Why do so many in the 19% of Democrats against Obama in 2012

[pnwmom]

think that they represent the party's "base" -- as opposed to the 78% who support him?

According to the latest CNN/ORC poll.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20026715-503544.html

"Now, a new CNN poll provides some fresh data on the standing for candidates on both sides of the aisle. The poll finds that Mr. Obama's standing with Democrats for their 2012 nomination is improving, while Tea Party champion Sarah Palin has lost ground to fellow potential Republican candidates Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich.

"The poll finds that while many Democrats were upset with Mr. Obama over his tax-cut compromise, nearly 78 percent of Democrats in the poll say they want Mr. Obama as their nominee in 2012. Only 19 percent of Democrats would prefer someone else, the lowest rating on that statistic since March."

[sellitman]

1. Not his base. His Liberal Base.

Worded wrong IMHO

[pnwmom]

4. So you're saying only a 5th of Democrats are liberals?

Then why would they ever be surprised if Obama wasn't as liberal as they were?

[Exilednight]

19. He sold himself as liberal-lite. Take a look at his list of promises and

you will see a pattern.

Some on this board argue that we (liberals and progressives) project upon Obama what we want to see.

But let's take a look at some facts.

It was Obama who said that it was alright to compromise, as long as you don't compromise those principals that can't be compromised. Now, if a federally run public option is not one of those principals, then he should of said so when he was running for office. Maybe, many liberals would of taken a second look and had second thoughts.

It was Obama, who as a candidate, that championed tolerance as one of the core Democratic values, but it was Obama being sworn in as president who invited one of the most intolerable individuals to offer a prayer at his inauguration.

It was candidate Obama who said it was time to get rid of beltway insiders that walk the halls of government, but it was President Obama who appointed beltway insiders to more than half of his top cabinet positions.

It was candidate Obama who said the people deserve a seat at the table when it came to HCR, and that corporate lobbyists do not, but it was President Obama who froze out the people and welcomed lobbyists with open arms.

You tell me, who let who down? And more importantly, who sold themselves as the man who could make these changes despite opposition?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[Pirate Smile]

13. 85% of self identified liberals in the poll want Pres Obama to be the nominee - even higher then the

78% for the entire poll.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/12/28/cnn.2012.poll.pdf

[frylock]

50. self identified liberals

[joshcryer]

119. What other kind of liberal is there?

[vaberella]

136. This is when the left sounds like the right.

"Real Americans" versus some other American...
"Not Real or Self-Identified Liberal" versus some other type... we just don't know.

[WI_DEM]

140. So? if you we're asked if you were a liberal in a poll what would you say?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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[Moral_Imagination]

127. Nope, Democratic disapproval

of the President is from his right... not his left.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. I see it's time for DU's daily 2 Minutes Hippie Punching

And here I thought "The all powerful Left is destroying the President!!" was in the lead but I see now that "The Left is a marginal powerless fringe group that no one listens to!!" is making a strong comeback. Y'all need to pick one of those memes and stick with it because they can't both be true.

[treestar]

24. But the question was, why are there people in this minority so sure they have

they are the base? Claiming to have so much power to swing elections?

[Hello_Kitty]

43. Why do you care?

If we can't swing elections what does it matter? :shrug:

[awoke_in_2003]

118. +1000. nt

[treestar]

124. I'm asking them

If I'm in a minority on an issue, I don't expect the majority to bow down to my will.

Not understanding why this group expects the centrist to serve them against their own wishes.

Of course they can't throw the election. So why do they yell and stamp their feet at everyone else?

[Hello_Kitty]

148. Are "centrists" the majority?

Tell me, treestar, what "centrist" policies enjoy the most popular support?

[WonderGrunion]

134. A black fly bite will never kill me, but they are damn annoying

And I still desire to swat and crush the black fly.

[Hello_Kitty]

144. Lovely use of violent eliminationist rhetoric there

I mean, god knows liberals don't get threatened with violence and elimination enough in this country. Really special to see that kind of talk on a progressive site.

Shame on you.

[Tesha]

71. That would be because we *KNOW* who worked in the last election...

...and who didn't. And it wasn't the centrists who did the
work, it was "the base".

Tesha

[Egnever]

74. LOL

:rofl:

[Ikonoklast]

78. Is sticking knives in a candidate considered 'support'?

Funny how only those self-described as 'the base' here are the only ones that canvassed and phone-banked for Mr. Obama...they must have stayed home where I was.

