"Would you pledge your virginity to your father?"

[Bluebear]

OK, is is just me, or :scared:??

And why aren't young men being asked to sign these chastity contracts?




It’s like a wedding but with a twist: Young women exchange rings, take vows and enjoy a first dance…with their dads. “Purity balls” are the next big thing in the save-it-till-marriage movement. Smart or scary?

In a chandelier-lit ballroom overlooking the Rocky Mountains one recent evening, some hundred couples feast on herb-crusted chicken and julienned vegetables. The men look dapper in tuxedos; their dates are resplendent in floor-length gowns, long white gloves and tiaras framing twirly, ornate updos. Seated at a table with four couples, I watch as the gray-haired man next to me reaches into his breast pocket, pulls out a small satin box and flips it open to check out a gold ring he’s about to place on the finger of the woman sitting to his right. Her eyes well up with tears as she is overcome by emotion.

The man’s date? His 25-year-old daughter. Welcome to Colorado Springs’ Seventh Annual Father-Daughter Purity Ball, held at the five-star Broadmoor Hotel. The event’s purpose is, in part, to celebrate dad-daughter bonding, but the main agenda is for fathers to vow to protect the girls’ chastity until they marry and for the daughters to promise to stay pure. Pastor Randy Wilson, host of the event and cofounder of the ball, strides to the front of the room, takes the microphone and asks the men, “Are you ready to war for your daughters’ purity?”...

The majority of the girls here are, as purity ball guidelines suggest, “just old enough… have begun menstruating….” But a couple dozen fathers have also brought girls under 10. “This evening is more about spending time with her than her purity at this point,” says one seven-year-old’s dad, a trifle sheepishly. The event is seemingly innocent—not once do I hear “sex” or “virgin” cross anyone’s lips. Still, every one of the girls here, even the four-year-old, will sign that purity covenant....

When it’s time for dads and daughters to take the pledge (some informally exchange rings as well), the men stand over their seated daughters and read aloud from parchment imprinted with the covenant: “I, , choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity….” The men inscribe their names and their daughters sign as witnesses. Then everyone returns to their meals and an excited buzz fills the room...

Following dessert—chocolate cake or fruit coulis for the adults, ice cream sundaes for the girls—couples file into the adjacent ballroom. Seven ballerinas, including Christy Parcha, appear in white gowns with tulle skirts, carrying on their shoulders a large, rustic wooden cross that they lift up and rest on a stand. Lisa Wilson cries as she presents each of their three ceremonial dances, one of which is called “I’ll Always Be Your Baby.” Afterward, Randy Wilson and a fellow pastor, Steve Holt, stand at the cross with heavy rapiers raised and announce that they are prepared to “bear swords and war for the hearts of our daughters.” The blades create an inverted “V” under which girls and fathers kneel and lay white roses that symbolize purity. Soon there is a heap of cream-colored buds wilting beneath the outstretched arms of the cross.

http://www.glamour.com/news/articles/2007/01/purityballs07feb?currentPage=1

[porphyrian]

1. I'm leaning towards "scary," but with a good dose of "creepy." - n/t

[XemaSab]

I'm going more towards "perverted" with a good dose of "Freud"

thrown in. :scared:

[porphyrian]

6. Heh. - n/t

[Bluebear]

8. "Paging Dr, Freud, please pick up the white courtesy phone."

You got that right!

[MADem]

15. The "Purity Balls" title pretty much seals it, eh? NT

[133724]

57. rotflmao. you owe me a keyboard.....

[SharonAnn]

18. He "owns" her sexuality until her husband "owns" it? Have I got that right?

[Bluebear]

22. I believe that sums it up. She must always be "owned" by some male, nt

[Lerkfish]

250. disgusting, aint it?

our society as a whole is totally whack about sexuality and gender empowerment or lack thereof

[LostinVA]

45. Yes -- *shudder*

[NotGivingUp]

177. yep...i think you got it right...this is just so sick n/t

[mzmolly]

192. Is is any wonder that the higest rate of incest occurs in fundi-esque families?

See my post # 208 below.

:scared:

[raccoon]

233. A friend of mine who's a counselor said that there's a lot of sexual

abuse in fundie families.

Surprise, surprise. :sarcasm:

[mzmolly]

245. Shocking!

:sarcasm: ;) It's very sad, however.

[LostinVA]

39. And more than a dash of "pathological" and "criminal"

[malaise]

41. I'm going in your direction

Let's hope we're wrong but this appears sick.

[Swamp Rat]

125. LOLOLOL!

:rofl:

[tbyg52]

167. Ugh

Two spoiled brats and their spoiled brat father. Would be *only* disgusting if not for the fact that he's the "decider." *That* makes it scary.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I think it's really, really creepy.

Fathers hung up on their 7-year-old daughters' virginity. :scared: :puke:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muntrv]

4. Another creepy excuse to have a party, if you ask me.

[mzteris]

5. ewwwww..........

I need to take another shower now, I think.

This is just creepy, imo......... :puke:

[moc]

7. So why aren't they having purity balls with their sons?

:shrug:

[undeterred]

12. Maybe the moms get to do that.

[jeff30997]

16. Because their balls are so pure?

:rofl:

[kath]

17. GOOD question. Maybe a mother-son purity ball??

All fundamentalism has at its heart a fear and hatred of female sexuality. Heaven forbid any woman anywhere should enjoy sex, or have it for any other reason than procreation.

[Bluebear]

19. Precisely. nt

[moc]

23. Yes, my point exactly.

The hypocrisy is palpable. It's all about controlling women. If it weren't, they'd do the same things with their sons.

[Morgana LaFey]

89. Correction

PATRIARCHY has at its heart a fear and hatred of female sexuality and a whole lot more about females.

[kath]

110. True that. But it is true that fundamentalist religion sects (be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish)

are the most patriarchal, no?

[LostinVA]

156. Yup

[Morgana LaFey]

195. Oh, absolutely.

I didn't think you were WRONG, just not all-inclusive enough. These patriarchal religions didn't grow up in a vacuum, as you know. I just wanted to point that out.

:hi:

[kath]

222. I didn't take offense AT ALL. In fact, I appreciated it that you made me

think a little more broadly.
:hi:

[cool user name]

105. I fully endorse women to enjoy having sex ...

... not that they need my endorsement but I give it anyway!

:D :)

[NotGivingUp]

175. yeah...me too...a 25 year old dancing with daddy and promising not to have sex????

sex is perfectly natural...this fiasco is not.

[arewenotdemo]

151. Bingo

[jmowreader]

42. You know EXACTLY why.

"Saving myself for the man that I marry" still has romantic connotations among girls. Just like weddings, and dreaming about the house they're going to move into with Prince Charming, kids and all that.

Boys? Yeah, right. The minute little boys find out what sex is, they start making plans to have as much of it as they can just as soon as they possibly can.

Shit, half the guys at any high school prom in America only went because they figured they'd get laid at the end of the night.

The day after they start printing Groom magazine, and men go to the altar dressed in $10,000 tuxedos to stand next to women wearing rented dresses, we can start talking about mother-son chastity balls.

[Clark2008]

60. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

We have a winner.

(From a woman who bought her wedding skirt and suit set on Ebay. :hi: )

[kath]

221. Sadly, all the Princess, Prince Charming, your-wedding-is-the most-important

-and-fantabulous-day-of-your-life crap is being peddled to young girls even MORE than it used to be it seems (so much for progress). and people's child-rearing practices, the intense gender-stereotyping of nearly every toy they buy, etc - more sexist than ever. Witness the millions and millions of dollars of "Disney Princess" stuff, etc.

There are some good resources out there for parents wanting to counteract this shit with their kids. Reading good stories and books with strong female characters and kind, sensitive male characters helps. See: Great Books for Girls and Great Books for Boys by Kathleen O'Dean and Once Upon a Heroine (can't remember authors).

There are some books on non-sexist child rearing, but many of them are sadly out of print these days (all those quaint 1970's and 80's notions, don'cha know)

[Nicole]

135. The moms are with the sons

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3164702&mesg_id=3167395

[kath]

140. See my post below - program set up quite differently, and not nearly so creepy in

the way it was executed - included sons, daughters, moms, dads, other family members and friends, only teenagers, only the kids signed a pledge, not parents.

