If you say "yeah but" whenever anyone points out Obama's accomplishments. . .

[wndycty]

. . .then its kind of hard for me to stomach your criticism of him now.

I don't like the tax deal and I won't mind if it gets killed, but many of Obama's progressive critics have never given him credit for shit.

Whenever I list his accomplishments they are quickly dismissed, proclaimed to be "watered down" etc.

It seems the criticism of Obama is not about moving him in the right direction or pressuring him to fight, it seems most of the criticism of Obama from our fellow progressives is only intended to insult him.

[zipplewrath]

1. You see what you want to see

This is a discussion forum. Just as your lists are intended to move the discussion in one direction, the reactions are intended to move it in another.

All of these lists are created within some narrow context of a point of view and it is merely the case that other people try to place them in a different context to support a different point of view.

[Aramchek]

3. think hard.

is the direction you're trying to move us in actually toward a Republican Presidency?
because that's what you get if you bring down Obama, and you know it.

[zipplewrath]

22. Some will make the case that Obama is

He is moving right, has been moving right, and his failures will bring about a GOP presidency, very likely in 2012.

[Exilednight]

27. If we end up with a Republican president, then the only person to blame is ...............

the president. If he took a stand and fought for half of the big issues of our time to which he capitulated, then progressives and liberals would be lining up to volunteer, again.

It's not that I will not vote for Obama if he regains the Democratic nomination, but I will not be spending hot summer days and cold winter nights outside going door to door in an effort to build his support.

I hate to say it, but I can't look someone in the eye and give them a reason why they should support a candidate whose policies and style of government that I do not fully support.

[Cherchez la Femme]

46. You said it!

[Donnachaidh]

36. And I would counter that we are headed in that direction, well before the next election

Giving into tax cuts for elites, and telling his base to *suck it up* makes the present admin look more and more like the quintessential Republican presidency now.

So please spare us with the now totally without merit fearmongering. :eyes:

[NYCGirl]

45. He said to "suck it up"? When was that? NT

[mikekohr]

54. Yep. How did that Nader thing work out for ya in 2000?

Some people felt Al Gore was not progressive enough. That suicidal self defeating attitude gave us George W. Bush,
the worst president in modern times.

[emulatorloo]

8. A lot of the arguments = "Obama secretly wants taxcuts for the rich"

Ala Bill Frist's diagnosis of Terry Schiavo and just as credible.

[zipplewrath]

23. Dunno about "alot"

I'm sure you can find examples of that, but I've seen vastly more that merely suggest that he is closer to the blue dogs and conservatives in congress than any of the liberal members. The evidence is there.

[emulatorloo]

25. His legislative record from Illinois and US Senate was somewhat left of center Democrat

At least that's what I got out of my research back in the primary days. ADA ratings etc.

As far as I can tell he would have been happy to sign the kind of legislation that came out of the house these past two years, where we had a solid Dem majority. And there was some damn good legislation that came from the house.

Senate pretty much fucked up anything that came out of the house as far as I can tell, where the margins were razor thin and where Liebermann Nelson Snowe Collins types had the most "precious" votes in terms of the Senate makeup, so they got a lot of goodies.

[mikekohr]

55. BINGO!!!! The House Got the Bills Passed, they died in the Senate

The President never had a chance to sign them. And being from Illinois I can assure you that the Democratic Party had a firm grasp on all branches of government when President Obama served us as state senator. He voted his ideology then as he would today if he could. The national political make-up is not like the state of Illinois, well actually it's a lot like downstate Illinois, conservative and right of center.

[hlthe2b]

2. re:

"It seems the criticism of Obama is not about moving him in the right direction or pressuring him to fight, it seems most of the criticism of Obama from our fellow progressives is only intended to insult him."

Geebus. Generalize much? I can appreciate that you are feeling frustrated, but how is this helping? :shrug:

[yurbud]

4. so you think progressive want him to fail rather than accomplish more by setting his sights higher?

and using every means of fighting for more at his disposal?

[CakeGrrl]

7. Some of them? YES.

Don't think that every Progressive has nothing but noble intent. As I said below, some people have never wanted him in office and love to hop the bandwagon on criticism to support their belief that he should never have been there in the first place.

They aren't "concerned". They just want him gone.

[hlthe2b]

11. Are you saying "some progressives" when you say "SOME PEOPLE?"

Really? If so, you are now equating progressives with RWers?

[emulatorloo]

30. Poster did not equate RWers and Progressives

[hlthe2b]

31. In suggesting they never wanted Obama in office...

and actively trying to remove him now, yes, the poster certainly was doing so.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. yes, some of them clearly do- and have said as much.

if you haven't seen it, look around. It's here, and it isn't pretty.