They were too busy pouting for their failed fringe candidate, and stayed home. Never saw them once at any meetings after the primaries were over.


And they say it all the time.

Obama will win in 2012 without them.

[Tesha]

84. We're going to test your theory.

But don't be too surprised when it is disproved.

I worked very hard for the Democratic campaigns in
each of the preceeding election cycles, but I won't be
lifting one finger for Obama in 2012. Well, maybe *ONE*
finger, in thanks for all the times he's deliberately pissed
on my small-d democratic values...

Tesha

[niceypoo]

91. Is sticking knives in his own supporters backs considered 'leadership'?

No, it is stupid.

[Hawkowl]

96. Actually, it is suicidal

I think Obama is delusional and really believes that his mere election has banished all racism and partisanship from the country. I think he believes he is simply a black Ronald Reagan, and how could everyone not love him? Seriously, he has a celebrity mentality because he campaigned like a rockstar--filling professional sports stadiums! When one person is the focus of that much adulation, it is almost impossible to avoid coming down with a fatal dose of hubris.

[niceypoo]

112. The 'base' is the 'left'

There are two parties in the US. The Democratic party and the republican party. The Democratic party is on the left of the political spectrum and the republican party is on the right of the political spectrum. There is no center in American politics.

[mkultra]

100. actually it was us liberals not in the 19%

I know because im one of them and i didn't meet very many of the complainers and i dont know ANYONE who has now "converted"

[treestar]

125. Not buying that one

And it would be corrupt for them to expect their minority wants to come first in return.

[Number23]

73. Actually, I think the question is "Why the hell do people use the term 'hippie punching' in 2010?"

Is that supposed to mean something to anybody?

A) Of all the groups in American history that are known for passing legislation/great social movements etc., what are hippies known for? What great social movement are hippies credited with spearheading? I will be the first to concede that the hippie movement seemed to have an immense impact on music and popular culture. But what did hippies do to influence SOCIETY?

B) Who the hell here still considers themselves "hippies" and how old are these people?? My mother (born in 1951) is barely old enough to consider herself a hippie and I can guarantee that she would never do so. She was a Black Panther supporter and to her, hippies were stoned, bored white kids looking for something to do on the weekends. So why the hell are people in 2010, damn near 2011, still using the term "hippie punching"?

I have seen that phrase on DU at least a hundred times and I have no idea why anyone would use it. If there was ever a phrase that seemed to capture the essence of absolute impotence, of utter irrelevance combined with a baffling, unsubstantiated sense of self-importance, it would have to be "hippie punching."

[KossackRealityCheck]

109. Excellent point! The "hippies" destroyed the left

and it seems that the irrelevant, impotent fringe that identifies with them today wants to do the same.

Before there were hippies, there were serious young people, in and out of college, doing the hard work of organizing -- in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Students for a Democratic Society, and so on.

Then a group of irresponsible, media loving, completely unserious clowns came on the scene, led by people like Abbie Hoffman and Tim Leary. Instead of running mimeograph machines and organizing freedom rides the slogans focused on "tune in, turn off and drop out" or "steal this book." They completely turned off America from the struggle, fractured the left, drugged a generation and ended the anti war and civil rights movement more thoroughly than J. Edgar Hoover could ever dream. Then their "style" was coopted by Pepsi-cola, Levis jeans and other mega corporations and sold back to the youth as a "life style."

That anyone is idiotic enough to use the term "hippie punching" is mind freezingly scary.

[Number23]

122. Interesting. I have to admit to knowing practically nothing about the hippie movement

and really not caring to know more about them than I do. So your post was enlightening.

[Aleric]

86. Because you keep telling us we do

We were villified that we "cost" Gore his election.

We were villified when that pathetic "war hero" ran from the field in Ohio.

We were villified that we didn't work hard enough in 2010.

Why do keep yelling at us about costing you elections if we have no power?

[creeksneakers2]

92. Because we need 51% to win

And if 2% doesn't show up that leaves us with 49%. The far left has power, but its only power to destroy.

[Tesha]

93. Then maybe some things should have been done to please the liberals?

Heaven knows enough things were done to kiss Blue Dog
ass, and they're probably no bigger a faction than the liberals.

Tesha

[creeksneakers2]

97. The 2% demand the most extreme things

that wouldn't fly with the rest of the country. Look at how much that watered down health care law Obama passed cost Democrats in the last election. Imagine what single payer would have done. There wouldn't be a Democrat left.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

126. that nothing was done that should please them is an unreasonable position

to take. Nothing? Oh please.

