This constant Obama bashing is ridiculous, plain and simple.

[RBInMaine]

Unreal. Just unreal. With all the horrendousness being perpetrated by the right wing we have some "liberals" expending energy bashing Obama night and day. It is simply outside reality. He ended DADT. Liberal enough? He got us the fair pay act. Liberal enough? He gave us a stimulus package that invested in green energy, infrastructure, and saved millions of jobs. Liberal enough? He reversed numerous bad Bush policies through executive order. Liberal enough? He fought like hell for the Dream Act. Liberal enough? He has stopped enforcing DOMA. Liberal enough? He has signed more PROGRESSIVE legislation in two years than we've had at least since LBJ. Liberal enough? And, if anyone needs a further refresher course, You Tube Rachel Maddow for her piece on all the progressive accomplishment. Now I know some will say, "Well, he has also negotiated with R's, and he's trying to be centrist, and he should have fought harder for the public option, and he shouldn't have compromised for even two years on tax extensions for the rich," etc. Let's get into reality. He is ONE branch of government. He does not have ultimate power. The tax deal extended the middle class cuts, extended unemployment insurance, and did other progressive things as well. The tax cuts for the wealthy were extended only temporarily. It was the best that could have been done at the time with the Congress he had to work with. (As to being "centrist", you don't win a presidential election without indies and moderates, and a president has to be president of all the people. These same bashers also bash Bill Clinton who won twice and whose presidency has a 62% historial approval. Go figure.)
The tax bill Bernie Sanders wanted was voted on and LOST. What do people not get? Reality time. It would be STUPID for Obama to overly inject himself in the Wisconsin matter. It would then become all about right wingers making it an issue about HIM instead of keeping the focus on the real issue. Some here are actually bashing him over his theme of WINNING THE FUTURE. How crazy. Winning the future, innovating, investing in education, green energy, high speed rail, creating the economy of the future, ... THIS IS CALLED PROGRESS and it is what we as progressives are all about. So enough of this crazy Obama bashing. It is simply ridiculous and outside the realms of reality. Some need to find political reality plain and simple. Enough is enough.

[OKNancy]

1. When you bash Dems and refuse to deal in practical politics

you know what you get? You get Republican governors in states like Wisconsin.

[RBInMaine]

3. Thank you ! Yeah, that "Let's sit out and punish the Dems." thing is working out so well isn't it?

[Avant Guardian]

55. Lashing out at fellow DUers about 'sitting out' is an exercise in futility

DUers vote. You are barking up the wrong tree. The youth vote that swept Obama into office in 2008 did not show up for the midterms. Why didn't the youth vote rematerialize? Ask yourself this.

[fatbuckel]

63. I don`t see where RBInMaine called out DUers. Show me.

[Avant Guardian]

149. Read post #0

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. I criticize the President, my State elects Democrats.

It is States like your own and Maine that elect Republicans at stunning rates. Not one of my State Democrats lost in 2010, not one. So you sit there in Tulsa and try to tell the winners how we should be like you, the losers? Your Democrats lost, did they not? The OP elects Republicans to the Senate, the House, the State House. Maine and Oklahoma are Red States.
If you managed to go Democratic, your advise might carry some weight. To lecture on how to, you have to have done. California elected Democrats, so did Washington, and Oregon, meaning our entire region, the entire West Coast did what you and the OP did not do, elect Democrats to office.
Name your Senators. Mine are Wyden and Merkley. I know yours. But you need to type their names.

[OKNancy]

41. That's a ridiculous argument

No Democrat in a red state is to comment about politics. If I move to Oregon, which is a possibility since my daughter is living there and I'd like to be near her, then I would be allowed to comment. In fact, there is no reason to assume that I don't live there now. I've had this DU name since DU started.
Over the top critique of Democrats suppresses the Democratic vote. Period.

[27inCali]

69. to many Liberals are stuck in victim mode

they don't understand anything other than bringing grievances and finding fault even where there isn't any, and it makes the rest of us left leaning folks look like a bunch of unrealistic, whiny college kids.

[cliffordu]

119. LOL. You are REALLY funny!!! Perfect!

:rofl:

[Mimosa]

132. YES! Obama shouldn't have bashed US! LOL n/t

[Avant Guardian]

159. When you run as a Democrat, but legislate like a republican

You know what you get? You get Republican governors in states like Wisconsin. Why? Because the youth movement that brought Obama into office on the tails of his 'Hope' and 'Change' memes, did not show up when those memes turned out to be little more than campaign slogans.

[paulk]

162. +1

[Kdillard]

2. It is ridiculous but unfortunately not surprising. It started the minute he was

sworn in.

[RBInMaine]

5. Thanks. I agree.

[obamafourmore]

10. Actually, even before that. The thing is, most of these people were never on his side

But now they act like they own him.

[Umbral]

40. Actually, it started the moment he won the primary, ya know, when he started showing his true colors

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

60. Well maybe if he hadn't done so much that he deserved to be criticized for

he wouldn't have been criticized. No one gets a free pass, ya know.

[grahamhgreen]

131. No it started when he refused to allow single payer to be part of the debate, increased the wars, an

Continued rendition

And with the sellout to the bankers

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theaocp]

6. Unrec because I don't like criticism

called "bashing." The man has EARNED his criticism and if the heat's too much for you, stay out of the kitchen.

[Demit]

19. I agree with you.

It's perfectly logical to criticize the president for his questionable actions. Criticism doesn't 'get Republican governors'. Other people's voting does that. Unrec also.

