MSNBC BREAKING NEWS: Iraq war is officially over

[Phx_Dem]

as the last of the combat troops leave in the next couple of hours.

Olbermann broke into the Ed Schultz show with a Breaking News report that all combat troops will be out of Iraq within hours. They are continuing with special coverage from Iraq with Richard Engle, Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews, all of whom are in Iraq. Military personnel will remain for, I assume the same reason they are still in South Korea, Germany, Japan, etc., but combat troops will be gone!

Gee, you'd think we'd hear about this from other news sites, but I guess the phony Mosque story is just too good to let go of.

:party: :toast:

[derby378]

1. Not until the last soldier leaves Iraq

That includes all the "support" troops and mercenaries.

[grasswire]

4. yeah.....forgive me for not celebrating

I know exactly what is going on. Declare victory and "leave."

[Uzybone]

better than declaring victory and staying

As far as I'm concerned the Iraq war was one of our most disgraceful losses.

[pocoloco]

77. Why does all this remind me of a song??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwXYgMDoY0k&feature=related

[bobburgster]

135. I prefer this song :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhKnc0XZrs

[pasto76]

90. nah, we didnt lose. My troops kicked ass

we all got bloodied up pretty good. Make no mistake this is a very significant milestone. Less troops means less targets. Means less dead soldiers. I'll take it.

Plus this action long ago became not worth the life a single soldier. This war has been particularly vulgar, and most iraqi citizens are just normal people caught up in this mess. They deserve to their lives without our interference.

I literally felt a wave of relief when I read about this. There is a weight off my shoulders, a stone inside is gone as well. This is a big deal, make no mistake.

I do however wish ALL the troops home. 50,000 is still alot of targets, Alot of families still waiting on edge every day. Even though I am happy for this milestone, do not forget the troops that remain, and the impact that has on their families and communities.


SGT PASTO

[gort]

114. Thank you for being there

and thank you for backing up your buddies.

[Uzybone]

124. Thank you and all service members for their service

No slight to any of you, y'all did your jobs to the best of your abilities.

[happygoluckytoyou]

109. agreed! AND WOULD ANYBODY BE THAT OFFENDED IF WE JUST CELEBRATE WHAT WE HAVE JUST GOTTEN

HOLY COW.... WE HAVE WAITED AND COMPLAINED FOR YEARS ABOUT GETTING OUT....
AND NOW WHEN WE ARE MAKING A N O T H E R REMOVAL OF TROOPS
AND WE ARE MOVING IN A GOOD DIRECTION
AND YES I KNOW WE ARE NOT "THERE" YET......


-----------BUT WOULD IT BE SUCH A BIG F'ING DEAL TO JUST ALLOW THAT WE HAVE MADE HAPPY PROGRESS

(IM SORRY BUT GLASS IS HALF FULL TODAY AND I PLAN FOR IT TO BE A PEACH AND VODKA THING!!!!!!!!!)

WAY TO GO P R E S I D E N T O B A M A ! ! ! ! !

[bobburgster]

136. I agree....and I'm happier than a pig in......

shit.



WAY TO GO P R E S I D E N T O B A M A ! ! ! ! !:yourock:

[INdemo]

133. And it was all about oil...

Now that most Major Oil Companies have signed contracts with Iraq there is no reason to stay...And that is the reason we were there...
Remember the surge in troops and how all of a sudden the war had taken a turn in our favor..And how according to news reports the violence had dropped..Well ..the oil contracts were signed all of a sudden the so called surge worked and they started talking about withdrawal.only after the contracts were signed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/30/iraq.oil


And yes it has taken two years and that is unexplainable Why?
It was all about oil.........

[Phx_Dem]

5. Does that mean we're still at war with Japan and South Korea?

[derby378]

9. What we did with Japan and South Korea was legal...

What happened in Iraq, however, was not. And still isn't.

[Phx_Dem]

15. So, by your reasoning, it will never be over because it was illegal.

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous argument I've heard.

Combats are leaving = no more fight, war is over. Period.

