Obama CANNOT LOSE in 2012. Now is when we need PROGRESSIVE ACTIONS.

[Taverner]

Granted, the Obama bashers AND the Obama fans are both half right.

Obama has gone back on some things, on others, he has overachieved.

I like him as President. Much better than Clinton, and he (Clinton) practically put money in my pocket!

But it is pretty clear, if Obama loses it will have to involve tampering with the space-time fabric itself.

So...now that he cannot lose, how about some "ponies"? That is, how about supporting Medical Marijuana rights? How about shutting the door on DADT COMPLETELY? How about getting all of our troops home? How about shutting those loss leaders aka US military bases on foreign soil down for good?

This is a mandate. This is "political capital." Not the "man date" that Bush had in 2004, but a REAL mandate. Every true blue patriot (and this includes many Republicans) supports Obama now. Folks who I thought would NEVER EVER support him are. The only folks left are the Birchers, the Klan and the Neo Nazis. Fuck them. I don't want their vote anyway. They should have removed their flaccid "manhood" from the gene pool centuries ago.

[quinnox]

1. If he can't lose, why even go through the formality of an election

Lets just call it and get on with business.

[Taverner]

22. Lemme put it this way then, it would be hard for him to lose

Something would have to happen that would remind everyone that Barack Obama was indeed, human.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. There are no 'gimme's in politics, no matter how close the ball is to the cup. nt

[robinlynne]

38. Especially with privatized elections.....

[harun]

2. We'll see how he does on a draw down in Afghanistan. The rest of the stuff, no way

he touches it. Not that he shouldn't but look at his track record so far.

[Taverner]

4. True, but now there is no excuse

And unlike Bush, Obama listens to the voters. Doesn't always agree, but he does listen.

[krabigirl]

54. He does? Nt

[Taverner]

58. Yes. He doesn't always act on it, but he does listen

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. He's not a shoe in by any means. As I said on another thread. They're going to throw so much shit at

him that it'll make the shit Rove used to do seem like Desmond Tutu was running those campaigns. That Cock brother money can make things very difficult. The economy will be the determining factor and how much they can attack him on it.

[Taverner]

6. Ah but look at the GOP talking heads flailing like bouys!

The Republicans I know are giving the President his due, and are just now wondering that maybe their heroes (Rush, 'Sean' Hannity and Inbred Palin) are being partisan. Wow, ya think???

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. OK but also, watch what they teabagger controlled states are going to do to rig the vote. I'm not

talking about so called "conspiracy theories". What I'm referring to is the efforts to keep the poor and students from being able to vote where they might make a difference. Call me paranoid but this is not the moment to get over confident. I believe that these pukes are doing their damnest to sabotage the economy. They don't give a fuck what happens to the country.

[Taverner]

Yes - and this should be something the DNC is taking seriously

And they're non-ability is making me wonder who's side they're really on

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. Exactly!!! Oh and the justice department might have to end up dealing with this. nt

[coccom]

25. Maybe its a good time

To campaign for voting reform/paper trails? Since some of the pressure to fight for the Presidency is off?

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. ...how much they can attack him on it...

or WITH it.

These guys would gladly tank the economy on purpose just to kill Obama's re-election. I'm talking 1936, 25% unemployment, bread lines and food riots.

[Taverner]

32. Hell, that's the Koch Bros wet dream

That is what they pay the hookers they survive on - 'Please - be a newsreader and tell me how anyone will slit their neighbor's throat for a dollar...'

They are sick people

But I do think this is a magic bullet of sorts - that is, the killing of OBL

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

46. You of course are right. I should have said "with" instead. There is a reason why

these corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars and not lending money or hiring.

[patrice]

5. I'm with Labor, my ponies are Union ponies!

[Taverner]

7. Union Ponies are some of the best

And I think more than what I listed, he might be thinking Unions as well

After all, it was Unions that put him in office in the first place!

[patrice]

15. Power to the People makes the most sense problem-solving-wise.

We're the ones with the problems. We're the ones who should make decisions about how to solve. Unions CARE about their families and their communities; they are an appropriate counter to the political corruption we live with.

[rurallib]

9. No - he can lose. Citizen's United allows the right

to buy all the TV time and lie about anything and everything from now til Nov. 2012.
Let's be honest, the TV is by far the most powerful element in a campaign.
Don't you go counting no chickens.

[RevStPatrick]

11. Exactly what I was going to say.

He can lose. He shouldn't and we all have to vote to make sure he doesn't, but it certainly is possible for him to lose.

I don't like hubris...

[Ramulux]

10. Progressives need to be focused on 2016

We need to start looking for a good truly progressive candidate for 2016. Barring 7 or 8 dollar gas Obama will win undoubtedly win re-election and continue down the same centrist path he is already on. By 2014 we need to have a legitimate candidate that the netroots and activist base can get behind and turn into an early front runner. We need to have someone out there early to discourage any of the DLC blue dogs who will likely think they will win the nomination.

