Two wars and a double dip recession should dictate less glitz.

[grasswire]

To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.

In a democracy that is in deep peril, I think it is wrong to display great excess no matter the occasion, no matter the attendees.

I love Michelle Obama. Her dress for the state dinner was made by forty people working three weeks in a workroom in India; family members of the designer. Made from the finest silk, woven by hand and embroidered by hand for the occasion. It was beyond beautiful. Fit for a queen.

But fit for the spouse of a Democrat in America today? A man elected to bring help and change that can only happen if he forces the wealthy to rein in their greed so that the "American Dream" will not die -- so that children will not hunger and parents will have work and everyone will afford health care?

A higher road, a more inspiring example to the world, a stand of more integrity, would be a scaling down of ostentation in the Obama White House. This is a somber time for the planet. Optimism is welcome, but optimism is not best communicated through a show of wealth. Optimism is best communicated through dedication to policy change that puts workers first.

Perception is everything. And there's a deep growling out there from those who can't sleep at night and fear the future -- a dangerous growling that can be exacerbated by symbols like a soiree and a silk dress.

[avaistheone1]

1. I think given the times we are living in

the Obamas should tone down how they are living in the White House. Record unemployment, people losing the roofs over their heads, and over 44,000 American losing their lives as the result of the lack health insurance, along with a backdrop of hundreds of thousands of our troops at war dictates the White House take things down a notch.

This is not the time for the Obamas to be playing the Great Gatsbys at the White House. I really think they could show more sensitivity to plight of many Americans just trying to get though the day and our troops who are sacrificing in Irag and in Afghanistan. The Obamas appear to be some parallel universe, untouched from it all.

Okay people can flame on me now.

[hileeopnyn8d]

5. Maybe they should just move

out of the White House. I mean who the hell do they think they are, anyway?

:eyes:

[avaistheone1]

13. I don't think that is what the OP was saying at all.

:think:

[okieinpain]

159. yeah such bastards. but of course if they did what you say

the pundits would be calling them ignorant low life's who are making us a mockery to the rest of the world.

go figure.

[bikingaz]

239. don't forget the $ 140 million spent on the inauguration

that was 4 x more than the Bushies. Just what we needed in the these times.

[hileeopnyn8d]

245. Nice right-wing talking point

His inauguration did not cost four times more than Bushes. The number that the right-wing was throwing around for Bushes inauguration ($40 million) did not include the $115 million in security costs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4921621

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200901170003

[dionysus]

250. thanks for the input freep.

[Clio the Leo]

2. My father is a preacher.....

.... he tells the story of visiting with a poor, elderly couple, way up in the hills of Eastern Kentucky back in the 1960s. They were probably the poorest people he'd ever seen (and he grew up pretty poor himself.)

They had one plate that wasn't broken .... and they let him eat off of it. They butchered their hog for his visit. They'd have to live off of that meat all winter.

A good hostess puts out her very best for her guest, regardless of her economic situation.

Perception IS everything.

[avaistheone1]

7. Being a good host does not mean being ostentatious.

A good host simply tries to make their guest feel comfortable, attend to their basic needs, and possible provide some entertainment. The White House should take note.

[grasswire]

79. I appreciate your story...

...and I have re-read it several times trying to discern if there is a parallel or not. I think there is not a parallel, and here's why.

It is not the same for a very poor person to put forth his/her best AND a person of means and social power to show the extent of it in a very public way, when the person of means and power has control of the lives of those who have NO means/power.

[elehhhhna]

3. oh cripes. get serious. please.

[PBS Poll-435]

4. I disagree

That is all I am going to say.

[Bad Thoughts]

6. Maybe they should have had a BBQ at a Texas Ranch

That would put out diplomacy on the right track.

[avaistheone1]

9. Why not?

Diplomacy is not about putting on airs, and acting like they are a bunch of kings.

A little sensitivity is in order.

[Cha]

14. Because that was bush's stupid

schtick.

And, nobody put on airs.

[avaistheone1]

16. The same stuff is going down.

[Cha]

21. That's your fucking bullshit answer

for everything..and I'm not buying your negative shit.

[avaistheone1]

34. Well I thought it was an appropriate answer

given your bullcrap reply.

Sorry you gave me shit to work with.

[Cha]

37. You make your own shit.

[avaistheone1]

47. I sure

don't need or want yours.

Keep it to yourself.




:hurts:

[Cha]

121. As you say from your big shit pile.

[dionysus]

251. don't bother. you can't change the Failer's minds.

i applaud your patience

[jefferson_dem]

42. There's no pleasing this crop of serial whiners.

They will create some phony poutrageous incident to get gloomy about if nothing real exists. Best to take the "mock and move on" approach. Sucks to be them. Seriously.

[hileeopnyn8d]

18. You're

starting to dig yourself into a nasty hole you may not be able to dig your way out of.

"putting on airs"

Are you suggesting the Obamas are acting 'above' their staion in life? Maybe you should just get it over with and call them uppity.

[Lilyeye]

29. You hit the nail on the head

This thread is the biggest pile of bullshit. Now the Obama's are being criticized for dressing nicely? I would expect this shit from a right wing nut.

[Bad Thoughts]

39. The Obamas have clean underwear! Ostentatious!

Now we've hit the lowest low.

[Cha]

70. Yeah, what's up with that?

The Obamas are having a State Dinner( A sustainable, regional, mostly vegetable menu--and curry gets a nod, in honor of India")
for the India's PM Manmohan Singh and wife Gursharan Kaur..building on good with relations with that country and he gets accused of "putting on airs" by a so-called Democrat?

[Ikonoklast]

201. There are DU'ers not happy with Obama because...

well, he is black, you know.

They just can't come out and say it, because they know they'll get banned, but talk all around it.

It sickens me.

[hileeopnyn8d]

217. Oh, I know there are,

and it sickens me too. Though, I think some don't even recognize it in themselves.

[jefferson_dem]

46. "Putting on airs"?

Really? Is this what you meant to say - "uppity black couple"?

[LynneSin]

118. Let's just take them to the local McDonalds

:eyes:

[hileeopnyn8d]

8. Is there a source for this

part of your post:

"Her dress for the state dinner was made by forty people working three weeks in a workroom in India; family members of the designer. Made from the finest silk, woven by hand and embroidered by hand for the occasion."

[left coaster]

11. Source?

I'm guessing maybe Politico, or Drudge, or? Pure RW smearing, business as usual.

[grasswire]

24. the designer himself told of the process on CNN last night

He proudly described how laborious and skilled and fine the processes were that made the dress. Forty people, three weeks. Hand woven, hand embroidered, finest of the fine.

[Cha]

73. And, that upsets you..too bad. And, too bad

you accused the Obamas of "putting on airs" when they obviously were doing just the opposite.

[avaistheone1]

116. No one said.

Instead it was being asked if that what was being said?

[jenmito]

10. You forgot to post the link from this obvious RW opinion peice...

I hope. :eyes:

[avaistheone1]

12. Even if it is a RW opinion piece the critique holds.

It seems the Obamas don't have any problem spending to the max be it on vacations, or in the White House without any sensitivity to plight of most Americans and the time we are in.

Fire away.

[jenmito]

15. First of all, the OP says that we're in a double-dip recession. Really?

And how do you know what the Obamas spend on vacations and in the WH? You don't. They're having a State Dinner and doing it for the PM of India. It's very important to have good relations with India. Obama's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Remember the criticism he got for giving the Queen of England personalized DVDs?

