Are Young Voters & Hispanics Subtly Racist, Too, Melissa? [New]

[KoKo]

Are Young Voters & Hispanics Subtly Racist, Too, Melissa?
Written by Paul Rosenberg

As I’ve said before, many times, no one should doubt the persistence of white racism. And liberals, of course, are not immune. No one is. Even those who are themselves victims of racism. Internalized racial self-hatred is a serious problem, so it would be absurd to claim that liberals are somehow exempt. But it’s equally absurd to claim that liberal racism is the reason Obama’s approval ratings are down, when those ratings remain far higher than his ratings from most other groups–including others who originally gave him ratings almost as high as liberals did, but now rate him signicantly lower. Such as, young voters, 18-29, for example. Or, to a lesser extent, Hispanics. Both groups have soured on Obama mort than liberals have, and for a very straight-forward reason: He has seriously disappointed them on the issues. Not so much because he didn’t get things done, but because he didn’t even try. Or–particularly obvious with Hispanics, because he did things that spat in their faces. And, using Gallup’s weekly polling data, here’s what the results look like:



In short, Obama’s approval ratings among liberals are down, because he has disappointed them, and some of them, at least, are starting to notice. Melissa Harris-Perry, a huge Obama fan, may not like that. And she’s entitled to her own feelings. But she’s not entitled to her own facts. There is simply no data to support her accusation that liberals are abandoning Obama because of subtle racism on their part. Not unless she wants to make even stronger accusations against a whole lot of other people as well.

Obama ran as one person, and he has governed as quite another. And it hasn’t worked out well at all. And that’s the reason why almost everyone outside the black community has cooled on their views of how well he’s doing his job. Some of that may well be due to racism. But liberals have cooled on him less than others have, and still approve of him more. The real problem with liberal criticism is that it’s not that easy to just blow off. Which is where Melissa Harris-Perry’s Nation piece comes in. But, as the chart above makes clear, just crying “racism” when there are no facts to support the claim, isn’t such an easy way to blow off liberal criticism either.

MORE.........
http://www.merge-left.org/2011/10/02/are-young-voters-hispanics-subtly-racist-too-melissa/

[Confusious]

1. That sword has a double edge

and very sharp. always have to be careful where you swing it.

Sometimes, if you swing it wildly, it comes back and cuts you.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

4. Hmmm?

Obamas numbers are down because he sucks as a President. He sucks at negotiation and has given away the store one too many times for peoples liking. Race has got nothing to do with it. And anyone using that as an excuse is pathetic.

Bitterness, hate, race, it's something.

[treestar]

6. Than so was Clinton

Yet he had no troubles of the kind.

[woolldog]

8. You must not have been around during clintons tenure.

Because (1) there was plenty of dissatisfaction with some of the way he did things. But (2) there wasn't this huge gulf between the way he campaigned and the way he governed. And (3) the thing that turned around my view (and the country's id argue) of Clinton was bow he handled the government shut down. People don't want to see their President getting pushed around by the speaker of the house, and the debt ceiling thing is what's precipitated O's decline in popularity. He had a chance to do something bold and use the 14th amendment or threaten to, but he wussed out. Everyone saw that and it cost him a good bit of respect in the eyes of the average American.

[ProSense]

10. Hmmm?

You must not have been around during clintons tenure....But (2) there wasn't this huge gulf between the way he campaigned and the way he governed. And (3) the thing that turned around my view (and the country's id argue) of Clinton was bow he handled the government shut down. People don't want to see their President getting pushed around by the speaker of the house, and the debt ceiling thing is what's precipitated O's decline in popularity.

Maybe it's you who missed it. Does health care and DADT ring a bell? Clinton's number dropped significantly during the shut down, they climb back after. The Republicans then went on to impeach him. I mean, here you are making excuses for Clinton using twisted facts.

[woolldog]

19. As I said:

Clinton never campaigned as a progressive. I though DADT was stupid and he botched healthcare.

And did I say his numbers went up during the shutdown? No. I said people respected that he showed some balls and when he won the face off with Gingrich his numbers went up. It was the turning point in his presidency when he stood up and wouldn't let the bully GOP walk all over him. Were still waiting for that moment by obama. America likes their presidents to be winners. Clinton won that issue. Obama lost his.

[ProSense]

20. So

Clinton never campaigned as a progressive. I though DADT was stupid and he botched healthcare.

And did I say his numbers went up during the shutdown? No. I said people respected that he showed some balls and when he won the face off with Gingrich his numbers went up. It was the turning point in his presidency when he stood up and wouldn't let the bully GOP walk all over him. Were still waiting for that moment by obama. America likes their presidents to be winners. Clinton won that issue. Obama lost his.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

34. Any one elected President is a winner by definition

Enough with this vagueness.

