Was it really a strategic move by Obama all along?

[Cali_Democrat]

The theory is that Obama knew Boner and the GOP would reject any deal no matter what if it included tax increases, even if Obama offered major spending cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid. Obama knew that they weren't really on the table because the GOP would reject the deal anyways.

So Obama had those programs "on the table" to look moderate and reasonable (though he took flak from the left) while the GOP looks extreme and unwilling to compromise even while most Americans want tax increases on the wealthy. If there is a major economic crisis because of this, the finger can be pointed squarely at the GOP.

I don't know if this is true, but this theory could still hold water considering the way the events unfolded today. But it's only viable as long as Obama doesn't sign a bill that includes large cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

[kiranon]

1. Yes. n/t

[lamp_shade]

2. Yes.

[tallahasseedem]

3. Man I don't know...

my head is still spinning. We shall see!

[CakeGrrl]

4. YES

It's what a few people have been trying to say for a while, but there will be some who won't see it until well after the smoke clears.

[high density]

5. Perhaps

I don't agree that bluffing with Social Security or Medicare is "moderate" or "reasonable," even though the media wants us to think that teabag idea of cutting these is somehow a mainstream opinion.

[cottonseed]

6. The freshman class of Republicans will not pass that bill.

If they vote to raise taxes they are done. The will not have passed it. Obama will get a clean bill. Tea Party and Republican freshman don't want to vote on raising the debt ceiling or raise taxes. I think he went into it thinking this all along.

[Tennessee Gal]

7. The freshman class of Republicans are a bunch of idiots.

Those who voted them in are a bunch of idiots.

Sarah Palin is an idiot.

Michelle Bachmann is an idiot.

Republicans are idiots.

That about says it all in my book.

[awoke_in_2003]

15. and idiots...

seem to make up 50% of our country.

[jeff47]

30. 50% of voters

It's an important distinction. One to emphasize to any of those you meet who don't bother to vote.

[graywarrior]

8. Indeed it was.

[vaberella]

9. He's done this before. Obama has supported many Republican bills--they've ALL failed.

And Republicans/Teahadists, many of whom, pledged not to vote on anything in regards to the debt ceiling. Will not pass anything through the house. So no bill will pass. It's been tested time and time and time again and been proven the same. Obama supports ANYTHING Republican, and they reject their own bills. It's always the damned case. But nothing is correct until people see it done again. These Repub/Teabaggers don't do anything O supports.

[davidpdx]

10. Put me in the not sure column

I do think he is making the Republicans look like chumps. I like everyone here is hoping the debt crisis is averted and Obama comes out of it with the upper hand.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. That's what many of us have been trying to say all along. Larry O'Donnell did it best, though! n/t

[sofa king]

12. I think the objective is to move into secret deliberations.

Once the bill is in closed conference, the Republicans will have to start taking phone calls from their financial overlords, who are pretty much the only Americans left who have anything to lose from a default. It's not difficult to guess that once the cameras are gone, those pussies will do as they're told.

But what if they don't, you ask? Well, if they don't take whatever deal we offer, the President can remind them that a state of national emergency still exists and has since September, 2001 (and was quietly and purposefully extended by President Obama last September), and those circumstances combined with these allow the President to begin "coordinating" Congress himself, starting whenever he wishes and ending never.

The Republicans won't be in much of a position to argue, since it was they who conferred that authority upon the President--or enough authority for Bush's lawyers to take it, run with it, and create this monster of a Presidential Directive. It's a thinly veiled justification for creating a permanent dictatorship, contingent upon an emergency just such as this one that the Republicans are attempting to create.

Oh, hell no, I'm not kidding even a little bit. All of you need to read about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

[woolldog]

13. I highly doubt it.

But as long as they're not cut I don't care. Give him all the credit and call him a chess master as LNG as the programs don't get cut.

[Vattel]

14. I really doubt that the theory is true.

I can't believe anymore that Obama doesn't want a big compromise bill. If Boehner walking out is the sort of thing he wants, he did a damn good job acting really frustrated today at the Press Conference.

