Our tax dollars were used to kill him. I think we deserve a photo.

[Paradoxical]

Scared that the photo may be too graphic?

Don't ever watch Saving Private Ryan. Or play any violent video game, for that matter. Actually, you should probably just go live in a cave for the rest of your life.

Frightened by the possibility of reprisal?

Might want to ignore the last decade or so of life in the real world.

We should trust what our government says to us?

I think we should simply form a Ministry of Truth to make sure the government is being honest. I mean, it's really none of our business, right?


We've spent $1.2 trillion dollars since 2001 fighting the war on terror. The very least we deserve is some photographic evidence that our money was used to do the things we are being told were done. Especially when it involves killing one of the most prominent figures of the terror movement.

[robinlynne]

1. and if that photo provokes 1000 more deaths? still worth it?

[tabatha]

2. +1000

[Paradoxical]

3. Yes.

You don't hide the truth because it's dangerous. That's reserved for dystopian novels.

[LLStarks]

10. I don't necessarily agree, but that's profound. nt

[JVS]

16. By that logic you would have to condemn his killing, as it too may provoke 1000 more deaths.

[Paradoxical]

22. Nice going. You just destroyed the space time continuum.

[krabigirl]

19. Doubt it will provoke any more deaths than our military prescence there does anyway.

[Imagevision]

46. Show the faceless Osama and Americans traveling abroad become instant targets

[Paradoxical]

47. I am literally flying to Africa in less than two weeks.

[uppityperson]

64. You are literally flying to Africa, not just figuratively flying to Africa?

Sorry, overuse of "literally" is a pet peeve.

[foreigncorrespondent]

50. Some how...

...if it is true and he is dead, then I think the fact that OBL is dead is enough in the terrorist mind to provoke.

[EFerrari]

54. This isn't 2001. That photo will not provoke 1000 more deaths.

The drones that go out over Pakistan might. The lack of electricity in Iraq might. The check points where families keep getting killed in Afghanistan might. But the photograph of someone who has barely been active in the last ten years? It's not going to happen.

That is an excuse.

[readmoreoften]

60. Exactly. Why not a scenario where it PREVENTS more deaths from demoralizing the enemy.

It's just a convenient narrative. Show the fucking photos and stop playing coy.

[EFerrari]

63. They don't want the photos out because they are evidence

of a targeted assassination.

[readmoreoften]

59. Did the photo of dead Che Guevara provoke more deaths? No.

No one believed it until they saw the photos. From what I'm reading on Facebook a lot of the middle east thinks we're full of shit. Or, as people here put it, they're "deathers." They have the audacity not to trust the US government at face value.

[Swede]

4. And if Obama had released them,you'd be pissing about that.

nt

[Paradoxical]

5. I literally just laughed out loud.

Fucking nonsense. Try from another angle.

[REP]

9. Me too, but for another reason

I love your posts.

[readmoreoften]

61. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all "hate" your hero. Come up with a new shtick, please.

It's getting fucking old. No, I don't trust or like your hero. I am capable of saying whether or not I agree or disagree with his actions. I'd probably agree more often if you acolytes didn't run around with your heads screaming every time he doesn't completely screw people over.

[dionysus]

80. ca-ching!!!! we have a winner folks!

[flor-de-jasmim]

6. You're missing the point.

What is important is not the satisfaction of the desires of Americans for a trophy photo, but to not further incite radicals. SIX YEARS after the publication of the Danish cartoons (if you do not remember the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy, there is still fallout: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:s0lL3UAzH7sJ:articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-09-30/europe/28252633_1_flemming-rose-cartoons-jyllands-posten+danish+cartoons+fallout+2010&cd=9&hl=da&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com

I'm glad the President understands the larger issues.

[Paradoxical]

11. I will not live my life in fear of inciting radicals.

I'd rather die.

[Mz Pip]

25. I know that I do not want to die

because someone's curiousity needed to be satisfied. It's not about fear as much as it is about prevention.