So if Clinton did not campaign as a progressive, then you would have been considerably less enthusiastic in campaigning for him than for Obama.

[woolldog]

41. Sure, I agree with you.

Obama is a wonderful, supremely accomplished man. Just not a particularly good President.

And I was much less enthusiastic about Clinton than I was about Obama. Not even close.

[Denzil_DC]

14. McConnell was around during Clinton's tenure

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell says it was easier to deal with former President Bill Clinton than President Barack Obama because Clinton was more interested in moving to the political center and making progress.

“President Obama, at least so far, has pretty much clung to the political left, as if he needed to motivate his own very liberal supporters,” the Kentucky Republican told Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren Thursday night.

McConnell did concede, however, that Obama “inherited a tough situation.” But he said the president “has made it worse” by not working more closely with Republicans. Describing Obama, “as a very, very liberal guy,” McConnell said the president, should follow Clinton’s example and move to the center “to make progress on a bipartisan basis.”

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/McConnell-Clinton-Obama-jobs/2011/10/07/id/413611

[woolldog]

17. I can't believe anyone would offer up McConnel's

words as proof of anything.

I don't have to rely on that POS McConnel's recollections.

[Denzil_DC]

18. Doesn't fit your narrative, huh? n/t

[woolldog]

21. If you're lifting your talking points from McConnel, then

you're the one desperate to find something, anything to fit your narrative". Good day to you sir.

[Denzil_DC]

23. Bullshit

He actually had to contend with both of them, and you have no answer to that.

[woolldog]

24. What's next:

citing the opinions of newt Gingrich and rush limbaugh as authoritative? lol

[Denzil_DC]

25. Weak.

But I'll bear that in mind next time I see a RW source cited that criticizes Obama here!

[woolldog]

26. lemme put it this way Denzil,

I don't trust a word McConnell says. Everything he says and does is colored by his agenda (partly racist I'm sure) of denigrating and delegitimizing Obama. It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would use Clinton in an attempt to do this because it creates a false impression of evenhandedness and in doing that tries to make it seem like Obama is the unreasonable one, i.e. "look i dont hate all democrats. I like Clinton and worked with hm. This obama guy on the other hand is so unreasonable. I'm not being partisan because I like Clinton! Never mind that i tried to impreach the guy!"

.Bullshit. And shame on you for falling for it, Denzil. Obamas problem is not that he's being unreasonable n his demands vis a vis the GOP.

[treestar]

36. Why is McConnell's POV nonexistent?

You can't make Republicans and their influence go away by just pretending they don't exist.

[treestar]

35. McConnell must know Americans like winners, no?

So why is he admitting to more defeat under Obama than Clinton?

[Hippo_Tron]

27. I highly doubt Mitch McConnell was saying that during Clinton's tenure

He was probably bitching about how allegedly liberal and out of touch Clinton was, just like nearly every other Republican was at the time. If Mitch McConnell is still in the Senate during the next Democratic President's tenure, he'll be talking about how easy it was to deal with Obama by comparison.

[treestar]

33. Clinton didn't have to use "something bold like the 14th Amendment."

That was not easy, it was risky

Clinton was not threatened with default, just government shut down.

Why is that? Even the Republicans should be asked that question.

[Mr Deltoid]

39. Clinton was impeached

Stop whining.

[treestar]

45. Which was his own fault

for lying under oath about a personal matter. You are changing the subject.

Politically Clinton was not challenged with nearly as much. He was never challenged with a default. Had had been, there is no proof he would have been so "bold" as to invoke the 14th Amendment - in fact there is good reason to believe he would have had the sense to avoid that too.

[Beacool]

51. They would have found some other reason to impeach him.

Starr happened to luck out with the tapes that Linda Tripp gave him. BTW, recordings that were illegally taped.

I don't think that the Founding Fathers had in mind that some day lying about a sexual affair would be an impeachable offense.

So yes, it may have been partially Bill's fault but not by much.

:-(

[pscot]

46. If we had wanted more Clinton

we would have supported Hilary. We learned a lesson from the Clinton experience. We expected somethng different from Obama. not a move to the right.

[Beacool]

52. Well, since more people did vote for Hillary the point is moot.

The super delegates decided the nominee in 2008.

:shrug:

[ProSense]

3. Here's

a poll

[Supersedeas]

30. that fleshes it out a bit

[treestar]

5. Maybe.

Why not? You ask the question as if it's out of the question. Of course young people can hold a black person to a higher standard than a white person. Of course Hispanics could do so.

Melissa's point was that if Clinton was enthusiastically elected in 1996, then Obama should be enthusiastically re-elected next year.