[avaistheone1]

22. Wrong. I do know.

Luxury Getaways for the President: Martha's Vineyard and Beyond
President Obama's Martha's Vineyard Getaway Is Expected to Cost Tens of Thousands; Where Else Could He Go for That Kind of Money?

What can tens of thousands of dollars buy for a family vacation? In the case of the nation's first family, think of a secluded, waterfront property complete with horse paddocks, a boat house and an apple orchard.

Those are just a few of the amenities offered by the Blue Heron Farm, the 28.5-acre Martha's Vineyard estate where President Obama, his family and, of course, the Secret Service will spend part of the president's summer vacation next week.

Tom Wallace, of Wallace and Company Sotheby's International Realty, said the property, which is home to a five-bedroom main house, also features a Cape Cod guest house, a swimming pool and a half-court basketball court. The Obamas will have their pick of activities on the property, ranging from kayaking on the West Tisbury Great Pond to a simple game of horseshoes.

"It's the type of place that once you get there, it's not something you want to leave," Wallace said. "It's very tranquil, great place for a family vacation. The kids will absolutely have a ball, as I'm sure Bo will also."

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8357806

[hileeopnyn8d]

27. Every single

place they had considered going on vacation (and if I recall there were many) was shot down by the Secret Service as being impossible to maintain security.

The don't own a vacation 'ranch' or a house in a location that is suitable for getaways. They own a house in a high density urban center.

[avaistheone1]

31. I am aware they to not have a vacation home.

Do you have a link re SS shooting down other locations?

[jenmito]

33. The ONE vacation you cite as proof the Obamas don't care about

the economy or the people affected, they paid for themselves.

[avaistheone1]

48. Why does it have to be so ostentatious?

Are they that rich how did that happen?

[jenmito]

53. You must be kidding. They're the FIRST FAMILY and they have money thanks to

Obama's book sales.

[grasswire]

62. wait

I thought his book sales paid for their Chicago house. That was the explanation for the expensive home.

[jenmito]

66. So you think they couldn't afford to pay for their vacation? How do YOU think they made

their money-selling drugs? I wouldn't be surprised if that's what you think.

[avaistheone1]

92. You really take things to extremes.

[jenmito]

95. You didn't answer how you think they got the money to pay for their vacation.

[avaistheone1]

125. I have no idea and I did not raise that point.

How do you think they got the money do so?

[jenmito]

132. Oh, that was your board buddy. You stepped into the convo. and she didn't answer. n/t

[Jamastiene]

188. You are so entertaining to watch.

Your head practically explodes if someone dares to say anything even the slightest bit critical about President Obama at all. :popcorn:

[jenmito]

225. Really?

Then you'd think it would be easy for someone to answer me when they're called on something. :shrug: I guess you're easily entertained, though.

[harkadog]

181. They didn't pay shit

The house was loaned to them. But I have no problem with them or any president going on vacation and taking time off.

[jenmito]

226. Really? Then that's GREAT! They did NOT "spend to the max" as the poster said.

Thanks!

[hileeopnyn8d]

23. Yes

they're really known for their vacations aren't they?

Didn't they pay for it themselves anyway? It was also cut into by severals events, including the death of a friend.

This place kills me.

[avaistheone1]

26. Nope.

Read on the taxpayers paid for most of that.

Thank you.

[hileeopnyn8d]

32. You're wrong

The taxpayers only paid for the Secret Service. I guess he could just do without the extravagant security.

[avaistheone1]

36. I never said that Obama should do without security.

Not me.

[tblue37]

236. And Michelle was criticized for wearing a cardigan to meet the queen--

remember?

[jenmito]

38. Do you have proof of them "spending to the max be it on vacations, or in the White House"? TIA.

[dionysus]

249. ok, i will. you're delusional.

:shrug:

your constantly expressed wish to see obama fail is your security blanket.

[prolesunited]

17. I disagree

The tone was set with a vegetarian menu and items grown in the White House garden, an example that will lead to a healthier planet.

As for the dress, you make it sound like Michelle was promoting sweatshop labor.
The designer certainly does not feel exploited:
In an interview with People.com, Khan expressed his excitement over clothing the FLOTUS on such an apt occasion:

"I feel so happy to be a part of this historical event between the two countries where my heart lies. I am relieved to have a job well done and am so honored to have been chosen. This is a Thanksgiving in its truest form for me and one that I will never forget--an American dream coming true."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/25/naeem-khan-michelle-obama_n_370721.html

The designer comes from a line of designers and it was created in the family's workshop. My guess is that both the designer and those who helped make the dress are beyond thrilled by the favorable attention this dress has received.

[Cha]

19. Thank you, prole! How nice that you brought

some reality to this thread!

[avaistheone1]

28. Well so long as the designer is happy

then everything must be peachy.

Any child labor involved?

[treestar]

131. You have no evidence whatsoever of child labor being involved

Making up false accusations. Interesting.

[avaistheone1]

195. I think it is a logical question given the number of people working on

it and the trade practices of the country of origin.

Those are the facts.

[treestar]

220. There are no facts

That's just a speculation.

[prolesunited]

143. Baseless speculation

Maybe he beats the children as well and only feeds them gruel.

[avaistheone1]

197. Perhaps.

I said I am speculating. Perhaps the children are treated that way. It is not unusual there.

[Ikonoklast]

256. What brand of sneakers do you wear?

[grasswire]

35. of course they are thrilled

...but they are also in India, the land where many are thrilled to have jobs that used to be done by American workers. Did you know that American high tech corporations are now choosing the best and brightest young Indian students, bringing them to the U.S. for a subsidized education at our finest institutions and then putting them to work at American companies doing offshore work?

The whole system is screwing Americans. We are being weakened to the point of no recovery.

[hileeopnyn8d]

253. Only the embroidery

was done in India, by the designers father's workshop. Everything else was done in the designers studio in NY.

The designer is an American citizen, he came here to go to school in 1978, he started working as an assistant to Halston, Halston sponsored him and he became a citizen. He's a business owner in this country.

[tblue37]

237. And of course they will also end up with more business from having dressed the

First Lady so beautifully.

[TwilightGardener]

20. I want glitz and glamour and to show the world that we're capable of pulling off a

grand, respectful and elegant event, as befits our country. I don't want Jimmy Carter and his cardigans.

[avaistheone1]

25. Oh fa crissake....like that is an important issue?

How about showing the world we will no longer allow 44,000 our citizens to die each and every year as a result of not being able to afford health insurance?

:grr:

[TwilightGardener]

30. Er...isn't he working on that? Or have I been hallucinating all these months?

And as far as important issues, bashing the Obamas for a lovely and gracious event seems so...unimportant. But since it was brought up by the OP...no, I don't want the Obamas pretending to be homespun folks on a middle class budget. That's insulting. I want them to be appropriately glitzed up for guests.

[grasswire]

41. maybe this is a class thing or an era thing

The era of $60,000 weddings and middle schoolers taking a limo to "prom" and McMansions and living large seems to still linger for some, but it really is so over.

For many today, a display of ostentation is immoral. For many today, it is a dagger to the spirit.

I hope you can see that millions of people react differently to a display of glitz than consumption-driven Americans do.