We still have troops in just about every country we ever fought in. That doesn't mean we're still at war with them.

[jenmito]

32. Checkmate and you win! n/t

[derby378]

50. You don't get off that easily

What about the 50,000 combat-ready troops still in Iraq, not to mention the 7,000 mercenaries employed by our State Department who are still on Iraqi soil?

The occupation is not over yet - far from it. Don't let today's events convince you otherwise.

Those troops and mercs aren't there to plant flowers and kiss babies. They are trained to kill people and break things.

[jeff47]

86. So when will you start protesting our occupation of Germany?

I mean we've been there since the 1940s.

"Those troops and mercs aren't there to plant flowers and kiss babies. They are trained to kill people and break things."

The troops are there to train Iraq's army. They aren't going to be doing any fighting or police work.

The mercs are doing whatever they're paid to do, as is always the case with mercs.

[derby378]

88. Again, we've already discussed and refuted that talking point

We do not "occupy" Germany - we signed a peace treaty with Germany, and they have a government that functions quite well without oversight from the US military, which is more than you can truthfully say about Iraq.

[Recursion]

98. But we removed all line units from Iraq because of... wait for it...

...a peace treaty signed (by George W. Bush, in fact) with the government of Iraq.

[derby378]

112. Mind telling me when this treaty was ratified?

A link would be helpful. Thanks!

[Recursion]

117. November 27, 2008

That was its date of ratification by the Iraqi parliament. I'm not aware of any status of forces agreement the US Senate has had to ratify. I'm not sure of the legal reasoning for that.

[jeff47]

107. As mentioned by the sibling post

We signed a treaty with Iraq. They have a government, which works reasonably well. We haven't been policing their country for a while now.

You know, the governments of Germany and Japan required massive US military oversight for quite a while after WWII.

[iamthebandfanman]

67. i dont see that being said at all

but nice attempt to put words in peoples mouths.

and im pretty sure the soldiers left are being attacked... so, so much for ur no fighting.

[Recursion]

128. Umm... 4 killed last month, only 1 by hostile action NT

[no limit]

73. So you are saying no more american troops will die in Iraq after last night?

What are you smoking? I'd like a hit.

[Recursion]

120. A thousand or so died in Germany after V-E day

So, no, I don't think anybody's saying that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

79. Depends on your POV, doesn't it?

Try asking the good citizens of Okinawa about it.

[Exilednight]

34. Wow, that's some revisionist history. For starters, we were never at war with South Korea........

it's North Korea we are at war with. And for the record, we are still technically at war with North Korea.

Japan, on the other hand, attacked our allies. I will also point out, our forces are there to protect Japan from hostile forces. Unlike Iraq, Japan has its own police force and is fully in charge of their internal affairs along with a functioning government.

[seattleblue]

41. We never were at war with South Korea.

You should read a little history when you are not celebrating the 50,000 "support" troops we are leaving in Iraq. And yes we are still officially at war with North Korea. No treaty was ever signed.

[mzmolly]

56. Not to mention Germany.

Someone let them know, quick! ;)

[derby378]

63. We've already discussed that

We have no right to be in Iraq. So yes, I'm happy that some of our troops have left Iraq, but the occupation continues.

[mzmolly]

64. Who's we?

I don't recall discussing this with you.

[daleanime]

96. What's this?

If not a discussion?:shrug:

[Suji to Seoul]

105. Japan attacked American soil so we fought back

The DPRK, or North Korea (not the ROK or South Korea), was a United Nations war based on the fear of Communists under the bed due to the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe and the Bamboo Curtain over the People's Republic of China.

We were never at war with the ROK, though if we listened to Rhee Syngman, we would have gone straight through the 鸭绿江 and into 北京 and Ulaan-bataar, since that murdering psychopath (look up Jeju Island Massacre) wanted not only Kim Il-Sung's head on a stick, but Chairman Mao's head as well.

Please read your history.

Iraq was illegal, illadvised and unnecessary, like Viet Nam and Korea.