This program will probably have a similarly low success rate, with the kids engaging in plenty of unsafe anal and oral sex in order to "preserve their chastity".

[NotGivingUp]

180. you're right....not as sick. the other is like the daughter is the dad's property

[Scout]

251. excellent question. n/t

[undeterred]

9. ICK.

[Rosemary2205]

10. mental abuse.

just more indoctrination that females are evil for even having "those feelings".

[XemaSab]

11. Balling for purity is like...

Oh, never mind. :hide:

[Bluebear]

13. ...

:spray:

[Bonhomme Richard]

14. The picture of the guys hand brought disgusting images...........

to my mind

[originalpckelly]

20. These people are a bunch of fucking weirdos.

Just another way to control women, and by the way I'm not a "femi-nazi" either, I'm a guy. I think this crap is a disgusting excuse to tell women how to live their lives.

[durrrty libby]

21. OMFG...that is a blatant pervision disguised in plain sight

[LostInAnomie]

24. You know what they call men obsessed with a girl's virginity?

Perverts.

“Are you ready to war for your daughters’ purity?”

Why is everything a war with these people? It would be nice to just once hear these people say "Well, I would prefer it if my daughter would remain a virgin until she marries, but with human nature being what it is and everyone having free will, it is a decision she will have to make for herself. God and I will love her regardless."

Noooo... you have to have a "war" and you have to scare the poor girls with talk of fire and damnation. What a sad life they must lead if that is the only basis of value for their daughters.

[Bluebear]

26. 'Why is everything a war with these people?'

A very pertinent question, LIA.

And the girls are no doubt lured by the crinolines and the fancy hairdos, not realizing how utterly creepy this is to the real world, to have your father "warring" for your hymen.

[Matariki]

30. and the rings, and the attention. blech.

[knitter4democracy]

25. My cousin did this with his daughter.

He is so scared of her growing up that it is almost funny. He's terrified of his baby girl getting old enough to date and maybe *gasp* have sex outside of marriage. He really needs to deal with that. I tried to talk with him about it, but he just went on and on about how great it was to spend a weekend with his daughter and how much better he feels about her "being safe."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

81. he decides what she does between her own legs.

that is sick.

Studies have shown that these pledges don't last a year, AND that out of wedlock pregnancies are actually HIGHER than in families that do not act out these stupid religious-minded, faith-based initiatives.

You do know that federal tax dollars support this shit.

[knitter4democracy]

111. I definitely don't agree with him or think it's a smart move.

I went to an evangelical college. Trust me, even with promise rings and pledges, there was plenty of sex on campus (just hidden and very underground, since it could get you fined, put on probation, or even kicked out of college). The lack of knowledge frankly scared me--I became known as a girl to ask about most anything, just because my mom had made sure I was fully informed and comfortable with my own body.

I didn't know tax dollars went to this program. That's sick.

[kath]

116. Lots and lots of tax dollars go to funding "abstinence only" sex non-education,

which DOES NOT WORK. U.S. kids need COMPREHENSIVE sex ed, and easy access to contraception, which is what kids in Europe get - and their rates of teen pregnancy and STDs are way, way, way lower than ours.

[knitter4democracy]

121. But you read about that in books filled with facts.

Can't have that now, can we? We need factiness instead. ;)

It's amazing how much Colbert gets right.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

198. no kidding.

factiness is thisclose to fartiness.

[knitter4democracy]

208. You actually made me laugh out loud.

:lol:

I needed that tonight. Thanks!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

209. so you won't block me, eh?

:)

[knitter4democracy]

244. Nah, I can't block funny people.

:D

I'm torn over that whole blocking thing anyway.

[ChickMagic]

234. Hmph.

He just shouldn't have potty trained her. That would have
solved his problem. :sarcasm:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Bumper sticker I saw: "Chastity is it's own punishment."

I rid myself of virginity at the first opportunity I had, and haven't missed it since.

[DarkTirade]

55. Did you check under the couch cushions?

That's where I always find things I lose. :)

[Matariki]

28. I'm so happy my own father was a reasonable man in this regard.

he understood that sex is normal and healthy and was just happy I was responsible enough to use birth control when I became sexually active at 16. My mom too. Yay for sensible parents.

[knitter4democracy]

114. My dad, too. Heck, he was worried that I didn't date in high school

He thought I was a lesbian, actually (he's from an older generation and is quite homophobic, too). When I brought home Hubby to meet him, he practically told us to go at it in his house he was so happy.

[Porcupine]

149. As a father of 2 girls I hereby pledge.....

To never ever initiate a chastity discussion with my daughters.

I will turn them over to their aunties (my sisters are powerful women) for confirmation that they have a clear technical knowledge of pregnancy and it's prevention. Appropriate texts will be provided.

I will at all times confirm that their bodies are their responsibilities and they have the right to say yes or no to (legal) partners of their choice.

I will restrain the urge to say "I told you so." I will really.

I will be there to pick up the pieces.

I will drive them or any friend of theirs home no questions asked for 24 hours.

I will encourage, but never demand, healthy life choices.

I will reaffirm this pledge when I screw up and stick my nose in business it doesn't belong.

Porcupine

DU Thread-"Would You Pledge Your Virginity to Your Father
p.s.-that is about the sickest shit I have heard of the fundies doing in public. :wtf:

[Matariki]

214. What a great post.

Your daughters are fortunate to have such a thoughtful and respectful parent. I'm pretty sure that goes a much longer way toward raising healthy and happy adults than the shit this thread is about.

[Phillycat]

252. Awesome.

Add "drive them to the clinic if they need me to" and you're pretty much the perfect father. Well done!

[Phillycat]

253. Awesome.

Add "drive them to the clinic if they need me to" and you're pretty much the perfect father. Well done!

[Arugula Latte]

29. Control freak fathers ... This is disgusting.

They gotta protect their property ... :puke:

[flashlighter]

31. Wow. that is medeval...

these people are twisted! How do these girls mother's feel about this?

[Bluebear]

32. I imagine the girl's mother's feelings don't come into play in these families. nt

[kath]

40. Egg-zackly - the dads are PromiseKeeper types, and therefore "have dominion" over

their wives, or whatever the hell they call it.

[knitter4democracy]

115. Nah, the moms just quietly handle it all.

They let their husbands think they're in charge and then make sure things are actually okay. Well, the majority anyway. There are some wives so given over to that whole archetype of the submissive wife that they let their husbands damage their kids like this. Chances are, the moms are making sure these girls have condoms in their purses or are on the pill "for hormonal reasons."

[LeftyMom]

33. Any man who spends that much time thinking about his daughter's crotch belongs in therapy.

Or prison.

Anybody who places this big of a public emphasis on their sexual morality has privately lost control.

Exhibit A: Everything that's come out about the level of and non-response to child molestation in the squeaky-clean Mormon church, including child molestation and incest in very high ranking and notable LDS families.

Exhibit B: The Catholic Church and the cover-up of child molestation by supposedly celibate clergy.

Exhibit C: The FLDS perverts.

While I'm making predictions, when the House of Saud falls, we'll hear some freak shit about their sexual goings-on.

[WindRavenX]

36. agreed 100%

The choice to commit to chastity is something ONLY the girl/woman can make. To think that some fathers actual coerce their daughters...ick :puke:

And YES, the LDS church is INSANE when it comes to this. My SO thought masturbation was dirty up until he was 16 and decided the church was horseshit :crazy:

[LeftyMom]

43. My understanding is that questions about sex and masturbation are normal parts of the interview

for a temple recommend. It's a good thing I'm nor Mormon- any adult (excluding a doctor with a good reason for asking) who asked my kid a question like that would find their perverted ass up on charges.

[WindRavenX]

47. it is. One of Kyle's friends was getting married in a Temple...

...but when the Bishop asked the couple if they had engaged in pre-marital sex (they're in their early 20's), they said no, but that they had been "tempted" a few times and had done some things, probably touching or something, and the Bishop recommended that they wait a little longer to "fight" that temptation :eyes:

Kyle says one of the reason people marry so soon after meeting in Utah is that they just want to have guilt-free sex.

To me, that's just sad.

