What is it with the "anti-gold" mindset on the left?

[howard112211]

I've read such remarks a few times: "Only tea-baggers invest in gold" "Tea baggers believe in the gold-standard".

Can someone explain it to me? :shrug:

I'm not a tea-bagger but I like gold. It is shiney. It is fun.

I bought some of it recently. I view it somewhat as a long term investment. I also do some "commodity investing". What is wrong with that? Am I evil because I don't trust the stock market?

[Electric Monk]

1. Ever heard the saying "Buy low, sell high"?

I think that's what it comes down to. Buying high is stupid.

[Posteritatis]

17. Pretty much this, yeah; the crazes seem to come at the opposite of the right time. (nt)

[oldhippie]

44. I have a batch of Krugerrands ....

..... that I bought at $296, which was considered "high" at the time.

I also have another batch of Chinese pandas I bought at $694. They were also considered "high" at the time. Experts said gold would NEVER reach $800/oz again.

I still have both. Now the prices I paid are considered "low."

It's all a matter of time, high and low are relative.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. I like Gold.

Like everything else; in moderation.

[sakabatou]

3. Some of the stuff that hawked on TV are a rip-off

We also know that it's just another bubble.

[joshcryer]

4. While not related exactly to your question, the gold standard is insane right wing nonsense.

Leftists, most of them anyway, rightly see the gold worship thing as mind-numbing stupidity.

[aquart]

5. "The "anti-gold" mindset on the left?"

This is what you get from a "few" remarks?

Really? And with that attitude you ask for what? Vindication? Absolution?

If you're happy with what you're doing, WTF are you asking us for?

As for commodity speculation, which is what I assume you really mean, well, you will go to Hell for all eternity for that but again, why are you asking for absolution from DU? It's not illegal and nobody here is the Pope.

[howard112211]

6. "Commodity speculation" not quite.

And yes, I've seen a number of threads suggesting that interest in gold is right-wing. I generally don't mind people thinking that, but I'm trying to understand where it comes from out of curiosity.

[Art_from_Ark]

24. Take, for example, this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1044978

and this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x87580

[DontTreadOnMe]

7. It is a commodity - like aluminum

Would you find it strange if someone bought a few tons of aluminum and stored it in their basement?

There is just as much money to be made on aluminum as there is gold.

I think that is why some people don't see the allure of "gold".

But on the other hand, gold coins, especially recent ones from the US Mint have increased in value much more than the price of gold bullion.
Mainly because they are produced in very limited quantities, so they sell out fast. There is a historical and educational aspect to coin collecting, as opposed to collecting a metal (actually an element!).
So if I were to invest in "gold", it would be in coins and not gold bars.

Let's take a quick look at spot prices for Gold:

1979 = $750
1982 = $550
2002 = $350
2006 = $750
2010 = $1450
2011 = going up!
2015 = ?


SO does this look like a steady commodity to invest in? If you invested in gold in 1979, you would be WAY UNDER returns of just the S&P averages.

[joshcryer]

8. Here's a video you may not have seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef0VG1WEP10

Ignore the insulting comments for the girl and the implication that she was a moron (the guy was clearly being an idiot).

[Historic NY]

33. Too bad she didn't take it and give him change from the $50....

I'd bet he would have sh-t.

[joshcryer]

60. He would have called the police for theft or some bullshit.

And we would've never heard about it.

[Art_from_Ark]

21. You just made up those figures

Gold never went anywhere near $750 in 1979, nor was it anywhere near $550 in 1982. And the cumulative average in 2002 was $309.

:thumbsdown:

[BoWanZi]

58. Gold was $750 an ounce back in 79? Wow, what is that worth in today's dollars?

[Art_from_Ark]

59. Gold was NOT $750 in 1979

Nowhere near $750, in fact.



That poster was just making up a lot of bullshit figures and trying to pass them off as facts.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

9. Teabaggers Invest In Gold For Two Reasons

1. They actually believe the hucksters who are screaming about how the U.S. Dollar will no longer be the world's standard currency (mostly because they WANT to believe it, and because the people getting rich off of their stupidity have scared them to death by telling them things they already "know" and want to believe--like out-of-control spending by the crazy Demmy-crats will cause the dollar to lose all its value).

