Why should we respect Obama if Obama doesn't respect us?

[DaveofCali]

This Op-Ed from the Washington Post said it well. Obama's strategy all along has been to use the narrative: "Adult in Chief" and basically treat us like he treats the Right Wing: make the left look like extremists and unreasonable children, and thus he goes and talks us down like he's smarter and more mature. He paints the left as badly or worse than Bill Clinton.

So if Obama's strategy is to treat us badly for political gain, why should we respect him? Just because we have no other choice? Obama's been playing politics all along, and has been using triangulation all along (dressed up differently as "pragmatism".)

[opihimoimoi]

1. What??? He has been the best of the REST FOR 2 YEARS

did a whole bunch for the Nation....way better that Palin/McCane

[ClassWarrior]

13. That's entirely true. But so's the OP's point. He's belittled a large section...

...of the people who put him in office.

NGU.

[Kaleva]

100. He's belittled a small section of the people who put him in office.

[ClassWarrior]

106. He's belittled a small section of the people who voted for him. But a large section...

...of the people who volunteered to help put him in office.

NGU.

[Kaleva]

113. I think that is based more on wishful thnking then actual fact.

I've never understood why progressives and supposedly "true" Democrats don't put their time, effort and money behind a candidate more to their liking; such as Kucinich or Dean. Especially when the claim is made that they are instrumental in a candidate's victory. Why settle for the more mainstream candidates like Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, Kerry, Carter and Obama?

[ClassWarrior]

114. You think? I know. Obama, more than any other candidate...

...in recent memory, inspired a lot of strongly progressive people to support him. In the trenches. On the phone and at the doors. I saw it with my own two eyes, and I've seen quite a few national elections up close.

NGU.

[Kaleva]

115. You can't take what you saw and apply it nationwide.

Why didn't candidates like Kucinich, Jackson, and Dean inspire?

[ClassWarrior]

116. Yes I can, because I know activists nationwide and saw the same thing.

:shrug:

And Kucinich, Jackson and Dean did inspire. Where were you?

The ranks of local Dem organizations across the nation are teeming with former Deaniacs. This I've also seen firsthand.

NGU.

[Kaleva]

117. I saw alot of Deaniacs abandon Dean in favor of Kerry

Very early on in the 2004 primary, the Howard Dean forum was a happening place. Then Iowa, New Hampshire followed by a string of defeats in other early primaries really took their toll. People who had vowed just a few weeks earlier that it was Dean or no one left. Many just disappeared while others said they were switching their support to Kerry or to Edwards. By the time Dean made his last stand in Wisconsin, the forum was a shadow of its former self. Fund raising dried up and the Dean campaign was operating on a shoe string budget by the time of the Wisconsin primary.

Not long ago, someone posted a link to an old poll here at DU which was originally posted in very late 2007. Kucinich was the favorite by a very wide margin and only a few supported Obama. However, that enthusiasm for Kucinich here didn't translate to donations, volunteers and votes in the actual primary and he withdrew in January.

Jackson in 1988 is a more interesting case as he did win a number of primaries and caucuses. But that was mostly because he got about 90% of the black vote which allowed him to almost sweep the deep South, come within a whisker of winning North Carolina and he probably would have won Illinois too had Simon not been in the race. But the liberal base went for the more mainstream candidate Dukakis and Jackson didn't do that well in states that didn't have a large black population.

On a side note, I recall the few remaining Deaniacs at the forum trying to keep up the enthusiasm even after Dean dropped out. It was hoped that Dean could still win a number of delegates in the remaining primaries and thus have a voice in the convention. It was doable as Kerry had locked up the nomination, interest and voter turnout dropped and there were a number of smaller Western states were Dean could have overcome Kerry's vote total had their been a concentrated get out the vote effort on the part of the Dean supporters. But the enthusiasm was no longer there and it fizzled.

[ClassWarrior]

124. Thank you for proving my point.

That it was the vast majority of the Deaniacs and the Kooch-heads and the Jacksonites and many, many Greens who put Obama in office.

And by the way, it's not "abandoning." It's called supporting the nominee.