[MNBrewer]

47. I didn't vote for Clinton's re-election

Haven't decided about Obama yet.

[tblue]

7. Does she call white liberals racist if they don't vote for Herman Cain?

Full disclosure: I am exactly as black as our president, not that it should matter.

Professor HP is way too invested in President Obama to worry about what she says, I'm sorry. She's just too much of an unconditional supporter to take for anything more than that. What she wrote, for one thing, about President Clinton and DADT was intellectually dishonest and really unfair. I remember clearly how that policy was formed, back in the days of witch hunts and blackmail, when gays were not allowed to serve even if they stayed in the closet.

So if she uses that to say white liberals, who voted and volunteered in droves for Obama, have suddenly become or started acting like racists, then shame on her. It's too ridiculous a point to merit further discussion, except that it causes unnecessary rifts and turns people off.

[Vattel]

11. You nailed it.

[ProSense]

12. Not

"You nailed it."

..really.

This makes no sense: "Does she call white liberals racist if they don't vote for Herman Cain?"

[Vattel]

13. Let me be more specific.

Here's the part that nailed it:

Professor HP is way too invested in President Obama to worry about what she says, I'm sorry. She's just too much of an unconditional supporter to take for anything more than that. What she wrote, for one thing, about President Clinton and DADT was intellectually dishonest and really unfair. I remember clearly how that policy was formed, back in the days of witch hunts and blackmail, when gays were not allowed to serve even if they stayed in the closet.

So if she uses that to say white liberals, who voted and volunteered in droves for Obama, have suddenly become or started acting like racists, then shame on her. It's too ridiculous a point to merit further discussion, except that it causes unnecessary rifts and turns people off.

[ProSense]

15. Then let me

Here's the part that nailed it:

Professor HP is way too invested in President Obama to worry about what she says, I'm sorry. She's just too much of an unconditional supporter to take for anything more than that. What she wrote, for one thing, about President Clinton and DADT was intellectually dishonest and really unfair. I remember clearly how that policy was formed, back in the days of witch hunts and blackmail, when gays were not allowed to serve even if they stayed in the closet.

So if she uses that to say white liberals, who voted and volunteered in droves for Obama, have suddenly become or started acting like racists, then shame on her. It's too ridiculous a point to merit further discussion, except that it causes unnecessary rifts and turns people off.

...be more specific. Not only was the post title nonsense, but this is a complete misrepresentation of Perry's point, and seem heavily focused on defending Clinton.

[Dr Fate]

32. You nailed it again. Those Liberals are as racist as the day is long. Nt

Nt

[Supersedeas]

29. where are the droves of white liberals who have suddenly become racists?

Is it a shame to ask an academic to provide more support for her theory about Obama's supposed lagging poll numbers?

Right, evidence can be so silly, so ridiculous. And evidence like the above doesn't merit much discussion either.

[ProSense]

38. How

"where are the droves of white liberals who have suddenly become racists?"

...many times does it have to be repeated that the point was specifically about a double standard for the willful ignorance to end?

[Supersedeas]

49. Is

that the evidentiary support that you are offering in response to this thread?

[treestar]

37. Fail

Cain is a right winger. We can vote against him for that alone.

Whereas Obama is a Democrat. Democrats failing to support another Democrat and holding him to a higher standard. That's a different subject.

[Mr Deltoid]

40. Fail

No higher standard held. Strawman based on a long ago debunked article.

[EffieBlack]

42. The fact that you don't agree with an article doesn't mean it was "debunkrd"

Lots of people - including me - agreed with it. Lots of people - including you- disagreed with it. Your objection to it does not "debunk" it any more than our agreement with it conclusively proves it.

[Mr Deltoid]

43. It does not hold water

100 percent
wishful thinking. No hard facts to back up the claims. You are flogging a dead horse.

[treestar]

44. If you're talking about Melissa's now famous article

It has not been debunked, and it makes a cogent and clear argument supported with history.

[msongs]

9. those "people of NO color" are just a bunch of pests lol nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. Merge Left?

:rofl:

Oh, and Unrec.

[LittleBlue]

28. We're all racist

Harry-Parris said so and someone gave her a PhD in something.

:crazy:

[Dr Fate]

31. It's always the ones who refuse to admit it.

It's in all the psychology books.

[slackmaster]

48. Most people have some degree of racism IMO

Some express it more than others.

[Puglover]

50. Jane Elliott affected me greatly when I saw her workshop

Brown eyes/Blue eyes. She contends that it is impossible to grow up in the US and not have some degree of racism ingrained in you. I happen to agree. What is important is to recognize it and work on it. I do. Everyday.

[SidDithers]

53. Oh look, someone else who didn't understand MHP...nt

Sid