[Andy823]

83. Actually

It's those who "DIDN'T" vote because they were "sending a message" by buying into right wing BS that got us republican governors! Thank them for what is happening in Wisconsin since there were something like 800,000 people who didn't bother to vote!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. The word 'bashing' is used with intention

I agree that it is a vile choice of words. The definition of 'bash' involve violent attacks, and in common use, the word is most often associated with attacks on gay people for being gay, the sort of violence urged by surrogates to Obama, such as McClurkin who called for war against gay people for 'trying to kill our children'. McClurkinists call for bashing.
I am in agreement with Teddy Roosevelt who said "To announce that there should be no criticism of the President, or that we should stand by the President right or wrong is not only servile and unpatriotic, it is morally treasonable to the American public."
So I'm with TR. 100%.

[emilyg]

65. Agree.

[lamp_shade]

7. That says it all. K&R.

[RBInMaine]

8. Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eridani]

11. No--Obama should not go to WI and make it all about him

However, what the FUCK makes him think that telling the DNC to back off of national acitons is a good idea?

[vaberella]

15. Really? I mean really? Because I read...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-national-democrats-mobilize-state-employee-protests/story?id=12949812 <---Which could be one of the problems. And all thins mention about Obama sending the DNC to cause problems.

Or this: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html?showall

http://vodpod.com/watch/5602241-obama-dnc-goes-lawless-in-wisconsin

http://www.thenation.com/blog/158999/white-house-odds-obama-supporters-over-wisconsin-protests

Could it be Boehner's statements and so many other statements which has also been skewed in the same way Obama's role has been skewed and people are trying to dismantle the fight going on in Wisconsin by actually stating that it's staged and run by the DNC. So that the DNC created and planted protesters. That's what they were saying. This would have caused an even bigger shit storm. Because the DNC is directly related to Obama. People, let's think logically here. Nothing is 1-2-3. If you did some reading you'd see that the first thing Obama did was to send out the DNC and his people to help the protesters in Wisconsin....but then this maneuver was taking up the political discourse. Put in a search of Obama, DNC, and Wisconsin----all you'll see is post after post, article after article---from ABC news to Politico saying it was thuggery for Obama to do that.

[eridani]

21. The DNC took this action on its own--it is not a "distraction"

Of course the whore media are going to say that sticking up for workers is thuggery. Is this supposed to be a reason not to do it?

[vaberella]

26. Actually no it did not. I remember when this move was first made.

Obama was the one that initialized it. Please, this was known. It was in several posts with several articles posted on DU and it was directly related to Obama. The DNC did not do it on it's own. However, it was twisted and turned and said Obama was using the DNC as a thug in workers rights.

The main reason people don't want Obama in the issue is because he will change the discourse and pollute what's being done. The issue will turn from being about Republicans and their corporatism trying to destroy to the middle class into being about Obama versus the Republicans. The people will be lost and their voice will be lost. Obama, who did send in and order the DNC to go into WI---was also seen as tainting the movement and again seen as thuggery.

It's like you wan to blame Obama in almost everything or your not getting your full facts on this. This is a grassroots movement that the right and Republicans and the media have been trying to use as an Obama movement of people and he is manipulating and using the people in Wisconsin to get ahead. This is not the message he wants to send and it's not the bloody message people from Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana want.

[chill_wind]

126. Dan Pfeiffer outright denied that, vaberalla. Was he lying?

Administration officials said Sunday that the White House had done nothing to encourage the demonstrations in Wisconsin — nor was it doing so in Ohio, Florida and other states where new Republican governors are trying to make deep cuts to balance their budgets.

And, officials and union leaders said, reports of the involvement of the Democratic National Committee — specifically Organizing for America, the grass-roots network born of Mr. Obama’s 2008 campaign — were overblown to start with and were being inflated by Republicans sensing political advantage.

“This is a Wisconsin story, not a Washington one,” said Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director. “False claims of White House involvement are attempts to distract from the organic grass-roots opposition that is happening in Wisconsin.”

February 20
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/us/politics/21democrats.html?_r=2&ref=jackiecalmes

And if he was, are you saying they naively did it anyway, without anticipating what would be extremely predictable blowback from the GOP/Fox News/corp media buzzsaw?

:shrug:

[vaberella]

12. Here, here!! I was trying to say something similar in my post.

I was hoping people would get the point, which is that we need to focus on the real problem. Rather than Obama, Obama, Obama. Lost to them.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Do words matter?

"It's what happens when the American worker doesn't have a voice at the negotiating table, when leaders change their positions on trade with the politics of the moment, and that is why we need a president who will listen not just to Wall Street, but to Main Street, a president who will stand with workers not just when it's easy, but when it's hard, and that's the kind of president I intend to be when I'm president of the United States of America."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. cute. misguided, but cute.

There's a war on, if you haven't noticed. Silence in time of war is little more than agreeing with the enemy.

Unfortunately, for each example you proclaim as a great success, there are three times as many examples of how he did nothing, or worse, he adopted our opposition's positions, at times even exceeding their demands.

Taxes are a great example: Knowing that the GOP would use deficits as a nuclear weapon, he compounded our problem by agreeing to billionaire tax cuts. This result is so offensive, so vile, that he deserves absolutely nothing but scorn for this. Every battle he now must fight on the budget was made worse, simply because he caved in like a house of cards on the issue of taxing those who can most afford it. It was not so much that he fought the good fight and lost. Rather, he never even tried to fight. That's not leadership, that's bleedership, a death by a thousand cuts.

War crimes? Absolutely unforgivable. We are the United States of America. We prosecute war crimes, not cover them up after committing them. We stand by the little guy, we support universal human rights, and we rely totally on the Genevas. Except when Obama is in office. He has adopted every single Bush policy, including covering up the crimes, protecting those who ordered or committed them, and preventing any real investigation of just how bad our crimes were.

Contractor Fraud. Did you know that the number of contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan have INCREASED since his election? Including those companies that were clearly robbing us blind? This is not merely a cover-up, he is compounding the problem, and preventing any investigation.