Sounds like they are not part of any solution.

[barbiegeek]

139. U were villified over Gore because Many of U DIDN"T Vote for him

They left and supported the Green party.

What are u talking about with Ohio?

Yeah, NO ONE showed up in 2010 to help Left or Center where I live, everyone had election burnout from 2008.

People yell because they feel like far left constantly abandon the party at elections & go green. Kerry would have won had Nader not ran--FACT. He would have won my state it was that darn close here and people are pissed that Bush won (especially those with family in the military).

Our party fractures & loses elections and we get stuck with A**holes. People left Carter for Kennedy & we got Reagan & forever lost our previous economic system and replaced it with trickle down. People left Gore & Kerry for Nader & we ended up with Bush.

Our party lacks cohesiveness and loyalty to the wide tent of ideas. You're either too liberal or too center. People forget what is good in California liberal ideas doesn't work for liberals in Wisconsin.

[Hawkowl]

95. 2% swings elections

Surely you remember Nader in 2000? It was ALL his fault Gore lost. Those stupid, liberal, left wing hippies! :sarcasm:

Seriously, I don't care if you call the 10 -20% of the left wing who consistently vote Democratic Party, the base or the fringe. The fact is, Obama will not win in 2012 if he continues to alienate the lefties. This isn't 1996, Obama isn't Bill Clinton and Ross Perot won't be running in 2012.

[ClassWarrior]

123. It was that minority that volunteered IN DROVES to get the mushy middle to the polls in 2008.

That sounds like the power to swing elections to me. And the President neglects the level of motivation amongst that minority at his own electoral peril.

NGU.

[Arkana]

133. You folks claim to have all-encompassing power to destroy Obama

at your leisure.

Hits a nerve to see that you're a small minority, doesn't it?

[Uzybone]

3. the 19% are probably conservative democrats and anarchists

not liberals.

[Union Scribe]

5. So if the 19 percent can't speak for the base, why do you think you can

speak for the 19 percent or their motives?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Uzybone]

8. I'm not speaking for them, I'm just guessing what their make up is

most of the primary Obamites I have seen are either the far far left fringe or folks who want a more conservative nominee.

And not even an idiot should think those who don't want Obama as the nominee are the base. Unless the democratic base suddenly doesn't include minorities.

[niceypoo]

110. Define 'the far left fringe'

Can you define it, or is it just a negative sounding label that you like to tar and feather fellow Democrats with?

[AndrewP]

16. +1 Exactly

This is just another "You aren't cool like we are" post. The OP I mean.

[Ignis]

141. Because this is GDP.

[treestar]

25. At least some of them, true

So the idea President Obama is not liberal enough just does not hold water.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. I agree. The 19% are probably Blue Dogs who believe that Obama's too liberal.

They are likely the Reagan Democrats who didn't have a problem voting for Bush, either.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

58. I'm sure a proportion of that 19% are disaffected liberals, while another

proportion are Reagan Democrats who feel that the president is too liberal.

I find it fascinating that there are a group of people who believe that Obama is too liberal, while there is another group who are convinced that he's not liberal enough.

To me that says that this man is hard to pin down.

Even when reading his books, it's very difficult to decipher his political philosophy. I'm a political scientist by trade and I couldn't tell at all where this man is coming from.

Maybe that means he's doing something right. Pissing off everyone in some way.

[namahage]

61. Why not actually look at the poll internals to find out who the 19% are?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/12/28/rel17j.pdf#page=8

A few stats on those wanting a different candidate (note that all of these percentages apply to the respondents who identified themselves as part of the group that traditionally votes Democratic):

They comprise 20% of the males, and 18% of the females who identified as making up the Democratic Base (including independents) and participated.

They make up 19% of the 50-64 and 17% of the 65+ age range.

They are 24% of those making less than $50K, and 24% of those with no college. Among incomes of >$50K and college attendees,the numbers are slightly smaller, with 13% and 15% respectively.

They include 27% of those identifying as Independent, and 14% identifying as Democrats.

They comprise 13% of those who identify themselves as liberal, and 20% of the moderates.

18% of those from the South want someone new.

They also include only 8% of the respondents who are opposed to the Tea Party, while making up 24% of those who are neutral to the Tea Party.

Oh, and one more: 22% of the white respondents want a new candidate.

Fine, you say. But something seems missing from the percentages I quoted here. Where are the numbers for people below the age of 50? Or those living in areas other than the South (such as the West and Northeast)?
Or the number of nonwhites who participated in this poll and want someone other than Obama to be nominated?

