I just got a call from an 'Obama supporter' in my state. She wanted to know it she Obama could count

[Vincardog]

on my vote in '12.

I told her I was undecided.

She asked WHY?

I told her The admin was on the wrong side of most issues.

She asked what my issue was. I told her the main thing had to be Paper ballots and hand counts.

She asked me to pick from economy, Jobs, health care, and education

I told her BO was on the wrong track with every one of them.

What happened to Renegotiating NAFTA? It became passing more Flat Earth free trade with Columbia and Korea.
Jobs? Where was BO when the people stood up in WI?
Education? The faux race for the top is nothing but an excuse to boost charter schools.

She wrote it down and I am sure my concerns will be noted by the Obama campaign.

[AlabamaLibrul]

1. in before the bashing

They called you, asked you questions, you made your concerns heard. Good for you.

FWIW I see myself as 99.9% likely to vote for Obama in the general.

[patrice]

2. So you're willing to throw away the Health Care reform that Senator Kennedy spent

most of his life trying to achieve. You are willing to throw away something that CAN be turned into Medicare for All, according to Senator Sanders, because you are willing to hurt people by making the perfect the enemy of the good.

:eyes:

[Larkspur]

6. It was interesting that the Obama caller didn't mention that

In my state, CT, the insurance companies bullied our new Dem gov to downplay and give up on Susinet, CT's single payer plan. The Susinet supporters who voted for Dan Malloy are pissed.

[Vincardog]

7. Where did I say I was throwing anything away?

[patrice]

12. Nevermind. What are you doing for paper ballots & hand counting in your own community?

BTW, we probably agree about that issue, but disagree as to how to get there.

[Deep13]

15. States regulate elections, not communities. nt

[patrice]

25. Organizing for that to happen at the state level begins in communities.

What part of the concept of democracy do you not understand?

[patrice]

26. That's pretty top-downish of you, a.k.a. authoritarian. nt

[Deep13]

14. This is not what Kennedy fought for.

He fought for healthcare for all as a right of citizenship. That's not what the health insurance reform act did.

[Erose999]

36. No sir it is not. I now have congressional mandate to buy the very same private coverage I couldn't

afford before this whole fiasco started. Not only did they do absolutely nothing to reduce costs for me, they are forcing me to buy the coverage I can't afford, or pay a penalty.

Thanks to Obama and the DLC for looking out for me. :sarcasm:

[patrice]

45. Physicians for a National Health Program are supportive of improvements to Medicare that are

implemented by ACA 2010:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2011/may/health-reform-necessary-but-will-the-affordable-care-act-be-sufficient

[TransitJohn]

47. While that's great and all, it does not address the poster you were replying to.

The poster stated they couldn't afford to purchase health insurance, sort of implying that they weren't eligible for Medicare. But I'm sure you knew that. These links that always get posted never, ever, address the issue, it's just obfuscation.

[patrice]

48. Did you read the article? It addresses the issue of cost increases & the possibility of control

through changes to Medicare.

[TransitJohn]

49. Did you read the post you were replying to?

It referred to not being able to afford health insurance, and being forced to buy for-profit health insurance under congressional mandate with no cost controls. :eyes:

[patrice]

52. Bernie Sanders & others are saying that ACA/Medicare reform CAN result in not-for-profit insurance

for anyone, if we have the political cohesion to go there.

[patrice]

54. That may have to happen on a state-by-state basis. Probably depends upon what happens

to Congress in 2012.

[TransitJohn]

55. And that helps the poster how, when the mandate is real and kicks in soon, and this stuff

you are talking about is mythical?

[patrice]

57. Not a very balanced word "mythical", kind of loaded, so it shows bias.

[TransitJohn]

59. Mythical, as in unreal.

Which is what it is, right?

On edit: Would you prefer nonexistent?

[patrice]

61. So, if something is not, that means it cannot be, e.g. my house is not brown, so it cannot be

brown.

[TransitJohn]

62. What are you on about now????

I can't follow you. I thought we were talking about the fact that there is a congressional mandate for Americans to purchase for-profit health insurance with no cost controls in place....you know, reality.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TransitJohn]

67. Wow, why are you so riled up and accusing me of wanting a pony?

Isn't that against the 'new improved' DU rules?

Anyway, for your edification:

myth·i·cal
adj \ˈmi-thi-kəl\
Definition of MYTHICAL
1
: based on or described in a myth especially as contrasted with history
2
usually mythical : existing only in the imagination : fictitious, imaginary <constructed a mythical all-star team>
3
usually mythic : having qualities suitable to myth : legendary <the twilight of a mythic professional career — Clayton Riley>

Pay special attention to definition 2, the connotation I was using in my post. Don't be mad at me for using an English word properly.
Have a nice day, and please refrain from personal attacks in the future.