Wall Street. Yeah, let's regulate Wall Street by . . . . PROMOTING BILL DALEY? There is a new bubble forming, with synthetic derivatives (translation - trash sold as real investments). This means the era of billion dollar payoffs is starting up anew, screwing the little guy once again.

There are many other examples. While I take my hat off on some of his successes, the rest of his tenure has been a major league disappointment. Probably the biggest disappointment of all? His refusal to take a principled, hard, yet important stance and use the full power of his office to shape and drive the message, the policy, and seek a well defined result. That takes a spine, that takes hard work, and that takes clarity of thought. As brilliant as he is, he has shown no spine. He shies away from the hard slog of pushing the right vs. the easy policy. He displays murkiness when clarity is required. Overall, I give his presidency a C- to a C. Simply claiming that he is better than that idiot from Alaska and her senile old goat is hardly a good way to grade a presidency.

[Doctor_J]

16. I'm with you CA

He had a chance to destroy the Repukes beginning in 2009, but instead he sided with them over working people. His successes are laudable (DADT, DOMA) but his overall performance has been extremely disappointing.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. I agree with CA as well, but Doctor, in what way is DOMA a

laudable success? That law stands, utterly unassailed and until recently breathlessly defended by the administration. I get really, really sick of that shite. DOMA is today exactly as it has been since it was passed, the law of the land.
Why credit him for doing that which he has not done? I assume you do not suffer from the bigoted laws which reflect the President's religious dogmas, his 'faith'. Apparently the President practices some dank form of Christianity in which torture and fraud and lies are Sacraments, and the only ethical question is how much oppression can be pile on teh gay.
DOMA? It's what's for dinner, it is the law your community uses against mine, a law the President has defended in court for two years now.

[Mimosa]

133. BlueNorthWest, 'Faith"???

I seriously doubt an ambitious politician has any doctrinal principles. It's all about sucking up to certain voter blocs.

Surely you don't think the President is authentically 'religious'. I don't. I think he dares not offend the evangelical bloc.

[dennis4868]

52. yes, very disappointing...

www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

INCREDIBLE FORST 2 YEARS....HISTORICAL!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

75. glad you agree. Wish we didn't need to do this.

but, his failures clearly outweigh his successes, no matter how much spin you apply.

[Mira]

28. you said this so well - it chokes me up. Truth hurts. n/t

[Tatiana]

62. I agree with this. I would grade him as a C-. n/t

[DutchLiberal]

97. The USA doesn't prosecute war crimes and doesn't support human rights...

"War crimes? Absolutely unforgivable. We are the United States of America. We prosecute war crimes, not cover them up after committing them. We stand by the little guy, we support universal human rights, and we rely totally on the Genevas. Except when Obama is in office."

Really? Then why wasn't Richard Nixon prosecuted and put in jail for Vietnam and Cambodia? Hell, why weren't Johnson and McNamara imprisoned for their role in the whole debacle? Why did Henry Kissinger receive a Nobel Peace Prize instead of jail time? Why was George H.W. Bush awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, instead of sitting in prison for his role in the atrocities and genocide in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua? Reagan should've served time as well.

Presidents and their cabinet members are above the law. Always have been, always will. It's true what Nixon said: "when the president does it, that means it's not illegal". They don't get punished. They get rewarded. Mostly by Democrats, who pardon them, or insist to "look forward" or who hand them medals and honors.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

104. you make me sick

by putting a mirror to our history, and reminding me just how badly we have acted in the past. How true your words are.
Thanks for that, because we need more mirrors, more spotlights, and more exposure of that which you so perfectly stated.

I am reading Follett's latest, which reminds me that all too often, people place themselves under a yoke. It is as though giving someone else the responsibility over their personal lives, their own responsibility is gone. Humans are weird. And to top it off, we inhabit that race.

[DutchLiberal]

115. For a moment, I was embracing myself for a round of bashing...

Luckily your message was not what it seemed to be at first. Thank you.

'We' (the West) act very selectively, not only at home, but also abroad. Yes, we will overthrow dictators and getting them to court, like Slobodan Milosovic or Charles Taylor --but only if they're not of use to us (anymore). Right now, everybody is turning his back on Qaddafi. But when he was pretending to fight Al Queda for us and kept the oil flowing to Europe, we didn't mind this "mad dog" being in power. We overthrew Saddam Hussein because he was such a terrible dictator. We forgot we financed and armed him in the 1980's, when he was just as ruthless. Mubarak lost the support of Obama for doing the very same things Pepe Lobo is doing in Honduras, which receives Obama's full support.

Forget 'international law'; forget 'war crimes'; forget 'Geneva Conventions'. They only count when we benefit from enforcing them. Otherwise, not so much.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

144. We share the same views . . . And despair.

[Enthusiast]

175. I wish I could think differently.

But that's the way it is.

[Skittles]

177. CORRECT

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

18. Nonsense.

Listen. People aren't picking four or six random, inconsequential things that Obama did wrong. The brutal truth is that some policy decisions are so outrageous and fundamentally at odds with core liberal Democratic values that they cannot be counterbalanced or excused by citing other accomplishments. They need to be acknowledged and fixed.

I'm gonna repeat that one more time: I don't care how many worthy new proposals may be on the table in the next two years. I welcome any good policy with open arms. But the outrageous and egregious *wrong turns* of the past two years still need to be fixed, and Democrats are morally obligated to stand up and say that.

Extending health insurance coverage will not make up for the fact that the ironically named "Affordable Care Act" does not even pretend to address the problem of spiraling costs and, in fact, mandates that already struggling Americans buy from these bloodsuckers a product they can't afford to use. It does not change the fact that Obama lied when he promised to consider a public option after already striking a deal with the insurance companies. People have a right to be outraged about that.

