What do you see as the major benefit in freezing federal workers' pay?

[jpgray]

Is it the $5 billion savings over two years? The $60 billion savings over ten years? Can we expect that independent voters will return to the Democrats on this basis? Can we expect the GOP to concede something in return? If so, what would that be?

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. Triangulation

It worked for Clinton.

[jpgray]

10. How will people be aware of this, when they were unaware their taxes were cut before the Midterms?

Do you anticipate this is something voters will remember going to the polls?

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. He'll remind them, and continue to triangulate until it sinks in with voters

[young but wise]

2. The federal workers get to keep their job.

[jpgray]

9. How would they lose their jobs absent the pay freeze?

If the GOP has the power to fire them, the power to push such an action over Obama and our congresspeople, how does the pay freeze stop them from doing it anyway? Or do you see the pay freeze as an unconquerable barrier to what would otherwise be a GOP-originated plan to fire federal workers, one that would buck any veto via Democratic support?

[texastoast]

18. A friend of mine posted this

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/1/03539/3438?new=true

Typical civil servants didn't cause the mess we are in. It was caused by two unfunded and unnecessary wars, a very generous boondoggle to Big Pharma in the unfunded Medicare Part D, unfunded tax breaks for the obscenely wealthy, corporate welfare, offshoring American jobs, job killing trade practices and criminal behavior on Wall St. We should be targeting those areas, rather than singling out federal workers and waging war against the middle class.

The entire piece is at the link.

[sudopod]

34. Or we could buy a dozen less F22s

and not be assholes.

[zulchzulu]

3. Freezing federal workers pay is sure a lot better than 10% cut or job elimination

The Republicans were ready to slash away at federal jobs and wages if Obama didn't do something first to actually SAVE the jobs. As I have stated and backed up with OMB figures, federal workers have been getting steady raises of 3% or more every year while state workers and the private sector jobs have been dormant.

Besides, the wage increase for federal workers was going to be miniscule anyway.

A job with a wage freeze is better than a job with a pay cut or no job at all.

I've laid my point out here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=536427&mesg_id=536427

[jpgray]

7. It is a lot better than many things, in fact it is better than all that is worse than it.

I understand this. You mean to say that the GOP would be able to effect the cuts and eliminations you fear? If they could do that over our Congressional delegation and President absent the pay freeze, couldn't they do it with the pay freeze? Or is the pay freeze an immutable block on their exercising this power?

[CreekDog]

19. they could go work for the private sector in the area they regulate

the private sector pays people lots of money if they know how to outsmart government regulation.

government employees probably know these regulations best. be kind of counterproductive to lose them to private industry where it will probably cost everybody more to have their knowledge used against taxpayers.

but oh well.

[Vincardog]

4. WE the sheeple get to buy into the meme that it is US responsible for the wreckage the Financial

Parasites caused to our and the world economy. AND our 'leaders' get to continue to refuse to EVEN ATTEMPT to repair/reinvent the BROKEN BANKRUPT SYSTEM

[Nictuku]

5. Lowering American Standards of Living

Welcome to the race to the bottom. :(

[FSogol]

6. No benefit. Meaningless bone thrown to the mindless GOP to further their war on the Middle Class.

It makes me want to :puke:

[peace13]

8. Non-federal workers have taken pay cuts for years.

I would venture to say all workers that make over minimum wage have either not received an increase or took less money to do the job over the past 3 to 5 years. Why is it so hard to imagine that the government hold the line of salary increase for 24 months. I think it is amazing that folks are not embarrassed to even bring this freeze up to discussion. It shows how out of touch some people really are. If they want to be angry at the top 2% do that but don't ignore the fact that so many have been suffering before a federal worker was asked to not expect an increase. What a joke!

Edited to add that the cost savings is good but waking everyone the *uck up is even better! Those folks who have tears in their beer for their federal pay freeze and increased insurance premiums should have been listening about maybe ....six years ago. But hey, if they wake up today that is OK with me!

[jpgray]

12. Do you think lowering wages for some workers increases the chances others will receive better pay?

How does this process work, exactly? If you don't believe that this will help other workers, and instead only hurts one group of workers, why does it please you?

[peace13]

16. Why are federal workers any more sacred than the rest of the work force?

States have been laying people off, cutting hours, job sharing. The feds just keep on keeping on. How does that happen? You tell me. It is bad in the outside world and don't think that it isn't going to get worse. People can not keep their heads in the sand indefinitely. In my mind a fedral employee who has been receiving raises over the past five years and is now complaining about a 24 month freeze is like a spoiled child complaining about only getting two pieces of cake. Just saying.

