If no deal on taxes in the lame duck session is so good for the GOP

[Hello_Kitty]

Then why did they bother with a compromise plan with the President?

[FrenchieCat]

1. Haven't you heard???????

They want to perserve the tax cut for the rich as long as possible.

I'm surprise that you didn't think of that one,
cause it is elementary.

Now my question to you is why do you care so much more about the top
than you do the 98% bottom?


Here are their options.....

It may mean childcare or playing outside with the cars for some kids.
DO you care?

Scenario # 1 - single person earning $10,000

With No deal & Bush tax cuts expired:
Same person earning $10,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $650.
Tax $ 15% = $97.50
No more Work credit
Tax liability is PAY $97.50


With tax compromise:
Same person earning $10,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $650.
Tax $ 10% = $65
No more Work credit
add 2% in Payroll tax deduction of $200
Tax liability is REFUND OF $135

Scenario # 2 single person earning $18,000

With No deal & Bush tax cuts expired:
Same person earning $18,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $8,650.
Tax $ 15% = $1,297.50
No more Work credit
Tax liability is PAY $1,297.50


With tax compromise:
Same person earning $18,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $8,650.
Tax $ 10% = $884
No more Work credit
add 2% in Payroll tax deduction
Tax liability is PAY $524

Scenario # 3 Married Couple w/o chilren earning $25,000

With No deal & Bush tax cuts expired:
Same couple earning $25,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $7,950 (due to change in marriage penalty)
Tax @ 15% = $1,192.50
No more Work credit
Tax liability is PAY $1,192.50


With tax compromise:
Same couple earning $25,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $6,300.
Tax @ 10% = $663
No more Work credit
add 2% in Payroll tax deduction of $500
Tax liability is PAY $139

Scenario # 4 Married Couple w/t 2 children earning $25,000

With No deal & Bush tax cuts expired:
Same couple earning $25,000 per year with 2 children.
Taxable income in 2011 is $550 (due to change in marriage penalty)
Tax @ 15% = $82.50
Child Tax Credit given= $82.50
EIC (earned Inc. Tax Credit) = $3,362
No additional Child Tax Credit given= $ ZER0
No more Work credit
Tax liability is REFUND OF $3,362


With tax compromise:
Same couple earning $25,000 per year, with 2 children
Taxable income in 2011 is $ ZERO.
Tax @ 10% = $ ZERO
No more Work credit
EIC (earned Inc. Tax Credit) = $4,415
Child Tax Credit given= $2,000
add 2% in Payroll tax deduction of $500
Tax liability is REFUND OF $6,915

Scenario # 5 Married Couple w/t 2 children earning $40,000

With No deal & Bush tax cuts expired:
Same couple earning $40,000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $15,550 (due to change in marriage penalty)
Tax @ 15% = $2,332.50
Child Tax Credit given= $1,000
EIC (earned Inc. Tax Credit) = $203
No more Work credit
Tax liability is PAY $1,129.50


With tax compromise:
Same couple earning $40,0000 per year.
Taxable income in 2011 is $14,000.
Tax @ 10% = $1,403
Child Tax Credit given= $1,403
EIC (earned Inc. Tax Credit) = $1,256
No more Work credit
additional child tax credit of $597
add 2% in Payroll tax deduction of $800
Tax liability is REFUND OF $2,653

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Then why not start the new session with their own tax cut plan?

They could ram it though quickly and get whatever they want. Right?

[golfguru]

9. so simple, they do not have veto-proof majority /nt

[Name removed]

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[Hello_Kitty]

18. So you're arguing that no tax deal helps the Republicans.

Why would they agree to a compromise then?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[doc03]

33. Don't the Democrats have the filibuster and the veto

to block anything the Republicans try to pass? We had the House, Senate and the Presidency and the Republicans were able to block almost everything the last couple years. What goes around comes around.

[Phx_Dem]

23. Because Obama said he would veto anything that didn't include

unemployment benefits. So even if they could get their version of the bill, which would eliminate unemployment benefits and Earned Tax Income Credit for the poor, passed in the Senate which we control, Obama would veto it.

That would leave everyone with higher taxes in 2011. That's bad for everyone and bad for the economy, but mostly it's totally unacceptable to GOP. Therefore, they had to compromise with Obama. And they weren't very good negotiators because we got about 90 percent of the money in the bill.

And the reason they didn't compromise with the House Dems is because they never even brought up the tax cut issue, despite being asked a number of times by the White House.

[Milo_Bloom]

13. BULL AND CRAP

You are not considering the EITC in any of these scenarios

You are further treating the 2% tax reduction as a TAX CREDIT.

This is one of the most dishonest posts I have ever seen!

[TheKentuckian]

2. What an excellent and probing question!

[phleshdef]

3. If nothing is passed before Dec 31st, I think everyone will pay higher taxes for all of 2011.

Thats my understanding anyway because its really difficult to do it retroactively. So what ends up happening is whatever they pass doesn't kick in until 2012.

[Hello_Kitty]

7. Difficult but not impossible to do it retroactively.

Neither side wants all of the tax cuts to expire.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Paul Ryan Said They Would Make Them Retroactiove

.