No, coverage for pre-existing conditions does not excuse ignoring that problem. President Obama needs to FIX that.

Americans are being systematically impoverished by the poor economy and a corporate system run amok, and President Obama has inexplicably taken this opportunity to reach out to the corporations with massive tax breaks, support for corporate mergers, and installation of corporate bigwigs into multiple areas of his administration. Corporations are raking in record profits, but Americans are watching their hopes for the future traded away for corporate votes and corporate money. The much-touted "recovery" consists of shit jobs without benefits that will entrench American workers in poverty.

And now unions are under attack. After promising in stirring speeches that he would stand up for American workers, we now learn that Wisconsin is considered unwanted "drama" by this President. Once again, his contempt for ordinary workers is clear.

No, even marvelous high speed rail or public transportation initiatives aren't going to be enough to excuse that. President Obama needs to change his priorities and start valuing ordinary people over CEO's.

The Fourth Amendment is not a little thing. Holding prisoners indefinitely is not a little thing. Torture is not a little thing. How dare you file these assaults to American values, which revolted you under Bush, under "insignificant"? And if Bush had had his TSA agents going up under your son's scrotum and touching your daughter's vulva through clothing...if his TSA agents had made your mother remove her prosthetic breast and drenched your elderly father in his own urine...and if his Homeland Security director left open the option of expanding invasive patdowns or scanning procedures to trains and subway stations, you would have screamed bloody murder and been justifiably outraged at the shredding of our Fourth Amendment. The continuing unwarranted, intrusive groping and surveillance of American citizens is not a little thing. It is an OUTRAGE.

No, 20 new creative neighborhood revitalization initiatives will NOT make up for shredding our Bill of Rights. President Obama needs to STOP defending this outrage and FIX it.

Extending tax cuts for billionaires, while putting on the table slashes in safety nets for the poor and elderly, is a morally indefensible position for any President, most egregiously a Democratic one.

No, not even twenty great new proposals for education or the environment will make up for threatening our most vulnerable citizens. President Obama needs to DEFEND SOCIAL SECURITY AND THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET, RATHER THAN THREATENING TO SLASH IT. Seeking cuts in heating assistance for the poor while extending tax cuts to billionaires? Are you fucking kidding me?????

There was an excellent post on this board by Lydia Leftcoast, exhorting all Democrats to evaluate and respond to legislation from a position of core values, rather than the party of the person who proposes it. In a country where both parties are becoming less and less responsive to the people, that's a sorely needed reminder.

Some policy positions, some core Democratic values, are not negotiable. They are grounded in morality. These are a few of them.

[Doctor_J]

30. Rec this reply

No, not even twenty great new proposals for education or the environment will make up for threatening our most vulnerable citizens. President Obama needs to DEFEND SOCIAL SECURITY AND THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET, RATHER THAN THREATENING TO SLASH IT. Seeking cuts in heating assistance for the poor while extending tax cuts to billionaires? Are you fucking kidding me?????

This one is my pet peeve. this should be a slam dunk, morally and politically. Bush was crucified for trying to slash/privatize SS. Now the apologists are telling me that political realities are forcing this ultra right-wing wet dream on this president. How about this: "We are not going to abandon our needy seniors, period. Their care is much more important to me than a line item in the budget, and anyone trying to raise prices, cut benefits, or make people work until the grave will have to contend with every resource I have.

While I appreciate many things done by Obama, we have one basic disagreement: I believe the repukes are a malignant tumor that needs to be destroyed. He believes they are to be appeased.

[bertman]

38. Woo me with science nailed it. If this President represents what Democrats are now,

then I'm turning in my Democratic party membership of 40 years.

[great white snark]

47. If you can find better, electable representation then go for it.

Who are you recruiting to primary President Obama?

[bertman]

73. We CAN'T find better, electable representation because the process is controlled

and funded by the DLC, which is nothing but a division of our corporate overlords. There have been numerous viable progressive candidates who have been torpedoed by the DLC in favor of Republicans who call themselves Democrats.

The President represented himself as someone who advocated Change, but he has been a weak little mouse for change. We need a lion.

[Avant Guardian]

150. Same old tired arguement

If this is the best the Democratic party can do, then the Democratic party is no more.

[RBInMaine]

92. Fringe silliness.

[dflprincess]

117. What is now considered "fringe" were once mainstream Democratic positions

but that was before the Koch brothers helped the DLC take over the party.

[Avant Guardian]

151. Your OP has just been outed as Fringe silliness

I note you have zero rebuttle, outside your flailing.

[QC]

42. ^ This should be an OP. n/t

[Armstead]

44. +1,0000000000

Nothing to add to that.

[chill_wind]

51. Bravo!

:applause:

[truebrit71]

68. Absolutely spot-on reply...

Far more eloquent than mine, but then again i am suffering from outrage fatigue at today's 'Whachewtalkin' about Willis?' performance by the CIC when asked about Bradley Mannings inhumane treatment...

I expected to be this pissed off when there's an (R) in the WH, I didn't expect it when he elected candidate Hope'n'Change...

[BobbyBoring]

78. Double rec

n/t

[ReggieVeggie]

84. +++++++ Please make this an OP

[bvar22]

113. Spot On!

:patriot:

[saorsa]

122. Holy Cow it is good to be alive to hear the truth spoken

so plain.
The right wing machine is crunching through what is left of the institutions that support democracy, and their power players in finance have destabilized the economy of America, driving some people to such fear and distraction they will sell their souls, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and their neighbors out to avoid facing up to the truth. You do not compromise with the Right, you do not appease them by 'reaching across the aisle' to them, you do not validate them by adopting their terminology, or their 'framing'; they will simply eat you alive, suck you dry, and they will enjoy every minute of it.
There is nothing a Right Winger loves more than the sound of a liberal shredding his ideals and spitting at his fellows in a desperate attempt to hold off the vicious onslaught of a Republican Party made strong by years, YEARS, of capitulation and co-option.
Every ideal that a liberal gives up to them makes them stronger, every inch you give them they turn into miles. The only thing they fear are liberals and progressives with the courage to stand up to them, who never give them one little inch; everyone else is a tool for their toolbox.

