Dennis Kucinich may vote for Pelosi's reconciliation scheme after all!

[IndianaGreen]

According to tonight's ABC News report by Jake Tapper, when asked if he was still going to vote "No", Dennis gave a "no comment."

Pelosi's scheme is one in which no House member would have to vote for the Senate HCR, instead they will vote for the reconciliation bill. A vote for reconciliation would be considered as having passed the Senate HCR as well.

On edit:

Here is the story that I saw on TV now posted on the ABC News website:

Kucinich, who flew on Air Force One to Cleveland with Obama, earlier told reporters that he would not comment on his current position on the health care bill.

"I'm looking forward to hearing what he (Obama) has to say," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/HealthCare/health-care-reform-obama-makes-final-push-im/story?id=10105176&page=3

On second edit:

Here is Pelosi's scheme, according to Ezra Klein:

Here's how that will work: Rather than passing the Senate bill and then passing the fixes, the House will pass the fixes under a rule that says the House "deems" the Senate bill passed after the House passes the fixes.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/nancy_pelosis_strategy_for_pas.html?hpid=topnews

[Oregone]

1. I hope not

That would really screw up our communal 2 minutes of hate

[IndianaGreen]

3. No kumbayas?

:-(

[BunkerHill24]

9. LOL...well put. n\t

[damonm]

2. Dennis Kucinich under the bus in 5...4...3...

[IndianaGreen]

4. No one would be voting for the controversial Senate HCR, under Pelosi's scheme

This would be a tricky way to pass two bills without having to vote for the Senate's crappy bill.

[elocs]

28. Didn't I hear this same tune sung in another thread?

:shrug: There must be another song to sing.

[still_one]

5. The only way I can see that happening is if they assured him wit an almost iron clad

gurantee, that they would immediately put a public option or medicare for all on the fast track after the bill passes

[IndianaGreen]

6. This is the time to make promises

Promises that will be broken down the road. I am not buying any promises from this crowd, but then, I am not the one in Congress.

[still_one]

7. I wouldn't trust them either, I was just speculating if the story has any credibility /nt

[IndianaGreen]

10. I just updated OP with a link to ABC News, to Jake Tapper's story

check it out.

[still_one]

62. Very interesting, thanks for the update /nt

[damonm]

12. Grayson (God Love 'im) has already intro'd a Medicare buy-in, no?

[IndianaGreen]

18. Yes, but Pelosi won't allow any amendments to the reconciliation

and neither is Reid in the Senate. They don't want a public option!

[damonm]

25. True, but hasn't Grayson intro'd it as a stand-alone bill?

[IndianaGreen]

27. A stand-alone bill is a horse of a different colour

All I know is that on the reconciliation bill, no amendments will be allowed.

[damonm]

31. HR 4789 - just checked it. Way 2 Go, Mr. G!

[suzie]

60. Nelson and Landrieu were trashed around here for the deals they made for

their constituents in exchange for their votes on healthcare.

And yet, people want to believe that Dennis Kucinich, who votes with Republicans all the time, didn't just bargain for his Congressional District?

There is no record to indicate that Dennis Kucinich has ever bargained for anything that benefited the people of the United States.

Unbelievable.

[4lbs]

61. You mean like the ones Grayson and Sanders are working on?

.

[jefferson_dem]

8. Hopefully, he's coming to his senses...

And will do the right thing.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Obama is the one that needs to come to his senses

Admit it, he sold us out on single payer and the public option.

[vaberella]

43. If Kucinich is on board, then everyone sold us out by your input. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

45. hey, you are missing Harold Ford on TV

[vaberella]

47. I don't have one. Too poor. n/t

[Zomby Woof]

58. Bullshit

Obama NEVER campaigned for single payer during his entire run for office. One cannot sell out if they never promised it in the first place.

These Kucinich/Obama wars have brought out some major douchebaggery on both sides.

[jefferson_dem]

11. "reconciliation scheme"?

:wtf:

[IndianaGreen]

15. There is no direct vote on the Senate HCR

A vote for the reconciliation package, would have "deemed" to have passed the Senate HCR as well.