[LeftyMom]

49. I went to school with a ton of mormon kids, and their inability to assert themselves did and does

bother me.

In a sane world, the response to a question about whether one has had sex with one's future spouse is a hearty fuck you, with a reminder to mind your own business. Of course, in a sane world, twenty-somethings who had managed not to have sex (no matter that they'd fooled around a bit) would be both recognized for some amazing self-control and pitied a bit for missing out on such a wonderful part of a relationship and the human experience.

Guilt for normal behavior and intrusive questioning are brainwashing tactics.

[WindRavenX]

51. I hear ya

I was raised to ALWAYS stand tall and assert yourself--be vocal if someone says something that rubs you the wrong way, confront someone if there's an issue, yada yada.


And it does make me sad that so many of Kyle's friends see both of us as being "dirty" because we're in a sexually monogomous relationship-- as if making love taints us x(

[Morgana LaFey]

93. I know of a mature Mormon woman who keeps getting married

and then promptly divorced (tho she never expects it) precisely so she can have sex without guilt. She was about to marry someone who gave me such chills I couldn't stand even being around his smarmy self, and her words were, "I've got to either stop seeing him or get married." A bit later in her monologue she tries to convince herself, "But I'm not getting married for sex."

So she got married, and was divorcing him (#3 -- or was it #4??) within 3 months. The one before that lasted a little longer, more like a year or so. I'd LOVE to be able to talk some sense into her, but I don't think I can. It's very sad.

[Zhade]

123. The LDS church is insane, period.

I'm ex-Mormon, so I know of what I speak. Did you know they use "porn" and shock therapy to 'cure' homosexuals like me?

(Of course, i think all religions are insane, but the LDS - started by a man known as a fraud in his own time - is one of the quirkier ones.)

[WindRavenX]

128. oh yes

We should talk sometime about the culture of mormonism--it's truly frightening. My SO, also an ex-mormon, has lots of unpleasent memories.

[LostinVA]

157. I can't believe you're moving there

[blonndee]

132. He found the stones and golden plates

dum dum dum dum DUM.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Zhade]

133. I don't watch SP anymore, but damned if they didn't knock that one out of the park!

NT!

[WinkyDink]

73. Not to mention the House of Bush.

[TorchTheWitch]

96. Really!

Any man who spends that much time thinking about his daughter's crotch belongs in therapy.

Totally agree. This isn't just an ownership issue it's perverted.

Eeeek! :scared:

[WindRavenX]

34. fetishization (sp?) of the hymen

NT

[Bluebear]

37. All your hymens are belong to us.

Extremely weird.

[WindRavenX]

38. seriously

I have nothing against someone who decides, look, I'm waiting until marriage-- that's their choice.

This "ceremony", like many performed in homogeneous religious groups (like the Mormons) is all about power, control, and not respecting a woman's choice in sexuality. In essence, virginity becomes a commodity...gross.

[Morgana LaFey]

95. Virginity has always been a commodity -- tho lost some of its

"value" with The Pill and Sexual Revolution of the 1960s, thankfully.

[arewenotdemo]

152. bwahaha

[LostinVA]

35. ICK -- this is sooo disturbing and gross

My mom would have killed my Dad about this (I've asked her).

[Aristus]

44. F*****g armchair warriors, man.

Everything's war with these lunatics. :eyes:

[The Stranger]

46. Fundamentalist Christianity is the same as Fundamentalist Islam, but CNN only shows burkas.

Is the true enemy a "terrorist cell" on Fox's popular 24 television show, or is it the Fundamentalist mindest spreading through the U.S. heartland, which espouses the same Fundamentalist tenets, except with different names and rituals?

And both talk of the "War" against the "unbelievers." It calls to mind an entirely different dimension to the various "wars" going on today: a war for the very conscience of humanity, fought between those who seek to enslave with Fundamentalist religion, and those who week to liberate with "secular" critical thought.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

100. And you know those fundamentalist Christians are jealous of the Muslim men...

when it comes to the burkas. They just wish they could cover their women and have THAT much control over them.
Duckie

[Veronica.Franco]

48. very, very, very weird ...

Ah, what's with this Dad ... his daughter is never your date ... and what's with the feather bowa? ... Europe must absolutely die laughing at the ignorance and stupidity of this country ... dress your daughter up like a princess, put her on a pedestal, and then "the boys will be boys"? ...

What are they doing? ....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


To my Dear Old Dad ...


Dear Dad,

Thanks for teaching me to play poker, shoot a gun, fish, climb trees, and play the guitar ... and thanks for giving me the freedom to do as I damned well pleased with my life ... you raised FOUR daughters and told us all to speak our minds and have an opinion "for crissakes" ... sheep are for herding ... ;-)

VF

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[fujiyama]

50. This is interesting:

Regarding one of the "couples" at this bizarre event,

"God has been throwing some curveballs lately, though; a week before the ball, Mike and Christy Parcha’s pastor, Ted Haggard, a man who has openly railed against gay marriage, made headlines nationwide when he admitted to receiving a massage from a man (one who claimed Haggard had paid him for sex), showing how at odds what is preached and what is practiced can be."

Very weird people. What happens when these women break their pledges? Will they be treated as pariahs by their fathers?

Now, there's nothing wrong with telling your kids not to sleep around. That's common sense. But, these balls are just creepy...

[WinkyDink]

74. "Mike and Christy", like a married couple, instead of "Mike Parcha and his daughter Christy".

You know~~~NORMAL appellation.

[Bluebear]

88. GREAT catch. nt

[Bronyraurus]

52. YUCK!

[hlthe2b]

53. "pledge virginity" and "Father" use in same sentence

gives me the creeps....

I don't know, but for these men to be so concerned about their daughter's virginity is just so grotesque, if you ask me...Mind your own zippers men (given the stats on adultery, don't tell me at least some of them aren't involved outside the "sacred marital bed.") :eyes:

[kath]

54. Return of the chastity belt: "When Lauren Wilson hit adolescence, her father gave her a purity

purity ring and a charm necklace with a tiny lock and key. Randy Wilson took the key, which he will hand over to her husband on their wedding day. The image of a locked area behind which a girl stores all of her messy desires until one day a man comes along with the key haunts me. By the end of the ball, as I watch fathers carrying out sleepy little girls with drooping tiaras and enveloping older girls with wraps, I want to take every one of those girls aside and whisper to them the real secret of womanhood: The key to any treasure you’ve got is held by one person—you."

[crispini]

98. YUCK

A KEY? He kept the key and he's going to HAND IT OVER TO HER HUSBAND?! :wtf: How blatant does that get. Geez.

[kath]

103. There's more about this "chastity jewelry", that I found by following links

in the Digby post that was linked to in the OP of the April '06 DU thread about chastity balls.

You folks are going to love this. More from World O Crap on the Daddy's Lil' Virgin movement. Apparently there is some special chastity jewelry available for man and girl to exhange in the covenant ceremony:


The Heart to Heart™ program, created by jeweler Joe Costello, differs from other abstinence programs in some important, unique ways. <...>


First, the "key to her heart." This beautiful heart has a smaller heart in the front. Behind that heart is a keyhole. When making the covenant with your daughter, you explain that the covenant is between her, you and God. Since God has placed her in your care as a parent, you and only you can hold the "key to her heart."


God not trusting her enough to let her be responsible for her own heart.


You then explain to the child that you will hold the key to her precious heart until the day of her wedding. On that day, you will give her away like at all weddings, BUT in doing so you will also “give away” the key to her heart to her now husband. The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it.


Nothing at all Freudian going on here!


Inside will be a small note that had been placed in the heart on the day you made the covenant. That note can say something like, "I do not know your name or what you even look like, but this is my promise to save myself for you this day. Love, Melanie."


Or, the note could say something like, "I've been saving myself for you for many horny years, so the sex tonight had really better be worth it!. Oh, and make sure my Dad gives you the key to my chastity belt too. Love, Melanie."


Read it all.Doctor assassination advocate Randall Terry, of all people, is peripherally involved in this scam, proving once again the the forced birth movement has less to do with fetuses than with vaginas.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_digbysblog_archive.html#114537999061146139

World O'Crap http://blogs.salon.com/0002874/2005/12/11.html

[crispini]

107. Bwah!

Or, the note could say something like, "I've been saving myself for you for many horny years, so the sex tonight had really better be worth it!. Oh, and make sure my Dad gives you the key to my chastity belt too. Love, Melanie."

