I hope Obama has the chance to confront the accusations

[randr]

that his response is too slow.
And I hope he answers that it is hard to respond and proceed when facts are dismissed and people are lying. This is a metaphor for most of what he has been working on in general.
BP and the rest are more than contemptible for their neglect of any safety precautions but they are criminal in hiding the scale of the problem from the start.

[sandnsea]

1. It was too slow, he should admit it

and move on. He's got to stop believing these corporations tell the truth. I hope he's got it in his bones now.

[babylonsister]

2. Here's a timeline. Tell me what's too slow about this reaction, thanks.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004300053

April 20 (10 p.m.): Oil rig explosion. An April 21 ABCNews.com article reported, "An overnight explosion in the Gulf of Mexico rocked the Deepwater Horizon oil rig off the Louisiana coast, sending spectacular bursts of flame into the sky. The fires were still raging today." The U.S. Coast Guard's National Oil and Hazardous Substances Response System assigns primary responsibility for cleaning up oil spills to the spiller as the responsible party.

April 21: Deputy Secretary of Interior, Coast Guard dispatched to region. An April 22 White House statement noted that following a briefing with President Obama, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Thad Allen, Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, EPA Deputy Administrator Bob Perciasepe, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, "Deputy Secretary of the Interior David Hayes was dispatched to the region yesterday to assist with coordination and response." The Coast Guard announced that four units were responding to the fire, with additional units en route.

more...

[sandnsea]

8. His personal response

that elevates it to a national emergency and gets everybody responding to the region, the way we have now. I just think if he had a direct liason, they wouldn't have been able to hide the truth about the severity of the leak for so long. And I think if he didn't trust these corporations so much, he'd put those liaisons in place a lot quicker. I truly hope he's got it now. It could dramatically change the course of his Presidency and the country, for the better. That would be awesome.

[babylonsister]

17. So it's been proven BP hid the truth from Obama and the country

about the severity of this leak, or did it get more severe and the situation more dire as time went on? I'm just trying to understand what your complaint is about.

[sandnsea]

20. Oh okay, BP told the truth

Come on. This is a nothing little complaint. We should have had an incident commander immediately. That's the way it's done. He believed BP and he shouldn't have. I don't know why that is so hard to admit.

[babylonsister]

23. And why is it so tough for you to agree that it started out in one state

and escalated? That sure sounds like what happened to me. There are spills all the time from what I've heard and most don't turn out like this.

[sandnsea]

25. And they hid the escalation

Why is it so hard for you to admit that? They lied. They always lie. It got worse a lot faster than they admitted.

It's a little harder to lie to the President than to some local reporter, if they've even been talking to them. Has there been much more than one paragraph press releases from BP?

He hasn't been hard enough on corporations. I hope he gets all agencies to step it up after the mine explosion and now this.

[babylonsister]

31. I asked you if they hid it in #17 and you didn't answer.

According to the timeline, the fact that they lied didn't see the light of day until April 28:

April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe. An April 28 New York Times article reported, "Government officials said late Wednesday night that oil might be leaking from a well in the Gulf of Mexico at a rate five times that suggested by initial estimates."

I think you're being unnecessarily critical of the response, but that's me. Should this admin be more suspect of corporations, sure, especially after now knowing they've been lied to.

As for the agencies, this is from last night-sounds like they're on top of things, IMO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x284449

snip//

The administration and its National Response Team, "an organization of 16 federal departments and agencies responsible for coordinating emergency preparedness and response to oil and hazardous substance pollution incidents," have been coordinating with British Petroleum (BP), the owner of a rig which exploded in April, leading to the oil spill.

[sandnsea]

35. So you have the info that they lied

And yet you're still questioning my position that they lied??

I don't get it. All I'm saying is I hope between all these incidents that he's learned that corporations can't be trusted, at all. I think if he had believed that, he would have been personally involved sooner, and they wouldn't have been able to get away with those lies. That's all.

Why is that so terrible?

[babylonsister]

44. I just read down on the timeline and saw the date they were called out

for their lies, so it's not about questioning you; I asked you what the story was.

And yes, while Obama just stated at the press conference they've been ready and reacting from the get-go, I imagine he might be skeptical about any info BP gives him/them considering their proven mendacity.

I still have faith in them; he deals with a lot of corps., has been lied to a lot (think health care), so I have to believe he knows what he's doing.

[rzemanfl]

3. What Obama was handed was a like a call from an old girlfriend

where she says "I missed my period" when what she really should have said was "my water broke."

[Kdillard]

4. Tell me about it. I don't know how the response could have been any better?

[sandnsea]

5. If she was a known liar

and that's why she was an old girlfriend, then he should have factored that in and said, hmmmm....