2. By investing in any currency that is NOT the U.S. Dollar (like gold and silver), they are actually helping to CAUSE the crash they claim they fear. That's why right-wing hand-wringers always tell their lemmings to buy gold and silver.

And THAT'S why the phenomenon of Teabaggers buying gold and silver is stupid.

Now, if you want to invest in gold because you consider it a good investment, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're doing it out of fear (to "protect your money" in the invent of a crash, and what will be the INEVITABLE result--the Government seizing everyone's money--I'm not kidding you, that is what these people are preaching) and/or the desire to CAUSE the crash so you can blame Obama, then that's about as dumb as dumb can be.

[howard112211]

11. I think that is the explanation I was looking for.

Yes, I've heard that "they will come and take people's money and freeze all savings accounts" line before, and thought to myself "what a load".

As stupid as it sounds, I buy gold mainly because it is shiney, and one cannot get ripped off as easy as with diamonds. I don't invest huge amounts of money into it though. Just a coin every now and then for fun.

[Atman]

22. Diamonds are another amazing rip-off.

Not rare at all. Used in everything from drill bits to old phonograph needles. But they're controlled by a cartel with a long reach and a huge marketing budget. That is the only reason they're "valuable." People are suckers.for shiny objects. So are trout and bass.

[Art_from_Ark]

26. Diamonds are not like gold, and you know that

Gold is fungible--diamonds aren't-- that is, the value of .999 gold can be easily known around the world, but the value of diamonds is based in large part on subjective evaluations of their quality.
Gold can be made into coins and has been used as a monetary medium for millennia-- diamonds can't be made into coins, and haven't been used as a monetary medium to any extent.
Diamonds are found in just a few places around the world, while gold is, or has been, found in most countries, which increases gold's appeal as a monetary medium.

Saying that, diamonds did help quite a few Jews escape from Nazi Germany, since they could be easily concealed and had value outside of Germany.

[Atman]

30. Uh...did I say diamonds are like gold?

I said they are a rip-off, in response to a previous post. I didn't say anything directly comparing diamonds to gold.

But thanks for the lecture.

:eyes:

[Art_from_Ark]

32. You said "Diamonds are "another ripoff"

What, then, is the "other rip-off" you were referring to?

[snooper2]

52. I can hear a diamond drop

:rofl:

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Precious stones aided fleeing refugess, not just diamonds

Diamonds are not even the most valuable of those stones. The special quality you ascribe to diamonds belongs to all precious stones which can be secreted on one's person. Emeralds would do fine, for example.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. I'm not denying that

It's just that the other poster specifically mentioned diamonds. And I was reminded of a scene from a Hindenberg movie (the one with Anne Bancroft and George C. Scott) where one of the Jews on board who is trying to escape from Nazi Germany had hidden diamonds in his pen to escape detection when he left Germany.

[pipi_k]

29. So I'm a trout...

but that's OK.

I love diamonds.

And actually, some of the "fake" diamonds are prettier than the real ones...for the same money, anyway.

Moissanite, for example. And a place called "Stauer" has some real nice looking "fake" diamonds.

But diamonds of any kind aren't loved for their shine...they're sparkly. There's a difference. Shine is surface. Sparkle is from within, and I can be entertained for quite a while by the play of light and color within a cut gem.

:)

[Dark]

16. In a true, literal, armageddon crash as they believe, booze will be way more valuable than gold

Booze will always be valuable.

[Alamuti Lotus]

38. what would the value of Cuervo GOLD be, then?

ugh, that was a bad pun, I know.

[NightWatcher]

49. Don't forget Spam, water and shotgun shells. A gold coin won't go far during end times

But a tin of spam is a lifesaver

[wuushew]

10. A cross of gold

"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."