[TheEuclideanOne]

116. EX - FUCKING - ZACTLY!!!!!

Let's not be ditto heads here. If you go to FreeRepublic you can hear all sorts of arguments just like what we are hearing on DU


If the announcement were "The Combat Troops are leaving", you would hear, "But what about the rest of them"
If the announcement were "All of the troops are leaving", you would here "Why didn't you do this 3 years ago"
If the announcement were "IRAQ is now a democrat and 99% of the country supports the US", you would here "Why not 100%" or "Obama is now an IMAM"


The list could go on.....and on..... and on......

Sure, there are many things that could be better, but can we at least take one fucking day to celebrate an accomplishment.

So, now, getting back to your point, there are troops in 100 different countries and we are not considering ourselves at war with them. I think that we may have to realize that Iraq may be one more country added to that list.

[hlthe2b]

7. if that were the case, we would still be at war with Japan & Germany

:shrug: Look, I'm as frustrated as any at this interminable, ill-advised, and illegal war, but this is a good thing.

[indepat]

18. But, but, but, there must be a vast army of mercenaries to protect the US embassy,

said to be the size of Vatican City, in this relatively small country with a relatively small population which would seem to raise the question as to why such a large embassy for such a small, irrelevant, and insignificant country (other than possibly for its oil reserves). :shrug: :)

[ChoralScholar]

62. In that case, the Korean War and Vietnam War are still going strong. EOM

[Towlie]

104. "That includes all the 'support' troops and mercenaries?" I don't really care about the mercenaries.

[Ysabela]

122. Don't worry, it hopefully won't take long for Iraqis to drive out ALL occupiers. n/t

[earth mom]

127. That's exactly how I feel. nt

[Oceansaway]

2. wooooohoooooo !!...nt

[grasswire]

3. have we determind what troops and mercenaries will remain behind?

And has anyone determined why this war was waged?

[derby378]

8. I hear it's 50,000 "support" troops

Don't know about the mercs yet.

[xultar]

11. That doesn't sound like the troops going home to me.

[Phx_Dem]

24. That's the exact same number of support troops we still have in Germany.

I hope to God you don't think we're still at war with Germany.

[seattleblue]

42. Are German citizens attacking us and are we attacking them?

Do you really want to equate the German situation with Iraq? Do you really want to go there?

[jeff47]

83. This soon after the end of WWII, yes. (nt)

[seattleblue]

106. That is not what the poster was saying that I replied to and you know it.

He/she was talking about present day troop levels in Germany. Try again.

[jeff47]

108. Why, when your argument is so disingenuous?

You are comparing the state of one country in the immediate aftermath of a war to another country 70 years after a war.

To make a valid comparison on relative security, you'd have to compare countries in similar states, which means Germany shortly after the war.

The point we were trying to make, before you went off on the security tangent, is that the presence of US troops does not an occupation make. It is a prerequisite, but Iraq has a government. They've had several elections. That government requested training and logistics aid from the US. The troops still in Iraq are doing...wait for it....training and logistics.

[seattleblue]

115. No, the poster I was replying to was making that comparison.

You should read more carefully. The poster I was replying to was saying that 50,000 troops in Iraq is the same as the 50,000 troops in modern Germany. He/she said "the exact number we have in Germany". There is no argument more disingenuous than that one. And BTW the war in Iraq is not over.

[jeff47]

142. Where you're missing the point:

Nobody claims we're still fighting WWII. Yet we have never removed all of our troops from Germany or Japan.

Under your argument, all troops must be withdrawn before a war is over. Thus WWII has been going on for 70 years now with no end in sight.

Pick one. Either we must remove all troops before a war is considered "over", and we're still fighting WWII, or a war can be 'over' with support troops still in-country.

[seattleblue]

143. A surrender treaty was signed to end WW II.

Where is the surrender treaty in Iraq? Oh, that's right there has been no surrender by anybody. If you insist on the laughable and intellectually dishonest comparison of Germany and Iraq then we better get another million and half troops into Iraq. Because that is what the number of troops in Germany was after WW II until the country stabilized.