Take a look at the poll internals and you might be surprised at what you find regarding these demographics.

[Atticus]

6. With all due respect, I must reject your premise.

The 19% is the percentage of self-identified Democrats who would prefer a presidential candidate other than Mr. Obama in 2012. This does not necessarily mean they are "against" the President. Most of them, I believe, would vote for candidate Obama rather than ANY Republican.

On the other end of this poll, do the 78% of self-identified Democrats who want Mr. Obama to run again necessarily "support" him, in the sense that they are mostly satisfied with his performance? Many of these people are, I submit, simply being pragmatic: Obama is more likely to defeat whoever the Republicans put up and having a Democratic president is better than having a Republican president, if only because of the SCOTUS appointments.

[ClassWarrior]

20. Nice dissection of poisonous, black-and-white BS.

NGU.

[Go2Peace]

34. Funny how fundamental *Democratic* rights are so despised by some here

It is NORMAL and NEEDED in a democracy for people voice their preferences and greivances even withing their own party. The folks here who want to shut down what they consider "dissent" have little idea how undemocratic their activity is.

[mkultra]

101. im pretty sure that they just see it as dishonest dissent

Which is a great candidate for removal.

[niceypoo]

111. There is a tiny fringe that basically worships Barack OBama

No matter what. They have no political compass, and their 'core values' shift on a daily basis with the prevailing winds.

[Mortos]

138. And there are an equal number here

who have been bad mouthing the President since day one, not giving him any time to change the direction of the country, criticizing every accomplishment and trumpeting every failure (perceived and real). To accuse those who support him of having "no political compass" and shifting values is mildly amusing since a compass, in order to work, must be fluid and change to work properly while one that stays stationary regardless of position is broken and useless.

I have very strong political and moral beliefs and President Obama reflects them. As a lifelong Democrat, I fully support him and his re-election.

[treestar]

27. No doubt some of each group do think that way

But then the PL does not talk that way. The far left wants a more leftist candidate and demands it, though they make up likely less than 19% of the party.

[Go2Peace]

36. So do you not like Democracy? That is part of it.. Unless you want Russian style government

you can expect that people will express, and yes push for, their preference. What is expressed by that so called "far left" is completely normal and necessary in a functional democracy.

I understand proponents having strong opinions, but on this site many are trying to enforce or intimate classes of voters simply for being democratic. They should think a little more about what they are partaking in.

[stevenleser]

45. Why do you have to be a Nazi? (You are not the only one who can use logical fallacies)

The President of my local Democracy group said that people who say the things you say are not only anti-Democratic, but Nazi's too.

Besides, since you are dumb, and everyone else agrees with me, and since you will not answer the question about whether you have stopped beating your wife, I conclude you are wrong.

:sarcasm: replete with about half a dozen examples of logical fallacies

Moral of this story, when you lead with logical fallacies like "So you do not like Democracy" and "Unless you want Russian style government" do not expect to be taken seriously and have serious responses

[Go2Peace]

83. Right.

My question was rhetorical, not accusatory (as yours most certainly edged toward). Seriously, how much do you know about the way Russia expresses Democracy? They act like they are Democratic while they enforce party unity. That isn't a Democracy.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. As a proud member of the "far left" who supports the president, I firmly

believe that a more leftist candidate than Barack Obama is untenable. It is unrealistic. And those who are suggesting that a candidate like Kucinich (who I supported in the primaries) or Alan Grayson or Anthony Weiner or Bernie Sanders could win, are not being very realistic.

Many of those who are disffected now by Obama are the ones who projected onto him what they wanted him to be. Someone in this thread wrongly stated that Obama painted himself as a "liberal-lite." I fully disagree. There was absolutely nothing in Mr. Obama's rhetoric on the campaign trail nor in his debates with his rivals that suggests that he's a liberal, "liberal-lite," or anything of the sort. Nothing in his two books. Indeed, nothing in his voting record would suggest such a thing, either.

But so many people *assumed* him to be liberal simply because he opposed the invasion of Iraq.

He also, however, repeatedly told us that he was escalate in Afghanistan. He told us that he is not a pacifist, being against "stupid wars." He told us that while he would pursue diplomancy with Iran, it didn't mean that a more aggressive approach was out of the question.

I think that the vast majority of the 19%, be they liberals or Reagan Democrats who have bought into the notion that Obama is too liberal, are out of touch.

Though I wish this country had more "self-identified" liberals in it, I just don't think that's the case. And as long as that's not the case, we need to face reality.