[grahamhgreen]

129. +1

[RBInMaine]

143. Have you ever had to govern something? Anything? Do you understand American government? I doubt it.

[Avant Guardian]

152. Have you ever had a core value?

Ever? Core values do not change with the prevailing wind. If you find your core values do drift, then you never had those values to begin with.

Hard shifting to the right is not necessary to govern. There is nothing about the American government where it is necessary for Democrats to adopt republican failures.


Have you ever had to govern something? Anything? Do you understand American government? Is Obama the government, in your view?

[hay rick]

164. Wowed by woo me.

Terrific post. Definitely worth its own OP.

[saras]

170. You nailed it

The issues change, but not much. These values are the reason I rarely get excited about the fact that I have to vote Democratic. And it's not even like using them is a terribly foreign process, it's what you do when you have to vote for a "nonpartisan" position.

If a candidate who stands for these positions, and doesn't rape poodles on Youtube or something, isn't "electable" then there's nothing wrong with the candidate but the election system IS BROKEN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

[Dawgs]

172. Thank you.

:woohoo:

[unapatriciated]

178. great response to a plain and simple thread

[Exilednight]

20. Allow me to answer your questions.

He ended DADT. Liberal enough? No.

He got us the fair pay act. Liberal enough? No.

He gave us a stimulus package that invested in green energy, infrastructure, and saved millions of jobs. Liberal enough? No.

He has signed more PROGRESSIVE legislation in two years than we've had at least since LBJ. Liberal enough? No he hasn't.

[RBInMaine]

141. Your "answers" are nonsensical and you have no evidence to back them. Fringe foolishness.

[Exilednight]

145. Your response makes no sense. The answers I provided are

straightforward. The questions asked were strictly subjective to each persons philosophical belief; hence, no evidence required. Just because those items might be enough for you, they're not enough for others.

[Keith Bee]

22. K. And. Fucking. R!

:thumbsup:

[tanyev]

23. Which is why I make liberal use of DU's ignore feature.

Takes me a lot less time to surf the site these days, too.

[Scuba]

24. Right. How dare you question the President? After all, we're at war...

...I was very pleased to see the President coming out in support of Unions yesterday, and have been supportive of him in any and all discussions outside of DU.

But yesterday in Madison I spoke with dozens of protesters who were fed up with the President continuing to lean further right in what they perceive as an attempt to appease the right. They want him to stand up as say "Oh no, no more!"

Yes, he'd done some good things. Yes, he's failed to deliver on some of what he campaigned on.

But to suggest that he shouldn't be criticized is a)pointless, and b)not in keeping with the spirit of America.

[JoePhilly]

25. The Manufactured Outrage Machine (tm) runs 24/7.

It doesn't sleep and it never breaks down.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. My kingdom for an occasional paragraph indentation.

I would love to read your opinion since it was directed to people like me, but I'll have to come back to it later when the coffee adjusts my eyes.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. A reply in less than a square mile of unbroken words...

"To announce that there should be no criticism of the President, or that we should stand by the President right or wrong, is not only servile and unpatriotic, it is morally treasonable to the American public." Teddy Roosevelt.
I understand the OP disagrees with TR. I'd like to know the specifics without the use of loaded language and hyperbole. Perhaps the OP has a quote for our common history as a nation, a quote which might counter that of TR? Nixon might have a good one to use!

[TreasonousBastard]

36. Of course it is, but it's really only here and...

other "liberal" boards.

As a local Democratic Committee member I haven't met anyone yet besides teabaggers who trash the president as much as I see around here. The Democrats I work with in real life, and even a fair share of the more reasonable Republicans, all support the President to varying degrees-- understanding that we will never get everything we want the way we want it.

Is Obama perfect? Of course not. Is he Bush reincarnate? Not that either-- far from it.

Criticism? Yeah, when warranted, aand always gonna happen, but constant the sniping is way out of bounds.

(Curiously, the last post I made supporting the President in a thread like this was deleted while most of the posts bashing him stayed-- must have had something to do with saying what I REALLY thought of the bashers.)

[randr]

37. I will tell you what is ridiculous

The longest war in American history, the greatest theft of wealth in world history and no one held accountable, indefinite detention, Monsanto unleashing GM crops into our heartland with the potential of destroying our organic food sources, a natural gas industry out of control possibly contaminating large water aquifers in almost every state, a political climate of hate that goes unchallenged, and these are just the things that have actually personally affected me and my family.
Give me a break. I will deal with the future when I get control of the present!

[SkyDaddy7]

39. FINALLY A THINKING PERSON'S VOICE!!

Another thing I have noticed on DU is not only the constant "Who can bash Obama the hardest so they can get their thread to the Greatest Thread Page"...But the fact that NOT A SINGLE THREAD that I have seen & by no means a Greatest Thread bashing Nancy Pelosi for allowing a vote on a Health Care Bill with No PO or allowing a vote on the extension of the tax cuts...NOTHING!! When Nancy Pelosi actually hedl more power than did Obama when it came to blocking the legislation that so many on DU cry about!! Had Nancy Pelosi done what the so-called "Liberals" on DU wanted it would have never got to Obama's desk.

The UTTER HYPOCRISY shows folks are simply more concerned with trashing Obama & not simply being critical of their elected officials for doing something they claim to dislike!