:spray:

[LostinVA]

170. The tres creepy Joe Simpson did this with Jessica

He was a Youth Minister. *shudder*

[knitter4democracy]

118. *shudder* Horrible, horrible image.

Now my cousin scares me even more. If I were his daughter, I'd find that key and melt it down or something drastic.

[NotGivingUp]

183. now does the father make sure that the husband to be has not ever had sex?

[spooky3]

darn, I thought this thread was going to be about Jessica Simpson

just kidding...

I agree with everyone who thinks this is creepy AND sexist.

[133724]

56. I thought that I just read a poll that

said 93% of highschooolers were NOT virgins......

can't remember where I read it but you might try rawstory or huffingtonpost...

[HughBeaumont]

58. Oh no, not THIS again . ..

There was another thread on DU about a year ago dealing with the purity balls.

Creeptacular then and creeptastic NOW. Girls as young as SEVEN, pledging virginity to their dads?

As a parent I find this appalling and astoundingly inappropriate, even for fundies. That's like getting WAAAAAY too into the daughter's business, if you ask me.

[kath]

67. not just as young as seven - as young as FOUR:

"Still, every one of the girls here, even the four-year-old, will sign that purity covenant.'

[HughBeaumont]

70. Four years old at a Hymen Preservation Ball. Nice.

Can we go beyond "astoundingly inappropriate" and just call it "ABUSE" at that point?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

200. and not one catholic priest in the building.

so, they have that going for them.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

201. and not one catholic priest in the building.

so, they have that going for them.

[Ian David]

59. It's a party for fathers to celebrate their daughters' vaginas.

What's wrong with that?

Why do people think it's "weird" or "creepy" for a father to take a deep, personal interest in his daughter's vagina, and to throw a sort "Hymen Mitzvah" party for it?

What's wrong with saying, "Let's have a vagina party. Just you, me, a bunch of other dads, and all their little virgin daughters, all JonBenet-Ramseyed-up in pretty dresses, dancing with a bunch of old men."

Welcome to The North American Man-Virgin Love Association (NAMVLA):

"I love you. And I am very concerned about your vagina."




My little virgin daughter is off limits... but I wouldn't mind nailin' that one at the next table. Yeah. That chick is hot. And her dad sher has a purty mouth.



I'll just hold it right here, and you put your head under the table. It's okay. You'd still be a virgin, and there's a good chance I'm not really your daddy.



I fuckin' swear, I will break all your fingers if I catch you touching yourself down there again, you little whore.



Don't you fucking stop dancing until you feel the wetness.
Note: This man DOES appear to have an erection.



Daddy says that someday I'll get 'The Curse' that makes my vagina bleed. That makes me scared, because it might wake-up the monster that lives under my bed. The one that used to touch me at night when Daddy was still drinking.




Thank you, Daddy. I love my vagina, too.

[LeftyMom]

62. Oh, if only we could nominate a single post.

:thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

85. "I love you. And I am very concerned about your vagina."

:spray:

[QMPMom]

127. That child in yellow is barely past being a TODDLER!

And her freak father is thinking abotu her virginity!?!?!

He should be thinking about when to take the damn training wheels off her bike.

[Raine]

150. Very preverted for a father

to be thinking of his daughter like this...so obsessed with her sexuality and a preteen at that! :puke:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

145. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[NotGivingUp]

184. great post!!! "let's have a vagina party" "hymen mitzvah"...too funny!!!

[kitkat65]

61. My dad would not have been creepy enough to ask/expect/accept it.

[HughBeaumont]

63. Yeah, here we go . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=958611

Look at some of the pics in THIS thread. You want disgusting . . .

[WinkyDink]

64. More than creepy; it is PERVERSE. Let's get real, here: these men are

SICKOS.
They should not even be THINKING of their daughters' sexual organs, let alone having them PLEDGED to them.

O.M.G.

[Clark2008]

65. What happens when the daughter loses her hymen to, um, I

don't know - horseback riding, climbing trees, gymnastics and/or falling on a boy's bicycle.

All of which have a do happen, including to me.

Is she no longer "pure" because she happened to pop up too hard on the saddle whilst riding a quarter horse 'round a barrel?

This is insane.

[Ian David]

83. She gets sent to a forced-breeding facility

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3159411

[kath]

220. Oh, man, Ian, thanks for linking to that. Think I'll have to wait until my

stomach's not so full before reading the whole thing, but thanks. I didn't think such places still existed.

[Ian David]

66. Some balls are held for charity, and some for fancy dress...

but when they're held for vaginas they're the balls that I like best.

[HughBeaumont]

69. NO!!!

:rofl:

Oh yeah . . . creepiest. Photos. EVER.


"Awww yeah. The little girl is MINE until I decide who's worthy of her honey pot . . . . ergh .. . . must . . . conceal . . . . . chub . . ."


Yeah, I'd think of something witty, but I'm just vomiting too heavily.

[Bigmack]

137. I thought I was Un-Creepable...

until I saw the pic and caption in your post.

I've seen the Pony Show in Panama and the Hard-boiled Egg trick in Olongapo, but that pic of the guy dancing with his daughter with the possible chubby caused me to give my chilli a repeat!

[Nay]

68. The fathers say "I choose before God to cover my daughter as

her authority..." ??? Jesus!! Do they know what they are saying? "Covering" IIRC is a term used in animal husbandry to mean "fucking" or "having intercourse with." It's used with horses and cattle. Where did that term even come from, in this sentence? That has to be deliberate. It is such a weird choice of words -- why not use "shield" or "defend" my daughter? This is so, so, so fucked up.

[LeftyMom]

75. It's weirdo evangelical speak for "protect via prayer" or "demand god look after for me"

but yes, there's kinda an element of responsibility or ownership implied in the term.

Like a lot of jesus freak speak, there's really no definition to be found, you kinda have to pick it up in context. Creating their own language is one way cults separate their community from outsiders and define themselves.

[sammythecat]

71. I'm a little late to this thread, so all I can say is

what's been said before. This is just plain creepy.

[Ian David]

72. These things ALWAYS end badly...

First the blood, and then the boys!

I should've killed myself when he put it in me. After the first time, before we were married, Ralph promised never again. He promised, and I believed him. But sin never dies. Sin never dies. At first, it was all right. We lived sinlessly. We slept in the same bed, but we never did it. And then, that night, I saw him looking down at me that way. We got down on our knees to pray for strength. I smelled the whiskey on his breath. Then he took me. He took me, with the stink of filthy roadhouse whiskey on his breath, and I liked it. I liked it! With all that dirty touching of his hands all over me. I should've given you to God when you were born, but I was weak and backsliding, and now the devil has come home. We'll pray.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074285/quotes

[cynatnite]

76. What kind of sick fuck would flaunt his daughter's virginity?

:puke:

[Ian David]

77. Do they have bumperstickers?

"My Daughter Was Virgin Of The Month At The Hazard County Purity Ball."

[Ian David]

78. It's called NAMVLA! The North American Man-Virgin Love Association! n/t

[Bluebear]

86. "I plan to remain sexually pure..."

I pledge to remain sexually pure...until the day I give myself as a wedding gift to my husband. ... I know that God requires this of me.. that he loves me. and that he will reward me for my faithfulness.

THAT is what she is reading to Daddy!

[Ian David]

90. To which she asks,

Daddy, does anal sex count? Uncle Jeb says it doesn't, and that I do it the best.

[Bluebear]

92. Yish . . .

[Ian David]

101. More photos from the NAMVLA Ball! Thanks!

And as we stand here inside the giant vulva made of white balloons, I pledge to abstain from letting anyone near my vagina, except when Daddy conducts his weekly "Virgin Inspections" while Mommy is sleeping.



Ah don't know why we're here. I reckon my little Petunia's virginity will out-live everyone in the room, 'less I take care of her myself someday out of pity. Shee-it.

[133724]

199. Well this explains a lot.....

[Kolesar]

210. I would like IanDB1 to explain why he blocked my posts

Nothing occurs to me.