[mkultra]

102. BINGO. you are the winner

I would rather have DK anyday but im smart enough to know better than to run him in a general. If we constantly put him up, we would suffer a dynasty of GOP assholes.

[martymar64]

9. Low-Info voters

Most people don't take the time to research issues beyond what the MSM spoon feeds them.

The American people are just not that bright, not anymore at least.

[Laelth]

85. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[Dokkie]

10. Could be anti war voters

If the war is your number 1 issue, then Obama is definitely not your man. Some of us want the use of delepeted uranium on the Iraqi and Afghanistan people stopped, not 1 week from now or 6 months but NOW. People in this country are suffering and infrastructure is deteriorating and we seem to have more than enough for the wars

I will see what kind of liberal challenges he faces in the primary and you bet I will be voting for the anti war guy. @ years is long enough wait for me (dont even accuse me of not paying attention during the campaign because he could have easily changed his opinion on Afghanistan just like he did with the health insurance mandates)

[cali]

14. there won't be a viable primary candidate to the left of Obama.

It's that simple.

[bvar22]

17. But unless this Administration....

....does SOMETHING to mitigate the Vacuum they are creating on The Left,
we WILL see a 3rd Party Spoiler.
Vacuums are filled.
Its Physics.

[Go2Peace]

38. True, but do you realize that people are simply expressing democracy?

there are some on this site that are terribly anti-democratic.

Our real problem is that we have been forced into an un-democratic situation by a two party system. And now undemocratic voices in our own party want to further neuter DEMOCRACY by intimidating voters and trying to make them less democratic in their thinking. It's absurd.

[mkultra]

103. yes, shockingly, not all voices are accepted here

I know that must come as a surprise to you consider the reasons why this board exists.

[treestar]

28. Well a Republican is certainly not their man or woman

And I'll take the opinions of the experts on Iraq and Afghanistan and how to get out of the entanglement created by Bush over the demands of keyboard warriors.

[Go2Peace]

39. In Russia that kind of thinking would be a Putin patriot. You must be proud

There is absolutely *nothing* wrong with wanting to act democratically. You may not like the results, but the system simply ceases to be a Democracy if your logic prevails. Think about what you are trying to intimidate people into doing?

[mkultra]

104. actually, what he is doing is part of democracy

and you are guilty of exactly what you are claiming by trying to get him to accept your point of view through bully tactics.

[Dokkie]

48. How about

the army quit using depeleted uranium rounds while they search for a solution in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are committing genocide over there and seriously I can understand why an Afghani/Arab American youth would want to kill "innocent" civilian over here. We must stop the wars now if only for the sake of the Iraqi and Afghani civilians who are suffering under our occupation.

[Bluzmann57]

11. Egomania?

I don't know of any other answer.

[namahage]

12. Obviously the 78% number is padded with young people,

who can't be counted on as a base, and minorities, who will likely vote for Obama because he's a minority.

Oh, wait.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeanpalmer]

15. If he were really getting the job done

you wouldn't see only 78% supporting and 19% against. Having 19% of your own party against you reprersents a major screwup. And when you factor in the independents who have turned against him, he's in deep trouble. His only salvation will be if the Repubs nominate a similar screwup. Tax cuts for the rich, cutting SS, and escalating a war don't cut it.

[Uzybone]

41. you must not know what the numbers for Clinton where at this point

you wish he were in deep trouble.

Sorry but we won't be electing a GOPer in 2012.

[Andy823]

80. Nah

The 19% are padded with "teabaggers" claiming to be democrats! It happens a lot these days!

[Recovered Repug]

18. Do many of the 19% think they're the base,

or do many of the 19% HERE think they're the base?

[DirkGently]

21. The "bandwagon" flavor of broadside vs Obama's critics is one of many based on false premises.

[WI_DEM]

22. I would say that more conservative dems than liberal dems oppose Obama in that 19%

[treestar]

23. I don't know. They seem to feel entitled due to being "right"

but at the same time not to understand the system. It seems to be made up of those who think the Presidency is all powerful.

[ClassWarrior]

26. And you feel entitled due to being wrong?

:shrug:

NGU.

[treestar]

29. that just does not follow

They are a minority that feel entitled to boss the rest of us around, demand that we give them what they want. It's very odd coming from the left, but they think of themselves as a sort of royalty.

[ClassWarrior]

30. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

People make up their own demons, I guess.

NGU.