I love Nancy Pelosi & she did a wonderful job as Speaker...My point was the UTTER HYPOCRISY!!

[TheKentuckian]

49. Some of us didn't ever want the toxic tax cuts, others wanted them rescinded,

still more wanted them to expire, and even more did not want them renewed under any circumstances.

I think a public option would have been great, if it existed in a decent framework and was accessible but the failure to get it is so far down my concerns with The Wealthcare and Profit Protection Act that the hand wringing over it tends to annoy me as much as the rabid defenders of a mandate with no price controls and a gun to the head of most workers compelling them to buy a for profit product sold on the market as directed by their employers.

You are right about one thing, Pelosi and Reid should have been roasted over a slow fire for allowing a vote on the tax debacle. We simply cannot function dragging the weight of this massive give away to the top 20% under the guise of being "middle class" tax relief compounded by rampant corporate welfare, the acceptance of socialized risk from corporation, and an absolutely bonkers military budget that matches the entire planet's combined investment.

[RBInMaine]

103. Sanders and Kucinich both voted for the healthcare bill; the best that COULD be done at the time.

[Name removed]

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[Avant Guardian]

153. That is because critique is not bashing

The two are not interchangable

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

43. and yet he will still be re-elected despite their worst efforts.

[Avant Guardian]

57. You mean despite Obama's worst efforts

...at being a DEMOCRAT

[Name removed]

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[whatchamacallit]

45. Thanks for your opinion. Obama will continue to be subject to my opinion

and receive praise or scorn as deserved.

[RBInMaine]

95. Yeah, and my opinion is also that this is DEMOCRATIC underground. Not "Bash Democrats Underground."

[Name removed]

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[Armstead]

48. If you actually paid attention to what people are saying it would be very helpful

"we have some "liberals" expending energy bashing Obama night and day."

No there are a lot of very disappointed liberals/progressives who are very frustrated with both specifics and the general tone that Obama has chosen to pursue.

"Obama bashers" are individuals, with individual views and motivations and ways of expressing themselves. But I believe that most WANT TO SEE OBAMA DO BETTER and WANT TO SEE HIM SUCCEED AS A PRESIDENT.

Because we are liberals and progressives, we believe that his success -- and his ability to improve the situation for the majority in this country -- opught to be rooted in core liberal/progressive positions.

It is perfectly justifiable to react negatively (or as constructive criticism) when someone believes that Obama is either making mistakes and/or promoting status quo Corporate CONservative policies.

[dennis4868]

50. You forget one thing.....

he did not give us ABSOLUTE PERFECT LEGISLATION in every issue so far so he is a failure here at DU....According to DUers change must come NOW and by yesterday....Change does not happen in baby steps...especially if Obama has a congress that wants him to fail and a 24/7 fillubuster....Also, according to DU, Obama is a king and so he really does not need congress to approve or fund anything so the fact that every piece of legislation is not perfect is Obama's fault because he can pass any law he wants whenever he wants too.

You also don't understand that facts dont mean anything anymore here....people here has such emotional hatred for Obama that they lose sight of the facts and the real enemies - the repubs and FOX News!

[Avant Guardian]

54. Shifting the Democratic party to the hard right is not the change we voted for

Got tax cuts for the rich?

[dennis4868]

71. yep this is shifting the dem party to the right

www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

The bullshit posts lately is a situation where I don't know if to laugh or cry....hard right...WTF?

[RBInMaine]

136. Hyperbolic and blind to the larger picture. Again, glass half empty thinking.

[Avant Guardian]

156. So, you support this push to the hard right?

You support a Democratic president abandoning Democratic core values in a futile attempt at grabbing the non existent 'middle,' yes?

[Armstead]

76. No -- There are Many Degrees of "less than perfect"

Most Duers don't expect absolute perfection or purity.

Believe it or not we're smart enough to recognize that life is compromise.

But the question in any specific issue and overalldirection is the degree of imperfection that one believes is acceptable or not acceptable. And whether a particular "compromise" is actually backtracking, giving in or selling out.

Big Difference from your meaningless black-and-white generalization.

[Avant Guardian]

157. LOL@ 'purity'

....and other blanket memes.

[Name removed]

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[jaysunb]

111. +1 n/t

[joeybee12]

53. You're right...nothing we do or say will ever make Obama do the decent or right thing...

We need to expend our energy on finding a primary candidate.

[RBInMaine]

137. I listed MANY "right things." You drown yourself in fringe purity and you need to get real.

[Name removed]

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[Avant Guardian]

58. Well put

Welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[krawhitham]

61. It has been that way on DU for 2 years

[Armstead]

74. More like a decade

Obama is just the latest manifestation of an ongoing tussle on DU and elsewhere between those who are dissatisfied with the "centrist" predominant tone of Democratic leasdership and those who believe the party should more clearly liberal/progressive populist.

During the Bushski years, it was directed at Congressional Democrats. In the primaries it takes the form of supporters of one candidate vs. another.

And before there was a DU, it was a tussle elsewhere in the 90's.

Now, since he is the symbolic head of the Demoicratic Party, President Obama is a catalyst.

[frazzled]

64. If you only have on your "looking for the worst" glasses ...

you'll find something. Some seem to spend their entire days (weeks, months, years) looking for any kernel (true or not, significant or not, distorted or not) to use as criticism. Then they are silent (or blind) when something positive is reported.

This is how we operate in politics. I know. Because I've done it myself with respect to candidates--looking for all their faults so "my" candidate can look better. But I learned to check that impulse in myself, because it's ugly. And useless.

[RBInMaine]

94. Absolutely. This is a Center-Progressive President and the most progressive who can win nationally.

[CakeGrrl]

66. k/r - if you were to poll Obama's approval here,

it would not reflect the reality of a more extensive, diverse nationwide sample. That's a simple litmus test.