(Like shooting fish in a barrel.) :rofl:

NGU.

[Kaleva]

129. Your timeline is way off

"And by the way, it's not "abandoning." It's called supporting the nominee."

2/17/04- Kerry wins in Wisconsin- Edwards finishes second.

2/18/04 Dean Withdraws

3/2/04 Kerry sweeps Super Tuesday nomination race effectively ends

7/22/04 Kucinich withdraws

You'll note that Dean's campaign had already gone bellyup before Kerry became the presumptive nominee. You'll also note that a majority of Deaniacs didn't go to Kucinich but to Kerry who they had been calling "Bush-Lite" not long before.

[derby378]

131. I stayed with Dean in 2004 and caucused for him

Yeah, it cost me a trip to the state convention, but I believe in the old adage "dance with whut brung ya."

I am a proud Democrat, and Howard Dean played a big part in me becoming one.

[Recursion]

135. Your mileage may vary; I was a moderate among moderates

And some of the other volunteers were registered Republicans. That may have to do with locations; I was in rural PA.

[Exilednight]

144. We probably would if all primaries were held on the same day. This is

the one flaw I see with our primary system. Many candidates are pushed out before super-tuesday.

[texshelters]

151. Point is, why turn off supporters at all if you don't have to?

Quibble about the impact of progressives if you want, but did he and his White House really want to piss off his supporters to pander to his detractors?

It's idiotic, regardless of the perceived influence progressives have. And yes, progressives did vote for him and person phone banks and walk for his election and send money to his campaoign. Can he really afford to lose our support for his agenda or his election?

I certainly won't be calling on his behalf next time. Anyone else?

Peace,
Tex Shelters
http://texshelters.wordpress.com/

[Jakes Progress]

148. He'll have to win the next election with corporate money.

Many here don't get it. I led a huge group of volunteers during the '08 elections. They were fired up. Almost none showed up for the mid-terms. Those I know and see regularly don't plan on busting their hump next time like they did in '08. People here want to get all huffy about that and claim that those who sit on their volunteerism in 2010 will be the reason the republicans are elected. That's not how I see it. It won't be those guys that get republicans elected; it will be this administration that got republicans elected. If the administration thinks they can spit on people and then expect their undying loyalty they are so dumb they might even think they will get republicans to like them.

Like I said, maybe they figured this all along, and that's why they court the corporate money.

[texshelters]

152. Yep, and Obama got more from large donors than small donors

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/11/obama-money.html

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Exilednight]

143. Saying he did better than McCain is like saying

I have an awesome vertical leap compared to your two year-old.

[prolesunited]

2. OMG! A politician acts like a politician

Who woulda thunk?

[RandomThoughts]

3. Thats from marketers.

There is a concept, treat people like children they will act like children, And a concept that many people are looking for a father figure in a person.

I would guess that is political consultants advice, although he might or might not believe in it, it is a very common thing to get support of a person over a concept or ideal, by using 'father or mother' since there are strong attachments in that macro.

It is basically trying to move a feeling you have for mother or father to someone else. You see that in many places.

[treestar]

25. It's Obama's detractors here who are forever demanding a "leader"

How ironic.

[ClassWarrior]

126. No, leadership. But then, subtlety and nuance...

...are apparently lost on you.

For what it's worth, it's a lot of his supporters - as well as detractors - who are demanding it.

NGU.

[Arkana]

138. Subtlety and nuance are lost on US?

We're not the ones demanding Obama bow and scrape to 15% of the population. He's the President of the United States, not the President of the People Who Voted For Him.

[Exilednight]

145. The people who voted for him did so because

he put forward ideas that they wanted to see him act upon.

If it weren't for the 15%, I doubt we would of seen the repeal of DADT.

Many people on this very website like to say that he's the smartest guy in the room, but it's easy to be the smartest guy in the room when you surround yourself with the idiots that put us in this mess in the first place.

If Obama wanted to really upset the status quo and bring in people who know what they are talking about, then he would bring in Brooklsley Born and nominate her as Fed chairwoman when Ben's term is up. Or better yet, have her replace Geithner, but you know, the non-corporate friendly Obama will keep appointing the people who put us in this mess in the first place.