[treestar]

31. Er, no, you haven't been reading DU for the past 8 or so months?

How many posts have there been demanding a public option, demanding a primary because the Senate would not give the President and the House a public option, screaming about the change they were expecting, why hasn't it been delivered already, and demanding someone else run (usually suggesting candidates who will not do it and have said so). Why haven't the wars ended? why isn't Gitmo closed? why isn't this done, why hasn't that been done already?

Implying they would not vote in the midterms because they were not inspired enough. Claiming they are the only ones who knock on doors and get out the vote and that they weren't going to do it for Obama any more, weren't going to donate to the campaign any more, and sneered at the idea that if they were indeed so powerful, they were enabling Republicans. Then refusing to take responsibility for the new R House when it happened, suddenly becoming a sniveling and pathetic powerless minority?

[ClassWarrior]

32. What makes you think that people expressing their heartfelt desires for their nation...

...is screaming at you?

:crazy:

NGU.

[treestar]

33. Because they were demanding things that the system was not

passing, but blaming our elected representatives?

[ClassWarrior]

59. If that's true, then why not simply correct them instead of demonize them?

How do you see a difference of opinion as screaming or any other kind of assault on you?

NGU.

[frylock]

51. classic projection

[mkultra]

105. The Royal Left? That about sums it up.

The minority who are outraged that they don't get to be in charge. Thank god for democracy.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

135. Sounded like you were describing the Repugs

I don't think of myself as royalty, just someone who believes that a little pressure exerted over a long time can cause change (e.g., universal healthcare) whereas passively accepting the status quo results in no change at all.

“We must remember that one determined person can make a significant difference, and that a small group of determined people can change the course of history.” Sonia Johnson

[Go2Peace]

40. No, they seem to BELIEVE in fucking Democracy! Enough of this intimidation

I know we live in a time where people are confused about what Democracy actually is. But people expressing preferences and wanting challenges both intraparty and extraparty is DEMOCRACY. Nothing "wrong" with it.

What there is something seriously "wrong" with, is people trying to intimidate others and them feel like their is something wrong with expressing democratic principles

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fearless]

89. +1

[craigmatic]

35. the 19% are real progressives who believe in principle over power.

[Go2Peace]

42. and notice nobody is talking about how that number has GROWN dramatically?

[Uzybone]

44. if grown means reduced then you are correct

"The poll finds that while many Democrats were upset with Mr. Obama over his tax-cut compromise, nearly 78 percent of Democrats in the poll say they want Mr. Obama as their nominee in 2012. Only 19 percent of Democrats would prefer someone else, the LOWEST rating on that statistic since March."

[mkultra]

106. or who believe in power despite lack of majority

[Phx_Dem]

37. Great question. I have always wondered about that myself.

Unless by "base," they actually mean the bottom. In which case, I might agree with them.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. Much to the disappointment of many liberal detractors on DU who bash the president,

most liberals outside of DU and the bloggosphere support the president. That's why his numbers among self-identified liberals are still incredibly high.

[frylock]

52. self-identified liberals

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

54. Yes, Self-identified liberals! Are you going to question whether they are truly liberals now?

That would be incredibly arrogant to do so.

[frylock]

55. IMHO too many people think "liberal" means not republican

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

57. Too many people who don't think *exactly* as you do? Or, people that

support the president who happen to be liberal are no longer liberal in your eyes?

[frylock]

60. no, too many people that don't *espouse* traditional liberal views..

yet still call themselves "liberal." but thanks for making this about me, sport.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

63. What are "traditional liberal values," sport?

[frylock]

64. how about war?

traditionally, liberals don't support imperialistic endeavors. liberals also traditionally support programs that help people over corporations. most liberals i know are also for transparency in government.

[Egnever]

75. Obama is working on both

Whats your beef? The Iraq war is winding down and while afghanistan wound up he always said that was what he would do. He also has a withdrawal date set to end it. Admittedly it remains to be seen how firm that date is but he is one man and he is trying despite your ridiculous proclamations.

As far as transparency goes that is also being worked on. Heres an article from March on what is being done to improve government transparency by this administration.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/us/politics/15open.html

Again admittedly they have a long way to go but they are trying to do it and your refusal to admit it and proclaim in fact that they aren't just flies in the face of the facts.

Perhaps you should listen less to the naysayers.

[Dawgs]

142. So as long as he said he needed to escalate war, and then did it, that means he's a liberal?

Nice.