[patrice]

69. Uh, I/you can imagine all kinds of things that CAN then be made actual, say, a triangle . . .

of certain proportions can be imagined and then drawn.

I can imagine a story or a character, and idea for a business, a house . . .

The fact that something does not exist DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CANNOT EXIST.

The fact that ACA 2010 has not accomplished certain things yet does not mean that it cannot accomplish those things

AND ITS A DAMN SITE CLOSER TO THE PROBABILITY THAT IT WILL ACCOMPLISH THOSE OBJECTIVES THAN ANYTHING ANY SO-CALLED THIRD PARTY CAN OFFER.

[TransitJohn]

71. Nobody's said anything about 3rd party but you.

What really are you saying? Why the continual obfuscation into semantics and other word games? Why not address what we were talking about, namely how did you posting that link pertain to the poster's (who started this subthread) problem of not being able to afford being forced to purchase for-profit health insurance with no cost controls in place?

[patrice]

72. You have a problem with semantics, i.e. what things MEAN??? Very interesting. Do you mean what you

say or not?

[TransitJohn]

74. Ironic.

I used the word mythical to refer to cost controls which don't exist. You took issue with my use of the word, thus you have a problem with semantics. Care to address the issue I'm trying to discuss? If not, I'm out. Have fun.

[patrice]

76. Note to self: The word "semantics" is as evil as "Liberal" in some agendas. nt

[patrice]

73. I did address those issues. The article did address those issues. But I can see how someone who

opposes meaning, would just say that meaning is not in that article.

[TransitJohn]

75. This is so funny.

I'm trying to talk about that other posters problems with being coerced to buy for-profit health insurance without any cost controls in place, and you brought up my use of a word, proceeded to argue about what it means, and now are accusing me of arguing about what a word means. I'm out. Have fun.

[patrice]

77. What's funny is ignoring a recognized authority on this question: Senator Bernie Sanders nt

[patrice]

70. Sorry! Fixed now. Better?

[patrice]

68. Gotta go now. Lawrence ODonnell is on!!

:hi:

[patrice]

58. I guess I'll be finding out pretty soon myself, since I too am uninsured.

[patrice]

50. Anyone who thinks what the article describes is supposed to just change quickly just doesn't

understand where we are.

[patrice]

41. Do you follow Senator Bernie Sanders on this topic at all? Please read my post #39 below

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. The reform we got is nothing like the health care Kennedy was working to get.

Just so you know.

[patrice]

39. I do know & so does Senator Sanders. So you'd better contact him & tell him to trash ACA2010

and start all over, since he's working for the Medicare reform that was implemented by ACA 2010, because he sees that as a Public Option in all but name and also as a stepping stone to Medicare for All.

[derby378]

56. That sort of logic only works with horseshoes and hand grenades

I don't see where enslaving all Americans to the insurance corporations who made health care in America such a mes to begin with is an any way "good," let alone "perfect."

[blondeatlast]

3. So happy for you. nt

[fredamae]

4. And what happened to talking about PEACE?

For Decades we have talked Only of War and Defense. Why not shift that conversation and start talking about Peace?

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. You'll likely get hammered here but you are correct.

Add war-without-end (*new* wars, actually), war crime cover-ups, persecution of whistleblowers, double talk and foot-dragging re. glbt issues etc. etc. etc.

I want a primary alternative.

[Vincardog]

13. Add the DOJ prosecuting the Medical Marijuana dispensaries as well as STATE EMPLOYEES associated in

any way with them
As well as refusing to investigate war crimes illegal wire taps

and I too want a primary alternative.

[Rageneau]

35. This is my number one issue -- equal to slavery or abortion, IMHO.

Just as there are voters whose only issue is abortion, and just as there once were voters whose only issue was slavery, my single most important issue is the War on (some) Drugs. Whoever is on the right side of that issue gets my vote. Whoever remains on the wrong side of it (for example, Obama) will not have my support in 2012.

I am not a fascist and I will not vote for one.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. An alternative, not necessarily to bump Obama from the ticket,

but to force him to address what has been left to languish.

He must know by now that you don't beat the Repubs by playing their game.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

9. So let me ask you this question

Let's skip past the primaries because honestly you can vote for whomever you like including those who might challenge Obama.

But 99.9999999% he's going to win the nomination so for now let's just assume he does win.

Then who are you voting for if not Obama?

And just an FYI - should Obama lose the primary I will be happily and heartily campaigning for the democrat that defeats him unless some bizarro reason that candidate turns out to be a fluke like Donald Trump or Zell Miller.