How is releasing the photos any different than Terry Jones burning the Koran? What good can come of it? If some lives are spared by not doing it isn't that worth it?

[Paradoxical]

28. You wrongly conflate reaction with action. I did not kill you because I was curious.

Someone else did. That's the person you should be angry at.

[Mz Pip]

34. True

but there is that saying about yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater.

What's the point of further exacerbating an already volatile situation, especially when it can be avoided?

[Paradoxical]

38. Do you have any other logical fallacies you'd like to violate?

[Mz Pip]

41. I see nothing illogical or fallacious

about wanted to avoid unnecessary bloodshed. But knock yourself out.

[Paradoxical]

43. As I said up-thread, you don't hide the truth because it's dangerous.

[Mz Pip]

44. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Reality is more nuanced.

And yeah, sometimes you should hide things because they are dangerous.

[Paradoxical]

45. Reality is fairly straight forward. You synthesize the nuance.

[JVS]

18. see 16

[REP]

7. Those are silly, silly arguments

No photo is needed because adults don't need to look at photos of dead bodies unless it's part of their job.

You cited movies and games. You are aware that those are not real, and were created using makeup, computers and other devices of illusion? No one really got shot in the head to make Tom Hanks's movie.

If you really want to see a body with its head blown off, you can find one of Kurt Cobain on line.

[Paradoxical]

8. *whiff*

[REP]

12. I had a feeling that would go right over your head, and it did.

[Paradoxical]

20. No, you.

[REP]

21. AWESOME comeback. Truly.

[Paradoxical]

23. No, seriously, you.

[REP]

26. I know - mine was good good lovin'. Yours? Good for nothin'

[Paradoxical]

29. RANDOM SHIT

[REP]

30. Yes, I am aware of your posting habits

[Paradoxical]

31. *hiss* *scratch*

[REP]

Erm, pussy want some catnip?

I love cats!

[Paradoxical]

33. Well now you're just making me horny.

[REP]

35. Okay. I'll stop.

[Paradoxical]

42. Mock turtle soup does not actually contain turtle, its main ingredient is an entire cow’s head.

http://www.mentalfloss.com/amazingfactgenerator/

[BlueCaliDem]

36. Ooh...ZING. Good one, REP. eom

[DevonRex]

13. Stupidest post I've read here in the last hour or so.

And after all the posts that have been moved to the dungeon that's saying a lot.

[REP]

15. Just the last few hours?

Lately, it's like mining comedy gold around here and this is the motherlode!

[DevonRex]

37. That's the truth.

:hi:

[BlueCaliDem]

39. Agreed. Maybe someone can photoshop one to placate the blood-thirsty. eom

[readmoreoften]

62. How about for the millions of people in the ME who think Obama's full of shit

and who don't buy any of it. Is the only reason why people would want to see proof of an assassination "blood lust?" Do people who perform autopsies have "blood lust"? Is it morbid to request one?

Basically, what you're saying is that the world should shut up and trust the US government. Ain't gonna happen. If they want to prove Bin Laden is dead, show the world he's dead. Not too complicated.

[EFerrari]

55. It's not stupid in the least. The photographs the Pentagram takes

don't belong to Robert Gates or to Obama. They belong to us.

[dionysus]

81. keep reading, you'll find one that tops it in short order....

:hi:

[Modern_Matthew]

14. I agree. People are deluded to believe there's an elaborate network out there...

Capable of enacting revenge across the world. We haven't had a terrorist attack in 10 years. Even the ones that have slipped through the cracks of security have failed miserably. Islamic extremism is nothing but a fucking joke and the only fear that remains is left over from Bush-era fairy tales about armies of men, women, and children ready to suicide bomb anything at any given time, on any given corner. Preposterous.

Now release the damn photo and stop being so damn secretive.