[ClassWarrior]

68. Don't you know, honey pie?

:eyes:

NGU.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

76. I guess not. DU has all the answers. n/t

[ClassWarrior]

82. If you don't like the answers...

...I'm sure there are other sites that cater to your values.

NGU.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

87. I don't give a shit about the answers, really. I already know what I believe

and I have faith in that. I don't need a message board for that. I do, however, enjoy the conversation.

[mkultra]

107. these are the "true" self-identified liberals

more true than the other true ones. They are the ones. The great ones. The root of all liberalism. Any other liberal is not a liberal at all.

:sarcasm:

[ClassWarrior]

113. Enemies are more satisfyingly evil when we make them up in our own heads, aren't they?

:nosarcasm:

NGU.

[mkultra]

114. And easier to do when we try to claim purity of thought

As long as one can find a place where they can draw the line of right and wrong brightly, they can then proceed to create those phantom enemies. Its a mental disease much like many forms of religion that allows a sort of blissful ignorance to perpetuate.

[ClassWarrior]

117. Show me a link. Prove to me that's not exactly what you're doing.

NGU.

[mkultra]

121. Since i support the compromises simply by nature

of the gained good with full knowledge that some steps where backwards, i am by definition not participating in said behavior. The fundamentalism that infects these is the same that effects the religious right. Ideas and hard lines while turning a blind eye to who gets hurt and what is actually possible. This beer fueled sports drunk media culture turns the week minded into fools who believe that greatness is founded on uncompromising behavior while they simultaneously must acknowledge that everything of any worth in the world was created through compromise and incremental progress.

[JoePhilly]

146. Evangelical Fundementalist Liberals!!!!

If you deviate from the "true liberalism" ... its off to the lake of fire with you!!!!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[great white snark]

65. Yes, 78%. Enjoy your stay.

May it be short.

[namahage]

66. And it must be noted that those 78% are, to a person,

white Southerners aged 50 and over. Clearly a demographic Obama has always had in the bag.

One wonders what the numbers might have been if there had been young, non-white, non-Southern people counted in the poll.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

70. Considering that those numbers were lower for Clinton at this point

in his Presidency, I'm not going to have any trouble sleeping tonight.

[crim son]

72. I'd be interested to know what proportion of each set of liberals

worked actively to get Obama elected. Furthermore I'd be interested to see what proportion of each group can explain what's going down with respect to HCR, the extension of the shrub's tax cuts, the war in Afghanistan, the level of uninsured and the unemployment level, etc. etc. etc. I have my guess as to who is more likely to have a clue what's going on but I could be wrong. Until then, I'm perfectly comfortable being part of the minority and considering myself a part of the Democratic base.

[tekisui]

79. It doesn't matter what they call themselves or what you call them.

What matters is how many volunteer, donate and vote. That is where we will see how much of Obama's base remains.

[Forkboy]

81. I 'd feel safer if I didn't hear this exact same argument in '99.

[Fearless]

88. I love how we always implode when in power... it is something that never changes...

:banghead:


Is it a surprise that 19% of the most liberal members of the party are unsatisfied with his performance so far? Is it really? These are people who believe that single payer is not a bargaining chip, nor DOMA, nor ENDA, nor Guantanamo closing, nor the ending of two wars, nor the protection of Social Security, nor the ending of tax cuts for the wealthy. If that is your belief, as it is, by your number, for 19% of Democrats or whatever the number may be, then is it a surprise that they want to vote for someone else in the primary?

Personally, I ask a few questions:

1. Is it right that 59 million people can't get proper health care because they can't afford it?

2. Is it right that the government will not recognize an estimated 10-15 MILLION Americans who could get married simply because of who they want to marry?

3. Is it right that employers are allowed to discriminate against workers based on inherent qualities the workers are born with and cannot change?

4. Is it right that we detain human beings without trial for indefinite periods of time and without recognition of their continued existence?

5. Is it right that we mortgage the future of this nation for the sake of an ideological war and/or our oil addiction?

6. Is it right to let companies rob hard working Americans of their stability in retirement to pad their bottom line and line the pockets of big business executives?

7. Is it right that the wealthy are allowed to raise their comfort of living while those who cannot or are barely reaching a maintainable standard of living are not allowed such an opportunity?

My answer for each of these questions is thus: None of these conditions is tolerable and EACH of these conditions appear fodder for compromise with Republicans under the current administration. This I will NEVER stand for. This I will NEVER support. And no candidate in 2012 who can't guarantee that EVERY one of these issues is NOT up for debate will get my vote. Period.

