Paul Ryan doubles down, says seniors should pay for their own health care

[ProSense]

Paul Ryan doubles down, says seniors should pay for their own health care

by Jed Lewison

Paul Ryan is out with a new video defending his plan to end Medicare, and he's not backing off—he's doubling down:

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According to Ryan, the key problem with Medicare is that "someone else pays the actual bill." As a result, he says, costs go up and quality goes down.

Ryan's solution? Instead of Medicare covering health care costs, individual senior citizens should "pay directly" for their own health care.

Ryan's argument is obviously nonsensical. He says that under his plan seniors will receive vouchers to pay for health care, but if the vouchers actually did cover the full cost of the plan, that would be the same thing as having "someone else" paying the bill—undercutting the premise of his argument. And if the vouchers don't cover health care cost, and seniors truly are forced to "pay directly" then Ryan isn't actually reducing health care costs, he's just transferring the burden from Medicare to individuals.

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Ryan, the flim-flam man.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[montanacowboy]

2. Two things they NEVER mention

1. Seniors pay all their life for Medicare

2. They CONTINUE to pay for Medicare each month with a premium deducted
from theiri SS checks.

I hate that Eddie Munster Look Alike Freak

[shraby]

7. Plus the supplemental insurance we have to have to cover

the 20% that Medicare doesn't cover. On Social Security, most people couldn't afford to pay that 20% out of their own pocket..it can amount to a lot of money of they have a heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc.
Supplement insurance policies strain they're limited resources as it is but is necessary so they don't end up homeless after a major medical disaster.
Most elderly are insurance poor as it is with house insurance, car insurance, supplemental insurance, life insurance to cover burial expenses, Plan D plus the co-pay they have to fork over, and the $1200.00 per year already taken from their Social Security checks for Medicare.
Have I missed anything?

[BlueMTexpat]

31. Plus prescription drug care coverage and

costs that remain AFTER Medicare, Medicare Supp and Prescription drug coverage payments have been deducted.

I believe that Ryan, who is deliberately ignorant, may be confusing Medicare with Medicaid, which covers those who are truly destitute.

We who are on Medicare are generally very happy that we are. But to say that we have not paid into Medicare and are not still paying a portion of those costs is a deliberate lie.

[CBHagman]

60. It's a trend among the GOP, and has been for a while...

...to ignore A) how the system works and B) how much it actually costs and C) why.

For example, Mitt Romney recently implied that workers in employer-provided health insurance plans pay ONLY the deductible, nothing more. Of course that's not true; the employee pays a premium every month, and the employer pays part as well.

During the Bush administration, one official (I can no longer recall if it was Hubbard or Lazear) compared the employer-provided plans to giving away free groceries.

And now we've come to this with Medicare. Ryan basically ignores how health insurance, in its myriad forms, works in this country, and what it actually costs us (and why), and the media acts as though he's presenting a rational approach. Ridiculous.

[flpoljunkie]

3. Shifting the burden to seniors while making health care costs skyrocket. Quite the plan, Ryan!

Will Ryan's ego and his Ayn Rand ideology destroy his party's chances in 2012? Let's hope so!

[liberal N proud]

4. In other words, you get sick - you die

[MadMaddie]

24. Gosh I remember a Democratic Senator saying that last year

and the MSM went crazy....he was right.

[madmom]

5. Who pays for HIS healthcare? n/t

[Harmony Blue]

9. Ryan will probably never answer that

because it would only expose how terrible his plan is.

[flamingdem]

27. He was on social security growing up after his father died nt

[area51]

57. For the slowbees in Freak Republic who may be reading this thread,

we the taxpayers are picking up the tab for P. Ryan.

[Bryn]

6. What a moron Ryan is! Seniors *DO* pay for Medicare!

I paid into Medicare for 36 years when I worked then got on SSDI, still paying for it out of SSDI checks each month. And besides Medicare does not pay for everything so we're forced to buy another one like Advantage or Blue Cross Blue Shield or United something as supplement to Medicare! Medicare needs to be expanded.

Example: Mom was sent to behavioral health to be evaluated for dementia at hospital. Medicare paid for it the first 20 days then Mom got sent to Heritage Health & Rehab. Her Blue Cross Blue Shield supplement is taking over for up to 100 days. Mom pays 97.00 for Medicare and Blue Cross as supplement 185.00 per month taken out of her SS checks!

This makes Ryan really dumb! He does not know how it works. It's bad enough as it is right now.

[safeinOhio]

8. he is toast. nt

[nichomachus]

10. I'm a senior and I DO pay for my own health care

1. I pay $95 a month -- or so -- back to the government out of my SS check for Medicare Part B
2. I pay $150 a month to my Medicare supplement plan
3. I pay $45 a month for the Medicare Part D scam

That's $290 a month or $3,770 a year.