That's all I'm saying. These corporations lie, lie, lie. He put too much trust in them, and now we've got dead in WV and a disaster in the Gulf. It's not his fault, but I hope he's learned he's got to stop believing anything they say. That's all I'm saying.

[babylonsister]

6. Crude but effective.

:rofl: Oy.

[pnorman]

47. "....where she says "I missed my period" when what she really should have said was "my water broke."

With your kind permission, I'll "borrow" that expression!

Otherwise, I have no problem with Obama's response.

[rzemanfl]

49. Feel free. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. S&S, you should come back and explain. Most of us have seen the timeline

and agree that the administration was on top of it. Don't know what you & others were expecting?

[sandnsea]

9. I did, see above n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. I thought your complaint was that the administration didn't respond

soon enough to this particular disaster. Afterall, that's what the o.p. was addressing. Am I right? I still don't see what your later response has to do with the o.p. The o.p. wasn't about whether the president believed corporations, it was about how quickly the administration got into gear after the disaster happened. So I still don't see that the president has to admit anything, "and move on", as you say.

[sandnsea]

14. I responded to the OP

The word administration isn't in there.

[Tarheel_Dem]

15. So your complaint is about Obama personally. OIC.

It's not like he doesn't have other things on his plate. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

18. Let's see. Banks, PhRMA, Toyota, GM, Massey, BP

I love the guy, but I sincerely hope he's figured out that they're all a bunch of liars by now. You can't trust a damn word any of them say, not ever.

And the only thing on his plate that is bigger than this oil disaster is Afghanistan.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. BP made the mess. Let them take care of it. As the president

isn't a deep sea diver, I hardly see what his tying up, God knows how many resources, just so people like you will think he's finally doing something, is just ludicrous. They have been on this from the outset. And since you're not the president, I hardly think it necessary for him to take direction from you as to his priorities.

[sandnsea]

24. Our resources have been tied up since day one

They will continue to be tied up because BP can't fix this problem by themselves. That's the entire point of what I said. He did dispatch the proper agencies, but he also gave way too much credit to BP for honesty and integrity. They would have thought twice about trying to downplay this disaster if he had been personally invovled. That's all.

BP should have to pay for it, but to say just let them take care of it is stupid.

Since he's in the Gulf right now, I guess he thinks this is a priority. So glad he isn't taking directions from you.

[phleshdef]

28. Again, how would have being quicker to doubt BP changed any outcomes here?

I've yet to hear one credible voice explain how that would have made a difference.

[sandnsea]

32. If BP is doing just fine, let them keep doing it n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. Perhaps we should start a petition to have the WH contact S&S

before making any major decisions? You seem to have all the answers, or at least you seem to think so. Forgive me if I trust this president's judgement over yours. I've seen his in action, YOURS.....not so much.

[sandnsea]

36. Like I said, he's in the Gulf,

so I guess my judgment is pretty good.

Your post, not so much.

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. Is it your contention that the president wouldn't have gone anyway?

What a buffoon.:eyes:

[sandnsea]

40. What??

That makes no damn sense at all. Wouldn't have gone anyway what? If it was a minor leak that didn't cause any damage? Why would he go??

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. That's what I thought of your inital response. So I guess we're even?

[phleshdef]

12. But I bet you can't name one finite thing he could have done that would have made a difference.

[sandnsea]

13. Not believed the BP bullshit

That's what he could have done. Brought in skeptics to tell him the truth of a worst case scenario, and prepared a strategy accordingly.

Regardless, my point remains. He didn't get hands on fast enough because he has had the tendency to believe corporations generally tell the truth and want to be good "corporate citizens". Well he's been wrong about that and I hope he gets it now. We'll all be better off for it.

[phleshdef]

16. Like I said, not one finite thing that would have made a difference.

No point remains because no actual point was made. Basically, your criticism amounts to nothing more than saying that the President should have been giving more lip service to the incident earlier on and should have been up in BPs shit without giving it a second thought. But that would have changed nothing. Until someone can show me where the administration could have actually taken REAL ACTIONS that weren't taken that would have made any difference in the result of this whole thing, then these criticisms are nothing more than hollow, empty negativity... also known as pointless bitching.

[sandnsea]

19. We now have an incident commander

So we'll see if they come up with better solutions now that there are more entities involved. You can't know that until they actually do it.

[phleshdef]

22. The military was on this from DAY ONE. An incident commander isn't going to make a difference.

Maybe it just makes you FEEL better, but making you feel better about it does absolutely nothing to plug up a massive oil spill.

