The Economy Has Fallen And Can't Get Back Up

[DemocratSinceBirth]

This economy simply sucks. There is no whitewashing it. One in five Americans are unemployed, underemployed, or too discouraged to look for a job because they looked for months or years and can't find one.

Economists have a fifty dollar word for folks who want to buy stuff. They called it aggregate demand. There is not enough aggregate demand for employers to hire new employees to meet that demand.

I hate the lack of aggregate demand.

Merry Christmas.

[fasttense]

1. But, supply siders claim they can create demand.

Why they aren't creating demand right now, no one seems to have an answer for.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Real Estate Has Led The Nation Out Of Eight Of The Last Nine Recessions

The economy simply can not recover until real estate does.

[RandomThoughts]

3. Interesting concept.

The attacks on so many with better concepts of having a balance of how they treat others, and not about things like money gain or power for themselves. When so many either sided with opposites, or were fought against from being seen or heard.

With so many that actually fought for better societies removed from discourse by hiding of better thoughts from society by media control, and by actions that disregard those better ideas of courageous and honorable society, the removal of so many of them, either by them agreeing to be part of the other concepts, or even where they were tried to be pushed out, causes the problems.


Heal the King, Heal the Land.

How does that work, do you even know? heal those with kingly virtue, not kingly position, and they will spread those concepts and ideas through society. Find people that did not agree with wrongful actions, or new people that did not sell out and lose the ability to heal the land, and as they move up they can spread those better concepts that are suppose to be about a better society.

Heal the King, Heal the Land, was never about healing one person, nor about Arthur, but returning the concepts that the world can be better, and have justice with compassion, by honoring people that move and act in that fashion, and getting them into positions where they can make a difference, not by trying to keep them from being heard, or smearing them to try and keep power with corrupt concepts.

[onethatcares]

9. real estate cannot recover until people have jobs

credit and a sense that next year they won't be cleaning out dumpsters for food.

Meanwhile back on the ranch, the bankers are running out of blood diamonds to shower their loved ones with. :shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

19. the real estate bubble took down the economy

I used to be a realtor in Los Angeles. My MIL had a home in the valley, that *at best* was worth perhaps 250K. She called me about 6 months before the shit hit the fan in the economy, and told me her house had been re-appraised at 500K. She had done NO improvements, the area around her home is a shithole -- but they doubled her appraisal rate!

She wanted to get a line of equity credit on the new appraisal rate! I told her not to -- that she would get into real trouble if she did and the economy took a downturn. It was NUTS to even consider.

She took the loan and now is having problems. That house should never have been appraised THAT high. Many people were flat-out conned into this sort of scenario. And now they are paying for it.

And yes, she took the loan. And is trying to get out of it now.

[SpiralHawk]

4. "Smirk." - The Decider (R - AWOL)

[sendero]

5. Oh but didn't you hear...

... the recession is over. The economists said so. You know, the same gaggle of idiots that never saw it coming in the first place. Those idiots.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Technically It's Over

But we need sustained 3%- 4% real GDP growth to bring down the jobless rate and we don't have that.

[sendero]

7. My point..

.. is that the technical definition of a recession has no practical value any more. None.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. You Are 100% Right

Back to my fallen and can't get back up analogy.

We picked up the economy got it into bed and it is resting comfortably. It just lacks the strength to get out of bed.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Lots of Economists Saw It Coming

I agree with your later point that the traditional definition is useless, and it has been for more than 30 years.

But, this particular situation was predicted by many, many folks from the analytic school.
GAC

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. You Don't Have To Be An Economist To Figure It Out

Tepid growth isn't going to make an economy thrive just as an eight hundred calorie a day diet won't make an individual thrive.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. That Has What To Do With What I Said?

Your reply is a nonsequitur. The only reason why it's tangentially related to what i said is that the word economist is in the title.
GAC

[xchrom]

10. recommend

[KharmaTrain]

11. A Vicious Cycle...

We are stuck in a long cycle that the leaders and corporates in this country are ignoring at their own peril...and now are in total denial.

We've gone from a manufacturing society...a country that made things to a service economy that sold things to one that now has neither. Outsourcing and technology have destroyed the basic economic structure that drives the consumer economy. As you call it..."aggregate demand". The conflict is we look at this game from a national viewpoint, the corporates play on a global chessboard. When they found cheaper labor to build up the bottom lines they didn't hesitate...and when they see "aggregate demand" elsewhere...like in China or Europe, that's where their interests lie.

This country needs to build its infrastructure from scratch...create new industries (alternative energy is a good start) and incentivize small business that are the spreahead of innovation and ultimate job creation. It means dealing head-on with the debt bombs that are what's strangling the credit markets that prevent many from either setting up shop or expanding. It's investing in rebuilding roads, sewers, bridges, power grids and many other necessities and into education to provide the talents to innovate and create further. Ahh...I know it's only a dream...but one must try to be upbeat somehow.

Cheers...

[TBF]

12. It is the capitalism - it needs to go. nt

[IDemo]

15. "Jobless recovery" is as nonsensical a phrase as "crash landing" n/t

[Possumpoint]

16. You Don't Have Recovery

For the very same reason that we didn't have a depression. Those in charge of the financial well being of the United States and to a certain extent, parts of Europe, borrowed printed and increased the money supply to patch the holes in the balloon. Heaven forbid that a major investment bank lose money with its investments. Debt, the hidden thief, has been grown to cover the sins of previous debt.

As painful as corrections are, there is a purpose. They clean out the corruption, rot, and bad investments so that growth can be generated on a solid footing. That process was stopped. The very people who caused the problems still have their jobs and are getting more obscene bonuses based on their selling their lies. The rich continue to get richer and more tax adverse.

Now there is so much debt that whole nations are tottering on the brink of insolvency. Other nations and national banks hold the debt of these debtor nations and realize if they fail, everyone goes down. To save the nations more debt is imposed without the regards of the ability to pay but that is on the international front.

We don't have a sustainable recovery because we've developed and economy based on consuming materials built outside of our own country. We produce very few in comparison commodities for internal consumption. Why? Our wage levels and living standards grew to the point where corporations found that they could make more profits by moving the manufacturing process overseas. We are now seeing a decline in wages except in government and financial institutions. Without high wages and still carrying the debts incurred when we did have them, we cannot afford to buy the goods we use to. Real Estate is starting to fall out side the range of affordability. There goes one of the last hopes of the middle class in being able to improve their financial footing.

[bullimiami]

17. The economy had its legs stolen out from under it.

[Sirveri]

18. 1 in 9 is unemployed. 1 in 18 is underemployed

U5 = 11.3%
U6 = 17.0%

U6-U5 = Pure underemployment rate = 5.7%

1 in 6 would be a closer number to your statement (16.6%), which is supposed to be on U6 by your statements. Normally when talking about unemployment, I use U5, because people in the U6 category do have jobs, and it tends to muddy the waters to include them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. How About Independent Contractors?

~

[Sirveri]

21. I'm just quoting the A-15 table from bls.gov

http://bls.gov/news.release/empsit.toc.htm

Plenty of data available, I really enjoy the racial breakups, 8.9% for whites, 16% for blacks. As I'm not sure what the exact numbers you're looking for I'll give the direct link and you can hopefully find it yourself. You should be able to find how they derive those numbers somewhere on that website, and if independent contractors are represented. My guess is that they have a way to account for contractors and for small business owners.

[Sapphireprick]

23. Democrats need to control congress again so that extra stimulus can be passed

No stimulus will pass while the narrow-minded economy know-nothing Republicans hold a majority.

[mdmc]

24. r