Then, I have a $500 deductible on my supplement plan.

So, in total, I pay $4,270 a year out of my SS check.

Then, if I hit the "donut hole" in Part D, I will pay the exorbitant cost of drugs out of pocket until I bankrupt myself. Then, they will help me again.

Let me explain the donut hole for those who don't have to deal with it. The "coverage gap" begins at $2,700 of True Out of Pocket Expenses.

Let me take an example of a drug I was prescribed. The list cost of the drug was $345. I had to pay a $42 co-pay. However, the full $345 was applied to the donut hole. That means I would fall into the donut hole somewhere in August and would have to pay the $345 out of pocket until December. However, I would hit the donut hole earlier, because that was just one drug and another drug I take lists for $125 a month -- and these are not exotic drugs. In fact, quite ordinary. I could get the same drugs in Europe for about 20 euros. Once I'm in the donut hole, if I needed another really expensive drug, I would be totally screwed.

I could always cut upfront expenses by joining an HMO, but then I would pay dearly by having care delayed and denied.

[Bryn]

13. Just about same plan as my mother's

It's already expensive as it is. I forgot to add Plan D. Yes, I agree about Plan D being a scam! Ryan is really, really dumb!

[damntexdem]

11. Keep it up, Paul! Keep killing the GOP!

We love to see it!

[Kdillard]

12. It is fascinating watching him dig his own political grave.

[nichomachus]

15. Never, never, never

underestimate the willingness of a huge number of Americans to vote against their own self-interest.

IMHO, a lot of people are overinterpreting the NY election results. The difference in the race was the teabagger. Without the teabagger, the Republican would have won.

[rufus dog]

28. maybe

but not anywhere near a statistical certainty. As the teabaggers numbers decreased the Dem picked up quite a bit. For the Repuke to win all of the votes lost by the teabagger would need to go to the Repuke.

Even with that you are talking about a deep red district being essentially a tossup.

So I disagree that people are overinterpreting this one, this is the ninth most Repub district flipping, equivalent to San Francisco switching from D to R.

[sabrina 1]

53. Not really. The teabagger was a Democrat who became a

teabagger. So he most likely got some Democrats to vote for him. The Repub votes he got probably didn't know he was a democrat. I'm just guessing, but without him in the race, I think the Dem would still have won, by a slimmer margin maybe. What lost the race for the Repubs where they should have won by at least ten points easily, was the Medicare issue. Tens of thousands stayed home rather than vote for the Dem, but they were not going to vote for destroying Medicare either.

[Blue-Jay]

14. Poor Paul!

Why U old farts no like my budget?

[Mimosa]

20. LOVE the pic and caption.

You ought to caption it on LOLCats site. ;)

[Mimosa]

16. This is a GIFT which keeps on giving.

A few 'I Got Mine Republicans' think it's wonderful. (They also want to end Social Security.) But mainstream Americans will be scared to death.

[Eagle Mall]

17. Keep talking, Paul. See how many seats you can cost your Party.

[cyndensco]

18. The paul ryan bill to KILL MEDICARE strikes again!

[Peacetrain]

19. How much money did we contribute to Paul Ryans reelection???.

:rofl: the gift that keeps on giving... and the right has set themselves up with a litmus test of taking backing Ryan.. he he he he he

[Parker CA]

21. Is this guy truly this dumb? Really?

[MadMaddie]

25. One word, "Yes"!!

[Blue Owl]

22. With WHAT?

Oh yeah, he doesn't want anyone retiring, just toiling right into the grave.

[yellowcanine]

23. This will ration health care and more old people will die unnecessarily.

That is not a scare tactic, it is the truth and the Democrats need to say it.

And the worst part is that vouchers can't possibly save any money given the same level of care. In fact, it is an extra step so more money is going to be tied up in paperwork.

[flamingdem]

26. Someone needs to muzzle this idiot! Luckily, no one is stepping up! yay nt

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

32. Actually, we should contribute to his re-election campaign

Give him as many opportunities as possible to put his crazy ideas in front of the voters, and if they are half awake they'll finally get the message -- the GOP just doesn't give a shit whether you live or die.

[flamingdem]

35. Yes! In fact the Dems shouldn't contribute to Ryan's Dem opponent in the upcoming race! nt

[ccharles000]

29. how can one head hold so much stupid.

[golfguru]

30. Won't affect me, I am over 55 n/t

[Little Star]

33. Well I have children and grandchildren that I worry about......

I want them to have medicare when they get old! I'm not of the mind that it is all about I've got mine and I'm well over 55 too.

[golfguru]

44. Please read post #44 n/t

[boppers]

55. "44. Please read post #44 n/t"

er....