[Name removed]

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[PurityOfEssence]

72. Neither he nor you are or should be immune to examination of actions; that's aristocracy or religion

The idea that one's dreamy assumptions deserve to hold the rest of our futures ransom is sickening.

Refusing to listen or give air to dissent isn't rational discourse or politics, IT'S RELIGION.

He threw away the only true moment of liberal backlash of my adult life and caved on virtually everything, showing not only an unwillingness and inability to fight, but questionable ideological underpinnings in the bright light of day. He keeps doing it.

The idea that it's an abomination to question him as he consistently sides with corporate elites and tries to seek consensus from the unwavering monarchist reactionaries is just plain silly. The idea that it's ill-mannered or childish to examine the man's performance for what it is reeks of an acolyte's terror at having his/her dreams crushed. The rest of us have dreams, children and aspirations, too, so holding the rest of us to some sick, respectful silence is holding one's dreams as superior, and that's aristocracy, not pluralism. I'm not the least bit sorry that the stalwarts are in such a pique that their champion isn't given carte blanche with our very lives; it's an ugly assertion of privilege that one's fantasy hero-worship should be above reproach.

Yes, some things like parts of the credit card reforms have been good, but so very, very many others have been servile water-carrying for the selfsame entities that thirst for his and our very destruction. Issues of labor, the environment, war, taxation, secrecy and other truly seminal ones have been trampled or fecklessly surrendered in the name of personal "success" and the vain hope of some kind of broad-ranging universal love that hearkens back to Bill Clinton's similar needs.

He's a campaigner, not a leader, and it shows. Everything is to somehow get permission from those who oppose him; it's eerily reminiscent of the cringing beseeching of a judgmental God, with the supplicant doing everything possible to finally get the pat on the head he/she so deeply, deeply needs. It's just plain ludicrous to expect this from reactionaries; they HATE the concept of pluralism, never truly compromise, are cocksure that their view is the only one that isn't literally dangerous to life itself and haven't a scruple to their name as they goose-step toward complete domination of us all.

He's Chamberlain. He's McClellan. He's a warmongering Peace Prize winner. He's a blank slate, and worst of all, he's LITERALLY PROUD OF IT. He thinks he's Gandhi and a laughable number agree.

Enough already. He's taking heat because he deserves it.

[chill_wind]

118. Owwww. That's going to leave a mark.

The searing truth.

Refusing to listen or give air to dissent isn't rational discourse or politics, IT'S RELIGION.

He threw away the only true moment of liberal backlash of my adult life and caved on virtually everything, showing not only an unwillingness and inability to fight, but questionable ideological underpinnings in the bright light of day. He keeps doing it.

Yes. He keeps doing it. And the endlessly convoluted, contorted rationalizations are mind-blowing.

[DevonRex]

77. Don't waste your time here. DU is a lost cause. Nt

[opihimoimoi]

79. The GOPers use INTIMIDATION...LEADING TO DOMINATION...Then SUBJUGATION

Social and Economic ENGINEERING are their tools to fool us into compliance obedience

[we can do it]

80. When He Behaves Like the Man We Voted For It Will Stop

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[DCBob]

87. It boogles the mind why so many "liberals" are in constant attack mode.

Someday they will realize how stupid they were.

[ReggieVeggie]

89. or, perhaps, you'll realize . . .

oh, wait, nevermind :crazy:

[Name removed]

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[jefferson_dem]

106. The unbridled cynicism and malcontentment among some on the "left" is rivaled

only by Ayn Rand Libertarians. Fun lot to hang around for sure.

[jaysunb]

112. I doubt it

They'll find someone or something else to be outraged about to the point they fuck up whatever progress is made.

I saw this movie back in the late 60's...only thing different is the cast. :evilfrown:

[cecilfirefox]

91. REC!!! This President has done miles for the progressive movement.

And you listed them all off, very well I might add.

The people who are upset with him can be upset with him, but if your actively campaigning against him you are neither a Democrat, nor a good standing member of DU, and you may as well just vote for a Republican for all the damage you may be doing.

Obama/Biden 2012!

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

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[DutchLiberal]

96. Refute this list. If you can, I'll shut up about Obama for eternity...

Here's the list:

- keeping Guántanamo Bay open
- 'indefinite detention': people who never had a trial, against whom the state has not a shred of evidence, keep being detained
- power to single-handedly declare anybody (US citizen or not) "enemy combatant" and lock them up, or have them assassinated
- expanding the war in Afghanistan
- using 'drones' to expand the war into Pakistan
- not repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of Americans
- not getting a 'public option' in health care reform; then lying about never having supported a 'public option'
- letting insurance corporations still in charge of health care; not covering 30 million people
- supporting and legitimizing the fascist coup d'état in Honduras (2009) against a democratically elected leftist president
- awarding George H.W. Bush the Presidential Medal of Freedom
- not holding his predecessor and his cronies accountable for the numerous crimes they committed

I'm sure there's stuff I missed, but start by refuting this.

[Doctor_J]

101. Here, I'll refute it

- letting insurance corporations still in charge of health care; not covering 30 million people

It's 50 million, and growing

You also forgot

- Joining the chorus to replace public schools with for-profit ones
- Appearing to want to cut social security (leaving it "on the table")
- Inviting malignancies like Boner to the table - people ho have sworn to destroy him.

[Name removed]

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[jefferson_dem]

107. You forgot...

Take out your trash, clean out your sock drawer, and score you a IPAD 2.

Then, and only then, should you even consider seeing anything good in this so-called president.

[swilton]

155. Sabotaging the Copenhagen summit

to reduce g/h gas emissions and basically start saving the planet.