[TwilightGardener]

120. I didn't see it as "ostentation". I saw it as expected, customary finery at a formal event.

I expect Presidents and First Ladies to be elegantly dressed and to put together a really nice, dignified spread when hosting foreign heads of state, no matter what troubles exist. As someone above thread noted, when you have important party guests, you put out the good embroidered hand towels for the powder room, bust out the good china, and prepare a nice roast or some steak. You don't stick your hair in a scrunchy and serve up mac n cheese. That would be offensive--and dare I say, a dagger to the spirit.

[avaistheone1]

127. No one was suggesting they put on a scrunchy and serve up mac n cheese,

but how about some obvious recognition of the difficulties most of us are living with and tone things down a bit?

[TwilightGardener]

147. Tone things down--like how? Off the rack dress rather than a designer?

Less guests? A different chef? How does that help me? How does that help our relations with India?

[avaistheone1]

150. Oh horrors! How could they?! Please God don't say off-the-rack!!!

The trauma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

154. ??--most First Ladies have designer gowns for formal events.

Oh, wait, it's only wrong when Michelle Obama does it. She needs to get her sorry ass down to the Dress Barn and show some humility.

[avaistheone1]

155. Never said that she should go to Dress Barn.

What was the first lady wearing the last time we had a financial crisis so severe?

[TwilightGardener]

156. LOL--I see that you don't have a real point. You just want to bitch about the Obamas.

What First Ladies wore at state dinners was never so pressing a concern as it is RIGHT NOW!! If they had less shimmer in their fabrics, I'd feel SOOO much better!!!

[avaistheone1]

157. You didn't answer my question.

You are the one bitching and whining now. Get real.

[hileeopnyn8d]

158. She buys off the rack

and you're just being an asshole at this point.

I personally think you made it very, very clear what your problem is at the beginning of this thread when you stated that the Obamas are "putting on airs."

Which coincidentally is the only thing in this thread you haven't offered a rebuttal for.

[Cha]

141. It wasn't "ostentatious" and your

demagoguery isn't working.

"glitz" for a State dinner..that isn't even a good try.

[avaistheone1]

45. Ahh well...

This is no time for Obama and Michele to put on their crowns and shout "Mission Accoomplished".

There's No Real Insurance Reform In Health Care Bills

Former DNC chair Howard Dean, one of the most outspoken advocates of health care reform and a public option, said today that neither the House nor the Senate bill represents real insurance reform.

"This thing has been pretty watered down. Right now, it's about as watered down as it could be and still be a real bill. For example, there's really no insurance reform in this bill, already," Dean said on MSNBC.

He added that the Senate bill is "decent" and the House bill is "better." But, he said, insurance companies can still charge double for those with pre-existing conditions under the House bill.

"There's not a lot left to this bill. The public option is about it," Dean said.


http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/dean-theres-no-real-insurance-reform-in-health-care-bills.php



and now even the public option is in question.

[TwilightGardener]

135. Well, since I support even modest attempts at improving

the health care/insurance system, you're sorta barking up the wrong tree if you're hoping to score a point here. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of this bill. Some is better than nothing.

[avaistheone1]

146. Sometimes one is better off without

a half a loaf of bread if that half loaf is toxic.

As of last night it looks like there is no public option, and that insurance companies can charge pretty much anything they want to for those with pre-existing conditions. So those folks can be charged 300% more than the rest of us if the health insurance company so chooses.

I wouldn't break out the champagne on health reform just yet.

[TwilightGardener]

149. Haven't broken out champagne--nor am I singing a dirge, either.

Instead, I'm just waiting to see what happens, with optimism that things will get better.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Oy vey

Get a life.

[Hansel]

238. +1

[Kdillard]

43. It was not a frivilous party. It was a State Dinner for an important democracy. It is a

formal affair and Michelle was dressed appropriately and represented the White House very well. I also believe that Michelle is under an obligation to put her best foot forward in situations like that and not display some false common man mentality. I really can't believe that the Obama's have to be defended for giving a State dinner and not dressing in rags.

[avaistheone1]

52. God forbid. Michele look like a well dressed middle class woman

that would probably escalate a war somewhere, or would cause unemployment.

[treestar]

130. If she did, you'd be complaining that she had more than the poor

Or saying that she was not being ostentatious enough.

[avaistheone1]

134. And you would be critical if there were any criticism at all.

Because they are above it all.



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[treestar]

151. Ummm, no

You are the one advocating that the WH appear "middle class."

If it were, then what would be your problem with it?

You are not just talking about the Obamas. You're expecting the WH not to be ostentatious. It always will be.

Life is like that. Countries show off their major monuments.

[avaistheone1]

153. Yup. That is one of our major monuments - ostentatious.

That is one of the key reasons are economy is having a melt-down - too much ostentatiousness.

Heard of Goldman Sachs?


:rofl:

[jenmito]

44. Sally Quinn just said, on MSNBC, "So when people look at this (state dinner) and say

this is a glitzy, glamorous, frivolous dinner party, they are so wrong." She was talking about how important the night was for relations with India and how it was serious diplomacy. She said how you treat and honor your guest makes a huge difference in how they will respond to the people of the U.S. and our goals in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[avaistheone1]

50. Yeah, Sally

isn't go to bite the gift horse in the mouth. That is what Sally Quinn is about. Consider the source.

I am sure Ken Lay would have loved it too. The Goldman Sachs probably would have been very comfortable the level of glitz as well.

.

[jenmito]

55. So you DON'T think it's important for the U.S. to have good relations with India,

especially re: the AfPak situation? :eyes:

[avaistheone1]

61. Oh.

If the White House toned it down a bit - I am sure we would be at nuclear war with India.

I work and live with Indians every day and they are not as superficial as folks on this thread are portraying.

[jenmito]

71. Wow. You obviously have no idea how diplomacy works. But you sure know how to

sound like a RWer.

[avaistheone1]

87. It sounds like a RWer

when you are more invested in superficial displays like glitz, than the real grunt work of diplomacy.

[jenmito]

91. This was a STATE DINNER where important diplomacy takes place. I'm surprised

you're old enough to know who Sally Quinn is but you're not smart enough to understand the importance of the State Dinner and the symbolism of it all.

[avaistheone1]

129. Red herring.

No takers.

[Cha]

171. Don't bother..the poster has

a grudge that requires "facts must not get in the way."

[jenmito]

175. I see that. It's sad how bad DU is getting...

we're not on a site anymore where like-minded people could get away from the constant criticism of the DEM. president.

[Cha]

177. No, we get it from the other end of the extreme where

they both meet in the middle when bitching about Obama.

"Putting on Airs"? Really?

[jenmito]

178. That's right.

I don't understand why they're allowed to continuously post extreme articles here.

[Cha]

119. I don't care who it was that said it..they were right and you

"The Obamas are putting on airs" types are wrong.

[grasswire]

54. Sally Quinn???????????

You must be too young to know the "creds" of Sally Quinn.

[avaistheone1]

57. I know exactly who she is.

[grasswire]

60. Har. (eom)

[jenmito]

59. I must be too young. But I know what she said and it made perfect sense, unlike the

critics on this thread, including the OP.

[grasswire]

67. it made perfect sense...

...to someone who doesn't know who Sally Quinn is. O.....kay. That says it all.

