Who here thinks they understand how the average American thinks about the tax issue?

[RBInMaine]

The average American cares about THEIR bottom line, and on Jan. 1st if "Joe and Jane Sixpack" wake up to higher taxes they are going to get royally pissed at the ones who caused it by blocking the compromise bill. They are going to look at the situation and see that someone is obstructing a bill that would keep their taxes down. Same with those who need unemployment benefits. They aren't going to stand around and ultra-analyze the thing in some deep abstract way. And they aren't going to care if some rich people that they don't know and don't ever see nor care about get a few years of an extension too. They are not going to give a rat's ass about that. They are going to be looking at their own checkbooks and that is ALL they will give a damn about.

House Democrats better frigging god damn start learning how real people think and get out of their abstract world, or they are DOOMED on Jan. 1st when taxes for millions of Americans go up, jobs are threatened, and they could have prevented that by supporting the best compromise possible given Senate numbers. They had better wake the hell up and fast, or they are royally screwed.

[JamesA1102]

1. Wel said nt

[jaxx]

2. It is the best compromise possible.

People cannot afford a tax raise.

[RBInMaine]

3. NONE of us like the cuts for the rich, but yes, this is the best we can do right now.

[rucky]

4. Well, with so much public concern over the deficit...

the tendency is also to be opposed to spending on programs and incentives that don't directly concern them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. The Deficit Is Real .You Would Have To Be A JackWagon To Deny It

However folks on the right and left are being intentionally deceptive on its causes,ignoring the dangers of overemphasizing it during a recession, and using it to beat President Obama over the head with it.

The deficit is a symptom of a sick economy and not the cause.

[rucky]

11. I'm not denying it at all.

I'm alleging that nobody is willing to make any further sacrifices for it. The position to the left of Obama says it's time that sacrifices be made by the people who are thriving in this economy. It's a totally reasonable position.

The position on the right is to reward those people and have everybody else make the sacrifices.

The compromise is that nobody sacrifices.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Know You Are Not Denying It

My point is there is a middle ground between addressing it and using it as an excuse to oppose every form of spending or tax cuts.

[RBInMaine]

13. OK, but their FIRST concern will be their own checkbook. It ALWAYS is.

[rucky]

15. sorry, I was adding to your point.

not taking away from it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Heres's The Problem

Must folks got their taxes withheld from their pay checks so they know exactly what their net income is. If it is different the first thing they are going to do is ask their boss why...

[RBInMaine]

12. Yup !

[last_texas_dem]

6. I would tend to agree, but...

...it's also true that the average American has the political attention span of an ant and is unlikely to remember by February 1, 2011 what party they were angry at on January 1, 2011, much less by November 2012.

Then again, if an election is to be fought over tax issues, the Republicans will almost always win it- even w/ polls showing their party's views not in line with the majority of Americans. Not sure if it's just that they're more ruthless, better bullshitters, or what- but, for a party that represents the interests of only about 2% of the population they certainly do a good job of fooling 50%+1 of the voting population into supporting them.

[RBInMaine]

10. But they won't forget when their tax bills go up they the thousands.

[Clio the Leo]

8. Exactly.....

... and both parties need to realize that the last two elections were NOT vindications of their respective ideologies but REJECTIONS of partisan politics.

These folks need to cut the BS and GET SOMETHING DONE.

[atreides1]

9. I have a question

What exactly is the definition of an "Average American"?

[RBInMaine]

14. Pretty obvious in this case. People who live their lives day to day, are mostly middle and working

class people, and who don't spend hours a day on political blogs nor engaged in deep thought and research all the time on political policy matters. They go to work, pay their bills, feed their kids, go to their kids' games and events, and live their lives day to day. They are not hyper-partisan. Most people aren't. If they wake up on Jan. 1st to higher tax bills, they are simply going to be very upset with those refusing to a reasonable compromise. And that is ALL they will care about.

[sammytko]

17. The average American worker will not notice at all

They are really not concerned what is going on in the Congress or White House.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. They Will Notice When Their Pay Check Is Smaller

When I got a paycheck I knew what it was to the penny.