[tallahasseedem]

99. It seems like many here are willing to cut their nose off to spite

their face which will hurt the very people they claim they're fighting for.

[jefferson_dem]

105. Thanks for saying what needs to be said.

There are two online discussion forums where i know I can log in and see baseless, nasty Obama smears within a single click of the mouse. Sadly, DU is one of them.

[Cali_Democrat]

108. I know. It's a shame

Obama and his policies have been absolutely peachy since he came into office. It's a shame more people don't recognize that.

[Name removed]

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[killbotfactory]

120. There are some policies that deserve derision.

But most of the vitriol that gets posted about here is just straight up bullshit. Completely counterproductive bullshit. So much of it is bullshit, and so much of it is completely pervasive, that anyone who is not prone to being susceptible to it tend to ignore the parts of his policies that deserve criticism coming from these same people. It's the boy who cried wolf thing.

But everyone feel free to continue with the needless dog pile while the republicans continue there assault on everybody who isn't rich or fundamentalist Christian.

[RBInMaine]

138. Sorry he's not perfect enough for you. Are you perfect?

[Cali_Democrat]

148. Do you have to be perfect to let the Bush Tax cuts expire?

[BumRushDaShow]

114. +1,000,000

It's disheartening. It's gotten to the point that whenever his name is invoked, the vitriol begins, no matter what. Never thought I'd see anything worse than the PUMA attacks during the primaries. At this point, the only difference between here and that other site is the forum software. Apparently nothing is considered flamebait anymore.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

121. It is absolutely ridiculous and I don't understand why the Mods allow it to continue!!

[Name removed]

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[ReggieVeggie]

124. true enough

[Name removed]

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[akbacchus_BC]

127. I know how you feel! President Obama inherited 8 years of rethugs

mismanagement, he tried his best but no, whatever he does will never be good enough for the Obama bashers.

Enough said, let's see who will primary him. Talk about inheriting a boat load of shit but after two years, the smell is gonna change. Amazing how some people are short sighted!

[Name removed]

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[donheld]

128. Proudly Unrecommend

as has been stated up thread criticism is NOT bashing.

[Youth Uprising]

130. I'll lay off Obama

once he has restored our civil liberties, ended our wars of imperialism, prosecuted the Bush war criminals, hold the Wall Street crooks responsible for our financial crisis accountable, etc.
Until then, I will continue to make my voice heard.

[tcaudilllg]

134. Two words: BRADLEY MANNING n/t

[DeSwiss]

135. Exactly.

People of conscience need to:

[DCBob]

139. You know, if anything Obama's biggest mistake was pushing too much too fast...

especailly on healthcare reform. That's what got him in trouble with the moderates and independents. Hindsight, he probably should have focused totally on the economy from day one.. and left healthcare reform for a time when the things were a bit less critical... imo.

[RBInMaine]

142. They didn't message healthcare well enough and allowed the TeaScum too much air time. Also, progress

ives did not organize well enough for it and did not smash down the TeaScum with MASSIVE counter rallies. Messaging had so much to do with it.
Their side won the propaganda war. But in polls, individual provisions of the bill are very popular. Dems need to learn how to form and control a fucking MESSAGE.

[DCBob]

147. Totally agree with that.. messaging is as critical or even more critical as the issue itself..

The problem is the RW control the airwaves (and the messaging) with Faux newz and talk radio blasting away 7x24x365.

[Name removed]

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[Avant Guardian]

154. The constant whining about critique of Obama is ridiculous

[DCBob]

158. "critique" ??? .. try "endless mindless clueless bashing".

[Avant Guardian]

160. Fact based critique is not 'endless mindless clueless bashing'

Especially when the critique is solely based on Obama's actions.

Bashing is a harsh, gratuitous, prejudicial attack on a person, group or subject, usually rooted in bigotry. Critique is rooted in logic or fact.

The 'bashing' meme falls flat on its face.

[DCBob]

163. There is nothing wrong with "fact based critique" but many have gone well beyond that..

I expect the bashing from the RW but we are all supposed to be on the same side.. I wonder some times.

[Avant Guardian]

171. And many Obama supporters bash anyone who criticizes Obama

There is plenty of dysfunction to go around.

[Exultant Democracy]

161. Obama Admin called us fucking retarded. They didn't just run away from their base

the threw in with the other side. Guess who got every seat at the table, the mega corporations.

[CakeGrrl]

168. No they didn't. That's as accurate as "Al Gore invented the Internet."

It was a specific issue, Rahm Emanuel called a concept "fucking retarded" and a whole bunch of people keep acting as if he said it to their face, about them personally, on behalf of the President of the United States.

:wtf:

[stevenleser]

165. K&R

[Top Cat]

166. Amen.. The bashing must stop if we plan to win in 2012

All the Obama bashing will comeback and bite us in the upcoming elections we are our own worst enemy.

[MNBrewer]

167. It is untrue that his administration has stopped enforcing DOMA

DOMA remains in effect, and is being enforced. I believe I read that the IRS has made SOME adjustments, but only for people who in certain states.

[TriMera]

174. You're right, DOMA remains in effect.

In regards to the IRS "adjustments", I think they may hurt more people than they help. If the government is not going to recognize my marriage, they shouldn't be able to demand that I file my taxes in some limbo status that they haven't even created a form for yet. That's just my opinion as someone who is in one of those states. It's just more hoops to jump through with nothing meaningful on the other side.

[LWolf]

169. Your opinion is noted. nt

[Name removed]

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[mstinamotorcity]

176. The President can issue

a million dollar judgement for every citizen in the United states and you would have someone who still would be mad at the President. They would feel that the sum should have been one million and one or it was too much for a certain group of people and they were not entitled to it. the divisiveness of the population is a planned strategy that the people are accustomed to, so they do it voluntarily instead of thinking or research.