[mmonk]

10. Nobody will know if you don't speak up.

That's what you did. Very good.

[Greybnk48]

11. I got a call on Tues. and said yes, 100%. Also that

he could count on every one of my family members including my SIL. AND my husband and I volunteered (well, I volunteered us both) to work on his re-election campaign and our first meeting is on the 16th.

He's usually not liberal enough for me, but I trust him to slowly but surely pull us back further left. It may not be in your face dramatic like the cons do it, but that's not his style. Maybe I'm a fool, but that's my view.

[lpbk2713]

17. I never do phone surveys.

You never know if they are who they claim to be.

And you never know if they put down their answers in place of yours.

[The Wielding Truth]

18. You want perfection from Obama while his opponents are scum?

He is not my perfect candidate, but next to any Republican or anyone I can see opposing him in 2012 I choose him with bells and whistles! We need to tell everyone to turn off Fox and step back and look at who will help us. Who do you want to make decisions for you and your family? I will go to the wall against the people who would not blink an eye if they saw me fall. I will walk again and call again and donate again to keep their hands off my life.

[Deep13]

21. At this point I'd settle for adequate.

On economic issues, Obama is to the right of Reagan.

[The Wielding Truth]

33. He is more than adequate compared to any current challenger.

[mfcorey1]

37. ITA

[Deep13]

19. I guess the real issue is...

...is four years of an extreme RW president too great a price to pay as the cost of establishing a genuine labor party (either within or apart from the present D. party)? Right now we have a conservative D. party and a fascist R. party. So who represents us?

[Vincardog]

23. Neither So why should I support them?

[tekisui]

20. I had one call and hound me for money like a telemarketer.

I finally told them they had my vote but nothing more. When they wouldn't stop with the hard sell, I hung up on them.

[JoePhilly]

22. Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad

[Tx4obama]

24. UNrec. Because ....

First of all the issue of 'paper ballots' is a state issue, not something that President Obama has control over.
Secondly, I do not believe President Obama is on the wrong side of most issues.
Thirdly, Wisconsin was a 'state' issue and the folks in Wisconsin did NOT want Obama to come there - it was THEIR fight.
Lastly, Obama does not have a magic wand that he can wave to fix the mess that Bush got us in regarding the economy, jobs, etc.

Perhaps Obama is not getting everything done as fast as some folks would like him to, but he is running on HIS schedule and not ours, and I believe he is doing the best he can considering the HUGE MESS he was left with and the fact that he has been in office for less than 2 1/2 years.

OBAMA 2012 - all the way!

[Iggo]

27. 'She wrote it down...'

Next time, ask the person to read it back to you.

It's fun.

[patrice]

28. Excellent tactic!! I also like to ask questions about what happens to all of the

notes, and tallies, and email. DO THEY USE IT? How do they analyze this concrete input from their constituents?

(Answer: They don't.)

[JuniperLea]

30. Also ask...

Who is paying for this poll? Who do you work for/who signs your paycheck? Are there question marks at the end of the questions you are asking, or will more words be added after I give you my answer? I'll save your question for last... but it really is a keeper! :thumbsup:

[patrice]

63. 1+++++++++++++++++++

[SidDithers]

29. Isn't that special..nt

Sid

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

34. "She asked me to pick from economy, Jobs, health care, and education"

Ooopsie, they left out poverty.

Imagine my surprise.

:puke:

[namahage]

42. I'd think "economy" covers poverty fairly adequately.

[bobbolink]

43. No, it absolutely does not. Its the rug its swept under.

"The economy" is all about middleclass.

[patrice]

64. Yeah, the poor and homeless don't want jobs, nor programs paid for by our taxes.

:sarcasm:

[Erose999]

38. All Obama gets from me is my pledge not to vote for a Republican. Which is not to say that he has my

vote or my endorsement.

[mfcorey1]

40. Got the same call, acknowledged being a supporter and mentioned things I would like him to

do in his second term. No way will I throw away things that did happen with an attitude about what still needs to be done. The alternative choices could unleash hell on earth.

[emilyg]

44. Good for you.

[Shagbark Hickory]

46. Self-delete

Sometimes we just change our minds, you know.

[woo me with science]

51. Feedback is important. nt

[Ohio Joe]

53. You should stand by your guns and sit out next election

You will be much happier under repug rule.

[JohnnyRingo]

65. A woman just called me too and asked the same question!

I told her I'm 100% for Obama but sadly will have to wait until closer to the election to donate.

I added that she could count on me to do volunteer work next year and thanked her for doing the phone banking. I explained that I've been in her shoes and don't envy her for the ordeal she has to suffer from malcontents.

What a coincidence. I hope I made her day though.