[jenmito]

77. Like your board buddy said, it doesn't matter where it came from. It still "holds."

:eyes:

[Cha]

124. I know who she is too..but what she says it right and..

I'll say this again..you "The Obamas are putting on airs" types are wrong.

[jenmito]

128. Thanks, Cha.

These posters are no better than freepers. They're probably saying the same exact things at their site.

[avaistheone1]

133. Careful jenmito.

The freepers are going to be saying the same thing as you Dec 1. You will be delighted with their agreement then. It will be fitting and proper then.

[jenmito]

137. You think so? I don't. And where's the "double dip recession" that the OP talked about

and you agreed with?

[Better Believe It]

49. It was a very classy affair .... ruling classy! One might even say bourgeois !

Something everyday working class Americans can identify with and be proud of.

:)

[Cha]

145. Like President Obama hasn't had many people at the

White House from all walks of life but that wouldn't fit into your ragging on the President MO.

[NYC Liberal]

51. This place has officially jumped the fucking shark.

Unbefuckinglievable.

The anti-Obama screeds here on this site are now turning to attacking him for taking a vacation (the horror!) and Michelle for wearing a nice dress. Wow.

I swear, the Obamas could walk around in burlap sacks and live out on the sidewalk getting their meals from a soup kitchen, and some here would attack them for the particular street they chose, or for hurting the environment by using a cardboard box for their shack, or for the soup kitchen they went to.

[avaistheone1]

56. Absolutely not.

Fucking believe this. The message is tone it down.

People are losing their jobs, tens of thousands of Americans are dying for lack of health insurance,
people are losing their homes, and about 1 and 6 Americans are on food stamps.

Get a clue. We are not asking the Obamas to walk around in burlap sacks, but to show some sensitivity. Is Obamas base not the middle class? Is looking like the middle class such a bad thing.

I am appalled.

[NYC Liberal]

65. Ok fine.

First off, he lives in a mansion. He should move out to show sensitivity to those living in a smaller or no home.
He flies around on a huge private jet. He should fly commercial because struggling middle class Americans don't have private jets.
He drives around with a motorcade. He should drive himself, and in a used car, since that's what everyone else does.
He has tons of security. He should drop his Secret Service detail to show sensitivity to those living in high-crime areas who don't have such protection.

I assume you are "appalled" at all of those things?

Give me a break. Empty gestures mean nothing. If Obama did do what you wanted him to do, there'd be a chorus here who would claim he was just doing it for show and then attack something else.

[avaistheone1]

74. I never said anything like that.

I don't think that the Obama's White House spending in these difficult times should be ostentations particularly in area of entertainment.

You have taken the OP as well as my comments completely out of context.

Just exactly what are the Obamas sacrificing given the ongoing war, which according to credible reports Obama will be escalating?

[NYC Liberal]

76. And you still haven't said what he should be sacrificing.

I gave you specific examples of things that cost a lost of money that could be done away with. You disagree with the examples I gave, so what do you suggest? Specifically.

[grasswire]

86. why the drama?

Why can't there be a strategic middle ground?

Anyone not knowing the sentiment that ostentation arouses in desperately poor folks better go back to high school world history class.

[Cha]

78. Your message is "Anti-Obama" screed All The Fucking

Time" and you're like the little boy who cried "Wolf".

"Wolf"..you tone it the fuck down.

[avaistheone1]

113. I think you are overwrought.

Take a deep breath. It is only thread.



No one is saying the Obamas should be fried in oil. Just tone down the entertainment a little.

Chill out.

[Cha]

117. I'm pointing out the facts.

[treestar]

138. Facts?

Now, we can't have those! :rofl:

We just need to find another thing to whine about, like the WH being the way it usually is!

[hileeopnyn8d]

85. If you look at the photos from the events earlier in the day

you will see that Michelle is wearing clothing that she's worn to several events prior. People seem to be forgetting that she still buys "off the rack" clothing for herself and her children.

[grasswire]

97. I know she does, God bless her.

She's a wonderful woman with a good heart. Her goodness is written on her face.

During the 1930s, thousands upon thousands of American women wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt to beg her to send her old clothes to them because their own clothes were falling off in rags. They begged for a blanket for the new baby, because they had none. They begged for some work, some relief, a bit of food. The despair in the land was deep; the deprivation was horrible.

Her husband did something about all this. He took on the powerful, and forced changes that would help the workers and families.

I pray that Michelle Obama never has to see that kind of mail. But her husband's policies vis a vis the financiers and industrialists favor the old villains that brought ruin to so many lives.

Do hungry children trump Wall Street profits? Do they?

I will always, proudly, be on the side of hungry children, workers, unions, the sick, the poor, the homeless, the elderly, the oppressed and the repressed.

I'm a Democrat.

[khal02]

90. UMM

Kill yourself...immediately. That is all.

[jefferson_dem]

99. At this very moment, the whole Obama family is working a community service event in DC.

...As you sit all comfy behind your keyboard, complaining on DU about last night's State Dinner.

[hileeopnyn8d]

110. Good point!

:thumbsup:

[treestar]

115. Right! They are always doing that sort of thing!

The President always seems to pick painting! I always see him with the paint roller!

[Cha]

152. Yeah, computer chair whiners.

While the Obamas are out helping the community.

There would be no support for doing something like this from the "Obamas are putting on airs" crowd.

[grasswire]

58. why does it have to be either silk OR rags?

Why can't there be middle ground, befitting a country at war and near economic failure?

It's disappointing that few seem to understand the strategic benefit of restraint in hard times.

[avaistheone1]

64. I don't understand why your point continues to be missed in this conversation.

:shrug:

[grasswire]

72. I am coming to see that ostentation means different things..

..to different folks.

To some, it is always vulgar.

To some, it sends an inappropriate message.

To some, it sends the message that "we're still doing okay"

To some, it is an extension of the sentiment that drives economic bubbles.

This is all very interesting.

[Better Believe It]

80. Because some people have ruling class affectations, sorta like groupies who admire the rich.

They wish they lived, dressed and ruled like them. Somewhat like groupies who admire the rich and famous.

[grasswire]

103. hmmmmmmmmm

You might have a point there.

[Cha]

169. Now you're accusing the Obamas of being groupies..your

raging ragging has no bounds.

[NYC Liberal]

68. Mmm hmm. And how *specifically* would you have Obama show

more restraint than he has?

Get rid of the Secret Service?
No more Air Force One?
Move out of the White House, a mansion?

What?

[grasswire]

81. again, why do you go to the extreme?? (eom)

[NYC Liberal]

83. And again, no specifics from you.

I posted some specifics with which you obviously disagree. Why don't you post your own suggestions?

[grasswire]

102. I did post my own suggestion.

Don't indulge in ostentation.

Come on. Think. You are better than this game of hand-slapping.

[NYC Liberal]

106. That means nothing.

"Don't indulge in ostentation."

How specifically should Obama not "indulge in ostentation"? Should he stop wearing good suits? Should he mow the White House lawn himself? What?

[Blue_Tires]

252. First of all, you know damn well that buying from Macy's or whatever "middle ground"

you are thinking of would be the atom bomb of negative PR until Easter, and that the Obama's wardrobe at formal events would be THE media focal point for the rest of the term...While not to harp on this point again; lest you forget, there is a sizable part of the world population (a few of them in my community) who continue to believe black folks cannot put on (and/or do not belong at) a proper formal state dinner PERIOD, to say nothing about running the top office in the U.S. right after George Bush...The Obamas need to be twice as clean in everything they do, and when in doubt in a formal situation (with a foreign head of state), erring on the side of class, etiquette and decorum is hardly ever wrong...FWIW as a youngster I went with my parents sometimes to formal or semi- events, and remember my mother's advice along with the "you-people-aren't-supposed-to-be-here" looks I sometimes saw....