[JVS]

4. We should distance ourselves from Obama because he's not doing a very good job.

[Aleric]

11. +1

[Ikonoklast]

40. Count me out of your 'we'.

If you can't take being treated like an adult, then you'll really dislike the alternative.

[JVS]

43. I don't think you were at risk of that. And if this being treated like an adult is what you call...

the shit we've been dealt, then the best we can do is pull the other adults down into the muck too so that they get their share.

[Exilednight]

146. Adults keep their promises. Let me know when Obama starts acting like an adult. n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

158. Must be a mouse in his/her pocket.

[Whisp]

97. go the distance then and see ya!

we don't need ya!

[Arkana]

139. I don't know who "we" is, but I know I'm not part of it.

[FrenchieCat]

5. I think Pres. Obama has treated us like adults,

even when some of us have acted like children....which is what
you are talking about.

If you can think of one moment when this President has treated us like children,
please cite it.

As for WAPO Op-eds? I'm not impressed......cause they simply act like
jury, judge and executioner.....as does most of the media, and that's a strategy
that is obvious you recommend.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. +10000!

:hi:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[FrenchieCat]

50. When you find that quote of mine, let me know.....

better yet, post a link here....that way we can laugh together at an actual link
with the quote, as opposed to you laughing alone to your own recollections.

As for maturity; I don't conveniently forget how government truly works
whenever I don't get what I want from it, and instead blame just one man,
while ignoring those who really are the opponents of any and all that I would
prefer for this country.

Plus I realize that progress takes ongoing hard work from as many in our citizenry as possible...
and that strong united action to help progress along is much more efficient, effective and
constructive than one simply posting discontent and disgust on a message board constantly,
while omitting the positives that have been achieved all along.....

Considering how remarkably difficult getting anything done truly is when put into context
of having to work against a media that slants Republican in its tone and messaging, as well
as having to step over those who point the finger and want us to believe that in doing this,
they've done something good, when we all should be analytical politically speaking to realize
that in politics, if you aren't helping one side, than the other side benefits.

I believe that probably makes me more mature,
politically-wise than many have demonstrated over the past two years.

[Name removed]

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[vduhr]

123. Well said!!!!

+infinity!

[creon]

141. I agree

It is very difficult to get results in Washington. Especially in this political climate, which is seriously hyperventilating.

The disorganization and indiscipline that is endemic to the Democratic Party does not help. (It has always been that way, though)

[Capn Sunshine]

78. The WAPO Opeds are typical of the snowblind beltway media

Meanwhile, the President has huge support all across the spectrum. With the exception of this minority sliver of priviledged folk who think they make up the base, when they do not.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[stray cat]

6. Why do the "us" deserve respect? Do we respect the tea par tiers?

[Arkana]

7. Huh, I consider myself part of "the left"

and I appreciate being talked to by a guy who knows the meaning of nuance. You know, seeing as how we didn't have that for eight years with the black and white Cowboy.

[WI_DEM]

8. speak for yourself, I think that President Obama treats "us" just fine

and I'm pleased, with some disappointments, with how he has conducted his job as president.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Well your 'us' of course does not include 'those people'

I'm one of 'those people' the ones the President says are not 'sanctified by God' whatever that nonsense is supposed to mean in civil law. He treats my us as second class citizens, with disdain and a huge does of his theological fantasia about how his kind are special and get rights that others must never have. Michael Vick should have all rights, but teh gay should never, ever have equality because God says so. Obama used McClurkin and Walker and others to slander gay people. And he opposes our basic equality, claims our families are not really families. Imposes laws upon us which cause us to pay more for services your sort get for less.
Whatever. The Vick Community is Sanctified. I get it. Love is not to be tolerated. Torture is a Sacrament. God is in the mix.
Amen.

[phleshdef]

9. He is smarter... and more mature.

If the fringe division of the left feels disrespected, it should be very proud. It earned it.