[me b zola]

79. If I would have "pledged my virginity" to my father, he would have backhanded me

:rofl:

Then he would have followed the backhand (while I was still seeing stars) with a "what the hell is wrong with you"

:rofl:

[Hippo_Tron]

80. Five bucks says Pastor Wilson or someone else with a similar job sleeps with underage girls

The laws of Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, and Mark Foley make it so.

[Gelliebeans]

82. Ok now that makes

the little hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Ick.....

[deadparrot]

84. Even more reason to appreciate my wonderful father.

That shit is creepy as hell. Every time I read about something like this, I get sick to my stomach.

:puke:

[ismnotwasm]

87. Gross

And the pictures are worse. Is that a little CLEAVAGE I'm seeing? Strapless growns? Black lace overlay? Dangling earrings and a boa on what looks like a 12 year old?

What the fuck? If they're going to pretend "chasity" they could at least have them dress in less provocative clothing. Hypocrites.

Sick, sick beyond sick. I don't even want to think to far on the home life of some of these girls. Ugh.

[Ian David]

91. You know, if they'd encourage these girls to become lesbians, they could stay virgins FOREVER! n/t

[kath]

97. BWAH!!

Good thing I wasn't drinking my tea at the time, or I would have damaged my keyboard!

[WindRavenX]

99. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

[Raine]

94. GROSS

that's my word that describes this. :puke:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

102. Perhaps if these girls and women wore veils, and had their bodies completely covered,

their modesty and chastity would be even better protected! :think:

La plus ca change...

[kath]

106. Well, check out this site's modest swimwear for "Christians" - not burkas, but...

http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-3.html

This sentence on the page for "the skirted swimmer" has me mystified: "The skirt snaps between the legs for in the water and unsnaps for playing on the beach or going to town without changing."
http://www.wholesomewear.com/skirted-b.html

[Warren DeMontague]

218. That's just nuts.

It looks like one of those things the dentist drapes over you during x-rays. Hell, it's probably made out of lead, too.

[lukasahero]

249. And their right to do so defended here.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[nam78_two]

104. Ok ewww....

seriously...:puke:
Parents and sex don't mix. At this instant, I am so grateful for my father who has rarely shown any interest whatsoever in my life ;). Seriously, a detached dad is so much better than one like this.

[kath]

108. Did anyone else notice that the first daughter mentioned in the article was TWENTY-FIVE?!

So the age range of the daughters at this little shindig was at least 4 - 25. EEK!

It's worth reading the whole article. I wonder how the reporter from Glamour worked her way into this ball? And I'd love to see the fundie reaction to the article...
Thanks for posting it, Bluebear.

[LostinVA]

226. Yes, I did -- ewwwww

That's even creepier, because the Dad is having a DATE with a WOMAN, so there's no way to even spin that as a sweet father-young daughter thing.

Yucko.

[we can do it]

109. WTF

[JerseygirlCT]

112. EWWWWWWW!!!!!

That's disgusting, and the horrific patriarchal message it sends curdles my blood.

Like he OWNS her virginity? Like that's his concern?

And what kind of father would do that?

ICK, ICK, ICK, ICK, ICK!

[Cleita]

113. That's downright creepy.

There is no way I would ever had shared any knowledge of my sexuality with my father.

Ewwww!

[RoyGBiv]

117. Aww, hell no ...

And if my daughter ever expressed an interest in doing this, I'd immediately arrange an appointment with a therapist and start assessing any behaviors I may have exhibited during her life that would have led to such a screwed up association of my "ownership" of her sexuality.

Geezus, lord god have mercy. This is positively vile.

Father-daughter bonding, and celebrating it, is an entirely different matter. This could, and should, be done, even publicly like this, but lets leave the misogynistic, semi-pedophilic aspects out of it, thanks.

The greatest tribute my daughter could give me would be to become the assertive, intelligent woman I have hoped she would be, not to "always be my baby."

[Raydawg1234]

119. First step, purity ball............next step..........Datline NBC

I'm gonna say it, maybe these guys have some wierd sexual fantasy about virgins.

[Kerrytravelers]

120. You know, my parents were honest with me about my body and the consequences that come with decisions

I understood that sex leads to pregnancy. I understood that I would have the weighty decision of making a choice after weighing my options. Nothing was ever kept a secret. I never made any pledges. We just had honesty in our house and you know what... I was able to make the best choice for me and feel secure in my choices because I had all the correct biological and emotional factors in which to weigh my decisions.

And just for the sake of argument, in full disclosure, I was well into my 20s before engaging in intimacy. I completed my college education. I made the choice that was best for me.

Telling children the facts about their bodies will not lead to an epidemic of 12 year old pregnant mothers. Pledging all this nonsense will not lead to all teens being "pure," either.

This pledging nonsense is getting more and more insane.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

124. I'd like to see the dad wave the contract in the face of his daughter, who signed at age 4.

"But you SIGNED this shit!"

Oh the humanity.

[LostinVA]

227. The opposite has been shown in studies, KT

When parents get rather "graphic" about sex, and even tell kids about their own experiences, those children engage in sexual intercourse later than kids who are told nothing. Maybe it icks them out some, thinking about their parents doing it! Hehehehehhe.

I also tease my mom, who's a nurse and gave me a very in depth talk, that "the talk" made me gay.

[Kerrytravelers]

243. Bwwwwaaaaahhhhh !!!!!!!!

:rofl:

Maybe that's the fundie idea. Don't tell 'em too much, it'll give them the gay!

:rofl:

[treestar]

122. It would work just as well to have the sons pledge to wait

until they marry before they even try for it.

Why is that take never taken. Oh, I guess, because it's not "natural." :sarcasm:

Funny how "nature" always seems to favor the men having all the fun and the women all the heartbreak.

[Nicole]

136. The sons are pledging too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3164702&mesg_id=3167395

[Bluebear]

146. It's not at all the same thing with the sons. nt

[LostinVA]

171. Exactly

[QMPMom]

126. Yeah, I reallywanted to talk about that subject with my Dad in

1971. He'd have metaphorically died of embarrassment and then told me that my body was mine to choose what I wanted to do with it. Just like he told me that abortion was okay. (I didn't need or have one, but he just told me that one day.)

[LostinVA]

159. My Dad can't even watch a PG-13 sex scene with me and my sister

I'm 42, she's 37.

[Scarlett17]

129. Disturbing beyond words

Lord knows my dad was not perfect, but these freaks make him look like Mike Brady.

[mikelewis]

130. Yeah, that'll work...

First, if a ritual could ensure fidelity to chastity then how does one explain pedophile priests, our reliance on the sanctity of divorce and it certainly does not explain Ted Haggert? You can baptize anyone in water but if they don't come up on fire... they're just wet.

Secondly, I'm not giving that heathen daughter of mine a gold ring so she can hock it for a sack of weed or snap it with a pair of pliers and stick it in her nose... Though this story does remind me that it's been a while since I've been to the coffee shop with her...

I don't care what these fools do with their daughters... if they want to pretend their child isn't a person that's their business. Some prefer to shackle life and others prefer to guide it with love...

[blonndee]

131. That is sick, and there's something wrong with those "fathers."

Imagining the thinking of a "dad" who would actually attend such a creepy function is frightening. Even among the most conservative, Christian fundie type families, really, how many fathers would actually think that this kind of thing is good? In ANY way?

[Nicole]

134. Mothers and sons are doing it too

Different ball, same message.


Monique Endriss places a purity ring on her son Justin's finger during the Purity Ball ceremony.
Photos by Donnie Biggs


Mahlon Thomas tries his new purity ring on for the first time in front of Eric Hayth, Joseph Palgutt and Jonathan Duff at the Purity Ball.

http://www.belvoir.army.mil/news.asp?id=truelovewaits



Notice that this Purity Ball took place on an Army base. So are we paying for this?

[kath]

138. NO, this was a different program. Ceremony was for sons AND daughters, and included the kids'

fathers, mothers, or both parents (plus other family members or friends) and was only for kids in 7th-12th grades or ages 13-17. Part of the True Love Waits program. This ceremony was not set up in any way as a "date" between mothers and sons (or any other parent-child pairs/groups), nor did the parents sign any pledge that they were guardians-of-their-child's-purity type crap.