Pardon me for saying, but I think your stance on this is inching toward "Full-retard Palin-esque". Not to stress the point, you DO realize President Barack Obama is representing the U.S. Government and by proxy the nation as a whole, right? Just curious, what exactly do you think they should have worn?? What is the cost or quality cut-off line for you? A dress made by 10 people in two weeks? Six people in 10 days? If you're the White House PR advisor for connecting with middle Americans in Peoria, what is the HARD number you limit the budget to??



Secondly, please do me a favor: Check and see if your bank got TARP funds (if it didn't, please pick a bank from the list of usual suspects), or if your favorite sports team got public cash for it's stadium...I bet you dollars to yen that the wives of the CEOs and team owners have 30 of those Michelle Obama dresses collecting dust in the closet...

Now here comes the hard part that will require some clever skill and prior planning: I want you to pick out a CEO's wife from that list (or Palin herself if you want a challenge) and CRASH their fuckin' Christmas party...That act by itself would be awesome, but you will make it UBER AWESOME when you address the partygoers with your comments from this thread...You do that, and you'll not only be performing a better public service than this OP; you will be doing myself and the movement a great favor -- Hell I may even PayPal you $15 if successful...Good luck, 007!

[jefferson_dem]

63. Absolutely.

Many of the "concerned critiques" of Obama on DU mirror the exact same nonsense they spew at FreeperVille.

I'm no longer surprised at what some of our "Democratic" friends conjure up to make themselves look like fools.

[NYC Liberal]

75. I just looked and yep, that's exactly what they're saying at FR.

I was reading through a few of the threads and they could have been posted here on DU without looking out of the ordinary.

[avaistheone1]

82. There will be more in common with FR

on Dec 1 when Obama announces the 37,000 troop escalation in Afghanistan.

You and FR will be jumping in glee. You will be glad to have so much in common with them then.

:kick:

[Cha]

88. No, anything Obama does is wrong is the meme

with the freeptards and with the so-called left.

All you have to do look at this freaking OP to see that.

[NYC Liberal]

93. Fail. I OPPOSE the escalation.

The difference is, I don't go around screaming and whining like a maniac. And I don't go around acting shocked at Obama's position when I knew it over a year ago, all throughout the campaign.

So no, I will not be jumping in glee, nor will I be doing it with FR. The only thing in common between DU and FR is the blind, unending hatred of Obama (by a small few on DU and by all on FR). And I'm not engaging in that. A small but very loud group here on DU is.

[grasswire]

98. again, why the extreme?

I don't hate the Obamas at all. I just want our president to be a Democrat and force Democratic change. I believe that strategic restraint is key to public sympathy for Democratic policies. It's hard to ask the wealthy to eschew greed without a personal commitment to restraint.

[NYC Liberal]

101. All I am asking is for you to post some specific suggestions.

What exactly do you think he should give up or change?

[avaistheone1]

111. I think there have been a number of suggestions made.

What is wrong with looking like what most of the people in this country are, nice hard-working middle class people who are tastefully dressed up for a formal occasion? It is necessary to take it to extremes? Does it have to be extremely expensive clothing, food, and entertainment? That is all.

I don't think that is so hard given what many Americans are dealing with. Just read some of the threads where many DUers discuss what is going down in their lives. These are very trying times for many people.

[NYC Liberal]

139. "tastefully dressed up for a formal occasion"

That's exactly how the Obamas were dressed. The dress was paid for by the Obamas and was made in a workshop in India. So what? This is a formal state dinner, it's not as though they are walking around every day in clothes like that. More like this:

[mrbarber]

204. The food was extremely expensive?

Last I read the meal featured many items taken from the White House Garden.

And as for entertainment-care to offer a link showing the entertainment and it's costs? And why you are at it, the food also?

[avaistheone1]

100. You are confusing criticism and hatred. That's a copout.

The criticism has has been well earned. The hatred is not earned, deserved or acceptable.

I have not seen the hate threads. I am not saying that does not happen at DU. I am not here everyday. I would not participate in that kind of thread if that were happening and I do not think the management at DU would allow hate threads to continue once they have knowledge about those kinds of threads from my experience here.

[NYC Liberal]

105. And back to the point of the thread. I already asked grasswire this.

What specific suggestions do you have for Obama in regards to "sacrifices"? What specifically should he give up or change?

[treestar]

112. the "criticism" is not constructive, and occurs every day from the same

posters who just happen to dissent about every single thing.

[avaistheone1]

122. Well of course is not constructive because every day other folks

are saying everything Obama does is right. But that is from posters who agree on every single thing he does and they certainly are correct.


:sarcasm:

[treestar]

136. Everything he does may not be right

But when everything he does is wrong, that's a bit interesting.

And of what he may have done wrong, using the WH for diplomatic hospitality and having it be fancy as it is when every other single other goddamed President was there is not one of them.

[treestar]

109. Now that's untrue

But I am curious to see how the Freeps will spin it to go against Obama. They should be supporting him on this.

[rvablue]

199. +1! Sing it! I'm sick of it, too! n/t

[thelordofhell]

69. Next thing you know.......

The President will fly around, strumming guitars and attending birthday parties while a city drowns.

:banghead: :sarcasm: :banghead:

[avaistheone1]

84. Once the war has escalated who knows

perhaps so.

[jenmito]

89. Again-Do you have proof of them "spending to the max be it on vacations, or in the White House"?

[avaistheone1]

94. You know I already posted the link.

If not review the thread.

[jenmito]

96. No-you posted a link to ONE vacation which they paid for themselves. You didn't back up

your claim.

[avaistheone1]

104. Uh the article stays that the Obamas and the taxpayers paid for the vacation.

I said it was over the top.

I did back it up. So what now?

[jenmito]

107. Uh, you did NOT back up your claim "spending to the max be it on vacations, or in the White House."

[treestar]

108. The WH is what it is

It's always going to have a certain level of glitz.

Michelle did wear a lot of regular clothes, more than any other FLOTUS. This was a special occasion.

When other countries are involved, I don't see that the majority of Americans would really want to "show off" the poverty. How would it improve the economy.

Do you have a link about that dress, because the Obamas seem to usually make some effort in the direction of American-made - didn't she pick an American designer for the ball gown? I would think it likely they make the effort to have her dresses all American-made.

[avaistheone1]

114. Show off the poverty?

Dressing like a middle class woman for a formal occasion is showing off the poverty? Oh dear.

[treestar]

123. You were the one describing the U.S. as if it were in a state of poverty

Worse than the Great Depression.

So why are you willing to settle for middle class?

This is the leader of the country; we do not expect the WH to be less than it is in any recession.

And if the dress was made in India, good for them, in this case, since it was the Indian PM visiting.

[Cha]

126. That poster doesn't want to hear any facts..

only anti-Obama screed will do, thanks.

[avaistheone1]

142. If you would share some facts

I would be happy to hear them.

[Cha]

144. Bullshit.you want to show off how anti-Obama you are.

[avaistheone1]

148. Ignore.

So foolhardy that is it not worth a response.