[Aleric]

12. England had a similar view of its colonies once upon a time.

Then don't bitch when the fringe "costs" you another election

like in 2000

and 2004

and 2010

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

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[niceypoo]

20. Define 'fringe division'

[impik]

14. Who is we?

You are no more than 5%.

[BklnDem75]

15. Speak for yourself

There's no we and there's no us. There's those who want to be victims and then there's everyone else.

[Pholus]

16. Well if the chess game is all it's cracked up to be the SOTU will be the place I change my mind.

Sadly, I'm a pessimist. My prediction is that the themes will be shared sacrifice and bipartisanship but as you start going into the details you'll find that we the 98% sacrifice more proportionally than the 2% just like always.

And, like trading 24 months of a budget busting tax cut extension for 13 months of UI we will call it a big victory.

And we will still be called DFH's for pointing out that it isn't that great a deal.

Please, let me be wrong about ALL OF that.

Edit: Didn't want the last line to look like it ONLY applied to the DFH part

[Kweli4Real]

104. Why do people insist on closing their eyes to the parts that ...

don't support their meme?

You commented "like trading 24 months of a budget busting tax cut extension for 13 months of UI we will call it a big victory."

If you were honest, you would also include: maintaining the current tax structure and rates for the middle and working classes, START, and DADT, in that trade ... all of which benefit all of america.

And yes, you will no doubt hear more about shared sacrifice and bipartisanship.

[Pholus]

112. I close my eyes because of the train wreck that is obviously approaching.

I'd try to learn from you, but when you start with insinuation I tend to find there is little of substance to follow.

Happy new year.

[Kweli4Real]

127. Okay

How about if I just said that PRESIDENT Obama didn't trade 24 months of a budget busting tax cut extension for 13 months of UI, but the trade also included: maintaining the current tax structure and rates for the middle and working classes, START, and DADT, in that trade ... all of which benefit all of america.

And yes that IS a big fucking victory, especially for those directly benefited.

[Raine1967]

17. I disagree with Serwer on this.

I'd also like to point out that this comment was part of a larger point he was making to Greg Sargent. This wasn't really an Op-Ed was it?

I don't know who this *WE* is you speak of, but I know an awful lot of people who are longing for the way Dubya talked to Americans. I am not one of them. Obama does NOT paint the left badly or worse than Clinton.

This was also from December 9 -- The op makes it sound like it an op ed in WaPo today -- it is neither.

[Raine1967]

18. Here is where Serwer is being misleading(as well as the OP, IMO)

This is what Obama said: “If you’re starting from scratch,” he says, “then a single-payer system”—a government-managed system like Canada’s, which disconnects health insurance from employment—“would probably make sense. But we’ve got all these legacy systems in place, and managing the transition, as well as adjusting the culture to a different system, would be difficult to pull off. So we may need a system that’s not so disruptive that people feel like suddenly what they’ve known for most of their lives is thrown by the wayside.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar#ixzz19cHmAUrs

THAT was Adam's point. It was NEVER that Obama doesn't respect the left and tries to make them look like extremists. It's a false equivalency you have going on in your OP.

[Sheepshank]

19. I suppose if you really buy what you wrote

you could moon Obama and show him just how much disrespect he has shown towards you!

Please do it while the cameras are rolling, and you'll be sure to get your 15 min of fame and respect....ya think? Is that that they type of disrespect you mean?

Othersise I really don't understand. Obama is one of the most respectful people I know. He may not agree with your view point, and you many not agree with his, but he converses to the masses on an intellectual level, that I belive shows boundless respect to everyones' intelligence.

[treestar]

24. And Merle Haggard said he was a humble person

Anyone who meets the President is always impressed.

Even Rachel quit dissing him after she was invited to the WH!

[treestar]

21. He respects us

He just has a parental sort of demeanor, that's all. He respects us.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Proof please?

Links? Or articles? Something?

NGU.

[treestar]

32. It's my opinion

Based on the things he says.

Your "proof" he does not respect us in invalid because it's just foot stomping the he doesn't listen to each progressive personally and carry out their orders.

[Hello_Kitty]

51. Please answer my question

What centrist and conservative economic positions are popular with voters?