[Rex]

17. But there are photos all over the www.

Why the need for Obama to do it? I'm beginning to believe people won't be satisfied until they see Osama's long form birth certificate (to prove it was him). :sarcasm:

[rbrnmw]

24. I have 5 kids I don't want them seeing that

And no matter what people say it would incite ALQ and cost American lives

[Paradoxical]

32. Don't show it to them. Censorship is reactionary bullshit.

[BlueCaliDem]

40. So are your arguments. eom

[truedelphi]

56. Your kids don't have access to a TV?

Jon Stewart was spot on tonight when he pointed out that most Americans watch CSI programs, Law and Order, Bones, Criminal Minds, etc.

And yes, if your kids are very young, I can understand your concern. So maybe folks with young kids wouldn't watch the Usama footage on TV but on the internet, with the Kiddie Filters at high alert. -

[rbrnmw]

73. my kids go to school their friends have laptops

and ipads. CSI doesn't show the kind of ghoulish images, I saw in the ones already released

[kestrel91316]

27. My tax dollars killed god-knows how many SE Asians in the Vietnam War.

Doesn't mean I need to see photos of THEM dead.

My tax dollars have paid for HOW many executions of convicted murderers over the years. Doesn't mean I need to see photos of them dead either.

This is a rather bizarre way of thinking of things that you have come up with.

[Javaman]

88. +1 nt

[quinnox]

48. Not just deserve, I demand a photo

And it will come I'm pretty sure.

Associated press already has filed a FOI request for the photo, the White House has 20 days to respond.

Lets see how much heat from the FREE PRESS and our FIRST AMENDMENT the White House can take before they bend.

Or is the Obama administration trying to become the NEW CHINA?

[dionysus]

82. "Or is the Obama administration trying to become the NEW CHINA?" i love the smell of desperation in

the morning.

:rofl:

[Javaman]

89. That was pretty epic. LOL nt

[Poll_Blind]

49. I think it is important that they be released.

Someone explained that the target audience is skeptical-but-persuadable "show me the evidence" people. That sounds entirely reasonable to me. Nobody is saying they are going to wind up on TV or the front page: I assume they are particularly gruesome even for a picture of a dead body.

The weird "bad jojo" that people seem to think will happen if the administration releases some documentary evidence of this- do they not realize that we're blowing up whole groups of women and children on occasion with our drone-fired Hellfire missiles? I mean, if we're all getting worried about inflaming sensibilities, I think dead women and children in Afghanistan inflame Muslims a lot more than bin Laden, who hijacked their religion.

PB

[marions ghost]

84. The pic would be everywhere

you look on a screen, internet, cable etc. We are already haunted by his live face. Now we'd be haunted by his blown up dead face.

You know that pictures no longer constitute evidence.

If you release Enemy #1's face, should you release pix of all the people killed in our noble Wars for Oil? That logic makes some sense to me. That would be another reason why they won't be released, not right now anyway.

Parading the Death Head of Osama on a spike in the virtual arena might appeal to people who like American Gladiators but most of us would give it a miss. Especially the way the American media would deal with it.

Maybe what they could do is make it a tourist attraction in DC. Put it in a guarded place where people can CHOOSE to see it. No photos allowed. Like they do to pictures of naked humans in art exhibits. Very tame sculptures and paintings of naked people are still being relegated to back rooms in museums. Treat it that way. I'd be fine with that.

Obama is correct to limit viewing of this.

[applegrove]

51. Two reasons. One, conspiracy theorist will just say the photo is a fake and

it will incite more jihadists. The President made a good call.

[EFerrari]

57. Our freedom of information should never be hostage

to criminals or kooks. That's what you're suggesting.

What a pantload.

[grahamhgreen]

52. You're going to second guess the man who actually got him? Really?

[Paradoxical]

53. Wait, who actually "got him"?

[grahamhgreen]

65. Obama got him. Bush 'didn't really care where he was'

[Paradoxical]

66. I'm pretty sure Obama was in the United States when Bin Laden was killed.

He didn't "get" him. He was given intel and told some soldiers to get him.