[Cha]

173. Then don't respond.

[avaistheone1]

140. I thought that was the American Dream

to become middle class.

I did not realize it is something to be ashamed of.

[dalaigh lllama]

160. What a load of whiny claptrap

UNrecommend.

[BklnDem75]

161. Dumbest thread ever

No other president has been so criticized for the smallest things. Why do you feel anyone should take you seriously?

[grasswire]

234. bogus

"No other president has been so criticized for the smallest things"

Were you alive in the Clinton years, pal?

[BklnDem75]

243. Do tell!

Please show me anything during the Clinton years that's dumber than this thread. Please? I really want to know.

[jakefrep]

235. I'm sure something will come along to top this tomorrow.

[BklnDem75]

244. Unfortunately, you're right.

I've been proven wrong everyday this week when I read the latest poutrage and say it can't get any dumber than this.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

162. Yes, we should treat our allies to the Grand Slam at Denny's.

:eyes:

[avaistheone1]

163. Surprise.

Another extremist.

:bounce:

[jenmito]

164. Where's the double-dip recession? Or do facts mean nothing to you? n/t

[avaistheone1]

174. The things you make me do.

The question now is do the facts me anything to you?



From Times Online November 18, 2009

Obama harbours fear of 'double-dip recession'
Alexandra Frean, US Business Correspondent

Barack Obama has warned that the US economy could head into a “double-dip recession” unless urgent steps were taken to rein back America’s mounting levels of public debt.

With the US unemployment rate now running at 10.2 per cent, the President said his administration faced a delicate balance of trying to boost the economy and spur job creation while bringing

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6922325.ece





Economist: U.S. may see double-dip recession by late 2010

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/07/06/daily1.html





Double-dip recession risk rising: El-Erian
Fri Sep 4, 2009 6:41pm EDT
By Jennifer Ablan
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. economy faces an increasing risk of stalled growth in 2010, the chief executive of top bond fund Pimco said on Friday, adding that rallies in the equity and bond markets have outpaced economic trends.
Despite signs that an economic recovery is taking shape, a soft job market and flat incomes could hinder a sustained recovery, Mohamed El-Erian, Pimco's CEO, told Reuters in an interview.
He spoke after the Labor Department reported that U.S. unemployment jumped to a 26-year high in August of 9.7 percent, although the pace of job losses slowed. Employers cut 216,000 jobs from payrolls in August, fewer than forecast, and down from a 276,000 drop in July.
"The risk of a double dip for U.S. economic growth in 2010 is increasing," with a 50 percent chance of such a scenario next year, said El-Erian, who oversees $850 billion in assets for Pacific Investment Management Co, known as Pimco.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5833WL20090904




Housing could take double dip down in 2010

Story Comments Screener (188)
By Steve Kerch, MarketWatch
SAN DIEGO (MarketWatch) -- Despite signs of stabilization at the end of 2009, next year could prove treacherous for the housing and mortgage markets as a variety of woes could rekindle the falloff of the last two years, according to mortgage-industry veterans speaking at the Mortgage Bankers Association annual convention here.

"I'm a firm prophet of the 'W' shaped recovery. Housing is going to go down again in the first quarter of 2010," said Steve Horne, CEO of Wingspan Portfolio Advisors, a firm that facilitates loan modifications. "The real healing won't begin until all these nonperforming loans start trading in earnest, until we get these borrowers back on their feet

David Lowman, CEO of Chase Home Lending, also thinks the mortgage market could run into trouble early next year, especially if the Federal Reserve ends its purchases of mortgage-backed securities, a strategy that has artificially supported liquidity and kept mortgage rates at historic lows.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/housing-could-take-double-dip-down-in-2010-2009-10-13



US credit shrinks at Great Depression rate prompting fears of double-dip recession
Both bank credit and the M3 money supply in the United States have been contracting at rates comparable to the onset of the Great Depression since early summer, raising fears of a double-dip recession in 2010 and a slide into debt-deflation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html





US economy: revised GDP numbers raise specter of a relapse
New GDP figures released Tuesday suggest that the US economy is growing more slowly than initially thought. Obama warns that loss of confidence could lead to a 'double-dip' recession.

By Mark Trumbull | Staff writer/ November 24, 2009 edition
Print this Buzz up!Email and shareRepublish Get e-mail alerts RSS
The US economy grew at a 2.8 percent annual pace in this year’s third quarter, slower than initially estimated, the Commerce Department reported Tuesday. This adds to concerns about the pace of recovery, with some forecasters warning that the economy could relapse into recession next year.

President Obama raised this “double-dip” scenario in comments on the economy last week. He talked of the need for federal efforts to spur job creation, but added that “if we keep on adding to the debt … people could lose confidence in the US economy in a way that could actually lead to a double-dip recession.”

Most forecasters predict that the economic recovery will continue next year, but at too tepid a pace to generate significant job gains. And they say that a double-dip is possible, though not necessarily for the reason Mr. Obama cited.


http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/24/us-economy-revised-gdp-numbers-raise-specter-of-a-relapse/




George Soros Expects a Double Dip Recession To Follow 2010 or 2011
Oct 30, 2009 ... George Soros says he expects a double dip recession to follow 2010 or 2011
http://www.benzinga.com/economics/32970/george-soros-expects-a-double-dip-recession-to-follow-2010-or-2011

[jenmito]

228. "Two wars and a double dip recession..." We are NOT in a double dip recession.

Preventing one and being in one are two VERY different things.

[avaistheone1]

205. Jenmito I thoughts the facts meant something to you.

Jenmito you never responded to my post.

[jenmito]

231. I just came back to the computer and responded to your post. How many of mine haven't you

responded to?!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

165. Unlike you, who assumed, without proof, that child labor was involved in making Michelle's dress.

Face it, you'll hate anything Obama does.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=16846&mesg_id=16993

[avaistheone1]

166. Wrong. I never did assume it.

I asked the question.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

167. You asked it apropos of nothing.

It's just another half-assed attempt to attack Obama for anything.

[avaistheone1]

179. When the designer responds that 40 people worked on it and the

dress was made in India. I think it is damn apropos to ask if it was made with child labor.
India thinks nothing of child slave labor. They think it is good free trade.


:grr:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

182. Now you're just grasping at strawmen.

Why don't you go ahead and ask if the work was outsourced? :eyes:

[avaistheone1]

184. India never uses child labor and

bears no longer poop in the woods.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

187. I didn't realize every single product from India is the result of child labor.

:eyes:

[avaistheone1]

190. Think about it. 40 people worked on the dress. How could that dress be affordable

to anyone but the wealthiest unless it was made with child labor? Otherwise the dress had an unspeakable price tag even in the U.S.?

Given India's history I would speculate the former.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

193. Yeah, you got me.

I'm sure the designer -- knowing full well the First Lady would wear this dress, with the resultant press coverage -- used child labor, knowing it's illegal in this country, for a function meant to improve US-India ties.

You should rename yourself Encyclopedia Clown.

[avaistheone1]

206. Surely.

After you name yourself Major General Clown.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

207. Secondhand insults from a third-rate poster.

You can only go up from here.

[avaistheone1]

213. Evidently

you seem to be obsessed with me so you must like third-rate posters. Perhaps we are so much alike. Otherwise you could just ignore me.

