Aren't 8 horrific years of Bush proof enough that his tax cuts should come to a screeching halt?

[mtnsnake]

even though it might mean we'll all have to sacrifice his tax breaks so the country can use the tax money to pay for the things this country desperately NEEDS, like creating infrastructure jobs with the tax revenue...as opposed to us getting a few hundred bucks the next two years so we can go out and "stimulate" the economy? Stimulate the economy with Bush's tax breaks. What a joke that is. We all saw how well it stimulated the economy for 8 long years. Gimme a break.

How about we pay as we go, instead of borrowing more from the Chinese. How about we stimulate the economy by going back to the tax rates we had before we got flushed down the toilet by Bush? Things were much much better then. In case you don't remember we went from being in the red to being in the black with a tax structure that we Democrats were all perfectly happy with.

Oh and while I'm at it, extending the federal unemployment benefits should have nothing to do with extending Bush's obscene tax breaks. The only reason they have anything to do with it is because we took the Republicans bait hook, line, and sinker.

When the hell will someone grab the American people by their collars and tell the people that they are just going to have to sacrifice for the time being instead of jumping on the bandwagons of Gallup and looking at everything through the eyes of people who are convinced that getting more money in their pockets now is such a good thing.

We didn't elect a Democratic president in 2008 to incorporate the policies of that great economic genius, George W Bush. Two more years of this shit and we just might find ourselves right smack in the middle of another great depression.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Apparently not.

[ProSense]

2. "The deal will, without question, give the economy a short-term boost."

Krugman: The deal will, without question, give the economy a short-term boost.

The President also know that the "short-term boost" isn't going to come from tax cuts for the rich.

Obama: Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich Won’t Create ‘One Single Job’

[mtnsnake]

3. Big deal. All you care about is a short term boost? What good is that in the long run

when we realize China owns us and we don't have another cent?

Oh, and how much of a short term boost did Bush's tax deal give the economy during his 8 years of the same exact thing?

[ProSense]

5. "All you care about is a short term boost?" Don't you?

Arguing against more stimulus now doesn't make sense. Unless someone comes up with an alternative, the deal should pass. There will be a long battle to get more stimulus and this will keep the economy from sliding backward until that happens.

[mtnsnake]

7. No I do not. I want a long term, more traditional Democratic solution. Haven't I made that clear?

Arguing against more stimulus now doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense to argue about it when we see the results of the same exact stimulus under George W Bush that has this country on the verge of TOTAL collapse.

[ProSense]

9. Where's the plan?

I want unemployment to drop to 4 percent, but killing this bill isn't likely to make that happen. In fact, killing it will likely have an adverse effect.

[mtnsnake]

13. Stand our ground. Repeal Bush's tax cuts. Use the revenue for what ails this country. Stop the wars.

What happened to our original plan of ending Bush's tax cuts so we could create the jobs with the tax revenue we so desperately need and get out of debt?

[ProSense]

14. He didn't promise to repeal the tax cuts for the middle class

That's your position.

[mtnsnake]

17. So there you go. Repeal ALL of Bush's tax cuts. It will be the best for the country and us.

We need to stop thinking in terms of putting a few extra bucks in our pocket for two more years while the country goes down the drain, creating a collapse that could take decades to dig ourselves out from.

[ProSense]

22. "We need to stop thinking in terms of putting a few extra bucks in our pocket "

Are you serious?

A lot of people are hanging on by a thread. Cutting that thread is not good for the economy, and neither is cutting off unemployment benefits.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Rampant Speculation In The Securities And Real Estate Market Is What Brought Us To The Verge

Rampant speculation in the securities and real estate markets is what brought us to the verge of collapse. The same conditions that caused The Great Depression. Herbert Hoover's response was to raise taxes and balance the budget. The two things you are advocating.

[kenfrequed]

32. Hmm a bit of a simplification.

Hoover favored a hands off solution until it was nearly too late.

The ultimate solution was to raise taxes and use it to create infrastructure and programs that provided for the poor and working class. So for this purpose, moving taxes back up (particularly the almost record low marginal rate of taxation on wealth and the still low rate of taxation on capital gains)

Pretending these silly-assed tax cuts are the same as a solution is absurd. And wait, wasn't massive capital gains taxes and giving tons of money to the wealthy and the deregulation of the banking industry all parts of what caused this mess in the first place?

[eridani]

34. We want a stimulus that gets real mileage for the amount of money

The giveaway to the rich is a total disaster and will provide no stimulus at all. The payroll tas cut is an assault on Social Security that will only be used to pay down debt. If you are going to add that amount to the deficit, it should at least be spent on direct public investment.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. I'm not sure "opposed to it" means what you think it does.