[sofa king]

113. Um, definitely not so.

The planned Nazi resistance to occupation was called Werwolf, and its inner workings were quickly discerned and participants rolled up. There are half a dozen incidents which might be attributed to roque werwolfen, but none can be proven to be part of an insurgent campaign. No incidents are suspected after July, 1945, or roughly 90 days after the end of hostilities in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf

There were other groups which persisted maybe as long as a year after V-E Day, but all guerilla activities circumspectly avoided attacking occupying troops--especially the French and the Soviets, who had learned well from the Germans when they were the occupiers. The French in particular seemed to be willing to take hostages and threaten them with execution should the Germans get out of line.

The major differences between Germany and Iraq include:

* A much higher ratio of force to space. There were 450,000 Americans occupying just their sector, with the British, French, and Soviets providing similar numbers. For a couple of years after the war, there were four soldiers on every damned street corner in Germany, up to a million troops at a time just waiting for someone to buck up.

* More interaction between occupiers and occupied, which quickly brought Germans toward acceptance and lessened reprisals from the occupiers. German intelligence agencies, like the Gehlen Organization, were co-opted and put to use against former Nazis--and other occupiers. There were also many more German-speaking Americans in 1945 than there are Arabic-speaking Americans today, and fewer still on duty in Iraq.

* A completely defeated enemy. Germany was wrecked beyond all power to resist; their equipment was totally destroyed; they were entirely dependent upon food shipments from the occupiers; fully one out of four males of fighting age--including virtually all those who were willing to fight in the first place--were dead or handicapped by permanent injury. On the other hand, the Iraqis dispersed and pursued guerilla warfare before "major combat operations" had begun to subside.

* Willingness to use ruthless force to coerce hostile populations into existing peacefully. When the frogs took hostages, they were not messing around. They were going to kill those hostages, as the Germans had taken and killed French hostages on countless occasions before 1945. The Soviets threatened the female German population with rape (and actually practiced it) on a monumental scale.

* The knowledge that they had it coming. By 1945, most Germans were at least dimly aware of the evil they had propagated throughout Europe. They knew their nation had acted aggressively, had defied and mocked international law, had pursued campaigns of mass torture and murder, and so on. In the 2000s, it was the Americans who were doing all that Nazi bullshit--because that's pretty much what we are these days. And, when German occupation became exploitative, it generated resistance, just as the American exploitation of Iraq generated resistance.

But the bottom line is that the Germans quit and stayed quit, totally unlike the Iraqis.

[vaberella]

94. It is when the troop number was closer to 300,000 thousand. n/t

[maxsolomon]

10. it was waged for resources

durr.

[monmouth]

6. I wonder if Petraeus and his "talk" advanced this. He might have

ticked off a lot of people, including POTUS. Just speculating.

[Schema Thing]

14. er, it's August 18th.

[polmaven]

92. I don't undestand

what you mean be "advanced this". Advanced what?

[MilesColtrane]

12. If history has taught us anything, it's that a war isn't officially over until...

the President stuffs a sock down his pants and gives a speech on an aircraft carrier.

[Phx_Dem]

16. This one probably doesn't need a sock.

But . . .

:rofl:


Edited typo

[dipsydoodle]

13. All remaining combat troops

now retitled training and support forces.

"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" :sarcasm:

[Semi_subversive]

17. My Semi-Adopted Son arrived safely

at Ft. Lewis this afternoon. He called us from Iraq a week ago, Sunday, to say he was headed home. Yesterday he emailed from Germany. I wish I could have been there to greet him. I know his 3 1/2 y.o. son will be glad to see his daddy. This was his second tour and it doesn't look like he'll have to go to that region again. TG!

[flpoljunkie]

21. That is wonderful news for his entire family! Thanks for sharing.

[Phx_Dem]

31. Awesome! So happy for all of you!

:party:

[awoke_in_2003]

138. wonderful news. nt

[damntexdem]

19. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Hmm, maybe we should wait until the "trainers" come home before we put up the banner. ;-)

[FormerDittoHead]

87. Yes. Our permanent Iraqi military base is in place!

We can fly in or out any time.