Personally I think that is unconstitutional, but then, so is DOMA and PATRIOT.

[jefferson_dem]

17. If it was a direct quote, then at least you would have an excuse.

What a messed up talking point. "Scheme"? Seriously. Will you start talking about "jamming" and "ramming" it down our throats next?

[IndianaGreen]

20. Would you prefer trickery of the rules? They are making a special rule just for reconciliation!

I call that a scheme, and if you don't like it, tough shit!

[Raine1967]

14. "Pelosi's Scheme" -- spin much?

Interesting -- I would suggest that is a personal opinion, which is perfectly acceptable. Many here on DU have been watching things change on an hourly basis.

I may be projecting here, but since Jake Tapper seems to be suggesting that things could be changing... (he was there today, on AF1 with both Dennis and Obama) and I personally still think it is a slim chance -- So I ask -- without using the term *Scheme* -- what will people who have been staunch Kucinich supporters do if he decides to vote yes?

[IndianaGreen]

16. It is a scheme, and it may not even be constitutional

According to published reports, one of them posted in DU, Speaker Pelosi is planning to present a reconciliation health care bill in which the House, by voting for it, would consider as having passed the bill the Senate passed.

Not voting on the actual Senate bill may raise a Constitutional question. The Constitution explicitly states in Article I Section 7, that "every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States." Voting for a reconciliation bill without having a vote on the bill the Senate passed, and then claiming that the vote for the former is a vote for the latter, should raise all sorts of red flags. Would the Democrats go along with Pelosi's scheme if a future House were to use the same tactic to pass a bill that all Democrats hated?

It was my understanding that the House parliamentarian had ruled that the House must pass the Senate bill, and the President sign it, before the House can vote on a bill using reconciliation. What happened to that?

[Raine1967]

30. The parliamentarian said the GOP misrepresented what he said.

Do you believe everything the GOP says without any sources? They also said that nothing was on record, nor was it even written down.


The GOP Lied, and you are willing to perpetuate a GOP story -- from last week.

[lamp_shade]

19. Oh my... exploding heads around here. I'll be back later.

[IndianaGreen]

26. I don't expect to see any exploding heads

of any sort.

[Change Happens]

21. Someone just said that on Fox News.....nt

[ChicagoSuz219]

22. Just wondering...

...what will Dennis' staunchest supporters do IF he votes YES?

[IndianaGreen]

24. Unlike the ideological purist of the DLC, we support the totality of Dennis Kucinich

The meme of 100% purity is a conservaDem slime, since they are the ones that never compromise.

[Ikonoklast]

33. Hahaahahaaaaa!!

God, you're so precious.

Dennis is going to get bought off with goodies (earmarks) promised to his district.

Politics at its finest, and he'll play along just like any other pol.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Dennis stated his position this past Sunday, but it was not ironclad

Absent a strong public option or legal protection for states that wish to pursue single payer the bill that the president is proposing is a step in the wrong direction. Even with the few modest improvements in the bill, the insurance companies will still have dozens of loopholes to deny care and continue to find ways to leave Americans with the unpayable bill.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/03/latest_health_care_reform_bill.html

Anytime I see "or" on a statement, I consider the door to be ajar, not shut.

[ChicagoSuz219]

37. They seem to be stepping back now. Interesting... n/t

[Ikonoklast]

42. Dennis is using his "Double Secret Political Principles".

He never compromises, you know.



Until he does.





They're gonna need a bigger bus.

[ChicagoSuz219]

48. Oh, boy... you're in trouble now... LOL n/t

[IndianaGreen]

23. Here is the scheme Pelosi is going to use, according to Ezra Klein

Here's how that will work: Rather than passing the Senate bill and then passing the fixes, the House will pass the fixes under a rule that says the House "deems" the Senate bill passed after the House passes the fixes.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/nancy_pelosis_strategy_for_pas.html?hpid=topnews

[Hansel]

38. Sounds like a plan to me.

[IndianaGreen]

44. It is a way of not voting for the Senate HCR, yet allowing it to pass

Clever, but it is just that, clever. Constitutional? I haven't got a clue.

