We are so far beyond needing tax cuts its not even funny.

[Stinky The Clown]

What are the tax cuts worth to an average middle class family? A few thousand bucks?

Sure, that's not a small sum to many. But really. We need every middle class and below American to have TENS of thousands in tax breaks.

What is the average age of the in-service car fleet? What is the average age of a home's roof. Or the furnace? Or the windows?

How many kids aren't going to college for a lack of money and nothing more?

How many retirees have watched their life's work evaporate to the point where Social Security is all they have?

There was a story a few weeks ago that big screen teevees will be the bargain of the season - because there is a glut of them that no one is buying.





The New Depression is coming on fast. And there are a lot of heads in the sand.

If the wholesale - MASSIVE - transfer of wealth is not quickly reversed, there will be a great deal of suffering.

And they have us quibbling over FUCKING CRUMBS.



It has never been more true. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

Or you have your head up your ass.

[leftstreet]

1. The average 'tax cut' probably wouldn't pay for half a dental crown

Smoke mirrors bullshit

[rucky]

8. Unless you're a 2-percenter

then you could afford a whole mouth full of diamond-encrusted crowns with your tax break.

[leftstreet]

9. You could afford to have someone else chew your food for you!

oh...:puke:

[Wednesdays]

16. Come, come, now. You don't have to get that crown.

Instead of whining, you should think of alternatives. For example, you could live off of creamed corn, instead. Or cat food.

[Kaleva]

2. Income taxes were raised dramatically during the Great Depression.

Also, the FICA taxes came into being.

[BzaDem]

3. For a family of 4 making anywhere near the poverty line, the difference is at least 2k.

In other words, instead of getting X +2k back, they would only be getting X back. If we get Obama's stimulus middle class tax credits extended too, the difference between "deal" and "no deal" would be closer to 4k (even for a family of 4 only making 40k/year).

Yet now some people here (in their desire to perpetually attack Obama) are saying that they don't need these "welfare" payments in this horrible economy. Amazing.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. If Obama is willing to give nearly a TRILLION FUCKING DOLLARS to the rich, then spend that and .....

..... give it to the people Obama SAID he would give it to.

I am beyond disgusted with Obama caving in like a little kid to a bully on this issue.


Don't try to turn this into dissing small tax cuts for little people. Admit to what you know damned full well it is - disgust at ANOTHER MASSIVE CAVE IN and aother MASSIVE WEALTH TRANSFER on borrowed money.

[bigtree]

11. sure, there's a larger debate here about economics and the future

. . . but, there's also a matter of what happens to tens of millions of families and their budgets in the interim of a political fight if the President doesn't compromise and the tax breaks are allowed to expire. I don't know why that interim consequence isn't given as much consideration as the long term. There's quite a lot of indifference to that consequence to middle-class families - the majority making an average of $50,000 a year - as folks advocate letting the cuts expire, and, suggest that Democrats wage an uphill and uncertain political fight over economics.

Am I allowed to be angry or disgusted at that indifference?

[Stinky The Clown]

19. You are. But debating that with ME is pointless.

I am totally in favor of a middle class tax cut right now. AND down the line.

If we had any leadership, that would have been the debate. Instead, with the weak leadership we have, we're debating the repubican agenda.

[truedelphi]

13. + 1. n/t

[BzaDem]

15. I'm going to mention its affect on the middle class whether you like it or not.

Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You're obfuscating.

I am not against tax cuts for the middle class right now.

I never advocated to allow all the cuts to expire.

I am complaining about our WEAK LEADERSHIP on this issue. Obama is having the debate the repubicans want him to have. Plus he's a weak negotiator.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

4. We have to start somewhere...

...baby steps.

If we can stand up to Republicans just once, maybe we can do it twice. But we'll never get there if we don't win one, first.

Why wait? Tax cuts are on the table. If nothing more, it's symbolic. For principle and symbol, it's a fight worth winning.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. I don't follow what it is you're espousing.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

10. I totally agree with you but...

...I don't think the tax cut *debate* is a small matter. I want it to be the turning point. It has to be the turning point.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Okay. I get it now. Sorry.

The debate, sadly, is the one the repubs wanted us to have. We've *never* had control of this one. We could have. We *should* have. But we didn't.

[kctim]

7. Pay cuts = votes lost

[WiffenPoof]

12. As A Side Note....

I recall the fact that many here complained that President Bush did not call for sacrifice from the American people. In fact, he made a point of telling us to "go out and shop." In the same breath he was trying to convince us that were were in great danger.

The point here is that the mantra of "no sacrifice" seems to be continuing. Why aren't the rich asked to sacrifice. Don't they feel any social obligation to assist the rest of the country....After all, would have it become possible for the rich to become rich if they didn't live in a country that made it possible.

Now, we are finally called upon to sacrifice...but it is not from being asked to by the President. The bill is due and the middle class will once again, be the ones to make the payments.

-PLA

[Hydra]

14. Oh, we've been sacrificing the whole time

The people at the top have been demanding we sacrifice our future to them.

The problem is that the future is catching up to us. It might even be tomorrow.

[demigoddess]

17. it is all they know how to do. For years now, all they have done

is hand out incentives and tax cuts, usually for the richer segment of society. And wage cuts for the working classes.

They do not seem to remember how to pass laws. they just pass out another tax cut.