[Recursion]

136. low taxes and low deficits (nt)

[ClassWarrior]

57. Oh, there's plenty of proof that he doesn't respect us, but some can't hear it...

...because of the sound of their own feet stomping.

NGU.

[treestar]

109. that "proof" consists of straining everything through a sieve

meant to cut out all good intent and all contrary information. The conclusions that far left bases this on are jumped to or uncalled for in most instances. Even one who does not support Obama at all could see it.

[ClassWarrior]

125. Hmmm... You say you're not "left," yet you profess to know what the left thinks. And you claim...`

...to know what "one who does not support Obama" can see.

Interesting...

NGU.

[Name removed]

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[AtomicKitten]

23. Well that's certainly a puerile way to look at things. nt

[Skittles]

27. I agree

I do not feel like he is looking out for me; not at all

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[vaberella]

34. Lalalala...whatever. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

35. So the President is supposed to "man up" and "be a leader"

While he has to take time out to reassure a portion of his so-called "base" of what? Whatever he's asked to do won't be enough for someone.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[great white snark]

37. Is that why he has so much support from the Republicans?

:eyes:

[CakeGrrl]

38. Exactly. Show me some proof of this Republican "support". n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

41. Yes, let's pretend the dramatic surge to the right in the GOP hasn't happened.

Anything to the left of Mussolini is a commie to them.

[ProSense]

63. The GOP began moving hard right long before the President was elected.

From Rove to the Koch Brothers' 2006 meeting to the 2008 campaign, the shift began long before Obama took office.

Still, what does the GOP moving right have to do with Obama?

It's evident that the RW are vehemently opposed to his policies. If progressive Democrats can agree with the President on issues like health care reform, where does the Mussolini analogy fit in beyond a characterization of the RW?

[Hello_Kitty]

67. I was responding to a post asking why Republicans don't love Pres. Obama

Even though he's embraced what were previously Republican ideas. Like the HCR that just passed.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. Perhaps you hadn't noticed that moderate Republicans have been purged from the party?

Where have you been?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[CakeGrrl]

44. That does not constitute "Republican support".

Of course they're going to be happy about whatever they get on the tax deal in the short term.

If you think aside from that, they think the President is their kind of guy, think again. And don't think the President is unaware of that, unlike some here who think he's simpleminded enough to believe he could ever win them over.

And if people think any Dem president can ride a white horse through Washington and wave away all the bureaucracy and corruption without playing an iota of politics, they're in Dreamworld.

[JVS]

46. "If you think aside from that, they think the President is their kind of guy, think again."

Turn that around. Why should people on the left think that he's our kind of guy when he so determinedly makes a point of trashing us.

I don't need him.

[CakeGrrl]

53. Sorry, but not every liberal feels "trashed" and victimized and disrespected.

Including yours truly.

I know who the real enemy is, and it isn't the man in the White House.

Your mileage obviously varies, but come the General Election 2012, I know I'm not going to do anything to help Republicans take over the WH.

[JVS]

48. "unlike some here who think he's simpleminded enough to believe he could ever win them over."

If he knows better, why does he keep pitching woo to them?

[CakeGrrl]

52. Maybe because they sit in Congress and cast votes.

Why are people not getting this? You can't govern in some utopian Progressive vacuum.

Anyone who thinks they could catapult a Progressive hero to Washington to magically implement everything exactly the way Progressives want isn't thinking realistically.

[JVS]

55. If a moron like George W Bush was able to impose his will, then I expect the same...

if not better from Obama as far as pushing a correction to the Bush agenda. Instead we have half-measures and continuations of failed policies.

[ProSense]

60. You wanted him to be like the moron Bush?

You wanted him to rely on the unitary executive, act in secrecy, ignore Congress and the Constitution, and reject all calls for transparency?

Wouldn't that lead to people accusing him of being just like Bush and slamming him for ignoring the Constitution and transparency?

Despite being the most transparent administration ever, this President is accused of these thing to some degree, but how would being like Bush be better?