[boxman15]

16. We'll find out soon enough.

I think he's truly trying to find middle ground. I don't think he's cynical enough to pull off a trick like that. He's looking to meet in the middle and get something done.

But, I'm open to the possibility of this being a strategic move. It looks like this thing is gonna go down to the wire. That means 3 things can happen:

1. A deal is struck. This makes Obama look moderate and reasonable, someone who can make Washington work, which will help him with re-election chances with independents.
2. A clean vote for raising the debt ceiling is passed. This will help Obama look good to his base, and to independents, who will still see him as the adult in Washington.
3. Default. In this case, no one looks good, but Obama looks the best. He will be able to point the finger at Republicans and the GOP will be sent back decades.

[Parker CA]

17. I think that was too big of a gamble. If the GOP had agreed, I think Obama would've signed on with

the deal. At that point he couldn't walk away. Being that they didn't and he didn't have to, it's all speculation.

[babylonsister]

26. Nope. Obama knew they wouldn't and couldn't agree, given the

whackadoos they're representing. Now they're SOL.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x719101

snip//

...The president knew that Boehner couldn't deliver the votes for any plan with tax increases and so he insisted on tax increases until the very end. He's still insisting on them. At this point, some polls show as many as 80% of the people agreeing with the president's approach. The establishment media is firmly on the president's side. Pretty much any semi-casual observer is on the president's side. Politically, he has crushed the Republicans. The Senate capitulated last week. Even Boehner capitulated last week, except that he's powerless so his capitulation meant nothing. This is also what I said worried me all the way back to when I wrote about my call with the White House. What if Boehner can't deliver even a capitulation? What if he can deliver nothing?

[OwnedByFerrets]

18. Cutting SS and Medicare looks "reasonable"? Not in my world.

[Brickbat]

19. Could be. But I think the metaphor I came up with last week still stands. This was like being in

a car and my spouse is swerving the car all over the road at 80 mph to get the kids in the back to stop bickering. It might work, but it sure changes the way I feel about my spouse.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. Good analogy

and I agree with you completely as to my response.

[ShadowLiberal]

20. If the economy suffers from the debt limit then everyone loses long term, short term doesn't matter

By the economy suffering you can only mean a debt default, or us getting close enough to one for another economic crisis to be set off and stick around even after the debt limit is raised (such as our credit rating being lowered hence higher interest payments even though we eventually pass a debt limit hike).

A situation like that is loser for Obama long term, even if the GOP gets 100% of the blame short term. He still needs the economy to recover enough to win reelection, unless he wants to bank on getting a Sharon Angle type opponent.

[BlueIris]

21. This disaster is the result of the president's obvious lack of a plan.

I knew it was a risk when I voted for him--that the lack of a platform would doom his Administration. Now I know that not only was there no plan, he did not have the desire or skill to make one, or to work with the members of his Party who could have helped him construct one.

I'm a frightened by the precarious place this Administration has left the country in.

[quiller4]

24. No. He had a plan and now he will get what he wants

a straight up vote to raise the debt ceiling with no budget cuts or tax increases--a simple one page bill that can be drafted and passed by both houses in a matter of hours.

[kiranon]

27. Obama will go down in history as one of the most skilled politicians

of all time IMHO.

[Proles]

22. Who knows anymore?

Maybe it was. Honestly I think President Obama is exasperated about the whole situation. That could end up being a good thing, as it usually gets him pretty fired up against the republicans.

I mean, do the American people really have to be Democrats to see how unreasonable the republicans are?

[quiller4]

23. Absolutely.

[Arugula Latte]

25. I don't know. This is how I feel:

:crazy:

[Rosco T.]

28. Of course it was. n/m

[Hydra]

29. No, because he WANTS these cuts

The Republicans know that, so they want MORE.

If we give more and have no revenue increases, it'll look like a STUNNING defeat.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. The proof of the pudding is in the pudding. So who knows?