[elocs]

17. For any who are in touch with reality, does a true-blue progressive

actually have a chance to win in the general election? Because that is the point of having a Democratic candidate--someone who can beat the Republican candidate and not simply be a sacrificial lamb who strokes the desires of the Progressives.

[Taverner]

18. No, but a Progressive-leaning candidate might

Obama's record is checkered on the good/bad map

But he did have roots in progressivism, and his progressive roots have shaped his Supreme Court appointments

He needs to start doing union-favorable things - and now he can due to a 'trifecta' if you will from Osama/Wisconsin Recalls/HCR bill going into effect

At this point he can get the benefit of the doubt with the electorate - but only if he acts soon

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Well, Obama won by running as a progressive.

Remember him talking about public option, closing Gitmo, ending DADT & DOMA, ending the wars, holding the banks accountable?

Sounded all the right progressive notes, and got elected.

So yeah, a true-blue progressive CAN win the general election. Obama proved it.

[elocs]

62. So, you are saying that Obama is a true-blue Progressive?

:rofl: I think there might be one or two DUers who disagree with that assessment.

I don't believe for a second that he won because of any progressive promises, but because he was clearly better than McCain who was clueless when the economy was collapsing.

[creon]

31. No

Focus on 2012.

Get a liberal majority elected to Congress.

[treestar]

13. Of course he can lose

Anything he does in his first term is full of that possibility and the resulting R win if it it is not OK with the independents and moderates.

[Taverner]

20. Yes but the OBL kill resonates with them in a way no posturing can

Results vs Promises

[guardian]

51. This will have NO IMPACT on the election

it will be forgotten in two weeks, let alone two years.

[Taverner]

59. Willing to bet money on that?

Because I have a "Lincoln" here saying it will...

[guardian]

61. I guess you have more faith in the intelligence and memory

of the typical voter than do I.

[Taverner]

64. Not necesarrily

An ad campaign, 'Obama Killed Osama' is all that would be needed

[coccom]

14. Obama is in a good position

And so are progressives in Congress. Tea Party ops force GOP candidates to abandon the center, so even weak Dem candidates have a shot. I think this is an opportunity to Primary your local Blue Dog/sellout "democrat in name only" (do people actually say DINO? I've only been here a day). Because even if your Green Party candidate chips away at the progressive vote, the DINO is still going to win because centrist GOP voters will pick them over a tea party candidate. And who knows, we might get some decent people into Congress for once. Just an idea.

[Taverner]

19. Not only do people say DINO, they use many a Flintstone Animal Companion reference...

At least on Bartcop.com

Have you been there yet?

If not, you might or might not like it. Take a look.

[MineralMan]

16. It's not the Presidential election we need to worry about in 2012.

It's the Congress and state legislatures. That's where we need to work to regain control of as many of those as possible. Pushing Obama won't help if we don't give him a Congress he can work with, and our state governments are in shambles.

[Taverner]

21. Yes - you are right

And the State Legislatures as well.

And in California, we can elect the most progressive candidates possible, but if there is no plata, there are no policies.

They need to renegotiate Prop 13 at the least.

[creon]

34. yes

The congressioanl elections and state legislautres are the number one priority.

Obama will see to his own election.

be concerned with Congress.

[tabbycat31]

42. we need to focus on state legislatures up this year first

I know my own state of NJ next year and the Democrats in the statehouse are the only thing that is stopping Governor Christie Kreme from turning into Scott Walker 2.0.

National Repukes have their eye on NJ this year and have been pouring the NJ GOP with $$. National Democrats need to do the same.

[TheCanadianLiberal]

24. He can lose...

and he will. People are quick to point fingers at him unlike the last dude.

Obama will lose to one of those repubs

[Taverner]

27. I hope not - and I'd love to see your evidence

[TheCanadianLiberal]

28. Have you been paying attention?

People feel they are worse off based on this that continued to happen when he took over (not his fault but he is blamed), rising prices of everything )again not his fault) and many, many other reasons.

You don't need to look far to see how likely him losing is.

And on a final note, if gas hits 5$ he's as good as gone in most peoples eyes.

[Taverner]

30. Gas will go to $8 this Summer

Expect and plan for that. Use public trans if you have to.

But that will not kill Obama. All he has to do is address it and any concerns will be allayed. Bush was expected to lower gas prices because he was an 'awl man.' Irony is lost on the GOP.

However, people know Obama will not lower gas prices, and thus they do not expect him to.

[TheCanadianLiberal]

36. I must...

underestimate the intelligence of the average person then.