[JVS]

49. And on a final note, I have no problem with playing politics, but he's not good at playing.

If I had wanted Bob Dole's HCR, I'd have voted for Bob Dole.

[jenmito]

47. You mean like repealing DADT?

:eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

58. Congress had nothing to do with that?

If DADT is entirely President Obama's success then the DREAM Act is entirely his failure, right jenmito?

:eyes:

[jenmito]

59. He made phone calls to Senators up to the time of the vote. It's amazing that

a supposed Dem. can't give him credit where credit is due, Hello_Kitty. You think a Repub. would try to repeal DADT? :eyes:

Remember, before you moved the goalpost, I was replying to this: "Oh I think he's being a leader and acting very decisively Carrying out a moderate Republican agenda."

[Hello_Kitty]

62. Okay, credit where credit is due on DADT.

And on the DREAM Act, blame where it's due. That was just as important as DADT and seems to have been forgotten.

[jenmito]

64. WOW! So do you also admit a Repub. president would NOT have tried to get DADT

repealed? And yes, he failed to get the DREAM Act passed, but he TRIED and will not give up.

[Hello_Kitty]

66. A moderate Republican one might have.

But they've been purged from the party. Besides, a large percentage of Republican voters polled supported repealing DADT as did the majority of independents. It's not really a liberal position anymore.

[Name removed]

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[Hello_Kitty]

70. I'm just putting the accomplishment in perspective.

By your own admission it got some GOP votes and was supported by the majority of Americans. It's a great thing, truly. I was in the military both pre and post DADT. I know what a disaster DADT was. But don't pretend it was some momentous herculean feat by President Obama against strong opposition. I mean, really, who was the main opponent? Crankypants McCain? GMAB. This was definitely not on a par with LBJ and the Civil Rights Act. Obama had literally nothing to lose by repealing DADT. Which is why the contrast with the DREAM Act is important. He pledged to sign it into law. Big whoop. Then he said we'll revisit it next session. Yeah, right. There is no evidence that he made a single phone call to any of the 5 Democratic Senators who voted against cloture. Why was he MIA on it?


And I thought the tax cuts for the rich were the price we had to pay for UI extension and the other (supposedly) progressive things in the tax compromise. I thought the tax bill was a joint effort between the President and Republicans in Congress.

[jenmito]

71. EVERYONE thought it was dead. If you don't remember,

just search this site or transcripts of Rachel Maddow's show among all the others.

No-the passage of the tax cut bill (including tax cuts for the rich) had to be done before any other legislation would be considered/passed.

[Hello_Kitty]

73. Everyone thought what was dead? DADT repeal or DREAM? Or both?

[jenmito]

77. I'm talking about DADT repeal, obviously, since it PASSED.

[Hello_Kitty]

79. I was just messing with you. I knew you weren't talking about DREAM

Because that was a big steaming cup of fail on the part of the President.

[jenmito]

81. Unlike the historic DADT repeal.

[Hello_Kitty]

82. Tell all the DREAM Act kids here in AZ about it.

Tell them how they should take comfort in DADT being repealed.

[jenmito]

83. They SHOULDN'T. And Obama is still gonna try to get the DREAM Act passed.

Unlike a Repub. president would.

[Hello_Kitty]

84. Yeah, that'll happen with new GOP House.

The Pres. will mention it in a few speeches though, I'm sure.

[jenmito]

85. And DADT repeal was dead. n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

87. And the DREAM Act failed in the lame duck session

It does not have a chance again until at least 2013.

[jenmito]

88. Immigration reform has a chance...

and things in the DREAM Act can be included in that legislation.

[Hello_Kitty]

89. Not with a GOP led House it's not.

What Republican reps are going to vote for it? And don't forget there will be Dems who vote against it.

[jenmito]

90. Yes it is...

they'll realize they need some of the Hispanic vote in '12.

[Hello_Kitty]

91. Which ones will realize that?

Name names. Because from the looks of the GOP delegation that just got elected I don't think they're too concerned about the Hispanic vote. What Republican would even introduce legislation in the House for immigration reform, particularly any kind that might include (horror of horrors!) any form of amnesty?

