Government starts walking back some of the more obvious propaganda claims...

[JackRiddler]

Now the story emerging in today's White House briefing is that OBL was not armed or shooting, and no women were used as human shields. Those of you with memories of the fake Saddam statue toppling or the exploitation of Pat Tillman will hardly be surprised at this stage of the process -- meanwhile, most of the world heard first reports that they may end up remembering as true. (Some people even still believe in the incubator babies, to judge by a few isolated posts here.) My point is about the stage management and propaganda exploitation of the event, not the often unknowable truth that may be inside the black box.

[seabeyond]

1. it really behooves all of us to sit back and wait a tad for emotions and news catch up with reportin

event.

i dont think it has to be conspiracy

[JackRiddler]

3. Yes. Though I don't even know what your second statement means...

This part: "i dont think it has to be conspiracy."

Sounds like a shibboleth. What does "conspiracy" even mean?

Just looking at reports as they come in, for now: the stuff about OBL shooting and using a woman as a shield comes from somewhere. It's out of a standard propaganda book, techniques of demonizing the enemy dating back decades and centuries. Someone made it up, so it's safe to call it a lie. It indicates stage management, by more than one person presumably. Doesn't matter whether you think of that as "conspiracy" (except that this word is a thought-stopper) or as an element of "public relations strategy." Either way, it's a little bit of brainwash now, isn't it?

[seabeyond]

11. no. the story of the woman is a story told before it should. first it is a woman shield. then wife

as shield. then wife as shield yet gun protecting obl.

that tells you people have pieces and dont really know yet.

then, in the evening, obama clarified what happened. less than 24 hrs. in any event, and one so huge, being asked questions and sincerely trying to answer, without really having the answer.

it is pretty obvious and happens with every. damn. story. that is rushed for information

but instead of concluding the obvious, you go propaganda.

whatever

i prefer to sit back and listen and then decide.

[tekisui]

24. Maybe the government should do the same. They are asking for

it by overstating and misstating.

[seabeyond]

25. brennen got it wrong yesterday morning. where the beginning of shit with dead woman shield came

from, i dont know.

but the man should have said, dont know. instead he tried to answer the question. was confused. and gave a confused answer.

you are right

but damn.... the little patience we have with people.

we are the ones DEMANDING the info now and if not we are the ones making shit up....

[tekisui]

28. But, the government presents this story as one that was watched

in real time by them. They claim it was all documented. So, when they tell us something it had better line up with any evidence to come later.

[seabeyond]

29. obama did. he heard brenner and specifically corrected. NO MISTAKES

NO CONFUSION

or the very worst will be thrown at you.

i simply cannot argue this hard line position when we the public and media have absolutely no responsibility in our demands that create this. i am watching du explode.... today and yesterday because by god.... they dont have ALL the info right here and right now as we demand, yet then, tell them take time to make sure all is understood before speaking. yet we take whatever info, no matter how illogical, unreasonable or contradictive and present as fact adn then insist it be debunked by adm.

not how i see life

[Skinner]

2. There is another possible expanation.

The operation was very chaotic, lots of people have different recollections, and after the fact it takes a few days to figure out what, exactly, happened.

My understanding is that most of the details that have come out so far have been from anonymous sources. I think the trickle of changes we are hearing is because the administration is trying to get the facts right.

[valerief]

4. Yeah, those Navy SEALS are scatterbrains. They wouldn't remember what happened.

:sarcasm:

[Skinner]

8. Give me a break. I was not insulting Navy Seals.

Navy Seals are human.

And anonymous sources (who are probably not Navy Seals) are often full of crap.

[Solomon]

30. I think you're right on this one. It's the administration that is trying

to correct misleading statements. I keep hearing other people claim that "the government" said so and so. But was it "the government" or somebody else? They don't care. People are looking for stuff to gripe about.