[jpgray]

21. All that aside, since most workers are being harmed, these workers should be harmed also?

Or are you speaking more in visceral reaction than to the worth of this as policy?

[Henryman]

15. Really? "all workers...have not received an increase"!!!

There's not one worker in the U.S. who has received a pay increase in the last 3 to 5 years. That's completely ridiculous! The real question you should ask yourself is what kind of meager increases have government workers received in the last 20 years as private company workers may have received very large raises! I think you are perpetuating the fallacy that government workers are better off than private company workers.

[bluestateguy]

11. It polls well; a couple of days of favorable news coverage

That's about it.

[ProudDad]

14. It will get Sarah Palin elected...

Wait! That's a bad thing...

...

Never Mind. I can't think of a single benefit from this action...

[Agent William]

17. Being able to fund another four months in Afghanistan, n/t

$28 Billion= four months in Afghanistan at ~$7 Billion per month.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. The benefit

goes to the Republicans.

How many Federal workers are there? How many family members do they have? How many of them generally vote Democratic? How many of them are happy with Obama??

And another thing--happy workers do good work. I was around when the Wisconsin legislature started scapegoating the "overpaid" state workers, effectively cutting their pay and thinning out their numbers. (With a PhD and a professional license, one did make more than janitors in private industry--but substantially less than PhDs in comparable jobs in private settings). Morale crashed, Services went to hell, partly because there were too few people to do them, and partly because disgruntled employees do not always do the best work.

Cutting government employees has an interesting effect: it makes people mad at government, and angry citizens want to further punish the government workers, thus generating a vicious cycle of the sort that Reptilian Republicans love to feed.

[NaturalHigh]

22. I don't see any benefit whatsoever.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. Partly it's good PR for an unthinking populace.

It's a drop in the bucket budget-wise, but just like with earmarks or (non-corporate) welfare, what it represents in the minds of the general public is more valuable -- that these small-ticket items cost far more than what they actually do.

Having said that, given the state of the economy, a short-term pay freeze (NOT a cut) for employees who get raises as a matter of routine is not exactly high on my sympathy list. I'll save that for people whose unemployment is about to expire.

[jpgray]

26. I guess my difficulty is that I don't see the unthinking public keeping this in mind

And this is a significant problem with many policies that are intended to address GOP attacks. Most of these attacks are designed to galvanize the public in enmity, whereas addressing them does not engender gratitude comparable to that enmity. People will rage about the waste of earmarks endlessly, but they won't cheer endlessly over those who end the practice. Does that make any sense?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

27. It does, actually.

I suppose it's aimed more at independents rather than the hardcore RWer voters, though.

[MrsCorleone]

24. Extra money to create more government jobs?

That sure would be sweet.

[Phx_Dem]

25. Federal Workers are free to find new work if they're unhappy where they are.

They could go work for a private firm where they might find themselves layed off instead of getting no raise for two years. All companies freeze pay or layoff employees when they're struggling (or in the Fed's case they have an enormous debt.). It's happened to me on more than one occassion and it wasn't that big of a deal. I was thrilled they opted for that rather than layoffs.

[Henryman]

28. What you don't get...

...is that government workers DID NOT get big raises and bonuses during the boom years, like private company workers did. The trade off for working an underpaid job was pay security. Not any more. I don't understand the hate toward civil service workers!? If you were qualified, you could have applied for a government job at a low pay rate but with pay security. But you didn't and someone else did, that's what you're pissed at?

[Drahthaardogs]

31. THIS

How easy it is to forget that we chose the safer path, and wow, just when our decision makes sense, they come and change the rules. Oh well, such is life, but the haters need to remember we DID pay our dues with less pay, and Mr. President is more or less throwing the feds as a chew toy for the GOP.

[Unvanguard]

29. There is a "major benefit"? News to me! n/t

[playstation]

30. That's easy, Obama was able to deal and get the b*sh tax cuts for the rich ended.

Right? He wouldn't just freeze it for no benefit, would he?

Right?

[JVS]

32. the spite

[old mark]

33. It is simply an Obama concession to the GOP, in expectation of some

return favor by the GOP which of course will never be given..

3 Dimensional chess, ya know?

mark