[Nicole]

142. I did say it was a different ball

but the message is the same. They are pledging their purity.

[kath]

144. yes, but the mothers don't take their sons out on a date to a fancy-dress ball

to have them do so, nor do the mothers sign any pledge, much less anything resembling the situation where
"When it’s time for dads and daughters to take the pledge (some informally exchange rings as well), the men stand over their seated daughters and read aloud from parchment imprinted with the covenant: “I, , choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity….” The men inscribe their names and their daughters sign as witnesses."

I think that the TrueLoveWaits program is at least a bit of an improvement over the chastity ball described in the Glamour article, since boys as well as girls are involved. BUT- The mothers are not claiming ownership of their sons' virginity - nor would they dare do so, I suspect, since fundie dads "have dominion" over their wives and family, they are "king of the castle", etc. The wives must "submit unto their husband", they promise to obey in their wedding vows, and all that other patriarchal bullshit. The fundie boys aren't given any kind of jewelry with a key that is to be held by their mother until their wedding day, at which time the mother presents it to the bride. We'd see such a scenario around the same time that we'd see pigs fly, or hell freeze over, etc, etc.

[Warren DeMontague]

148. Probably. Go on, kid, fire high powered, expensive weaponry at other human beings...

just don't fuck!

[WinkyDink]

161. Like the wrist there.

[Canuckistanian]

163. Boy, are these guys gonna get hounded in the locker room.

Here's the other half of the Freudian theme.

[knitter4democracy]

168. I had a friend in college who did this.

He's now in training to be a priest, but I remember seeing his purity ring in college.

[smokey nj]

178. I guess you could call these "Blue Balls."

[AtomicKitten]

139. ugh -- that question creeps me out on so many levels

[NMMNG]

141. Very creepy

And why aren't young men being asked to sign these chastity contracts?

Because the Bible only has stipulations for the woman's chastity before marriage. :eyes:

[zingaro]

143. How very Handmaid's Tale-ish, in a weird way.

[Warren DeMontague]

147. Yep, that's Capital-F Fucked up.

The more you bottle it up and repress it, the bigger mess you'll have when the dam inevitably bursts. Like the kids who get hectored with the abstinence only bullshit; they don't abstain, but they don't know how to use birth control, either.

I saw it Freshman year in college- the kids from the uptight families were the ones most like horny chimps with the gate to the primate house left open.

it'll be all that much harder to keep em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus.

[Hekate]

153. Taliban. Handmaid's Tale. "Heavy rapiers"? for what? castrating her boyfriend?

Christ on a trailer hitch. These people are sick.

May the God and the Goddess bless each young person's sexuality as it unfolds.

Hekate

[donheld]

154. Our country has gone insane

Yes it's creepy/sick/perverted/enraging etc. Nine times out of ten i'll bet the girl is out screwing around inspite of these rituals.

[liberalla]

155. Yech! Gross and scary!

Colorado Springs?

Oh well, now I understand! That makes perfect sense.

[terrya]

158. That's creepy as hell.

I don't even want to go into the symbolism of it all. Ewwwwwwwwww.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

160. Need to go douse myself in Lysol after this Bit O' Horror

Gak, blech, and ick I tell you.

:scared:

Imagine the scars this is going to leave on these poor kids. :grr:

[Canuckistanian]

162. If the father dies, what are the rights of succession?

Does his brother take over "warring for her purity"? Or can the pastor act as a temporary "reinforcement" until a suitable male is found?

One of the rules of war is NEVER leave your flank unguarded.

[Bluebear]

255. Brothers watching out a la the "honor killings" in some 'other' cultures.

Yeah, this fundamentalist Christian thing is SO much more enlightened. :sarcasm:

[Solly Mack]

164. Ick factor to the nth

Yikes.

Sicko paternalistic fuck-wads...

[northernsoul]

165. Paging Dr. Freud!

Dr. Freud, please pick up the white courtesy phone... NOW!

This calls for some kind of intervention. "Creepy" doesn't adequately describe this.

[progressoid]

166. I pledge to never set foot in Colorado Springs.

[kath]

174. Unfortunately these little shindigs don't just occur in Colorado Springs:

That first ball got some positive local and Christian press, as well as inquiries from people in 21 states interested in throwing their own. Today, South Dakota’s Abstinence Clearinghouse—a major association of the purity movement—sends out about 700 “Purity Ball Planner” booklets a year (tips include printing out the vows on “beautiful paper” and serving wedding cake for dessert). While the Wilsons make no money from their ball, a cottage industry for accessories has sprung up. Roam the Internet and you’ll find a $250 14-karat pearl-and-diamond purity ring; for $15, you can buy a red baby-doll T-shirt with ‘I’m Waiting’ emblazoned on the chest, its snug fit sending a bit of a mixed message.

[NotGivingUp]

169. this is very, very sick

[NotGivingUp]

172. i want to see this in reverse....moms and sons and rings and promises of chastity

this really makes me feel ill!!

[Sparkly]

173. Bizarre on so many levels.

SO many levels.

Also, the word "purity" -- what's the word for people who've had sex, then?

[kath]

179. Dirty, filthy, defiled, damned...

sex is eeeeeeeevul!

Check out this quote from the article: “Kids who abstain are not out there breaking hearts; they’re not dogs in heat. They go on to have great, intimate sex,” says Leslee Unruh, president of the Abstinence Clearinghouse.


Yeah, right, I'll bet these girls go on to have "great, intimate sex". REAL likely after years and years of being taught that sex and their bodies are filthy and disgusting, and that they'll burn in hell if they touch their genitals. I wonder what percentage end up enjoying sex, rather than just "submitting" to it. How many are able to achieve orgasm?
Poor things.

[Sparkly]

181. Exactly!

How do they dismiss the imprinted messages of Daddy valuing their "purity?"

[Bluebear]

190. And when they finally have sex, they will be thinking of their fathers...

...waving that damn "chastity contract" over their heads. Sick, sick ,sick and more sick.

[MadHound]

176. No, it isn't just you, this strikes me as very bizarre, very creepy behavior

It would be an interesting study to do, see if the incidence of paternal sexual abuse is greater among this population than among the general population as a whole. Somehow, I think that it would be significantly greater.

This is just beyond weird, pledging their genitals to their father. Freud would be doing great business among this crowd.

[intheflow]

182. These virginity balls are totally creepy.

My SO's 16-year-old daughter lives in Co. Springs and she actually wanted him to fly up there so they could go to this together. Her pricey Christian school is right by the Broadmoor, so I'm sure this is the event she was referring to, and I'm sure they talked it up at school. (Just as I'm sure they don't tell the youth anything about anal sex, which I guess is why these girls think it's ok to go anal and still remain pure. :crazy: ) Anyway, he declined to go, feeling totally creeped out by the concept. That her mother is a crazy fundie a la Focus on the Family is the whole reason he's divorced. It's so sad that his daughter seems to be following in her mother's footsteps. :(

[leeroysphitz]

185. Creepy IMHO, but to each his/ her own. NT

[Jennicut]

186. Um, girlies you don't need a purity ball to remain a virgin

I was a virgin until I was 23 years old. I waited for the right guy, married him , and we now have 2 daughters together (ages 1 and 2). I did it no for religious reasons or becuase anyone told me to. I did it because I saw all the girls in high school having sex with guys and it seemed to mean nothing to any of them. It turned me off from even dating and I really did not have a boyfriend until college when I met my husband. It was more about self respect and just not wanting to be part of the party-hearty crowd in high school. But this...whatever you call it..purity ball is twisted, sexist, and just down right weird. Why do girls have to be protected by their fathers? I don't see any boys having to "remain pure". Girls as young a 4? Tell me, does a 4 year old have any concept of this at all? As the mother of two little girls I find it sickening. The religious right is more interested in sex than the left is any day!

[murielm99]

242. I respect your decision.

You made your decision for mature reasons. It was not made for you.

My oldest daughter has a friend like you. She decided that she wanted to be a virgin when she married. She got married at 25. She is 27, and wants to wait to have children, too.

Her mother is a friend of mine. They are liberal people.