:smoke:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

218. No, you were the one who responded to me in the first place.

I assumed you'd be receptive to logic, but that clearly wasn't the case. Have a nice day.

[avaistheone1]

221. Yes and you kept responding to me from there on.

It appears I am no more receptive to your logic, than you are to my own.

But I do truly wish you a good day too.

[Cha]

168. Yeah, it's a Stupid ass question. "child labor?"

Bet it was fucking disappointed.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

170. They're just getting more pathetic.

And I'm talking about hate-filled posters like this, not those who legitimately criticize Obama's policies.

Unfortunately, that's all lost in the mindless "Cheerleader!" taunts.

[vaberella]

266. But that's too rich. There's the dollar menu at Mickey D's. n/t

[Kitsune]

172. I tend to think that less glitz is a good thing at any time.

But, as my thread in GD last night illustrated, I am kind of a weird person. I don't understand how glitz and glamor assist in any material fashion with diplomacy. Any of this could just as easily be talked over at a very informal barbecue or over fondue. Fondue is nice. It's a group activity.

Most of all, formal occasions come off as extremely fake to me. It feels like everyone is constantly lying about themselves to everyone because it's the 'classy' thing to do.

[Honeycombe8]

176. I like a little glitz now and then. It does us all good, IMO. Michelle in her WOW dress.

Obama in a bow tie. Me at our company dinner...the one day a year I get to wear a sweater with some bling in it.

It lifts the spirit, brightens the mood. And it doesn't have to cost as much as in "bubble" years (I'm betting it didn't).

It helps with diplomacy to roll out the red carpet.

As with most things, it's a matter of degree: how much it cost, compared with other years, and how often it's done.

I don't expect our leaders to throw out their suits and don potato sacks, when unemployment is high, any more than I expect them to throw out their moderately priced suits and don $10K custom made silk suits, when times are great.

[Cha]

180. ".State dinner for India a green affair"

<snip>

"In a green affair featuring locally grown food and held on the White House lawn, U.S President Barack Obama welcomed Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to his first official state dinner Tuesday night.

The black-tie gala was seen as an important gesture of co-operation between the two countries.

It was held under a tent on the South Lawn of the White House, in keeping with a theme of “the Obamas' dedication to green and sustainable elements,” according to an official White House summary.

The food included vegetables grown in the White House garden; a meatless entree to satisfy Mr. Singh, a vegetarian; and gift bags that included a jar of honey from White House beehives. Locally grown magnolias lined the dinner tent.

WHY INDIA?

In welcoming the crowd to his first state dinner as President, Mr. Obama praised the relationship between India and the United States, the world's two largest democracies."

<more>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-obamas-st...

[avaistheone1]

183. Looks like a lot of green was spent on that one.

Sorry I just could not help myself.

[Cha]

185. I realize you don't care about what kind of green the Obamas are

promoting. That's too positive for you.

[avaistheone1]

186. You made that one too easy.

[Cha]

189. I didn't make it ..the Obamas had a green state dinner and

all you can do is ridicule and imitate a badger.

[avaistheone1]

194. I made a little joke about "green".

You have been ridiculing, attempting to intimidate and badger me for a number of threads,
but I have brushed it off.

So it is not very sporting of you to make a fuss about my green joke. Actually for the record I appreciate the nod to being "green" by the White House.

[mrbarber]

211. Oh, was that suppose to be a joke?

Considering how irrational you've been this entire thread, it was hard to tell.

[freddie mertz]

264. I laughed at it.

You left a target a mile wide. He/she took the shot.

You should be able to laugh at yourself in a case like that.

Cause it was funny.

[jefferson_dem]

210. You've proven yourself to be nothing but a snarky, substance-less asshole this thread.

Seems you're only goal here is to stir up shit. I'm not accusing you of being a troll ONLY because that's against the rules.

Whatever, you will now be the lone member of my ignore list.

[jberryhill]

191. Damn That FDR....

[avaistheone1]

202. What 's wrong with him?

He looks fine to me.

FDR and Eleanor look lovely. They don't look like they are trying to be royalty either.

Lovely pic. Never seen it before.

Thanks for sharing it.

[jberryhill]

240. State Dinners Are Ostentatious - Even During War Or A Troubled Economy

When the United States of America welcomes you to dinner, it is not going to be a Denny's Grand Slam.

[karynnj]

192. The question is who paid for it - if it was the Obamas, not the government - there's no problem

Otherwise, how much show Michelle Obama, a millionaire be allowed to spend on a dress.

[vaberella]

267. It has been said and Michelle has said-- she pays for her things herself.

Remember when they bought the play set for their daughters----out of the pocket of their own bank account not thecountry. They also didn't redecorate---when it's aprivilege to them, because of the expense.

[CBR]

196. Oh Jesus.... get a grip. Everything is a contraversy. nt

[ClarkUSA]

198. WTF? Michelle Obama paid for that dress out of her own pocket. Why are you harping on it?

Unlike former Republican AND Democratic presidents, the Obamas have turned down taxpayer monies to redecorate their private
space and spent $100K of their own money. They also declined taxpayer monies to redecorate the public space and left Laura
Bush's Barney-stained carpet in the Oval Office.

"Perception is everything"? Who are you kidding? As if "those who can't sleep at night and fear the future" give a envious shit
about Michelle's dress or the President's first state dinner's table settings? Even the teabagger Republicans who harassed the
President about his date with Michelle in New York could care less.

Why do you and others here whining about it? As if I had to ask.... :eyes:

[Doremus]

200. Oh please. You don't remember how people mocked the Carters do you?

They were hicks, embarrassingly backwards in their entertaining.

Thank God St. Ronnie arrived and "fixed" that! :sarcasm:


Obama is damned if he does and equally damned if he doesn't.

I say given that the outcome would have been the same either way he went, let him have some fun. The man certainly deserves it. And the nation deserved an albeit brief respite from the status quo doom and gloom.

[ClarkUSA]

203. Would you like dessert with that whine?

:rofl:

[Arkana]

208. It's a fucking state dinner.

You dress to impress.

[Romulox]

209. Some people have an almost instinctual desire to be ruled by a potentate...

[mrbarber]

214. Oh yeah, that dinner on the lawn featuring locally grown vegetables just screams weath and decadence

I'm surprised Obama didn't tell us all to eat cake.

[Romulox]

216. Get some perspective on how ordinary people live if you get the chance.

:hi:

[mrbarber]

219. Stop ASSuming you know anything about me.

Okay bucko?

[Romulox]

222. I have absolutely no interest in you. nt

[mrbarber]

223. And yet that doesn't stop you from having a condscending tone towards my post.

How nice of you to grace us mere mortals with your omnipotent brain.

[Better Believe It]

224. That didn't but so-called "state dinners" do. You don't understand the difference?

[HughMoran]

212. Just the oppositie is true

There are times when everything looks down when it is good to celebrate life in the most extravagant way possible. We're not broke as a nation and we will recover. Not emphasizing the negative is an important part of recovery - enjoy it.

[Hello_Kitty]

215. Duly noted and unrec'd.

And just how, pray tell, should they receive the head of state of another country? BBQ served on styrofoam plates?

[freddie mertz]

227. I was troubled by the images myself... it's a bit like

The Roman empire in its declining days--at least, a bit like the FILMS about that decline.

Also reminded me of the Ron and Nancy show in the early 80s.

The PM of India was visiting, and that is an important country.