[RufusTFirefly]

18. Stop cherry-picking Krugman

The point of his column is that this deal is a bad idea. Here's my contribution to the cherry-picking, but it happens to be Krugman's conclusion. As you may know, a conclusion tends to be a summation of an article's main idea. (Parenthetical comment is mine, not Krugman's)

The question, then, is whether a year of modestly better performance (your beloved "short-term boost") is worth $850 billion in additional debt, plus a significantly raised probability that those tax cuts for the rich will become permanent. And I say no.

[ProSense]

28. "cherry-picking "?

The post links to the statement. Did he say this: "The deal will, without question, give the economy a short-term boost"?

Yes, he opposes the deal, but the point is that counter to the OP, it will be stimulative.

[RufusTFirefly]

36. Jumping out of a skyscraper window will, without question, produce a short-term sensation of flying.

[Atman]

30. "Short term" = "just up until election time."

This is all a fucking sham. I'm disgusted. No one is willing to display LEADERSHIP, just party/petty bullshit.

[nichomachus]

35. Sort of like giving an addict in withdrawal a little more dope

"Helps" in the short term -- horribly destructive in the long term

[abelenkpe]

6. Republicans will say 2001-2006 were great

housing was booming, service sector growing, then the dems took over congress.

I'm just sayin'.


That is their counter to such questions.

Even tho they are blithering idiots.

:)

[disillusioned73]

10. I've heard that one personally...

from my RepubliCON boss - he buys all their propogaganda hook, line & sinker. It's quite pathetic to watch... but at least he sends me a lot of his entertaining e-mails, it is an onslaught of misinformation and when you couple that with Faux noose.... well you know the rest, their "echo chamber" is impressive

[abelenkpe]

16. Indeed!

Love how they have their own facts, own science, own histories...

so much for the liberal media. :)

[jenmito]

8. Tell it to the Dem.-controlled Senate which REJECTED that reasoning.

Obama agrees that the tax cuts for the rich didn't help the economy at all, and wanted to let them expire, but the Senate disagreed.

[obxhead]

12. The people that benefited the most from the tax cuts did not

see the Bush years as horrible. They found them extremely profitable.

[Kennah]

15. Eight? Hell, it's been almost 30 years!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. What Happens

What happens if this compromise fails and the new Congress passes the same bill and forces Obama to veto it, reneging on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class?

[mtnsnake]

20. He wouldn't be raising taxes.

The Bush tax cuts were due to expire, and they should. In his own words, he would just be letting the tax rates return to the same structure that existed before Bush.

edited to add: I would love to see Obama stand firm and let Bush's tax cuts expire, period, for the good of the county, as opposed for the good of political gain. If the Repukes say he raised taxes, so be it. They'll find a way to say he raised taxes anyway. Big deal, they always say that about us because we let them get away with framing the issue all the time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Who Am I Going To Believe? You Or My Lying Eyes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y&feature=fvw

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Can You Give Yourself a + 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4rAE77K9yg&feature=related

on edit- I will put this in my Favorites so I don't have to look too far if someone says Pres. Obama didn't promise to cut taxes for 95% of Americans.

[ProSense]

24. Interesting

"I would love to see Obama stand firm and let Bush's tax cuts expire, period, for the good of the county, as opposed for the good of political gain."

So now you see this as good for political gain? Krugman and a lot of other critics argue otherwise.

Still, why would the President do something that's bad politically, that he opposes (ending the middle-class tax cuts and some stimulus) just because you think they're a bad idea?

[crazylikafox]

21. There you go with those pesky facts again

[Phx_Dem]

25. Worst argument ever.

All tax cuts are not equal. Bush's were almost all for the rich. The exact opposite is true with Obama's tac cuts

[mtnsnake]

27. After reading your post, likewise. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. If Being A Democrat Means Taxing The Hell Out Of The Poor I'm Retiring My Handle

If there is anything that offends me more than giving a break to some rich fuck it is denying a break to a poor person.

[Exilednight]

38. Obama's tax cuts are the same as Bush's tax cuts. Oh wait, that's right .............

Obama raised taxes on the poor while keeping everyone elses tax cuts in place.

[Autumn]

31. One would fucking think so.

But they want to continue.:crazy: What's next? Do we owe George Bush an apology since we must have been wrong and it must have worked so fucking well?

[EndElectoral]

33. This damn capitulation just makes me so damn irate!

[Kablooie]

37. Yes, of course. But what does that have to do with anything?

The world is not about doing what's right or reasonable.
It's about grabbing everything you can for yourself right now.