[golfguru]

11. Paul Ryan can do nothing unless the president signs it /nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. The Repubs Would Like Nothing Better Then To Have Obama Renege On His Promise

The Repugs would like nothing better than to have President Obama renege on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. It's a GOP wet dream.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Why wouldn't the President sign it? eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. If He Signs It We Get A More Onerous Bill Than We Have Now

So , we're screwn either way...

[golfguru]

34. He won't sign anything that is skewed more to the right

than the current proposal. That is my point. Ryan can want whatever,
and the repubs can pass whatever thru house, it can not become law
without Obama signing it. And they do not have veto proof majority.
in congress.

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Even if it meant everyone's taxes going up? eom

[golfguru]

38. Not gonna happen

There is no way some form of tax bill will not be on the president's
desk shortly.

The only way everyone's taxes go up if no new tax bill is passed
thereby expiring the Bush tax cuts. And that will not happen because
it is a political hot potato.

[valerief]

4. They got their grubby hands into the Social Security pot. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

5. It will be a win win for the GOP..

If there is a deal, they will win because they can tell the 33% of Americans that believe anything they say that they stood up for lower taxes and kept the tax and spend Democrats from raising their taxes, and that they saved jobs that way. The information entertainment media will carry this message for them. If it does not pass, they will say "Democrats raised your taxes. They had control of all houses and everybody's taxes went up. Republicans will follow up with a bill to lower taxes in the house within a week and yell that the Senate and President are just tax and spend Democrats who raised taxes and now will not do right by the American people. The information entertainment media will carry this message for them.

Because there is no real independent press, the GOP will win this argument and it is unimportant however it goes. For the GOP, pass or fail it is a win win situation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. If I Was A Repug I Would Pray This Compromise Fails

The president is embarrassd. They can write a bill next year without some of the goodies we like and easily get the four Democrats they need in the Senate to pass it. If President Obama vetoes it they can say he reneged on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class...

[FrenchieCat]

16. If You were a Republican, you would just pray that Democrats

continue to act like they have no economic, and political sense.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. People Act As If Alternatives Exist When They Don't

We are really debating on parallel tracks...

[FrenchieCat]

26. The are debating everything but what we are debating about.

They care about what the 2% get.
They care about the Deficit.
They care about the ideology.
They care about the "What ifs" with their SS scare tactics on the Prl tax.
They care about Obama not standing the way the think he should have.

What they don't care about is someone's childcare, or someone's car repairs,
or whatever. That ain't part of their argument.....
and then they turn around and have the temarity to believe only they
can decided who the real Democrats are.

That's some shit there!

[Ozymanithrax]

31. Republican's don't have to pray, they have the information entertainment media on their side.

They will sell this bill as a win no matter what.

[Ozymanithrax]

30. I'm just pointing out that Republicans have a way of selling this to their benefit...

no matter what happens. Republicans want power and will sell this to their benefit no matter what.

In spite of the heartburn in the progressive left, passing it will be slightly better for Democrats in 2012. I'm not advocating that it pass. There are significant problems with they bill, but passing it does not throw open the gates of Conservative Hell.

See this post to see just the affects of taxes on the poor and middleclass.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=561422&mesg_id=561422

[ProSense]

15. Republicans don't care. Here's the question:

If the underlying assumption is that the President wants a deal that includes tax cuts for the rich, what would prevent him from getting it in the next Congress?

Also, the stimulus provisions will have expired too, and Republicans are not going to extend those.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. If We're Lucky They Might Have To Extend UI To Get Four Democratic Senators

If we're lucky...

[Hello_Kitty]

21. You haven't answered my question in the OP.

Why would they agree to a compromise if it helps the President and Democrats?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Because They're Stupid

If I was the Tan Man I would pray this compromise fails so I can pass a bill in the new Congress when the whole nation/world will be watching with tax cuts for everybody and beg the president to veto it, thus reneging on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. I am assuming the Repugs easily get the four votes they need in the Senate.

Here's four, off the top of my head- the Nelsons, Manchin and Lieberman...

[FrenchieCat]

27. Because they can just go back and dog him out on the deficit!

and they still got their fucking tax cut.

Get it? :crazy:

[Hello_Kitty]

28. But you said they wouldn't get their tax cut w/o the compromise. eom

[FrenchieCat]

32. They'll get it after swearing in the New Republican President,

and their overwhelming majorities in the house in 2012.

That's almost as good of a deal.

[Hello_Kitty]

35. They're willing to go without their tax cuts for 2 entire years to stick it to Pres. Obama.

But they're also willing to compromise with him because they're so desperate to keep them.

Got it.

[ProSense]

29. Because they don't care

All they want are the tax cuts for the rich and they know that Democrats want the rest of the package. They're happy to do this because they get what they want and an opportunity to posture and create division among Democrats.

That does not mean Republicans will lament the deal falling through.

[nenagh]

37. Now it is Obama giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy..

Next year, the Repubs would have to propose the bill and many TeaParty people hate the idea...

So this way it sticks to the Dems and Obama..

My 2 cents..