This pisses me off: Obama floats plan to tax cars by the mile

[cali]

By Pete Kasperowicz - 05/05/11 07:45 AM ET

The Obama administration has floated a transportation authorization bill that would require the study and implementation of a plan to tax automobile drivers based on how many miles they drive.

The plan is a part of the administration's "Transportation Opportunities Act," an undated draft of which was obtained this week by Transportation Weekly.

This follows a March Congressional Budget Office report that supported the idea of taxing drivers based on miles driven.

Among other things, CBO suggested that a vehicle miles traveled (VMT) tax could be tracked by installing electronic equipment on each car to determine how many miles were driven; payment could take place electronically at filling stations.

<snip>

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/159397-obama-floats-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile

It's fucking stupid to the max and intrusive. Plus people who drive more already pay more in the form of gasoline taxes. I drive very little but this has always struck me as stupid.

[villager]

1. while at the same time governments cut money available for mass transit?

:shrug:

[DFab420]

2. Try not to get pissed about an undated unsent draft memo...

if and I really mean IF the Obama Administration ever sends this over to congress, then you can feel free to get pissed..


I would recommend waiting though.

[bettyellen]

3. if they use the money to fund public transport, I am all for it

but hopefully he can do somethign about gas prices as well.

[cali]

4. so you don't mind how intrusive something like this is?

[Bandit]

10. Why is it more intrusive than gasoline tax?

With more people going to all electric, yet still driving on our highways and causing the same wear and tear on our roads, how do you expect the government to get money to maintain those roads and bridges? I believe that those that use the services the most should pay the most for those services. That is why I believe the rich should be taxed more. They use more services, and yes roads and bridges and airports and boat harbors, etc are indeed services..

[cali]

15. tracking distance driven is inherently more intrusive

the number of people driving electric is tiny. And you would punish poor rural folks. I live in an area with virtually no public transportation and where people commonly have to drive 70 miles a day just to get to work and home.

[Bandit]

44. I believe there should be a trade off then

You are already being taxed more for having to drive more miles but it is in gasoline tax. The more fuel efficient new cars become, the more revenue loss there is for maintaining roads. I think if there is a milage tax there needs to be a reduction in gas tax to go along. I agree you should not be double taxed, but the roads do need to be maintained...I don't know the answer but I know there needs to be a debate over how we take care of our country.

[MadHound]

5. I think that is simply an "in" for tracking all our movements by car

Not to mention the fact that this will be a double tax, for do you really think that the Feds and states will drop taxing gasoline? No, we will be taxed both by the gallon, and by the mile.

Other problems, what if you are poor, and don't have an account to electronically transfer funds out of? What about older vehicles that don't have the capacity to have electronic equipment installed?

And finally, doesn't this simply de-incentiveize people's motives for getting cars with better fuel mileage?

This is simply grasping, greedy stupidity.

[cali]

8. so do I. and yes, it's inherently unfair

and acts as a brake on getting cars with better mileage on the road.

[JackintheGreen]

6. And what about those who spend more time sitting in traffic on over-capacity roadways?

My wife and I work about the same distance from our home, but in opposite directions. I travel under-taxed roads at speed and reach work in 25 minutes. She travels over-taxed roads at a near crawl and takes over an hour.

[blondeatlast]

7. This actually doesn't bother me, plus I think there's nothing wrong

with studying it. Maybe it could be used to fund public transit or high speed rail. That would be wonderful.

[FSogol]

9. +1 I agree. n/t

[cali]

11. it's unfair and intrusive.

people in rural areas often have to drive more and further and they're poor. fuck screwing the poor over.

[blondeatlast]

13. You seem to know exactly how it will be implemented so please explain how it will work.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the word "study."

[cali]

18. did I say that? No, of course not, but thanks ever so for putting your fucking words

in my mouth. Obviously, to do this, a mileage tracking device would have to be installed in cars. Yes, I think that's more intrusive than a gasoline tax.

[Javaman]

25. This concept has been floated time and again...

and like the previous poster stated, this is a study.

In previous studies, it had been postulated that there would be various breaks to people who show cost of living distress.

aka the poor and the working poor would get a break.

while those who have an income above a certain level would be taxed per mile.

[Richardo]

12. Gasoline tax is ALREADY a vehicle-miles-traveled tax

:shrug:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. yes, but you can't collect as much tax

on electric and hybrid and fuel efficient vehicles.

sP

[Richardo]

31. That's true - but wouldn't they want to incentivize people to use those vehicles?

I think the whole story is bunk, but that would be my argument.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

35. they SHOULD be trying to incentivize people to buy more fuel efficient cars

but that doesn't seem to be the tack, does it. there have been all sorts of theories as to why there is no car that gets 100mpg or runs on water or any other of a dozen other things that would have lessened our dependency on oil. my guess is that the ideas are killed by gov't so that the gas tax keeps on rolling...

sP

[S_E_Fudd]

38. Well there are federal tax breaks...

Here in Virginia there are tax breaks as well...plus efficient fuel vehicles don't have to observe HOV restrictions...

However, an electric car does just as much damage to the roads as a gas powered car....

that revenue is eventually going to have to be made up some how...

[NightWatcher]

14. Let's tax corporate jets by the mile and leave the guy driving to the factory alone

Assuming there are any factories anymore

But sure, let's see how well forcing middle America to install a tracker on their car works.

[PVnRT]

23. +1

[Gravel Democrat]

50. +100

[rucky]

16. This reeks of BS

[CanonRay]

17. This really punishes rural people

It has been floated before, and was shot down, and will be again.

[cali]

20. yep and I certainly hope so.