[valerief]

31. But I couldn't resist! nt

[seabeyond]

32. more like a steady stream of jabs from you since ths thing happened. nt

[JackRiddler]

6. Fog of war is always possible...

However, these two items in particular both convey a moral judgement. They're not quite like confusion about how the helicopter fell. These two items paint a demonic villain, they're like a Hollywood script of the bad guy's demise. So it's also possible they're coming out of the standard war propaganda playbook, dating back forever.

[Skinner]

12. And now the administration is trying to get the facts right.

Seems to me that you should be giving them props.

[JackRiddler]

16. I'll watch and I will, if it turns out so.

[uppityperson]

26. Indeed. The Need for Instant News often means inaccurate news.

I give them props for trying to get the facts straight. Accuracy is more important than speed.

However, others may feel different and some will never be happy, rather a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation" at times.

[FLPanhandle]

7. Stop being reasonable and logical.

It interferes with emotional outrage. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. This is, of course, the obvious explanation to anyone

but a paranoid.

Debriefing. It's not just a softer version of the wedgie.

[grasswire]

10. you can bet that the Bushies spread the shit deep ASAP

Their Rovian mission (probably developed even prior to Bush leaving office when he started to worry about his legacy) was to frame any success of Obama in the "war on terror" in ways that support Bush.

Framing is made successful in the first moments and hours after an event. They already had deployed loyalists here and there in the media. Fran Townsend, for example. Able to catapault the propaganda immediately after the event.

The seed is planted already that the intel came from detainees. Unfortunately.

[tabatha]

13. Yes, I have read stories

in other newspapers that were simply not true - just made up because there had been no details from the WH - such as 20 people were killed, and the helicopter went down because it was attacked by gunfire, not a mechanical failure.

These lies did not emanate from the WH but from a reporter's imagination.

And the claim that the WH is bullshitting is just as bad because it is from someone's imagination.

The pot calling the kettle black.

But, what is disturbing is that the accusers do not realize that they are doing what they are accusing others of doing.

[seabeyond]

14. WH is bullshitting is just as bad because it is from someone's imagination

exactly. and right on with all your post

[Taverner]

15. Rashomon Syndrome - That's what I think too

[elias49]

17. AKA get their story straight? nt

[deutsey]

18. Well, it probably would've been in everyone's best interest

if the Administration had simply said something like: "These are the facts that have been verified (1,2,3). Anything else being reported at this time is unconfirmed. We will release more facts as we confirm them."

[Skinner]

19. Do they really need to do that?

I think the assumption should be that any facts that don't come from the administration are not actually confirmed by the administration.

[seabeyond]

23. obviously, lol. read this thread. lordy, ..... nt

[deutsey]

33. Apparently they do, otherwise would we be discussing this?

The bigger issue, imo, is how the Democrats in particular don't seem to know shit about how the media circus works today.

Kerry let the swiftboat rumors grow into an avalanche. Obama lost control of the message early on with the whole "death panel" "birther" bullshit. You'd think they'd learn by now how the echo chamber works and would have some kind of strategy to at least counterbalance the nattering nabobs out there.

What I suggested here (or something like it) would've been easy enough to say and at least put out there that "unnamed sources" telling fabulous tales of bin Laden going down in a hail of bullets while engaged in a gunfight or using wives as human sheilds aren't legit until we confirm them.

Now, all the backtracking just reinforces suspicions that something fishy is going on with the story.

But what the fuck do I know? I guess it's more entertaining this way.

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Let's not forget that the M$M, whose individual news services rushes to be first to post a single

word often gets initial reports wrong.

I can't count how many times the first part of a breaking story turns out to be wrong in retrospect.

[JackRiddler]

34. The stories that OBL was armed and that a human shield was used came initially from the Pentagon.

MSM just reported.

[Romulox]

5. I need an update on the compound's baby incubators. I fear the worst! nt

[Morning Dew]

20. Think clones.

Millions of Bin Laden clones!!

[flamingdem]

21. This same information is appearing on right wing news sites to undermine Obama's success nt

[JackRiddler]

22. It would be wrong if right-wingers use it that way.

Given the frequent bogus events we saw under Bush (the Saddam statue toppling, Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, etc.)