While Libya War Grows, Obama Team Denies It’s a War

[tekisui]

Source: Wired

It’s one thing to say that the U.S. is right to take action against Moammar Gadhafi. It’s quite another to insist that it’s not even a war. And it’s simply dishonest to do so while escalating the war.

But that’s the spin from the Obama White House. While the president travelled through Latin America, his aides told sympathetic audiences in Washington that Operation Odyssey Dawn “is a limited humanitarian intervention, not war,” in the words of White House Mideast troubleshooter Dennis Ross. A letter to Congress notifying lawmakers that Odyssey Dawn was in effect studiously avoided the word “war,” preferring the more anodyne “military efforts” — which are “discrete” and “limited in their nature, duration, and scope.”

Ross’ remarks are outright deceptive. And it fits a pattern with President Obama: escalating U.S. military commitments while portraying them as essentially finite and limited.

For one thing, the fight is intensifying, not dropping off. On Sunday, the U.S.-led coalition flew 60 sorties over Libya; Monday it flew nearly 80; on Wednesday it flew 175. At this moment, American pilots are bombing and shooting at Gadhafi’s armor and artillery units on the outskirts of Libyan cities. Off the shores of Libya, a bevy of Navy ships and subs have launched over 160 Tomahawk missiles.

more: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/03/while-libya-war-grows-obama-team-denies-its-a-war/

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NATO can't figure out who will lead, so the US is still stuck leading the war.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Is it a war?

[tekisui]

3. Yes, of course it is. Armed, open conflict between nations and

militaries.

[Buzz Clik]

6. I don't think that Obama would deny that we are engaged in an armed conflict.

He's just not agreeing with your definition of war.

[tekisui]

8. A war by any other name kills with weaponry just the same.

Not calling it a war is asinine. How can military strikes not be acts of war?

Aside from that basic premise, Libya has been referred to a in a state of civil war for weeks now. We just took sides. We joined the civil war. No matter how you slice it, it is war.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Again, by your definition, Obama is being asinine.

You understand the power of words. So does he. Do you think you are asinine for holding so much stock in plying a word to this conflict? There is an argument for it.

[Hosnon]

24. I disagree with that definition.

I don't know if I have a handy definition in response, but it is narrower than yours.

WWII is on one end of the spectrum (definitely war), and minor skirmishes involving a few soldiers from both sides is on the other (definitely not war). For some reason I want to include an element of economic mobilization as a factor but I haven't really teased it out.

[David__77]

2. Boy they're really trying to do a "regime change."

And do it on the cheap. We'll see what happens!

[polichick]

4. Apparently there was no EXIT STRATEGY - again!

[tekisui]

5. That was my fear from the beginning.

[Buzz Clik]

7. If we are not there, we don't need an exit.

Our involvement is strictly by remote control. Our presence in done when we stop flying.

[tekisui]

9. But, no one has figured out how to relieve us of our command and leadership roles.

We aren't going to stop flying and lobbing missiles until another organization is ready to take over. That requires a plan of exit.

[Buzz Clik]

11. I disagree. We quit firing when we are done. It's simple.

[tekisui]

12. How do we know when we are done?

These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. We won't just say, "alright Libya, NATO and UN, it's been real, but we are out!"

[Buzz Clik]

15. We're done in Iraq and heading for the exits. Three years ago we thought it would last forever.

Wars end.

[tekisui]

16. That happened after years of war and an exit plan.

Wars don;t just end. They end with planning and intention.

[Buzz Clik]

17. Exit plan? Bush had no exit plan at all. Zero.

[tekisui]

20. I know he didn't. The status of forces agreement became the exit

plan for him. Besides, we are still in Iraq.

The point is, wars don't just end. It takes resolve, planning and intention. We don't just pack up and leave when we feel like it.

[polichick]

18. If we're done, why do we have over 50,000 people there?

[Buzz Clik]

19. Are we done fighting WWII? Korea?

Do we still have troops in Europe and Korea?

I really should not have to explain this. I get the distinct impression that you are arguing for the sake of argument.

[polichick]

23. Actually, I believe we should close at least half of our 800+ foreign bases...

Our military footprint is obscene!

A good book about this: http://www.amazon.com/Dismantling-Empire-Americas-American-Project/dp/0805093036

[Buzz Clik]

26. Agreed, but the wars are over.

[polichick]

27. The "wars" against American taxpayers are certainly not over...

The military industrial complex robs us each and every year.

[Buzz Clik]

30. Ok.

[mkultra]

31. gish galloping

[polichick]

33. Huh?

[polichick]

13. What constitutes being "done?"

[Buzz Clik]

21. We aren't done yet. You'll recognize it when you see it.

[polichick]

25. You said "it's simple" - it doesn't seem so.

[jillan]

14. I think all people want is the truth - whatever it is. Just tell us what is going on.

Why is that such a hard concept?

[WiffenPoof]

22. Yep...You Hit The Nail On THe Head...

I may not always agree with my leaders...However, I just want the truth.

-PLA

[mcollins]

28. War? What is war?

Sometimes in order to understand truthspeak you have to look a word up.

–noun
1. a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
2. a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations: The two nations were at war with each other.
3. a contest carried on by force of arms, as in a series of battles or campaigns: the War of 1812.
4. active hostility or contention; conflict; contest: a war of words.
5. aggressive business conflict, as through severe price cutting in the same industry or any other means of undermining competitors: a fare war among airlines; a trade war between nations.
6. a struggle: a war for men's minds; a war against poverty.
7. armed fighting, as a science, profession, activity, or art; methods or principles of waging armed conflict: War is the soldier's business.
8. Cards .
a. a game for two or more persons, played with a 52-card pack evenly divided between the players, in which each player turns up one card at a time with the higher card taking the lower, and in which, when both turned up cards match, each player lays one card face down and turns up another, the player with the higher card of the second turn taking all the cards laid down.
b. an occasion in this game when both turned up cards match.
9. Archaic . a battle.
–verb (used without object)
10. to make or carry on war; fight: to war with a neighboring nation.
11. to carry on active hostility or contention: Throughout her life she warred with sin and corruption.
12. to be in conflict or in a state of strong opposition: The temptation warred with his conscience.
–adjective
13. of, belonging to, used in, or due to war: war preparations; war hysteria.
Use War in a Sentence
See images of War
Search War on the Web

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Origin:
before 1150; (noun) Middle English, late Old English werre < Old North French < Germanic; cognate with Old High German werra strife; (v.) Middle English, late Old English werrien (transitive) to make war upon, derivative of the noun; compare Old French guerrer, Old North French werreier; akin to war 2

[polichick]

29. And what is it good for?...

Absolutely nothing!

[ieoeja]

32. You know, we are talking about Ghadafi here.

A major player in state sponsored terrorist ... until he faced a single bombing mission.

A rabid, anti-American ... until he became America's best buddy after witnessing Iraq.

Yes, most times war just produces more animosity. But Ghadafi has a history of being one of those exceptions.



Of course, Ghadafi is ultimately just one guy. Will the losers in this battle turn to their previous terrorist ways? Or will the rebels let Ghadafi be the fall guy, and allow his people to participate significantly in the future government? Will his people ever accept power sharing with the rebels? And who, if anyone, will both sides accept as a mediator?

The one thing we can most bet on is that Ghadafi will go and go quickly. It fits his modus operandi. And his exit might clear a path for a decent outcome. Or might not. It certainly wasn't going to be a decent outcome before the world intervened.