I get it.

But India is also a country that suffers from hideous poverty and injustice.

I would have preferred a bit less glitz in the context of these sobering times.

[Cha]

242. Oh, I just bet you were troubled by something

good that the Obamas were doing.

Wow, they actually had on evening clothes to welcome the PM of India at a state dinner that was a green affair.

<snip>

"State dinner for India a green affair"

In a green affair featuring locally grown food and held on the White House lawn, U.S President Barack Obama welcomed Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to his first official state dinner Tuesday night.

The black-tie gala was seen as an important gesture of co-operation between the two countries.

It was held under a tent on the South Lawn of the White House, in keeping with a theme of “the Obamas' dedication to green and sustainable elements,” according to an official White House summary.

The food included vegetables grown in the White House garden; a meatless entree to satisfy Mr. Singh, a vegetarian; and gift bags that included a jar of honey from White House beehives. Locally grown magnolias lined the dinner tent.

WHY INDIA?

In welcoming the crowd to his first state dinner as President, Mr. Obama praised the relationship between India and the United States, the world's two largest democracies.

<more>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-obamas-state-dinner-for-india-a-green-affair/article1376477/

[freddie mertz]

255. You see conspiracy and hidden motives everywhere

Because that is how you guys seem to operate.

If you read my post, I acknowledged the importance of the event.

I'm in the middle on this.

No room for ambiguity or mixed feeling with you guys though.

It's rah rah rah or you must be a "hater."

[Cha]

257. Conspiracy? What conspiracy?

No one's talking about that but you.

Don't be so paranoid.

[freddie mertz]

259. "Who me?" You never accept any statement that is remotely critical

As an honest one.

It has to be "Oh I'll bet it bothered you" or some such...

You see hidden, broader motives everywhere.

But they do not exist.

[ClarkUSA]

260. Uh huh. Sure.

:nopity:

[freddie mertz]

262. This from the king of them all.

[ClarkUSA]

261. "troubled" = "very concerned"

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

263. For someone like yourself, discussion on the merits of a case in never possible.

There is always presumed to be a personalized, political motive, like your "did you ever complain under Clinton" accusation that failed so miserably to work to your advantage in the land mines thread.

I suspect this is because you, yourself, are motivated by these sorts of micro-partisan concerns.

You seem in many cases to be fighting a 2008 primary battles that is no longer relevant.

You need a new paradigm, my friend.

[Arkana]

269. You're kidding me, right? Whaling on the Obamas for throwing a lavish

state dinner to entertain important foreign allies?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

[butterfly77]

229. What's wrong..

are they looking too good. I guess they should have cancelled the State Dinner..

[Zynx]

230. Double dip recession? Has this just become a commonly accepted fact?

[thelordofhell]

232. We are currently ending one of the wars and the recessions are over according to economists

And this is a state dinner that would happen regardless of who was in the White House. So really, your headline should read.......

"One war and double digit unemployment should dictate less glitz"

But then again, this would ruin the Debbie Downer attitude that has been going through DU with President Obama not being the second coming of FDR and/or not solving every problem in the United States in one year.

And by the way, if the President and the First Lady can't have these types of nights......who can? I'd rather see this than some obscenely rich prick hosting a private party that no one can get into and nobody would be allowed to cover so the country can remain reletively ignorant at how well the %2 have been doing while this country has been going through a rough patch.

[Cha]

258. None of that matters to the

inveterate whiners.

[jakefrep]

233. Maybe they're out of sackcloth and ashes.

Get over it.

[Sannum]

241. Yes. Michelle should have worn something from Salvation Army.

:eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

246. excellent points grasswire

When Harald V of Norway makes his bi-annual visit to my house, I feel it is important to set the right tone for these economic times, so I answer the door in my sweatpants, crocs and ratty t-shirt that says "Bust a Nut" (illustrated by two squirrels in mating mode)...I don't want to go all out for the meal, so I tell King Harald and his entourage to grab some leftovers out of the fridge...

Since Harald is a foreigner, I admit I must splurge a little in showing him some All-American cultural wealth -- So we watch the NFL Network during our meeting...

[Arkana]

270. When Chinese Premier Hu Jintao visits me, I make sure to answer the door

in my workout pants and Randy Moss football jersey. Also, I'm sure to have woken up from a nap, so I'll be yawning and scratching myself. I won't shower, because that would just be putting on an air that isn't "me".

When the Premier asks me where the bathroom is, I'll just point him to a hole I dug in the yard and tell him to watch out for the dang squirrels.

[Cha]

271. ..

:D

[KoKo]

247. OMG...I can imagine the abuse you will take for this post...

so I'm not reading the replies... But, I will say that as much as I've loved everything about Michelle in the early days of the Administration (Her buying clothes from J. Crew and Talbots and whatever) that showed her concern for ordinary Americans and also helped American stores (even though all comes from China or other parts these days) Most First Ladies have picked designers and not bought clothes "off the rack" so I thought her gestures were incredibly thoughtful. But, there is something going awry lately with her.

I realize this was the first State Dinner...and given all the gloom and doom in the country, maybe the Obama's just wanted to cut back and have some fun. The gown was lovely ...but she outshown everyone including the guest of honor and his wife. I worry that Michelle is letting the Jackie Kennedy thing go to her head or she has bad advisers. It was OTT...something that a celebrity would wear to the Academy Awards and inappropriate given her guest of honor and the mood and tone of the country which is reeling from so much loss.

I hate to criticize her. I think her heart was in the right place when she came in as First Lady with so much ambition and being so close to the people with her Organic Garden, her outreach to kids and community efforts along with her efforts to dress as "one of us."

Something is changing, though. For her not to be concerned about the age and possible clothing of the wife of the guest of honor showed a lack of tact or graciousness that doesn't seem to fit what I saw of her before. She and Obama are not King and Queen. To be a gracious hostess one must have some sense of the guests of honor. This seemed to be all about "Her."

Much as some of us here gasped over what Laura Bush wore ...I have to say Michelle disappointed in her choice of clothing...as lovely as she looked.

[boppers]

248. 40 jobs, for three weeks, to make a work of art... they should do this *more* often.

People need jobs, and the world needs art. The recession won't be fixed by everybody reining in spending, quite to the contrary, actually, so if Michelle's wardrobe can generate that many jobs, heck, she should wear a different high-end dress every breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

[Tarheel_Dem]

254. I don't have to live in the ghetto to care about the plight. Likewise, the First Lady...

doesn't have to dress from the Goodwill to make you feel better about your shit life. The president and his wife were quite successful even before arriving in DC. I think you were one of the assholes who complained about the J. Crew outfit she wore on Leno. I suspect that no sacrifice would ever be good enough.

[LanternWaste]

265. What should the precise and relevant

What should the precise and relevant monetary value of a state dinner come to? On that objective criteria is that answer based on?

What should the dress code be, and on what objective standard is that also based on? What should the upper value limit be a suit of clothes worn to a state dinner? What should the menu be, and how much should it cost?




Or is the final analysis based on little more than a "I'll know it when I'm not offended by it" gut feeling...?

[vaberella]

268. You have left me speechless. Obama hate just goe OTT when I see this post. n/t

[Aramchek]

272. this is your perception, and it is definitely not everything

much closer to nothing.

[KakistocracyHater]

273. I remember Bush's 16 "balls", shutting out amputee Veterans,

.