[AtomicKitten]

90. Because the 19% are blustery and spiky, like puffer fish.

[Imajika]

94. Many of the people that oppose...

..President Obama here on DU for not being progressive enough really aren't part of the Democratic base. They may vote that way because they have nowhere else to go and understand the stupidity of voting 3rd party - but many of these people are really Greens, Socialists, Democratic Socialists, etc, etc.

The US is pretty much just not a progressive nation. Its people tend to be center to center right on most issues. Progressives that are further to the left than the Democratic Party will ever really be are bound to feel angry much of the time - they have no home and are forced to vote for a marginally center left party (the US Democratic Party) because our 2 party system mostly prevents much else.

The Democratic party then caters to this group, particularly during their primaries, to capture the energy these people bring. This ends up this groups hopes up and they start to believe the Democratic candidates agree with them, only to see these newly minted nominees run to the center in the general election or move their to prop up their polling numbers once elected.

It's a viscous cycle. I am sure there are many on the right who go through the same ordeal. The difference for now is those people on the right are actually doing something about it by creating a party (TEA Party) and running its candidates within the framework of the existing Republican party in an effort to take it over. Eventually our Greens, Socialists, Democratic Socialists, etc, may do the same thing.

[mmonk]

98. The 19% are the ones that know he isn't liberal?

[mkultra]

108. The 19% will have their way or they will tear us apart

Its really that simple.

[TheKentuckian]

116. Shouldn't spend most of our time lying about common goals and principles to wrangle votes

If all we want to be is a less bigoted variant of the Republicans then we strongly deserve to be torn apart since we do great harm to the people with these absurd and failed economic policies and counter- constitutional ideas on civil liberties as well as the insatiable need for empire.

Good, I sez. Embrace the madness or finally wake up and reject it.

[mkultra]

120. Or reject totalitarian binary thinking

which claims that all progress must be had at once or none at all. Only those who fail to embrace the reality of their circumstances will fail. I reject your madness and bid you good luck in your journey as the voluntarily marginalized.

[hulka38]

115. I hope these threads continue and multiply through 2012.

I'm curious to see how the DLC does without support from the left.

[treestar]

129. When Obama wins anyway

At least we won't have to hear about how much he owes the "base."

[Sherman A1]

128. I don't claim to be the party base

I claim to be a liberal democrat that wants progress (progressive). I have found that The President seems to not support the issues (EFCA, Repeal of Tax Cuts for the Wealthy, etc) I find important, hence I no longer support him.

It's pretty simple, but I represent and speak for me and me alone. I don't suggest that I speak for anyone other than me.

[treestar]

130. He was not for the tax cuts for the rich

He said as much - he did it to get the other parts of the bill.

Explain how he does not support EFCA.

[jeanpalmer]

131. I'm not upset with him just for the tax cuts

which increased the deficit from $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion, while he's talking austerity (does he even know what he's saying?). It's his wars which are raping the American people and are driving them into poverty. It's his failure to deal with the jobs issue. While cozying up to big business and trying to emulate another failure, Ronald Reagan. You have to ask, does he even know what he's doing? I don't think he does. He's just taking up space.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MasonJar]

132. His Base?

Obama is a centrist of the worst kind. That is, for the election to beat Hillary he purported liberal views he did not really espouse. As he knows, the liberals are stuck. However, he may be wrong. Who knows?

[Dawgs]

143. Americans, and most Democrats, are dumb.

That 78% number should be much lower.

[Skittles]

149. yup

[BzaDem]

151. Have you ever considered that instead of the problem being with everyone else's viwes, the problem

might be with your views?

Both parties have tiny groups that are always unsatisfied with their respective nominee's ideological purity. This is nothing new, and has defined our system since its inception.

[Dawgs]

152. I know what makes a real Democrat.

Obama isn't even close.

[Blue-Jay]

145. Sure, but how do True Scotsmen feel about Obama?

[krawhitham]

147. because we eat our own

and the GOP rally behind their guy no matter how bad that person is (Bush II)

[Skittles]

150. expectations have been very much lowered

[zipplewrath]

153. Reagan Democrats

Because the "base" are basically people who won't vote for a challenger. Ronald Reagan got elected by "Reagan democrats", people who registered and identified as democrats, but voted for Reagan. They still exist. And with huge numbers of moderate republicans voting democratic, their numbers are increasing. The DLC is full of them. Heck, the south is littered with people registered as democrats, and voting republican quite often.

Do we really want to decide that these folks are the "base" of the party? Base doesn't mean "majority".