I hope no one here is making fun of your decision.

I told my girls that when they needed birth control, to come to me. They had all the information they needed before that. They did not come to me until they were out of high school. My husband and I paid for the doctors appointments and for contraception for quite a while. Information and support is part of parenting. Control is not.

[Jennicut]

246. I did get made fun of in high shcool and college but I didn't care

My parents actually encouraged me to go out with friends and go to parties and normal teenage but I was just so bored by it all. I was way more into politics and watching and discussing the news with my parents than most people my age. I guess I kind of missed out on a normal adolescence but I really didn't feel like I missed anything. I think I was the only kid in my freshman year at my college who called her Mom to let her know I was going out to a party. I had a good relationship with my parents and they always treated me in a very mature way. I consider them my friends and they always said that if I had sex to just be careful and safe and not to have it with someone who could care less about you in the morning. I didn't need to pledge my virginity to my Dad or anything and I din't need to feel "pure" so I would win my parents' respect.

[lies and propaganda]

187. disgusting, sick,odd, strange, weird, repuslsive, hypocritical, antiquated BULLSHIT

boys that same age get a congratulatory slap on the vback for bagging some ass! But dauhter would be a unsalvageable slut.

Im sure this doesnt stem from crazy religious beliefs at all.....

[NotGivingUp]

196. don't hold back now! LOL! I agree with you 100%!!!

it makes you wonder...why do they always push this bullshit? i would've thought that things would've gotten better in my lifetime, but they just keep getting worse.

[Stuckinthebush]

188. I bet none of these fathers were virgins

at marriage.

I also would bet that most of these men expected that their wives WERE virgins (and probably were told so but we all know it is not true).

SEX SEX SEX! Let's control SEX for women. Our boys, well they are just good ol red blooded american guys. They are going to probably sow those oats, but I'll be damned if they marry one of the whores they do it with!

All of this is wrapped up in misogyny, religious extremism, and a need to control. The long term effect is a bunch of women who are afraid of their own sexuality and angry with their parents.

God this makes me sick...I need to go take a shower or have sex or something.

[NotGivingUp]

197. i'm they tell their sons to 'bag' as many 'chicks' as they can.

i can barely stand the double standard anymore. it's a whacky world...enough to drive you crazy

[Coventina]

189. So instead, they give head & take it up the ass.

To preserve the holy hymen.

It's the Law of Unintended Consquences.

[LostinVA]

228. Yup, that's what the fundy girls did in college

And, they called themselves virgins. I got into huge arguments with them about this. They REALLY believed they were "pure."

[Coventina]

232. As a young teenager I went to a fundy church

(not my choice, my parents)

And at church camp & what not it was always a big topic about what you could do to "please the boys & be popular & get dates" yet still be a "virgin".

:eyes:

:puke:

Looking back on it now, I'll bet most of their parents would have preferred their little girls were having good ole fashioned missionary postition sex.

I'm all for kinky sex. However, I tend to think (maybe I'm being age-prejudiced here) that it's better to do AFTER high school. Doing anal & oral in high school with immature boys tends to get girls attention that they really don't need. JMHO.

[mzmolly]

191. "why aren't young men being asked to sign these chastity contracts?"

Why that's a marvelous question BB.

Makes me want to :puke:

[mzmolly]

193. Research Study: Couple and Familial Characteristics of Father-Child Incest Families

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=JFS2T88358MH9H824F6MPA28D35K8LH6&ID=67729

Abstract:

Couple and familial characteristics of father-child incest families are often described in the sexual abuse clinical and theoretical literature. However, few of these ideas have been tested empirically, and the limited research on the systemic functioning of incest families has resulted in contradictory findings. Results from a study describing couple and family system characteristics of 54 father-child incest families are reported. Both mothers and father perpetrators in the families were assessed. Findings from this study indicate that when compared to normative scores parents in incest families report greater than average social isolation, higher levels of family control and moral-religious emphasis, and lower emphasis on personal independence and individuation. Support was not found for an enmeshed level of family cohesion, as is often reported in the clinical literature. Nearly one-half of the couples reported clinically significant relationship distress and high levels of desired behavior change by their partner. Over one-half of the couples also reported substantial sexual discord in their relationships. The clinical and research implications of the findings are discussed.

http://www.clinicalsocialwork.com/systems.html

Unhealthy family systems have (almost) closed boundaries with fixed and rigid connections or no connections whatsoever. Almost everything is fixed and rigid: goals, roles and relationships, and rules and norms. Unhealthy family systems don't have equal power, the higher level subsystem (father) usually rules and the lower level subsystems (mother/children) are subservient. The father can rule his family and limit their behavior. He can effectively block healthy adaptations by limiting the behaviors/roles of family members and by isolating the family system from the community. "The family, like all systems, relate through a process called feedback. It is the feedback loops that maintain the system functioning...In closed systems families the feedback loops are negative and work to keep the system frozen and unchanging. This is called dynamics homeostasis... Feedback is also maintained in families by (overt and covert) rules that govern the system...positive feedback can break up the frozen status quo of a system. Positive feedback challenges destructive and unexamined rules, both overt and covert." (Bradshaw, 1988, p. 29-30)

Don't mean to get to far off track here, but the "Freudian" suggestions above are certainly not far off the mark.

[yasmina27]

194. OMG that is just sick!

My dh has a running joke with our girls that they can't marry until he's dead - any boy who comes to our door will be met with a shotgun and a shovel (I don't allow guns in our home) - he remembers what he was like as a boy and no boy will ever do "that" to his girls. :)

I want our girls to have a happy, healthy respect for their bodies. When they decide it's time to make love with a man, I want to make sure they have all the facts and protection available. That doesn't mean I want them to be sluts who give it to any horny guy who asks.

But this whole "purity" crap just freaks me out - it could really mess with a girl's head, especially one, like the 7 yo, who doesn't have a clue what it's all about.

[Initech]

202. Ewwwwwwwwwww.... I'm suddenly reminded of the Motherboy episode of Arrested Development.

Seriously creepy.

[depakid]

203. These men are creeps

No two ways about it.

I feel sorry for their daughters.

[stanwyck]

204. Wait just a freakin' minute, DUers

where were all of you, who I agree with completely, when we had this thread a few months ago? I got roasted, broiled, by numerous "DUers" because I found this Daddy-Daughter hymen ceremony to be horribly sick. And, man, was I attacked! Posters all over the place were describing this ceremony as "sweet" and beneficial.
C'mon. These fathers are obsessing over their daughter's genitalia and asking their daughters, their property, to publicly pledge that Daddy owns their sexuality.
There is nothing healthy about this. All of us are feeling the quite normal creature alert that this is wrong. The little hairs are standing up on the backs of our necks. These little girls are all dressed up in clothes and makeup beyond their years to be Daddy's date. Where the hell are the mothers?

[Ian David]

205. I have several theories

a) You posted it in the wrong forum.
b) You pissed-off one person, who in turn PM'd some of their friends to join them in giving you a hard time.
c) Your photos weren't sufficiently creepy enough.
d) You're going to die alone, and die a virgin, in a house full of cats and potted ferns.

I just threw in that last one to give you a hard time.

[stanwyck]

206. Thanks for the theories

and I certainly hope (d) doesn't come true....I do have cats. No ferns. And the virgin thing....I'm more "like a virgin"...you know, like Madonna.

[Kolesar]

211. n/t

[kath]

207. I skimmed that previous thread yesterday, and it lookes like it got

pretty much hijacked by a poster or two. At any rate, it sure took a VERY different tack from this one. (I missed that thread at the time, or else was too busy to post)

of course, many experts agree that it is very beneficial for girls to have a good relationship with their father. But this "purity ball" thing is a different kettle of fish entirely - it's not healthy for girls to be "owned" by their ultra-patriarchal fathers.

[Ian David]

213. We should hold a special "Hygiene Ball" to celebrate our children's nostrils...

and make them pledge never to let anyone else pick their noses until they're married.

We need to take ownership of every orifice in our children's bodies.