We can bring in Special Forces any time.

We can refuel, support, and stage attacks to the West, East, North or South anytime.

YES! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[Phx_Dem]

20. As a point of reference, we still have 50,000 support troops in Germany.

According to Larry O'Donnell just now on MSNBC. Which the same number we're leaving in Iraq.

We have approximately 40,000 troops in South Korea.

Deny it all you want, but this war is fucking over at long last!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Some people just don't want it to be over.

[Phx_Dem]

23. Apparently not.

[provis99]

38. we are not at war in Germany. We are at war in South Korea.

your two examples don't even go together to support your nonsensical comparison.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. We're not at war in Iraq.

So it's apt.

[derby378]

51. I guess you could say that since Congress never declared war on Iraq...

...in that sense you could be right. But our nation is still occupying Iraq in the context of what the Bush administration called a "war."

So yes, the "war" in Iraq has not ended yet. It might at the end of 2011. Maybe.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Occupation? Occupation with what combat troops?

We're there to support the sovereign government of Iraq.

Who do you think we're at war with? Who do you think we're killing? Which troops of ours are dying?

seems you've got a serious issue with denial.

[derby378]

54. Well, we're still occupying Iraq and watching over its "sovereign" government...

You know, the one that Bremer installed on Bush's behalf.

As for those troops, do you really think they're in Iraq to plant flowers and kiss babies? They are trained to kill people and break things. That's what troops do.

There is an old adage, however, that every soldier marches around with a politician on his back.

This occupation will continue until December 2011 at the very earliest. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. In the same way we're still "occupying" german, sure.

War's over there too.

"They are trained to kill people and break things."

Who are they killing and what are they breaking? Nobody and nothing.

These are some rather pathetic slurs.

[derby378]

57. Then there's no reason for them to be in Iraq, is there?

Pull them out and bring them home to their families. They are no longer necessary in Iraq, by your rationale.

End the occupation and the illegal war once and for all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Just for training purposes.

They're already scheduled to leave next year.

So much for that whole "we're stealing their oil" meme.

[derby378]

59. In that case, I'll celebrate next year

When Obama does what is expected of him and pulls all of our forces out of Iraq, then I can celebrate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Nah.

I think you'll be even more bitter.

[derby378]

61. Believe what you wish...

...but when the last soldier leaves Iraq, my dear wife will be shedding tears of joy in the afterlife. And I can breathe easier.

[Javaman]

118. Iraq's former nationalized oil has been privatized. Mission Accomplished. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

139. we already stole the oil...

Iraqui government has already signed the contracts with the big oil suppliers.

on edit- just wanted to say I do think this (the OP) is good news.

[martymar64]

70. Then why are we still in Germany?

The Russian are no longer headed for the Fulda Gap. We have no reason to be there any longer. We need to close our bases and come home.

Our presence in Germany, Japan and many other countries around the world, with a military budget greater than every other country COMBINED makes us an empire, a big ugly empire.

[iamthebandfanman]

69. Yeah, and they get attacked how often in those countries?

how often will the troops left in iraq be attacked?



not the same.

thanks for playing though.

[jeff47]

84. Now, not often. Right after WWII, very often. (nt)

[Javaman]

121. I refer you to this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=415273&mesg_id=416505

[Recursion]

119. And we had military or proconsular control of our part of Germany until 1955

And, yes, an insurgency (the "Werewolves") that claimed a few hundred Allied lives.

[era veteran]

25. That would be a fun road march for a change

#1 stupid fucking war, in our history of stupid fucking wars. Goddamn the chickenhawk neopricks to whatever hell scares them the most.

[4lbs]

26. No matter what the naysayers say, they cannot deny that Obama kept his promise.

"One brigade a month" leaving Iraq over 18 months.

140,000 troops on February 1, 2009.

50,000 troops on August 18th, 2010.

90,000 fewer troops.