[sandnsea]

26. An incident commander makes a huge difference

Why do you think they have them?

This is a ridiculous waste of time. It's to all of our benefit if Obama realizes he has put too much trust in these corporations. It's the perfect time for him to find a way to get the point to the people.

[phleshdef]

29. So what plethora of superpowers does this magic incident commander have to contain a massive spill?

[sandnsea]

30. Oh honestly

As a matter of history for you all, we have something called a spill of national significance exercise required every three years under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990. The most recent exercise was held in -- last month, and we can provide details on that separately. In April of 2002, there was a spill of national significance exercise held in New Orleans that dealt with implications of a wellhead loss in the Gulf of Mexico. I was assigned as the united carrier commander at that time and I was the national incident commander for that exercise.

This is a continuation of longstanding relationships that I have had in the Gulf Coast for nearly 10 years, and also reflects the ability to interact with the folks down there as I did during the assignment as the principal federal officer for Hurricane Katrina. I'm honored that I've been asked to do this. I appreciate the confident that the President and Secretary Napolitano have in me, and I'm committed to working across interagency to assure the success of this response.

READ:

https://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/2931/535447/

[phleshdef]

34. Thats great, but it doesn't answer my question. What superpowers will be used?

[sandnsea]

37. Clearly you didn't read the press conference

and aren't interested in learning anything.

Oh yeah. Stupid Sunday. I keep forgetting.

cya

[phleshdef]

39. Did the IC illustrate an ability to suck all the oil out of the gulf in a single breath at the conf?

[impik]

41. It wasn't too slow, and he's talking about it RIGHT NOW

This is a crappy MSM/RW talking points, and it's disgusting that they're being adopted here. Disgusting,but not surprising.

[justgamma]

45. Yeah, he should have just dove in there and looked for

himself. I'm not sure what you want from him. He can't walk on water and I don't know if he even owns a diving suit.

[MadMaddie]

46. It was not too slow

The Coast Guard was there from the initial fire and explosion

BP lied...
April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe

What is it that people don't understand, BP OWNS THIS CATASTROPHIC DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The government does not run or own the oil companies or oil rigs.

BP was and is responsible for planning for disasters and how to control and recover from them. BP didn't even have the resources to properly fight the rig fire and they didn't have enough resources in case of a spill or gush.......

THIS IS "FREE MARKET SELF REGULATION" at play here. The Republicans own this....

President Obama was on the ground today in LA and said unequivocally that BP is responsible for this and will pay for it. The government will help until it is controlled.

[Cha]

10. The corporatemediawhores try anything they can

to bring down the Dems..this is just the latest.

<snip>

"Officials point out that Coast Guard and Navy vessels were on the scene of the explosion almost immediately. By the time the scope of the possible devastation was clear, they say, more than 16 agencies were involved in helping the company and state officials try and plug the leak and confront the environmental damage.

Obama sent several Cabinet members and other top officials to the Gulf to coordinate the effort. His EPA administrator, Lisa Jackson, and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano were supposed to attend Saturday's White House Correspondent's Association dinner but will stay in the gulf instead to attend to the incident."

Everything has to be an ignorant fucking accusation with them. whine whine whine..he didn't do that he didn't do this fast enough..Where the Fuck were they when bush and cheney were responsible for these DEREGULATIONS?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=388x20695#20701

[Jennicut]

48. Nowhere, as usual. Halliburton's cememt job might have lead to this.

Cheney wanted the deregulations. But SuperObama must fix 8 years of crap in less then 1 and a half years!

[HughMoran]

27. This is such a non-issue

Anybody who's been following this from the beginning realizes how utterly moronic this accusation is.

[treestar]

43. There are some people for whom nothing is ever enough

I mean NOTHING is ever ENOUGH

These horrible people seem to exist all over America and their every whine is catered to by a media that loves to criticize.

I run into them every day. Of course, these is always more that could have been done, in any situation, were it not for human limitations and other things that go on (these jerks judge others as though they only have that one thing on their plate - like Obama was sitting there with nothing else to do, until this particular thing came along).

I loathe these people, as you can tell. They are the losers of our society, no matter how successful they appear to be in money/power/position. They are the ones who work at making the rest of us as unhappy as they possibly can - it must fill somewhere that hole of rage they have in them.

[Raine1967]

50. UNrec'ing -- NOT because of the OP.

I agree with the premise.

But as far as the line of discussion? It is abhorrent.

Obama is no victim not in the sense that I am going - so please have a little latitude. He should not be blamed because a Company LIED about what happened. They LIED. and for a certain train of thought to be here that he should have known better is disgusting. IT's a blame the victim mentality -- and this man represents this entire country.