And what difference does it make? Any voter should simply be advocating for what they think is the correct decision, regardless of the possible strategies. If the whole thing was a set of amorally harsh and indirect ploys to set up the Republicans, what is the part the regular voting Democrats should play? The part of Democrats. Advocating Democratic positions. If it is not a set up, then he most certainly has all the outcries coming to him. If it is a set up, he needs the outcry as a prop to use in his play. Either way, the voter only benefits by advocating their own position. No bluff was ever assisted by a room full of 'allies' snickering and telegraphing the bluff-'way to fool them, man!'. No stupid choice was ever altered by offering up support of anything a person does, because of who they are, not what they are doing.
Unless the President sent you a message saying 'look, when I say I'll make cuts I'm just fooling with the 'pugs, tell your friends' then you need to just act naturally. If he says something you find appalling, sound appalled. He is either deserving of it or asking for it as part of his ploy. Either way, if you are in politics to come out looking as if you had it all sussed all along, you are a worthless component in any battle.

[chill_wind]

32. No. Dem leadership had no fucking clue what his deal was

from one hour to the next. Some of them are probably a bit relieved tonight that Boehner walked away, too.

But now we'll get to raise the debt ceiling because Grover Norquist finally says we can.

Hooray!

[Qutzupalotl]

33. Yes, he read the House correctly.

It's no great feat to assume Republicans will do what they say they will do — vote down all tax increases — but he exposed the new majority as ideologically rigid and extreme. Obama certainly came off more reasonable.

The downside is he was gambling with retirees' 13 cents. Not a huge amount to lose, but it would have counted as a cut. But that in exchange for raising taxes on the rich might be worth it in the long run, I don't know. The political dividend seems to have paid out. The Republicans can't attack him for it, at any rate.

Now, I think the deal is off, we'll get the clean vote on raising the ceiling, but the next budget will have to alter the tax code somehow. I think we can eliminate the Bush tax cuts if we play our cards right.

[Myrina]

34. Oh yes, he's been playing 47 dimensional origami haiku chess

:eyes: WTF-ever.

[xiamiam]

35. No, listen to DeFazio lay it out on the floor..nt

[Hawkowl]

36. Nonsense

The trial balloons were a disaster and the huge negative feedback caused Obama to stiffen his spine as the Congress was spitting mad. See, the Dems in Congress whole strategy was to be the saviors of the big 3. Obama was going to trash their whole election strategy. So, no deal.

Obama has demonstrated ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, ability to formulate a strategic plan, let alone execute one.

[Lugnut]

37. I think it is.

I think he knows very well that Boehner has no control over the wacko-doodle wing of his "tea" party.

[digidigido]

38. The thing that scares me is the "left at the alter line"

By caving as much as he has in the past, he's become the boy who cried wolf.
Now the wolf is here, but who is really listening to him, there is not a lot of progressive cred here.
and the left at the alter line is like the bride who has been stood up, it's not a
really strong visual to create as your image. You have to negotiate with the guy
who has just stood you up. Talk about looking like a pussy,
And then he mentions Rough Rider Ronnie, the man who single handedly destroyed
the air traffic controllers union and brought on the war against unions.
I voted for the guy, and I think he's a very smart man, but I am really disappointed with
his presidency, jesus... Rahm fucking Emanuel, what more does one have to say

[DCBob]

40. I think the President was totally seriious about the deal he was offering..

but always kept in mind the very real possibility that no deal would accepted.

[Vattel]

41. exactly my opinion

[DCBob]

42. seems he was always thinking of the optics in the aftermath should these negotiations fail.

Boener on the other hand was scrambling just to show up and sound sober.

[Vattel]

43. Lol. How can even Republicans take Boehner seriously?

He is a pathetic figure.

[DCBob]

44. indeed.. he and Cantor are a real pair of losers.

[scheming daemons]

45. I've been telling you all this for weeks

[musiclawyer]

46. Potus is not stupid.

He's a centrist but a quick study. Rahm was a mistake so he got rid of him;
He really was not thinking through the house reelection strategy but once he realized how pissed the left was he blew up the negotiations. He really needs a lefty advisor. The centrist advice he gets sucks the enthusiasm out of the room