18 months.

One brigade is 3,000 to 5,000 troops.

Using the 5,000 troop number, multiply by 18. That gives.... 90,000

Doing the math confirms it.

[rfranklin]

68. Is there any deadline for the other 56,000 military personnel?

How long is the occupation going to last?

[Raine1967]

75. hope this article helps.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/18/AR2010081805644.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010081805662

By the end of this month, the United States will have six brigades in Iraq, by far its smallest footprint since the 2003 invasion. Those that remain are conventional combat brigades reconfigured slightly and rebranded "advise and assist brigades." The primary mission of those units and the roughly 4,500 U.S. special operations forces that will stay behind will be to train Iraqi troops. Under a bilateral agreement, all U.S. troops must be out of Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011.

[rfranklin]

97. Yes, and it seems there was an Iraqi general saying the US must stay...

for at least another 10 years. I think it will be a miracle if all military personnel are withdrawn by the end of next year.

[catgirl]

27. Damn, I missed it!

I'm going to light a candle for all the wounded and killed troops, reporters, interpreters
and innocent civilians. This is bitter-sweet, but great news.

[Phx_Dem]

29. Coverage is ongoing and probably will be for some time. At least on

MSNBC. CNN appears to be too busy talking about the Mosque and what Sarah Palin may have tweeted about today to worry about covering the war's end. They've completely lost sight of what constitutes actual news.

[jenmito]

30. You didn't miss it. It's continuing coverage, showing the troops leaving. n/t

[jenmito]

28. I'm watching! I also see that CNN is talking about Obama with the question, "Losing Touch?" And

Faux is covering the Blagojevich verdict. I'm sure if this was happening under a REPUB. president, they'd still not be covering this. :eyes:

[Diamonique]

35. Rachel just explained that NBC was the only network given this info...

... in time to get there. They are the only ones allowed to report on it.

[jenmito]

36. Yes, but aren't the other cable channels allowed to use MSNBC's footage?

I always see cable channels using each other's footage.

[Diamonique]

40. Good question! I'm guessing this will eventually be explained. nt

[jenmito]

46. CNN was just covering it, but not Faux. CNN now stopped covering it, though. n/t

[Phx_Dem]

33. Richard Engle just clarified what support troops will be doing.

He is embedded with the troops and returning home with them. He spoke to military commanders and was told the support troops left behind will mostly fill office jobs and facilitate training exercises.

[msongs]

37. the occupation continues, the war is NOT over nt

[Phx_Dem]

39. Clearly, you wish it wasn't. It gives you one less thing to bitch about.

[frylock]

99. i love troop deaths

:eyes:

[FormerDittoHead]

85. ...and provide a foothold for the option of combat troops returning at a minute's notice.

A permanent military base smack in the middle of the Middle East - Mission Accomplished.

[Clio the Leo]

43. And the GATES HAVE CLOSED!!!!!

... on the border between Iraq and Kuwait!

God bless our troops, those who are leaving!

Those who are staying!

Those who never came back!!!!!

.... and may God bless the people of Iraq who never asked us to come!!! May we be forgiven of the sin we have enacted upon the world!

[otohara]

45. MSNBC Going All Out - Rachel in Iraq

now we know why MSNBC folks were hanging with the prez a few weeks ago -

Surprise to everyone but Rachel, KO, Richard Engle, Tweety, GE mucky mucks

Well orchestrated to kick off the 8PM hour, CNN clueless -
Smells like liberal propaganda...

[CTLawGuy]

47. hooray!

:)

[GSLevel9]

48. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! woohoo! Now book those tickets to Afg. nt

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleBlue]

53. Hahahahahahaha "withdrawal"

Good one!

[Scurrilous]

65. K & R

:thumbsup:

[denimgirly]

66. But dont American Companies still have to Rape more Money out of this...

And its an oil rich nation so i wonder if this last combat troop doesnt mean much since the occupation is really permanent.

[Deep13]

71. 50 thousand still there, but somehow "noncombat." nt

[vaberella]

125. And some how leaving in 18 months. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

72. it's a start, at least...

