Before this gets too crazy...let's be CAREFUL about what's being celebrated

[Ken Burch]

A vile man is, apparently, dead. I don't mourn him and know of no one else who will either.

But the pursuit of this man(assuming that our forces actually killed him as opposed to his simply succombing, at long last, to kidney failure)led to the deaths or many, many people in Afghanistan AND Iraq...few of whom had any connection to the man, or his crazy militia/cult, and few of whom deserved to suffer for the repulsiveness of his actions.

If Osama is dead, that STILL doesn't vindicate the Iran or Afghan wars OR the idea of U.S. intervention in the Middle East. It still doesn't justify the human cost. And it's not at all likely to turn into the ability to achieve progressive outcomes at home.

What we're actually going to see now, unless I miss my guess, is a rise in "superpatriot" emotions, emotions that are almost always tied to right-wing politics, emotions that OUR party will not benefit from.

In the meantime, Afghanistan needs to be rebuilt and the imperial mindset embraced by the leaders of both parties in this country needs to be challenged and resisted at every turn, because if it isn't, all that we hold dear as progressive-minded people will be swept away in another ugly tide of American exceptionalist arrogance.

Be wary of all that. Show restraint. And mourn the innocent dead.

Sorry if I'm not in a "Yea, Team!" mood tonight...but war isn't a sporting event and death, even of loathesome people, shouldn't be celebrated. Every time we DO celebrate someone's death, we kiss a little of our humanity goodbye.

[socialshockwave]

1. He celebrated the death of innocent people

Why shouldn't we celebrate when the scum fucker got his?

I wish I could have watched him die slowly. Then again, that's just me.

[Dorian Gray]

20. He didn't just celebrate their deaths

He orchestrated them. On that note, I'm pleased that justice is served. I don't celebrate his death or wish him everlasting burning in Hell or anything. But I'm glad that his death may bring some justice and peace to the families of those that lost loved ones on 9-11.

[Carolina]

30. and Americans

haven't orchestrated and celebrated the deaths of innocents in Afghanistan and Iraq???!!!!!

Bin Laden was blowback. We (the US) trained him to be destructive in an effort to bring down the USSR. Just as was installed Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah...

And there will be more blowback, more bin Ladens, because of the US post 9/11 actions against innocents!

[El Supremo]

2. I agree, but remember that there are still a lot of other Taliban leaders out there.

The war will go on.

[Ken Burch]

4. That's true...and, if our troops did indeed kill the bastard, they'll want payback

I'd advise anyone against flying anywhere anytime soon.

[El Supremo]

8. Why not fly? You going to let them win?

However "win" is a poor choice of words. Nobody ever wins.

[RandomThoughts]

3. I thought the same thing.

All the Yea team, is an effect of the loading of the name Bin Laden, with the perpetual war and terror thoughts.

Those feelings are released as a victory exhale for those that had that macro loaded.


I think it is mostly about the concept or war on terror that is defeated, more then some individual, the idea of perpetual war, becuase I think him not being announced dead was for other reasons.

[bbinacan]

5. Well I'm sorry

I will celebrate this asshole's death. I would gladly shit down his dead throat and piss in his dead eyes.FUCK HIM!!!!!!!

[Puregonzo1188]

6. Thank you--bin Laden was a thug and a mass murder, but the explosion of jingoism, hero worship, and

bloodlust here makes me very uncomfortable.

[elocs]

9. I think the vast majority here won't lose any sleep over your being uncomfortable. n/t

[tigereye]

12. yes, that's how I feel. After all this time, it just seems kind

of unreal.

[seabeyond]

7. all i care about, mission accomplished. we won. bring the troops home. nt

[tigereye]

10. yes, the guy was an evil fuck. But somehow celebrating

doesn't seem to be in the cards, at least for me. So much horror and destruction followed in this man's wake. :(

[dflprincess]

14. I agree. Celebrating why these useless wars drag on (and expand) makes no sense

I don't think Bin Laden's death is worth what it cost us. When you think of all the people killed and maimed and the damage the wars have done to our economy you have to wonder who really won.