[KamaAina]

52. $8? Any source for that?

Even the breathless M$M has only been saying $6, and then (after the break) "if a hurricane hits the Gulf".

[Taverner]

57. here

http://www.dmiblog.com/archives/2008/06/8_dollar_a_gallon_gas_bring_it.html

http://boingboing.net/2008/04/28/gasoline-to-cost-10.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eight-reasons-youll-rejoice-we

Granted, this is projection on the part of trend watchers.

But they're usually spot on.

[KamaAina]

67. None of those three have it at $8 by *this summer*

just at some vague, unspecified point down the road.

[creon]

29. Obam should win in 2012.

The issue is Congress - it is not Obama.

Progressives/liberals have to get organized and work to get a liberal majority in Congress.
That is the number one priority.

[mmonk]

33. Bashers? Do you understand the term?

[emulatorloo]

35. He can lose. There are already attempt at Dem voter suppresssion in the works

It ain't over until it is over.

[drpepper67]

37. Don't forget that Bush Sr couldn't lose after the 1st Gulf War...

and lost.

It's the economy, never forget it. And no one knows who the GOP will run.

As it stands right now, the GOP's got 'nuttin'.

In a second term, after the election will be the time to do what you want.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Time for him to STOP NEGOTIATING with the Repubs and negotiate with the progressives.

[krabigirl]

56. Sure would be nice.

[eridani]

41. That's what Bush the First thought after the first Gulf War

We can do without excuses for slacking off.

[dionysus]

43. the way to achieve this is to obtain more seats in congress.

[MilesColtrane]

44. Oh, he can lose all right.

vote rigging...Citizens United cash...unemployment...$5 a gallon gas...a terrorist attack

Don't be naive.

[Fire1]

45. Sorry, some of those things will NEVER happen under ANY

president. However, I do intend to vote for him in 2012.

[krabigirl]

55. Really? Nt

[Johonny]

47. We need more progressives running and a 50 state strategy

An Obama win with little change in congress is like a hold.

[guardian]

48. I hope Obama will win BUT

if we have

* $5+ per gallon gasoline
* 8%+ unemployment
* 10% inflation rate for food and other basics

it won't be pretty for ANY incumbent. The masses will rebel and vote them out. The electoral reality is that the incumbent president get the blame/credit for the economy. Strap in tight because a rethug will get voted in under those circumstances. You think it's bad now. Wait till we don't have a Progressive in the White-house to stop the house rethuggery.

[Taverner]

49. Gas will most likely reach $8 per gallon this summer

However when that happens, expect inflation to be the worst case scenario - which means that anything could happen.

[guardian]

50. If that happens I expect most incumbents

of whatever political stripe will be out on their asses by wide margins. At $8/gallon the cost of food alone will probably double or triple. That will be devastating for a huge percentage of the country. The electorate's angry backlash could result in some normally unelectable people being elected.

[krabigirl]

53. If he doesn't end at least one war, he can certainly lose in 2012. Many won't vote.

I for one would not see the point if he did not. If he keeps the war machine going in three or maybe four countries, and is up against a neocon wanting the same, what is the point? I vote for anti-war candidates..that is it. Sorry if I don't seem "patriotic" enough, but my view has not changed since 2001. I begrudingly voted for Obama even though I disagreed with his continued afghan war plans, because of his promises to bring the troops home from Iraq, etc.

Also, I completely agree with you..I really want a progressive president, but Obama is not progressive. He laughed when someone asked about legalizing cannabis a few years back in a town hall. He does not give a crap about threatening cancer patients using medical marijuana, does not care about privacy, is expanding the DHS/tsa security state, will not close gitmo, and so on. I don't see how that is progressive. At all.

[craigmatic]

63. He can lose. It all depends on the economy.

[TNLib]

65. After 2012 if he wins he will have real Political Capital

I'm kind of worried what he will do with it though. I don't think he's a liberal he's center (center right IMHO) and I think his policies reflect that. That being said I would much rather have a moderate in the white house than some psycho teabagger.

:hide:

[southernyankeebelle]

66. Don't get over confident

[Awsi Dooger]

68. Obama would not win if the election were held today

I saw a poll today indicating 82% say the economy is poor. There is no way to overcome that. Day to day commercial avalanche via Citizens United would hammer Obama's approval rating at least 5-10 points lower. We can't be foolish enough to accept the current terrain as representative of what a campaign would create. Gas prices and unemployment at these levels would sink any incumbent.

Obama has a year to get the unemployment rate to 8% or lower. Minds are made up by summer of election year. Every reliable election model looks at economic data 6+ months prior to election day.

Don't rely on a late rally and don't be overconfident. That's all I'm saying. Any president who inherited Bush's crapper would be in bad shape right now. I hope there's enough time.