[Kdillard]

74. Great news. K and R. Now for that other black hole we are in.

[derby378]

76. And here's a little song for all those who put our troops in Iraq in the first place...

...along with all of those who supported torture, corruption, oppression, and murder of innocent Iraqi civilians in our name:

WARNING: This song is not for those with sensitive stomachs or anyone under 18 years of age.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9cLIKMOMFw&feature=related

[slackmaster]

78. I think it was 1973. I remember something about the last US troops leaving some country.

Where was it?

Someone help me out here.

[ieoeja]

132. Vietnam.

Then, with Saigon about to fall, we sent US Marines back into Vietnam to evacuate foreign nationals from the city while North Vietnam agreed to a ceasefire. They did take a little small arms fire from out of control Vietcong. But not much.

You know, the exact same thing the US Marines have done numerous times throughout history and around the globe.

We did do one thing fairly unique that time. We allowed South Vietnam to evacuate as many of their people as could fit onto our ships. But no US service personnel was in Saigon helping with that evacuation. They only helped load them aboard the ships then pushed the South Vietnamese helicopters overboard when the ships were full, and a South Vietnamese helicopter pilot chose to leave with the evacuation.

Why do you ask?

[Soylent Brice]

80. i am happy for those men and women who are finally returning home, but

i'll save the uncorking of the champagne for when they're all home.
including our brothers and sisters in Afghanistan.

[derby378]

81. That sounds like a plan

It ain't over 'til it's over. And it ain't over yet.

Hang in there, troops. We will not forget you.

[Soylent Brice]

89. never forgotten. n/t

[frylock]

101. yep

[BREMPRO]

82. this is great news., and a long time coming. i'm afraid though

its another in a long series of Obama's significant accomplishments for the country that deserve praise and support that won't get proper coverage from the media (RW) or acknowledgment from the far left/DU. Others?: saving us from a financial meltdown, stimulus to help turn the economy in the right direction after 30 years of disastrous ponzi schemes, health care reform, cafe standards, environmental record including regulation of greenhouse gasses, financial reform, equal pay reforms,return of world respect etc... for the far left this will not be and is not being heralded, recogniZed, and will be parsed as "not enough" "until the last troop is home etc..." can you see a pattern here? Obama said he's end combat operations, the remaining troops will provide support and logistics to Iraqi army. This is what he said he'd do, and he did it. It's pragmatic given our investment in the country to keep some troops on to keep the fragile democracy stable. He's not superman, and he's not a corporatist many here make him out to be. he's not a sellout. He's playing the long game and working within the limitations of the system he inherited. Sure he's made some mistakes, and should have focused more on jobs first before health care, but there is the groundwork set for a recovery and given the bushbomb he inherited, i'm very impressed with where we are right now. He's doing what he can to turn the titanic of this nation's endemic disaster in the right direction. Americans are by nature impatient and he and the dems may pay the price for the long game, but history i think will be kinder to his legacy and accomplishments. Many of the reforms are not perfect, but i say don't blame him for it. I blame the OBSTRUCTIONST REFUCKLICANS and the RW noise machine, tea party faux populist fanatics that twist the truth to their fascist political will to power, and the corporate media that won't fully acknowledge this or his other accomplishment. The fact that we don't have jobs are a resulst of complex short and long term factors including the middle class decline, the housing bubble, deliberate corporate game playing to withold hiring, and citizens that are reluctant and unable to spend like we used to. We ALL know the republicans or the tea baggers have no solutions. So what is your choice? How can he and the dem's succeed if we don't support him when he does something that we have all been working for passionately since 2003? I say thank you President Obama. thank you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Yeah, but there are still 50,000 "support" troops and 7,000 MERCENARIES

I suggest that everyone who believes that this is the end of the Iraq War and that the public is being fooled (especially the people whose family members are being sent for yet another tour of duty) read the New York Times article about it (which generally repeats the official line)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/world/middleeast/19withdrawal.html

and the angry reaction to it in Readers' Comments (over 200 posts and more than 90% of them expressing anger and betrayal)

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/world/middleeast/19withdrawal.html?sort=recommended

Nobody is fooled except the idiots and neo-imperialists who thought that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea in the first place.