[jenmito]

93. Marco Rubio would probably talk to Boehner and

stress the importance of the Hispanic vote.

[Hello_Kitty]

94. They're not going to piss off the wingnut base to court Hispanics.

That's one of the main reasons immigration reform failed in 2006.

[jenmito]

95. The teabaggers love Rubio and I bet he'll have influence in the congress.

They'll do anything to try to beat Obama in '12.

[Hello_Kitty]

99. So I googled Marco Rubio and immigration and here's what popped up.

And it can't be stated enough that Rubio's new stance on immigration ends, probably for all time, the possibility that he can be the right's fishing lure to reel in Hispanic votes in 2012. Nearly seven in ten Hispanic-Americans are of Mexican origin, and the vast majority (just like the majority of all Americans, including Republicans) favor the "path to citizenship" that Rubio now stringently opposes. Thanks for playing, Mr. Rubio.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/2010/05/07/marco_rubio_arizona_immigration_open2010

Rubio is perfectly willing to sacrifice whatever "principle" he has to his political aspirations.

[jenmito]

105. That's good to know about Rubio...

but then someone ELSE who has SENSE will talk to Boehner about needing the Hispanic vote in '12 and something will get done.

[Hello_Kitty]

107. Realize that you are hanging your hopes on a mythical Republican with sense. eom

[jenmito]

108. There WILL be some Repubs. who will realize they need the Hispanic vote. n/t

[jenmito]

45. I notice the article is from 12/9. And I disagree with this op-ed. n/t

[Raine1967]

65. I posted the same in this very thread, that said:

It's not an op-ed.

[jenmito]

69. I just looked for and found your post...

GMTA (except for the op-ed comment which I MEANT to say). :D

[Raine1967]

86. Just common sense.

and reading links.

[Aramchek]

54. if you act like children, expect to be treated that way

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[JamesA1102]

72. When did the left ever respect the President.

They were yelling that he was a sellout before he set foot in the Oval Office.

[w4rma]

122. And why would that be? Maybe because he hired on the very same economic screw ups that caused our

economic problems. He campaigned with a very competent economic team who he fired and replaced with a bunch of DLC liars and 'free' traitors once he won his election.

My question is: How is he going to win re-election if his initial election was run with an entirely different set of principles and people? My answer is: He won't. Expect a Republican President in 2012.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[RBInMaine]

75. Well, matbe you'd have been happier with McCain and Palin. (??) Please enter reality.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

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[Unvanguard]

92. It's not about norms of respect, it's about optimal policy outcomes.

Weakening the Democratic Party with fratricidal strife is not a good way to achieve those.

[Whisp]

96. treat us badly you say.

as if you speak for all. harumpht!

I think he treats us as best he can, given the constraints he has. Just a matter of opinion I suppose.
But if you want to call people all for treating us badly, why don't you use that energy you have for the Repubfucks who are being assholes that didn't want any kind of progress that Obama has managed.

he doesn't treat me like a rightwing, but I am not one, so maybe thats got something to say in itself.

[zulchzulu]

98. This thread brought to you by Cluelessness. It's Just Easier. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

101. Who's "us" exactly?

:shrug:

[WiffenPoof]

103. I Would Rather See The...

President go down in flames fighting for principles. People respect those who stand for something.

-PLA

[boppers]

119. "People respect those who stand for something. "

Not nearly as much as they respect people who actually accomplish things, rather than just going down in flames while fighting for them, and thus, rendering their actions completely pointless and without merit.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

156. +1.

[mkultra]

120. That's true childishness

His job is to win what he can for us given the climate and the effectiveness of the congress. Both of which have been pretty pathetic.

[Recursion]

137. Some of us stopped being 14 at some point (nt)

[tnvoter]

110. I disagree with you completely.

I'm as liberal as they come. I think Obama has given us a lot to celebrate, despite having to fight off his detractors from the right. He has conducted himself in a dignified way in advocating issues that are important to me. I wouldn't have done it differently.

In fact, in my circle of "extreme liberals" no one shares your opinion.