[valerief]

19. Tax the rich peoples' playplanes instead. nt

[TransitJohn]

21. As someone who drives a LOT for work (1500 miles/month)

plus normal mileage per day (~30 miles/day) I could conceivable support this if and only if the gasoline tax were dropped. Otherwise it'd be a huge hit to my take home pay.

[mn9driver]

22. Minnesota floated this idea recently. It went down in flames.

No one is going to want a government controlled GPS device in their vehicle, and as other posters have already pointed out, the gasoline tax is already a mileage tax: Drive less, pay less.

[WatsonT]

24. Gas taxes are supposed to pay for road repairs

the money often gets subverted but that's the idea.

And roads are not destroyed in direct correlation to the amount of gas burned. An efficient car will do the same amount of damage to the road as an inefficient car of the same size driving the same mileage.

It makes sense, but would be difficult to implement.

[S_E_Fudd]

26. I think the idea behind this may be...

As more people move to electric vehicles the revenue from gas taxes would drop. Since in most states road building and maintenance is funded by gas taxes, you need to find some way to replace that revenue.

[Skidmore]

28. I highly doubt in this economic chaos if people will be purchasing

electric cars as long as they costs as much as a small house in a rural community where jobs can be scarce and pay low wages. I know we cannot afford $40K for a car. We had enough trouble justifying half that much to replace a needed truck with a used one this last fall. Car prices have gone up for regular sedans. Financing is more of a joke. There was a time when a car could be paid of in 3 years time with a reasonable payment. Now they set you up for 5 years without a bat of the eye.

[S_E_Fudd]

34. Well given this is just a study...

And not something that would go into effect anytime soon....looking at it in a current context wouldn't really give you an accurate picture of how it could ultimately be implemented.

Also the proposals I have heard on this is that it would be for people who had those types of cars...not for everyone.

Electric cars cost 40k now because they are new and haven't been widely adopted yet. However, as they become more popular that price will drop substantially. At some point in the future a significant number of cars on the road will be using this technology.

When that day gets here the revenue lost by lower gasoline sales will have to be made up somehow.

[Horse with no Name]

27. There goes the rural vote

And mine if he does that.

How much does that electronic equipment cost and is the person that makes it a campaign donor?

[Azathoth]

29. So after gas hits $4 and Apple gets caught invading people's privacy, they decide to float this idea

I think this is pretty much the dictionary definition of "tone deaf" ....

[DBoon]

32. What pisses me off is the motivation behind this

Some people think that drivers of high-mileage cars don't pay *enough* in gas taxes, so there should be a mileage tax to ensure the Prius owner pays the same as the Hummer owner

Somehow, owning a car that is fuel efficient is unfair to the people who own gas hogs

[S_E_Fudd]

36. Why?

Just because a car is a hybrid doesn't mean it does less damage to roadways...

At some point in the future a substantial number of cars will be electric...how would you propose raising money for road maintenance?

[cali]

37. how about a tax per year on people who own electrics?

isn't that a lot simpler?

[S_E_Fudd]

39. Might be...

I'm not necessarily saying a mileage tax is the best solution..but I am glad that someone is looking at this now rather than waiting until a crisis hits...

[woo me with science]

33. I don't like this. Even just as a trial balloon.

Yes, it would be outrageously intrusive.

[ZombieHorde]

40. Hybrid and electric cars are becoming more popular.

The government doesn't want less tax dollars coming in. Just my guess, I don't really know.

[blondeatlast]

42. That makes sense--I hadn't considered that.

Personally, the idea doesn't bother me. It all depends on how it's done but I'm not threatened by a possible study. :shrug:

[jillan]

41. This is not fair. Some of us have no options other than to travel by car because our public trans

is practically non-existent and getting worse by our Repub govs.

And some of us live in parts of the country where everything is spread out.

[spin]

51. That would be an unfair tax on the rural poor. (n/t)

[Shagbark Hickory]

43. Cali, I didn't htink you'd get much support on this post but I agree wholeheartedly.

This is an unfair tax if there ever was one, not to mention the privacy issues with installing specialized tracking equipment.

I don't know how close to reality it is but if this is in fact happening, this is a real good way to try to lose an election.

[VenusRising]

45. Be pissed at the REPUBLICAN proposing it.

Transportation agency: Obama will not pursue mileage tax

This was trotted out in 2009. The important thing to look at is who is proposing this tax. The article in the OP says the President does not support the measure.

The White House, however, said the bill is only an early draft that was not formally circulated within the administration.

“This is not an Administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the Administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the Administration, does not taken into account the advice of the President’s senior advisors, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the President.”

This is an idea that keeps getting floated by Republican Transportation Secretary, Ray LaHood.

[madokie]

46. I believe that was floated as a way for the EV's to pay road taxes too

coming from 'the hill' I think someone left out the most basic part and probably did it to illicit responses like you just had.

[csziggy]

47. An option that was thought of before electronic tracking devices

Tax tires rather than fuel or specific miles. Tires wear depending on the number of miles and the weight the vehicle carries so they are a better metric for how much damage the vehicles do to roads. Off road tires for agricultural equipment and things like ATVs, golf carts, etc. could be exempted from the tire road tax. The problem is that it is a bigger hit at one time rather than the gas taxes which are spread out over a long period for the same number of miles.

[FLAprogressive]

48. What a stupid idea and it's perfect fodder for Republicans.

[zbdent]

49. don't like it at all ...

but, for the record, I'd heard it from quite a few "tea party" types, along with some actually designated Republicans ... whining about all those liberals in their "fuel efficient" cars, not really paying for the roads that they're enjoying ...