[elocs]

29. I love Kucinich threads. It's like watching women's 'rasling,

only not quite as entertaining. :bounce:

[FrenchieCat]

32. I won't hold my breath.....

as that could only kill me.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Are there provisions for states having single payer? Can they do that in an exchange?

[FrenchieCat]

39. According to this......

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818060/-This-HCR-Bill:-45,000,000-Get-Single-Payer-Vermont-Health-Care

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x80261

[IndianaGreen]

41. I was referring to this statement

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x223709#223889

and if there was the possibility that states would be allowed single payer. Bernie Sanders comes close, but not close enough.

[bigwillq]

36. I guess you changed your mind too.

It can happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x222249#222283

:)

[FrenchieCat]

40. I was about to hide the thread.......

but thought I'd put in my 2 cents first.

[bigwillq]

46. That's what you did in this thread too, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=223760&mesg_id=223853

:)

[FrenchieCat]

52. Yep. Sometimes I respond prior to hiding threads.

Ok...so now you can get off my ass?

[Bluenorthwest]

57. So not discussing, just snarking and running

Explains so much.

[bigwillq]

59. Oh, so this is only ok if you do it, huh?

Gotcha. Now I know.
I learned to search and copy and paste by watching you. :rofl: (cue that drug commerical)

But I must tell you, my search-copy-and-paste-to-prove-a-point-on-a-message-board skills are not as good as yours. I do recall you making a post stating that you weren't going to respond to any more DK threads at all, but I couldn't find it.

But it's ok. We're free to change our minds. As DK may. But I know, I know. Don't hold my breath. :)

[Jennicut]

49. It still hinges on what Alan Frumin, the Parliamentarian, will decide.

Now Biden can overrule him in the Senate, put what pertains to the House I do not know. Also, DK voted against the House bill the first time. Why would he vote for something that did not even have a public option in it? He would need to get a provision in there regarding states being able to start their own single payer. Pelosi could lose other votes because of that. It is like walking a freakin tightrope.

[IndianaGreen]

50. He won't be voting for the Senate HCR. No one is!

They are voting for the reconciliation bill, which we have yet to see. A vote for the reconciliation bill would have "deemed" to have also pass the Senate bill.

[Jennicut]

51. Does Frumin make the decision that it has "deemed" to pass in the Senate?

This is per Rep. Van Hollen's Memo to other House members:

The Speaker has publicly committed to trying to get a vote on both the reconciliation bill and the Senate bill on the same day. They are still trying to work out the final process on this and much of what we do depends on what the Senate Parliamentarian decides. You may be receiving calls about the “Slaughter Rule” and other rumors about what the process will be. Again, please understand: no decision has yet been made on the process for consideration on the House floor.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/13/health-care-the-talking-points/?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0iIGctAMr


It does not really make it clear, does it?

[IndianaGreen]

53. I do know that it will be a very hard sell to the electorate

If the elections were next year, voters might have a chance to see how things worked out. This November is too soon! There will be hell to pay.

[Jennicut]

56. I am of the firm belief that the economy is the #1 issue.

All the other stuff is background. The conservadems may lose but what have they ever done?

[Canuckistanian]

54. That's a lot to be divined from a "no comment"

When he had previously been quoted as saying it's "A firm no"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x223042

[denimgirly]

55. Nice to see DK getting some attention -- O must be getting a good talk on PO and SP...

He obviously wont take them but at least the seed is planted that real reform can only happen via PO and SP....That in itself is worth passing this less than effective bill since at least DK was listened to for once. Thanks DK for fighting even if it stands no chance of being in the final bill.

[joe black]

63. Pelosi

I never trusted her after the impeachment is off the table thingy. If this bill is soooooooo good why all the trickery.

[harun]

64. That part about "deeming" had McConnell going nuclear on CSPAN.

It would allow the House to not actually vote to approve the Senate version, just "deem" it passed once the fixes are voted on. That gives the House cover when campaigning because they can say they never voted to approve it.

Crazy stuff.

Congress is not manning up on this. Just like they didn't man up on going to war in Iraq, they passed the buck to the President. Weak.