Sorry to be the one to break the news.

[vaberella]

100. And the final soldiers will be out next year. This was also mentioned but many ignored. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

111. And what about Blackwater/Xe and the largest U.S. embassy anywhere in

the world? Why have the largest, most elaborate U.S. embassy anywhere in the world if the intention isn't to have a permanent presence and control the oil?

[BklnDem75]

93. One war down

One to go. Thank you Mr. President

[vaberella]

95. What shocks me about some of the posters is for people to push for our soldiers to leave...

by leaving the nation as the eratic mess we made. Our military went there, yes illegally, but they caused a mess and ruined many things. So, for people to push for our soldiers to leave a mess that we created is absurd. I really question the humanity of many on this site. I really do. Because we would not be helping the situation by leaving people in a disarray even if it's an illegal war our leaders thrust us into.

[dorkulon]

137. What do you think, that staying will help? We made a mess, yes, but can we fix it? No.

There is no positive outcome here. We might as well leave now, because staying will only make things worse.

[Demeter]

102. But the Occupation Continues for the Duration

[vaberella]

126. Yes the duration of 18 months. n/t

[mdmc]

103. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[dflprincess]

110. I'm sure that will be a comfort to the familes of any military personel that are killed there in the

next year or so.

:sarcasm:

[obxhead]

123. When we fire the last bullet within Iraq's border and lift the last

troop and private military contractor out the war will be over. Until then it's simply a change of mission.


If you believe otherwise you should PM me for the link to my for sale ads. They feature some modestly priced bridges near NYC and LA.

[colsohlibgal]

129. We Never Really Leave Anywhere

Nice news but with all those troops left...we're still in Poland aren't we, like Germany is still poised to roll the tanks in.

[Grinchie]

130. Sure it is...

Does that mean we can fire Blackwater/Xe, and generally save 4 billion dollars a month now?

Oh wait, the 100 acre embassy is still in harms way!

[penndragon69]

131. Mission acomplished..

The true definition of bush's famous pronouncement;

We finally had a excuse to INVADE Iraq (for poppy)
and we will stay until every drop of oil is controlled by OUR
friends in the oil MAFIA. Can you say WAR CRIMES ?

[DirkGently]

134. What IS the reason military personnel

are still in Germany, Japan et al?... and why is that okay, again? South Korea fears North Korea, and so may want us there. As to the others, do they all want us there? I seem to remember both Germans and Japanese suggesting we were not entirely welcome, and they had "rebuilt" sufficiently that we could leave any time, thank you.

We need to unpack this blithe comparison (by many) to our post WWII occupation activities a bit.

How "over" is it when we are making it very clear that we intend to control Iraq's political and military future?

Iraq is not an enemy nation we need to keep an eye on. "Rebuilding" is a nice idea, I suppose, given that we wrecked the place. But 50,000 troops remaining, along with thousands or tens of thousands of other private contractors, does not speak to rebuilding so much as to controlling.

This is a positive step and a good thing. President Obama has kept part of an important promise.

But the thing that we actually need to do is get OUT of the Middle East, stop fighting wars there, and stop trying to control the region with military force. Ending active combat operations in Iraq -- something we NEVER should have been doing in the first place -- is a small step out of a huge problem.

[snot]

140. Ask who wound up with the oil contracts.

The Iraqis wanted Iraqi companies to have them.

But I believe went to Western cos.

I expect U.S. troops and mercs, together with the gov't we installed there, will remain there in sufficient force to make sure the contracts can be safely exploited.

Edited to add a source and to make that "Western" oil cos., since they include BP: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?_r=1

[GreenTea]

141. How will the great & excellent Keith Olbermann now end his show each night?

[JanMichael]

144. It wasn't a "war" it was an INVASION and OCCUPATION. nt.