[GSLevel9]

11. btw... MILLIONS WILL mourn him. nt

[Ken Burch]

13. The scary part is, he might end up as the next silk-screen hero in the majority of the world

He's no Che, but a lot of people will see him that way now. We may just have created a monster.

[SDuderstadt]

19. Your concern is noted...

Burch.

You may go now, dude.

[mountainlion55]

15. OBL is dead.

He took credit for 9-11 and he reaped his reward. As far as all this celebrating and flag waving goes, imo its ignorant of the facts of our MIC and the death and destruction it causes.How about a drone attack on the house of saud. After all it was supposedly 19 Saudi's that drove the planes was it not? Oh yeah I forgot we are trying to get our hands on Libya's light sweet crude right now. Maybe we can do the drone attack later.:smoke:

[Cleita]

16. Thanks for some sanity in what is an

insane night in an insane week. I think I need a DU break now.

[donheld]

17. Can we have a few hours to celebrate?

[TheKentuckian]

25. I think that is the thing, what are you celebrating and why?

I don't get the sense of release, myself. I don't feel healed, relieved, safer, or that a tide has turned. Have we broken the opposition and are sending the scurrying and confused? Can we leave Afghanistan in short order or no not really.

My response to the news was "good" but dancing in the streets seems strange, what have we won for our emptied treasury and thousands of sacrifices? What is different going forward?

Will we have peace? That is worth of celebration. Have we made the land free of a shadow? That would be cause for celebration. Have we heralded new life into the world? That would be cause for celebration. Have we broken the yoke of an oppressor? That would be cause for celebration.


I see a rabid dog put down and a threat removed. It is a good thing but since there is no indication that the broader threat has changed, there is little cause to do the Ewok style celebration.

[marions ghost]

32. Right

"no indication that the broader threat has changed" --What's scary is that people seem to think it has.

OBL has had a great influence on the world. He can definitely say "Mission Accomplished." How does his actual physical death change that?

[crickets]

18. "He who fights with monsters should look to it

that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

K&R

[guardian]

29. You must be referring to the TSA. n/t

[MoonRiver]

21. This kind of operation is what should have happened from the get go.

We didn't even NEED to go to war.

[PVnRT]

22. I generally agree

This is what should have been done in October of 2001. Small, highly trained force, quick strike, bring him in or kill him in the attempt. Instead we start two wars and cause untold misery. I'm not sad about Osama being dead, good fucking riddance, but I can't bring myself to celebrate, either. I don't mind those that do in this case, however, especially those who knew someone who died on 9/11, or on the Cole, or at the African embassies.

[deutsey]

26. My sentiments as well. n/t

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

24. "If Osama is dead, that STILL doesn't vindicate the Iran or Afghan wars"

We're at war with Iran?

Why does the Afghan war that was voted on by Congress need to be vindicated?

"In the meantime, Afghanistan needs to be rebuilt"

Osama bin Laden's death mean people no longer want to see Afghanistan rebuilt?

How many excuse do there need to be to justify why people shouldn't cheer the death of the evil bastard?

[Ken Burch]

31. Iraq. It was a typo.

This wasn't VE Day. And the people of Afghanistan never deserved to suffer for Bin Laden. They weren't collectively responsible for that the Taliban did.

[woo me with science]

27. Thank you.

I remember the horrific pictures of people celebrating and dancing in the streets when the towers came down. It is a great accomplishment for the administration and good that an evil man is gone, but the flag waving and jubilation are uncomfortable to me. This should not be a "Go team!" moment with beer and chips.

[Carolina]

28. K&R

I don't understand the celebration and the "rah, rah" attitude particularly on the radio where I live.

I cannot get past all the death and destruction the US has wrought since 9/11
I cannot get past all the future bin Ladens spawned by the post 9/11 actions of the US
AND importantly, I cannot get past the fact that bin Laden was "our guy." The US trained him to be destructive in an effort to bring down a mighty power (USSR).

I feel his capture and death should make us all pause and ask some serious questions about ourselves as Americans!