between the lines, don't speed, and do his job like the professional he is.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. I guess I don't see much to get riled about. If I'm trying to weed out bad drivers, I would want to

know if there were multiple warnings issued as well as any citations. The courtesy and carefulness of OTR drivers has changed greatly in the last 40 years as trucking companies put more and more pressure on them.

[icymist]

6. I think he's more concerned of a matter of fairness here.

You know, things like to be able to face your accuser in court.

[liberaltrucker]

10. That's PRECISELY why I left the road

The company forcing me on a load when they knew
damn well I was tired. I'm all for getting bad
drivers off the road, and hopefully CSA 2010 will
make companies more accountable, but I'm not gonna
hold my breath.

[icymist]

12. Roomies hubby says that CSA 2010 is not aimed at companies, but drivers.

Why do you think they're counting 'warnings' that haven't been adjudicated?

[sinkingfeeling]

14. Warnings don't go to court and roomie's husband hasn't read the information at your

first link. http://csa2010.fmcsa.dot.gov/yourrole/motorcarriers.aspx

"and both driver and carrier safety performance are monitored."

[hlthe2b]

7. Well, I thought you meant Confederate States of America 2010

and thought this was going to be about another loony secession fringe group....:shrug:

So, while I know you are concerned about the trucker violation issue, I suspect that will offer a more logical solution. ;)

[Deep13]

8. "Make crash accountability or “causation” determinations...."

Just a quick caveat:

Don't confuse fault with causation. If one car rear-ends another car at a red light, who caused the accident? Well, they both did. Both vehicles needed to be at the intersection for the collision to have occurred. Despite this, only the driver behind is at fault for failing to maintain a safe distance between cars. The driver in front could not control how much space was between them.