[hlthe2b]

13. Frankly, I think much of what we see here is venting rhetoric....

[CakeGrrl]

5. And as ever, some of this "criticism" is coming from the

pile-ons: the people who never wanted him in office to begin with, acting as if they're freshly disappointed.

Group-reinforced anger isn't a good thing.

The claims of 'cheerleading' have never cut it. I have never seen anyone claim that nothing the President has done is wrong or that they were totally happy with it.

But I HAVE seen people claim he's done nothing. And they continue to do so.

[emulatorloo]

15. is there a correlation between posters that ignore the 2010 election results

as a factor in this whole mess, with those who were insulted and angry when asked to vote Democratic in the 2010 election?

It feels like it sometimes. Although I am sure that is not the case.

[tekisui]

6. If you say "yeah but" whenever anyone points out when Obama

makes a poor policy decision and defend it like it is the greatest action ever taken.....it is hard to stomach the praise of him ever.

It gives the impression of "Obama right or wrong".

[Bluerthanblue]

12. I haven't seen anyone claim that "it's the greatest action ever taken"

after any of his policy decisions.

Can you give an example?

[tekisui]

16. I've seen plenty say it is the best possible action.

And, I am speaking generally about every issue that comes along. There are a vocal group that defend to the end any and every decision. They will not admit that there are bad policies coming from the WH. They focus on messaging and spinning it into a brilliant move or masterful compromise.

And there are tons of threads claiming him to be the most liberal, most effective president ever.

[Recursion]

37. Well that's very different, isn't it?

I've seen plenty say it is the best possible action.

The tax compromise probably was the best possible action in the circumstances, and if Congressional Democrats fail to win any more concessions, that would more or less confirm that. That's very different from "the best action ever taken".

[Exilednight]

29. I could, but it's agains DU rules. n/t

[Mz Pip]

10. I'm more pissed

at congress than I am at Obama.

For me it's pretty easy. When I think about things that Obama has done that disappoint me, I think about what things would be like with Granda and Caribou Barbie at the helm. :puke: I come back down to earth real fast.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. I'm disappointed with congress. I do get pissed at some

of the comments on DU that use any opportunity to trash and be-little the President.

Criticizing policy and disagreeing with actions is one thing. Things go way past that point here pretty often lately.

I've learned alot from some of the honest criticisms that people have posted here. They make us think and encourage us to look deeper into the issues. There's nothing wrong with that.

:hi:

[GoCubsGo]

21. Me, too.

This whole tax cut thing wouldn't have happened had Congress done their jobs months ago.

[emulatorloo]

28. Agreed - congress should have taken this up MUCH EARLIER

before the election for sure, but earlier than that.

[kentuck]

14. All of his accomplishments do not make this deal any more right...

He is fucking up.

[emulatorloo]

17. Seriously Kentuck, tell me how to get the Republicans for vote for middleclass only tax cuts.

I don;t like the deal either. OTOH I think given the realities it is better than the worst case scenario, which is what I was expecting.

I respect you and your opinions, what would your strategy be,

[kentuck]

18. You don't..

Read this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x560927

The middle class taxcuts have to go also. But in a different way than is being debated.

[emulatorloo]

20. Thanks for the link. TaxCuts in this package = $544.3Billion. Out of that top 2% gets 81.5 Billion

So yes the bulk of this money doesn't go to the rich at all. Most of DU does not seem to realize that. You are right that has to be dealt with. Can;t read your post now, but will

[PurityOfEssence]

35. Is that the ONLY path? This is ridiculous.

Frankly, it's much more important to stop the perception of his spinelessness.

This binary crap is tiresome. Has anyone thought about throwing it back in their faces to continue income tax rates for those making under, say $40K or something like that? Personally, I will do rather well with continuing the rate cuts, but I'm happy to lose that to make a stand against the economic monarchy of moochers who demand an endless free ride.

Enough of that, though, the problem is that he WON'T STAND AND FIGHT. Even if it's for a losing battle, ANY good General will tell you that you force the enemy to stop his march and DEPLOY. Force them to stop everything, shake their column formations out into lines of battle, unlimber their artillery, break out the ammunition and prepare for battle. Perhaps THEN you turn and flee, but you've forced them to waste time. Obama, on the other hand, hands out maps and prepares victor's banquets as he gives them the keys to the city.