[Gaedel]

26. If they eliminated paycheck income tax witholding

If they eliminated paycheck income tax withholding and made everyone make quarterly estimated payments to the IRS, the income tax wouldn't survive the next election.

[pipoman]

32. Very true

the self employed know, but the paycheckers don't listen.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Computer says no.

http://www.pollingreport.com/budget.htm

I'm sure you speak better for this 'average american' than the data, but the data says you are wrong.
When offered a choice that does not extend tax cuts for the very wealthy, 'tax cuts for billionaires' loses bigtime.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. You Are Right

But that's not the choice.

Even if we win or lose this one, depending on your vantage point, the question after the new Congres will be "are you willing to forego your tax cut to ensure someone in the upper bracket doesn't get his or her tax cut." The new House will send a tax cut for everybody bill to the Senate and dare the Democrats to vote against it, thus rasing everybody's taxes...

[Warren Stupidity]

31. Your view of the choices is restricted to support your position.

The popular position was to hold the line and fight for middle class tax cuts only. Instead we now have an even weaker president and a party that stands for nothing.

[msongs]

20. this is a dupe you just posted the same thing a few minutes ago lol nt

[CakeGrrl]

22. True again. Last year, I received the highest return I've EVER gotten

And I WILL notice the change in the amount if it doesn't happen again.

[msongs]

23. your "return" is an interest free loan u give to the government, ideally no return is best nt

[CakeGrrl]

33. If you think the average American looks at it that way,

you're miscalculating.

That return is money in the average person's pocket. Tangible and real and capable of helping them eat or keep the lights on.

Let the tax cuts expire and that number is smaller. Period. Not as much money in their pocket.

It's funny how the President is roundly criticized for not putting things in simple, direct terms to the American people, but in order for people here to support this argument over letting tax cuts expire, they have to assume that the American people are thinking of things on a higher plane.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Considering that the majority of Americans are financially illiterate

they aren't going to be analyzing who are the real culprits.

[JoePhilly]

28. The media will tell them .... Obama promised not ro raise their taxes ...

and if those middle class taxes expire, the media will be more than happy to explain how Obama broke that promise.

They'll run the tapes of him promising to not raise taxes on those making under $250,000 in an almost endless loop. And along with that, videos of Bush #1 saying "read my lips, no new taxes!" ...

No analysis will be required. Its very black and white.

Oh ... and that little pun is also accurate, the right wing will use it to say that the black guy is taking money from patriotic, hard working white folk, and giving it to "urban thugs" and illegal immigrants.

[totodeinhere]

25. You are describing a very selfish attitude that has got to change.

What you are saying is that the average American selfishly doesn't care about anything else as long as they get theirs. Well, what about the greater good? What about the long term harm to our economy that more tax cuts for the rich will give us? "Oh well, I don't care as long as I get mine."

I would hope that the American people could be better than not. Because if they continue on a selfish course, we as a society are eventually in for a financial meltdown that will take us all down.

[polichick]

29. True - that's the Republican way. Democrats are supposed to stand for...

...principles that create a more fair and just society.

[pipoman]

27. Good analysis..and I agree

about people caring about their own burden and little about what the wealthy are or aren't paying. I am sort of that way myself. I do believe we can't impose 70 or 80% taxes on "the wealthy" and not see reductions in job producing investment...not all wealthy will produce jobs with lower taxation but some will and do who won't if the tax burden on the income for investment makes the risk intolerable. Maybe there should be tremendous tax advantages for investment resulting in jobs.

All that said, I hope our party is over using the pompous, elitist term "Joe Sixpack", especially from party leaders, it has become one of the most divisive terms IMHO.

[Exilednight]

30. Sometimes, and this is one of those rare times, the best thing is not always ............

the popular thing. Just because Joe and Jane sispack don't like the idea, it doesn't mean they understand the problem.

I don't like taking my vitamins, but my doctor said to take them or suffer long term damage the down the road. Guess what? I'm taking my vitamins.