[flamingdem]

36. On behalf of under 55s everywhere ____ blankety blank! nt

[golfguru]

43. All predictions are the current Medicare will survive 15 years

or so. I am willing to sacrifice my benefits RIGHT NOW
so Medicare will survive for many more decades. But if
no changes are made, the under 50 people will have no
Medicare anyway. So those younger folks are screwed no
matter what happens.

[flamingdem]

46. Really. Do you have links on this because I have not heard those stats, thanks nt

[golfguru]

48. If I maintained links on everything I read

I will have to quit cooking, cleaning & honey do lists.
My wife will not be happy. I read a lot of stuff and never write down links.

[Ikonoklast]

47. This time.

Next time, it will be your turn.

At least you are consistent in your beliefs.

[golfguru]

49. People get foreclosed on their homes when money runs out

so yeah, when the US Treasury goes belly up, I will
lose Medicare benefits.

[Ikonoklast]

52. Please.

If you think the Republicans will stop the thieving once it starts, you need to start paying more attention.

Your cohort would be next on the list to screw over.

[golfguru]

54. You are quite right on that one

The republicons are bigger thieves! I am never under the delusion that Washington politicians are friends of the non-rich, the working man, the middle class.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. His argument is even against private insurance too - he wants direct billing of patients

His claim that, since the patient doesn't get the bill themselves, they don't look for the best-value option, applies just as much to any insurance system as to Medicare. Following his argument to its logical conclusion, the Republicans should be banning health insurance in which the insurance company pays the bills altogether.

What he tries to suggest, to keep his insurance company buddies' profits up, is that insurance companies can negotiate good deals, but Medicare administrators can't. Which is actually backward; the power of a central system allows it to impose decent deals, while individual insurance companies have less bargaining power. And the insurers charge extra to cover extra paperwork costs, and to make a profit.

[creeksneakers2]

64. Nearly all Republicans believe that

if individuals paid for health care out of their own pockets, people would shop around and the competition would bring costs down, This can't be true, because for millions of uninsured we have a pay out of pocket system now. Health care providers charge individuals as much as five times what insurance companies pay for the same procedure. So competition doesn't affect price as much as bargaining power. I try to tell Republicans this and they are incapable of believing what is real and right now over a theory which is part of their belief system.

I have wondered though, if people had to pay out of pocket for health care would they take better care of themselves?

[ClarkUSA]

37. Caught on video: "Bill Clinton Encourages Paul Ryan Backstage"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=679645&mesg_id=679645
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x680017

Who needs Republicans when you have DLC Royals backstabbing the Obama administration? :puke:

[CrossChris]

38. God, I hope we can find the middle ground with this guy!

Isn't that what everyone wants? The middle ground above all else?

[Enrique]

39. make the tornado victims pay for everyone's health care n/t

[Armstead]

40. Paul Ryan may turn out to be the best friend Democrats ever had

[Telly Savalas]

56. No doubt.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around how the GOP gives him such a long leash to sabotage their campaign efforts. They've completely lost touch with reality if they think they can get any traction with Ryan's budget.

[sinkingfeeling]

41. So, how is subsituting an insurance company for the government paying 'directly'?

[Avant Guardian]

42. Seniors do pay for their own healthcare

...in the form of Medicare taxes, they pay over their whole adult life.

[flamingdem]

50. This is the point repukes want us to forget nt

[marlakay]

45. Wouldn't you just love to have him magically

turn 70 with all his money taken away??? Just for 6 months, enough to make him wake up.

[OwnedByFerrets]

51. Yeah asshole, you keep on screaming that to the mountain top. PLEASE!

[peaceforallbeings]

58. Paul Ryan advertises that he is a member of Ducks Unlimited...

Paul Ryan advertises that he is a member of Ducks Unlimited...

[GoCubsGo]

59. Hey, jackass!

Seniors have been paying for their health care all their lives. What the hell do you think that Medicare deduction in one's paycheck is for?

[Vinca]

61. Ryan must figure "what the hell, they're going to die anyway."

How many times can you scream asshole?:mad:

[quaker bill]

62. Nobody takes bids on care when they are sick

In fact no one takes bids on care when they are healthy either. They find a doctor they think they can trust and hope to be able to cover the bill.

About as close as we ever come to taking bids on this is if we have a choice of insurance providers. However, most folks will go with the insurance that covers the Doctor they trust, if they can.

The competition is not over price, it is over trust. Opening the market to further "competition" is irrelevant and will result in no measurable control of costs.

This is the application of an errant philosophical principle based on the notion that people choose Doctors in a rational price centered manner in a way that they don't even use to select shoes.

[and-justice-for-all]

63. Go fuck yourself Ryan, you ignorant piece of shit...nt