[HughBeaumont]

212. Right, and that was making me barf more than ANYthing.

There were people jumping on me in that thread. I mean, HOW can anyone defend this inappropriate insanity? Look at the little girl in the yellow above. WHY is the subject of "purity until marriage" being brought up regarding a girl barely out of diapers and sippy cups? This is done with other young girls in front of other weird fundie men that think they're being good fathers; yeah, because that's purely normal and not one ounce disgusting.

The idea of a female as chattel and their purity as a "wedding gift" to be passed on from the father to the groom is . . . not sweet but pretty damned creepsicle weird and not something to seriously be defended on a progressive board.

[kath]

219. Hugh, stanwyck said it in that thread, and I'll say it here -- you were a HERO

when you said things like: "I'm sorry, but I'm looking at a creep who's placing his 19th century neo-dominionist patriarchal interests over the proper upbringing of his daughter. It's far too much about insecure male control over the female. Women are treated as property and in this case, that outdated concept is being instilled way too young". You had several really good posts. The one about "this whole huge moment of 'deflowering'" was just awesome.


It really warms the cockles of my heart when a guy "gets it" - when he understands how much patriarchal bullshit is out there and how much it affects wedding rituals and the whole way that we see gender roles. There was no way I was going to have my dad "give me away" at my wedding (I perhaps *might* have considered having *both* parents do it, but they're divorced) and I wanted absolutely no part of anything remotely resembling a veil (ack!). Didn't want an engagement ring (combination of thinking that it maybe at least somewhat smacked of patriarchy, plus distaste of how women compare diamond sizes as if they reflect the relative values of their fiances, plus we didn't have much money and would rather spend what $$ we had on a nice vacation). And if the woman is supposed to wear a wedding ring, then the man should too. (I won't EVEN get into the name-changing thing, because previous threads here on the subject have brought out a lot of dismayingly antiquated, sexist attitudes)

Yaaaay to Hugh, and Bluebear and all the other DUers (male and female) who "get it". And double YAAAAAAY to stanwyck for fighting the good fight on that other thread. I just took the time to read the whole thing and it was pretty :puke: -inducing.

[HughBeaumont]

225. Thank you. The whole thing is bizarre and vastly inappropriate.

Especially regarding the little girl in the yellow above. Well, to ALL the girls up there, but especially her - that is NOT something to be even THOUGHT about at that age. They're kids; little kids, not purity trophies. Nothing really makes the hair on my neck stand up, but THAT did. I'm guessing none of these "dads" took any secondary education other than patriarchal church-based "seminars" or "classes". If they did, they would have known that abstinence-only over progressive sex-ed is detrimental and going to do more harm than good later on in life.

Yes, I'm in firm belief that both genders should have sex before their wedding night; hell, several TIMES before their wedding night. You want the night to be memorable, and because virgins (particularly in cultist religions like this) don't know any better, they're building themselves up for this shining, happy, "so awesome" moment . . . and then it's awkward and then it's painful and messy and then it sucks. Wow, that was something to put in the scrapbook, wasn't it?

[Ian David]

230. I wonder if some of those men aren't really their fathers...

but just horny old pedophiles who want to do something "classy" with their "girlfriends."

[HughBeaumont]

235. I think Chubmaster in the blue suit and very bad haircut would qualify.

As well as "Mr. Masterlock" in the first photo.

[seabeyond]

217. do you have the other thread. i am curious.

it was here a year ago or so and didnt seem like people were defending. but so long ago i couldnt remember

[HughBeaumont]

223. This is the one . . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=958611

[seabeyond]

239. thanks, interesting. appreciate it. n/t

[stanwyck]

240. There were lots of defenders

I was aghast that so many people were in favor of this Daddy as "keeper of the gate" ceremony. But, as you can see, there they are.

[seabeyond]

247. you held to the point of it is the females sexuality to own

not a father and a husband... i like that. not many would actually address what you are saying. but maybe some of the creepiness is the fact there were not pictures on the op ergo not showing the creepiness.

i have my whole experience and understanding with the female sexuality from my own experience in a christian private school and watching how the children were taught to address their sexuality. from my experience what i saw is it is a very unhealthy way to be raised, though they do have their right of choice, and they are doing this out of "fear" and that never works. their way doesnt work. but creepy it is.

my kids were in the boyscouts out of the school and they way this group addressed the subject and then went on to tell me how hard it is for teenage boys with girls, ... they will bring in a girl or two to interact with a group of boys, so the boys can get used to girls. the man telling me this said i would have appreciated something like that when i was young. between sexual predators, a film on it, and this man.... i pulled kids out of that troop. no way was i havding boys over to these people.

but they do have a messed up retarded view on sex and all.... i believe why they have such a struggle. and i swear it goes to day one teaching the babies we are all sinners, sex is bad, chantlike...

[seabeyond]

248. dupe

[Matariki]

215. My Mom ENCOURAGED me to 'play the field' in high school ;-)

Actually encouraging my 'ethical sluttiness' :evilgrin:

Really, I think she was far more afraid of me getting stuck with some guy I met in high school and foregoing college than she was of me being sexually active. Really sexually active actually since it was the 70's

God bless her.

[jmowreader]

216. A scene we'll never get to see...

"Julie, it's time for you to take the Purity Pledge," said her father. He hands her a nicely printed parchment scroll. "Read, aloud, and then sign."

Julie unrolls the scroll. She quickly scans it.

'Umm...dad? I'm not real sure you want me to sign this.'

"Why not? That's what you're here for."

'Well...Dad, you know Eric, the cute boy I've been doing my homework with for the last six months, up in my room every day after school? The only homework we've been doing is Sex Ed.' Julie blushes a little.

"What are you saying?"

'Dad, we've been having sex every day for the last six months. Right in my bedroom. You haven't noticed all the used rubbers in my trash can?'

[HughBeaumont]

224. Oh man . . . .

I could see like, the whole thing grind to a dead silent halt, the dad's heart come close to stopping and shocked agape looks all around; as if someone in the middle of one of their sermons walked up to the pulpit and whizzed on it.

That'd be a camcorder moment. Most worthy to happen to this creep than anyone -



I mean, dude, that's your DAUGHTER! What's with the weird leer? Ew.

[Skidmore]

229. This is beyond creepy, it's is totally sick.

[BoneDaddy]

231. Just one more

reinforcement of the Christian Patriarchal stupidity machine.

[Irreverend IX]

236. The Purity Ball Thread is immortal.

No matter how many times it dies, it will always be reposted. Sounds like a lot of people here didn't witness its fucked-upness the first few times it was discussed on DU.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

256. went to a neighbot's family wedding last year.

the son, (a really nice kid) was marrying into an evangelical family (and his parents were, shall we say, in love with their DIL, not the in-laws).

The ceremony was strange, until I realized that daddy-in-law was actually reciting from the pledge she signed the year before, and that he was granting her virginity to the neighbor's son. I'd say that 3/4s of the church was more than slightly freaked out.

But wait. It got worse.

Daddy-in-law decided to dance at the reception BEFORE neighbor's sonny boy. He started up, chased everyone to their tables, then hit the floor with his 18 yr old daughter.
He chose a hip-hugging, slow dance, and I swear, he continually felt up his daughter - her breasts (which were ample) her thighs and her butt. This was no accidental glancing touch by accident, but an all out sexual grab and feel.

EVERYONE (except for one person) in the reception hall was now freaked and disgusted. The only one who ignored it was mommy-in-law, who was either trashed on bubbly, drugged to the gills, or deliberately, willfully ignorant of the incest that was taking place under the spotlights on the dance floor.

even those who believed in purity crap were offended (three of them sat at my table - our conversations were strained).

[ellie]

237. Uh no.

My virginity was none of my father's business, thank you very much.

[Marie26]

238. Ewww. nt

[Imagevision]

241. Any normal male who finds a love that pledges her virginity to her father?

How long would you hang around? - not because of the sex but the logic?!!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

254. more that that - a healthy fear of shotguns and castration devices

those would probably be the foremost on my mind.

of course, most girls who ahve put up with this shit for a while, will probably lie to their dates. After all, these girls have the HIGHEST RATE OF out of wedlock pregnancies and STDs. Somehow learning about prevention and birth control goes out the window.

Faith based balls replacing biology and logic - The train wreck-like result is pre-ordained.

[Generic Other]

257. creeped out

totally barf-o-rama...