Forcing them to actually have to filibuster ONCE would be a good thing. (Yes, that's Reid's purview, but he has some influence...) Forcing them to stand and fight for the indefensible subsidy of the rich would make them think twice the next time. They're totally emboldened now that they can run roughshod over this man, and THEY CAN.

I'm disgusted and pissed off that we've been so enrapt with the personality of this "hero" that we have to sacrifice our and our children's futures and never question his bungling. Ishmael Reed quite succinctly put this pathetic starstruck crap with his gushing about how "cool" the guy is. There's some sick delusion that we "owe" this man everything we can possibly bring him, risking everything we have or might ever have. He has NOT lived a life of tortured ordeal and saintly anguish for which he's immune to criticism or pressure.

The point is MUCH bigger than this particular bill, it's about his instantaneous ceding of precious ground. MAKE THEM FIGHT FOR THEIR GAINS. What he does by his lily-livered pre-compromising is give the enemy much more than they could ever get through actually fighting for it.

There's a hero-worship sickness that's infuriating. How DARE we question the mega-genius chess-player. He's great because so many say he's great. He's sublime perfection itself. He's the schmoo of Politics: he's everything you want him to be. He's the stuff dreams are made of. Hell, he actually IS in some respects: he can prosecute two ugly wars, sustain extralegal detention, target opponents for assassination and violate the neutrality of sovereign states and STILL win a PEACE PRIZE. He's damn near supernatural.

Fuck the cringing acolytes who chide people for holding him to any standards of courage. He's fighting truly dark forces of primitive privilege; they don't play nice.

[Phx_Dem]

24. They know he's made significant accomplishment, they're just too small to admit it.

They've become blinded by anger and have reduced themselves to namecallers. Gee, who does that sound like?

[ruggerson]

32. Who is this "they" you reference?

Some progressives have been very srident in their criticisms of the President (who knew? this is an internet politics forum) and many have been very thoughtful and measured. So who is the "they"?

[Union Scribe]

39. You?

I've seen you call progressives all kinds of angry names, so that's my answer. It sounds like you.

[bushisanidiot]

49. +1

.

[wndycty]

51. Plus 1,000,000

:kick:

[ruggerson]

26. Many of us have applauded him

when he's done things we agree with.

His stem cell EO was great. I think he did a good job picking two qualified women for the USSC. I agreed with his stimulus plan.

However, I do think his timidity on LGBT issues has been indefensible.

[lunatica]

33. Extreme reactions get all the attention

That's how one screaming child in the movie theater can ruin the movie for a hundred people. The child is not an adult and has very little self control and can only think of one thing at a time without giving any thought to weighing all things and coming up with a fair assessment and the ability to weigh all accomplishments equally. It's extreme and narrow reactionary behavior like Bush's 'you're either with us or against us'.

I always felt that as long as we're moving in the right direction I would have to be satisfied.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. He's too conservative and consilliatory for me

I mean, he claims to be sanctified and also that others are sanctimonious. He wishes to butter his toast on both sides and still not get his fingers greasy. He needs to make his ideology deliver results, or it is just wanking.

[Clio the Leo]

38. And that was EXACTLY what he was referring to on Tuesday...

.... people are so man because his words stung ..... because they were true.

[wndycty]

41. Yup

:kick:

[JamesA1102]

40. Well said nt

[saras]

42. What accomplishments?

I read the whole thread and didn't find any mention of any.

[wndycty]

44. If you are asking what accomplishments then I suspect . . .

. . . you are part of the " yes but" crowd.

[bushisanidiot]

50. Maybe he can appease the "progressives" by unsigning the health care bill

among other things.

[Number23]

43. Well said, wndy!

Rec'd (not that it did any good)

[political_Dem]

47. Kick and Rec. A great topic that has been on my mind a lot of times.

[bushisanidiot]

48. +1

you're absolutely correct! Some here just need a boogey man and I have no idea why they are ignoring the plethura of boogey men in the republican party just to join the republicons in piling on President Obama.

well, actually, I do have an idea why.. and it has to do with why freerepubic land is virtually desolate these days.

[ClassWarrior]

52. The most vociferous critics of Obama who I know are always glad to acknowledge...

...his accomplishments. I remember when, a few months ago, a friend agonized whether he should volunteer for an Obama appearance, or if he should attend the war protest outside.

:shrug:

More strawmen.

NGU.

[wndycty]

53. Straw man? OK lets try this here are some reactions to Obama accomplishments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=266988&mesg_id=267308

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=266988&mesg_id=267318

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=459240&mesg_id=459281

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=539361&mesg_id=539364

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9672184&mesg_id=9672342

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9672184&mesg_id=9673239