[grahamhgreen]

69. Technically, only the trigger man "got him", but really it was the whole team.

[YvonneCa]

78. Here...

...http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=580728&mesg_id=580728

Just so we're clear. ;)

[FrenchieCat]

58. I pay taxes, and seeing a trophy ain't gonna do it for me......

I want a fucking tour of the helicopters, and of the compound.
I want to interview the fucking SEALS!
I paid for what I say I pay for, goddammit! :mad:

[SoCalDem]

67. Look at the pics in the Guardian or on Reuters & imagine OBL's face

there ya go.

[mmonk]

68. Our tax dollars killed others as well including innocents. We deserve photos.

[OneGrassRoot]

70. I don't understand at all.

I admittedly haven't been following the threads about demanding photos/videos, the legality of killing OBL, etc.

But when it comes to the photos/videos, I can't imagine that anyone who 1) doubts the military action occurred as reported or 2) disagrees with it, will believe any photos or videos.

In this day and age, everything can be doctored masterfully.

For those of you who demand the photos, is there some technical way you would be assured they're authentic?

I don't have a strong feeling about it, especially because of the above. I wouldn't feel anything is definitive even if they did release photos.

I know people with children in the military who don't want such photos (authenticated or not) released due to it putting their children even more in harm's way. I'm honestly not sure if this is very different in that regard from the release of the Abu Ghraib photos.

I wanted the Abu Ghraib photos released; I don't care about any OBL photos, though I lean toward not for the above reason.

My sense is that the OBL photos are different from Abu Ghraib and other war-related photos since he is the leader of Al Qaeda. Everything is different as it concerns OBL.

I don't know...I'm asking.

:shrug:


EDIT TO ADD: Is it even about the authentication of photos, or is it the mere act of The Obama Administration capitulating to this demand?

[wickerwoman]

71. If you want to see brains and skull fragments, why don't you enlist?

I've seen more than enough grotesque violence in the last ten years and I'm not prepared to "go live in a cave" and accept the banalization of graphic violent images in everyday culture.

If you don't believe bin Laden is dead, a photo isn't going to convince you. Why should you believe that it isn't photoshopped?

And the government already has a "Ministry of Truth" (and btw the US doesn't have Ministries because it doesn't have Ministers)- it's called Congress and the GAO (Government Accountability Office). If Congress thinks that money isn't being spent appropriately it can launch an investigation through the GAO. Do you really want to go there with a Republican controlled house?

Maybe you're too young to remember the Clinton years, but absolutely f*ck all gets done when Republicans go "independent" investigation crazy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

77. +1

[Javaman]

90. +1 nt

[uppityperson]

91. +1000000

[mwb970]

72. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

Didn't you see what just happened when Obama released the long-awaited "long form" birth certificate? The Obama-haters immediately declared it a forgery, offering long, tortured analyses of "layers" in the file, the paper, the border, the signatures, the words on it - basically, everything about it is phony to these nuts.

Do you truly not see that any photo that is released will be labeled a forgery by right-wing nutjobs over here, while also being used as a recruitment tool for what is left of al Qaeda over there?

Your post reads like something I would expect to see on Free Republic.

:shrug:

[ellie]

74. As my father would say

Bunch of goddamned ghouls.

[spanone]

75. what horseshit

[xoom]

76. hell yes!!

[chillspike]

79. I don't think there is any prohibition on anyone seeing the photo privately

they just don't want to release it publicly so there are no copies made.

Write the president and ask for a private viewing.

[Dappleganger]

83. Having personally viewed real, violent death before...

I think you are completely missing the point of not posting the pictures.

[hobbit709]

86. Exactly.

Once you've seen and smelled the real thing you're not quite as bloodthirsty about it.

[PVnRT]

85. Why? So you can call it fake?

That's all that will happen - photo comes out, hordes of idiots claim it's fake. Besides, how are you personally going to positively ID bin Laden after a head shot?

[dipsydoodle]

87. Here ya go

That's how people will remember him in the absense of anything else and I don't mean his dead body. You're stuck with that for all time now.

The US has made an icon of him second only to Ernesto.

[phleshdef]

92. So basically you want some pornography.

Because thats exactly what this kind of photo is for anyone that wants to see it. Its pornography for a blood thirst fetish.