[sandwiche]

111. I still support the president

I'm as far to the left as the left stretches in contemporary America. On most occasions, when I'm considering American politics, I would characterize my leanings as that of a Democratic Socialist. However, when I'm pondering politics in my ivory tower, I think as a Marxist.

I can't say that I'm satisfied with everything that the President has accomplished. However, can a true progressive ever be satisfied? As long as injustice and poverty among humans exist, which I'm sure they will until our extinction, there is always progress to be made and more that could be accomplished.

Leading up to his election, Obama seemed to have this aura around him. He captivated people's imagination in such a way that many saw him as more than a politician whose principles they could believe in. Instead, there seemed to be this idea among many, fostered by both hope and desperation I'm sure, that somehow Obama would be able to enter office and create all the change he campaigned for simply out of good will and charisma and forgo the necessary process of playing politics.

It seems that many are now abandoning ship because Obama has proven himself to be human. He can't rule outside and above our political system, and one cannot rule in it and hold on to the visage of a demi-god. He has to make priorities, consider a multitude of ramifications for every action taken. He will error and leave some feeling ignored.

Two years following the election and the great society has not materialized. Will it ever? Thankfully, Obama has managed to accomplish a lot of his platform. The stimulus, healthcare reform, financial regulatory reform, much of the legislation passed in the lame duck. Who was the last president to oversee the passing of so much progressive legislation?

We cannot forget that ultimately American politics is a numbers game. When approximately 40% of Americans define themselves as conservative and less than 20% define themselves as liberal it is necessary to realize that the numbers are not on the side of transformational egalitarian progress.

The majority of Americans are not self-defined liberals. Far from it! Obama will not be successful by catering simply to the interests of self-defined liberals. It took many more moderates and independents to get him into office and he will need their support to get reelected.

It will take a cultural revolution, or two, for the majority of Americans to overwhelmingly support the legislative action necessary to achieve an egalitarian, just society.

However, I do not think Obama is playing politics as usual. I think he has been able to accomplish a great amount of real progress because he is both methodical and principled. I will probably always support the president if he is a Democrat, but I'm proud to call Obama my president.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

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[mkultra]

121. I love how you take the words of the WP and put them in Obama's mouth

Its not wonder you get no respect.

[JoePhilly]

132. Help Help!!! I'm being repressed!!!!

Obama hates me ... Obama hates me!!!!

Yawn.

[Raine]

128. He gets the same respect from me that he gives to me

I'm a liberal so I guess you can see how much respect goes his way from me. x(

[ecstatic]

130. You don't respect him anyway, so what's the problem?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

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[GentryDixon]

134. The alternative works better for you?

Unrec.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

149. +0.5

Half-hearted agreement here.

In 2012, my vote will be one check mark for the Democratic slate. As usual. Because the Republicans are so much worse.

And that's my half-hearted endorsement for Obama - "No Real Change, But Better Than The Other Guys"

:hi:

[creon]

140. my respect

Obama has my respect. He is, in fact, the most adult person that we have had since Carter.
As far as I am concerned, Obama's big problem is that he has few adults that can work with.

[texshelters]

150. Clinton just ignored us when he didn't agree, but

Obama and his staff (Gibbs and Emmanuel in particular) have been downright insulting.

He lost a lot of support from the people that helped elect him. Not just electoral support, for who here will vote for Romney, or Palin, or my prediction (you heard it here first) Mike Huckabee. No one.

But in terms of supporting his agenda? I am Fighting him at least 50% of the time, and if he wants to cut Social Security after giving billions to those who don't need nor asked for it, he's in for more than criticism from the "professional left".

Peace,
Tex Shelters
http://texshelters.wordpress.com/

[Dawgs]

153. He could scream and yell at the butt kissers and they will ALWAYS support him.

They think he's perfect.

[Teaser]

154. "WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS?"

.

[cliffordu]

155. What did he do to you?

Crap on your lawn?

Your posted posit really isn't worth discussing.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

157. But some on the left are extremists and unreasonable children.

They think Obama is Bush Lite, yet they want him to achieve progressive goals via the same methods Bush used and which were decried at the time.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

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