The difference between Lawrence O'Donnell, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow & Ed Schultz. . .

[wndycty]

. . .Lawrence worked on the Hill, he was a high ranking Senate staffer.

I appreciate the passion and frustration of Keith & Rachel (I have stopped watching & listening to Ed), but I think Lawrence brings a certain experience to the table that cannot be dismissed.

Also, lets not deal with absolutes you don't have to choose between Obama, Olbermann, Maddow, O'Donnell or Schultz (I may come back eventually). It seems that we have a habit of making people either be all good or all bad.

[provis99]

1. yeah, well Chris Matthews was a Congressional staffer, too.

Think that makes his idiotic opinions sound better?

[wndycty]

2. DId I say O'Donnell was right or did I say he brings a certain perspective that can't be dismissed?

You know you are allowed to consider multiple voices and move on from there.

You do realize that saying a certain perspective that is based on one's experience can't be dismissed is not the same as saying "you must agree with." Don't you?

[ClassWarrior]

4. +1

I had to turn Larry off tonight because I so disagree with his position on this. But you couldn't be more correct, wndycty.

NGU.

[xxqqqzme]

32. I cannot watch him.

O'Donnell expresses the very DLC attitude I find extremely annoying. He's a bowl of mush assuming the shape of which ever vessel he occupies.

[provis99]

14. well then Pat Buchanan fits your definition of "certain perspective", too.

[ClassWarrior]

18. Sure. But there are plenty of other things that make it easy to dismiss his position.

NGU.

[lamp_shade]

23. Another +1

[karynnj]

29. I think they might ha had very different positions _ O'Donell was a staffer to the Finance committee

This meant that he dealt with every issue with any tax implication. I know that Matthews was involved with the speech writing team that Carter had after he was a staffer Could Matthews have been more involved with that or the constituent services side? He really does not seem to have the knowledge that O'Donnell has on legislation.

[Clio the Leo]

3. And that's why so many of us are frustrated....

.... we dont really understand how all of this works (myself included.)

I DO know it's not as simple as the President "storming the country lambasting the GOP" though. Didn't exactly work with the election, did it?

[wndycty]

7. While I remain to the left of most of America, I became very pragmatic in 2004, what happend then?

Two things:

1) I ran General Clark's campaign in Illinois until he dropped out.

2) I was appointed to the Governor's staff. Yeah I know, I know (THAT Governor), but I learned so much from that experience. Serving as a senior staffer in the executive branch and representing the Governor in meetings with different groups was an eye opening experience.

I remain a dyed in the wool progressive, but I believe in following a pragmatism that keeps moving the ball forward. I believe that is what Obama is doing. I get frustrated with him, like everyone else, I believe he can be fighting harder but I know there is a lot more there than meets the eye.

[Clio the Leo]

12. lol, I LOVE "THAT" Governor...

..... from a sheer entertainment perspective, he's AWESOME.

[wndycty]

15. Fortunately he was not involved in a day-to-day capacity. . .

. . .he was barely in the office. At first I thought that was a bad thing, now I think it was a good thing.

[JamesA1102]

19. Well said nt

[CitizenLeft]

35. oh, THAT governor - LOL!

Cheers to you! :hi:

[hlthe2b]

5. Thanks for pointing out the tendency to dichotomize our "advocates"

based on the current issue of the day. That is almost as frustrating as the tendency for a segment of DUers to define members as "god or bad" "honest or dishonest" "smart or ignorant" or whatever the value judgement, based on whether or not they agree with them on a single issue.

[ZombieHorde]

6. "It seems that we have a habit of making people either be all good or all bad."

I agree. Many people get upset when FDR is attacked for his institutional racism, or when Gandhi's wife beating is mentioned, and many dismiss Crowley's contributions to the field comparative religions, or Marquis de Sade's critiques of western culture.

[wndycty]

8. Oh brother

:kick:

[ZombieHorde]

13. See? People don't like it. nt

[zulchzulu]

9. Trenches vs. Parlor n/t

[DJ13]

10. I find O'Donnell to often times take the DC insider side

He did it on HCR, where he was making lots of excuses for Obama not promoting a public option.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Lawrence said HCR could not happen for procedural reasons that only he understood

Tonight, he fairly sneered at the notion that Democrats could ever win a tax rate battle with Republicans.

I mostly enjoy him, but he is fallible and occasionally overly impressed with himself.

[wndycty]

16. Well understand I said his perspective can't be dismissed. . .I didn't say he was always right

:kick:

[ClassWarrior]

17. That's it exactly. He believes if we've never done something, we never CAN do it, therefore...

...we might as well not even try. And doesn't even seem to be aware that there's value in fighting a battle because in some cases it's important to take a stand for doing the right thing, even if it's a losing battle. That seems to be an attitude that permeates the ranks of Dem insiders.

NGU.

[seabeckind]

20. Exactly

He feels you should only fight a battle if you can win. He just doesn't understand what you say, that sometimes you win just by fighting the battle.

Some things are worth fighting for even if you lose.

[ClassWarrior]

21. Yeah, it's come down to a gambling game for them. Not a fight for values.

NGU.

[Supersedeas]

30. occasionally??

[KansasVoter]

22. So the senators who oppose it are dumb?? Wow, fail!

[wndycty]

26. Did I say he was dumb? Or did I say he had a perspective that can't be dismissed?

:kick:

[Raine]

24. Thats why he's so good at talking out of both sides of his mouth. nt

[joeprogressive]

25. I'll just side with Bernie Sanders on this one.

He always seems to reflect my views and his statements regarding the tax cut deal were spot on in my opinion.

[karynnj]

27. My reaction was exactly the same - and why I like O'Donnell far better on these issues

I really liked the way he showed exactly what Landrieu was up to with her basically dishonest statement. It also shows why Obama waited to negotiate until the Senate had those Saturday votes. There was NO way to get to 60.

[PVnRT]

28. This post is far too level-headed and free from name-calling

[ClassWarrior]

31. Fuck you.

Happy?

:fistbump:

NGU.

[Phx_Dem]

33. And I have never heard him give a screaming rant. As the others do pretty

regularly.

[wndycty]

36. Interesting point, but I have seen him go off on people

:kick:

[ProudDad]

34. Let's see...O'Donnell is used to appeasing the republicans...

Trick question...

[JamesA1102]

37. No O'Donnell is use to getting stuff done that helps people

not just sitting behind a mike and mouthing off.