-William Jennings Bryan

[dkf]

12. Anti gold is more about anti wealth it seems to me.

Also anti corporate.

[ZombieHorde]

13. Some DUers are mocking the Glen Beck gold TV commercials.

I don't think they are mocking people who own and enjoy gold rings or necklaces.

[LeftishBrit]

14. I think it's not so much 'anti-gold'...

as anti the attitude of some right-libertarians that all economic problems will be solved by a return to the gold standard, generally accompanied by a return to 19th century laissez-faire economics.

[canetoad]

15. Bullshit. I mock gold owners

share owners, commodity owners because these little dipshits are at the centre of the 'ordinary working person as investor' movement.

Show me a gold owner who at some stage, doesn't climb over the backs of struggling workers and I'll show you the risen Jesus Christ.

[Art_from_Ark]

57. What a totally bullshit statement

"Show me a gold owner who at some stage, doesn't climb over the backs of struggling workers and I'll show you the risen Jesus Christ"

Total and absolute BULLSHIT. I bought my first gold coin at 8 years of age. I certainly wasn't "climbing over the backs of struggling workers" then. Nor have I at any other time in my life.

[safeinOhio]

18. Today is a bad day to be

long on commodities.

Took my profits on gold a week and a half ago. Missed the peak, but not by much.

When everyone else is buying, sell. When they are selling, buy. Don't buy anymore than you would bet on the ball landing on red.

[craigmatic]

19. The gold standard limits the US's purchasing power and tying it to the dollar is what caused a

depression shortly after Jackson left office. It also favors the wealthy because under such a system the wealth would be even more concentrated in fewer hands than it is now. Just look up the populist movement and its fight against the robber barons in the late 1800's. FDR was the first president to get us off the standard because it created a run on gold when people stopped trusting the dollar and would've weakened the economy even more.

[quaker bill]

20. I am not anti

I use gold and silver to make jewelry. I just think the people who have been conned into hoarding because there is a black man in the Whitehouse are going to take a big financial hit. Fortunately for me, I have been working with a stash of materials bought before the speculative run up in prices. Some friends in the business will be taking a substantial financial hit because they needed to restock at speculative highs. These folks are hard working small business types who will be damaged financially by Beck driven lunacy.

[WinkyDink]

23. It represents the Right-Wing distrust of Federal Governance.

[enough]

25. If you look at the world-view of some extreme goldbugs like Max Keiser, you will find

that the label "left" and "right" don't make any sense. Max's views on a lot of things are far more "left" than a lot of DUers. Yes, he excoriates Obama, but he excoriated Bush on the same issues. I really don't think left/right is the dividing line on gold.

Just using Max as an example. The same is true for other less high-strung analysts who advocate gold.

[wickerwoman]

27. Glen Beck pimps it relentlessly,

and I think one of Limbaugh's sponsors is one of those scrap gold buying scam outfits.

It's semi-associated with survivalist right-wingers who think Obama is after their guns and that when society collapses having a lot of gold will actually mean something.

Don't know the history of the whole gold-standard thing but I think it's also part of a conspiracy theory about the government defrauding everyone because paper money isn't backed by anything anymore.

In any case, I'd say invest in whatever you like. Nothing wrong with it. The price of gold might be inflated a bit because lots of people who pulled their money out of the stock market in 2001 and real estate in 2007 put the money into gold. But who can say when the bubble will burst.

[dionysus]

48. to be fair, the gold sellers are advertised on any show they spend money on. randi rhodes does the

same "ITM Trading" ad you hear on RW radio.

[KharmaTrain]

28. I Have Some Krugraands...

They were a gift from my parents. They bought it in the early 70s (pre-South African boycott) for about $30 an ounce. It's become a family heirloom...I'd hate to think of the taxes if I were to cash it in.

Guess there are those on this side of the sandbox who don't think there are any "liberals" or "progressives" with money...but I know of many. The difference is those who are consumed by their wealth and/or income as a status symbol and others who give back through donations and helping others. I've been on both sides...spent way too many years dumpster diving and having too much month left at the end of the paycheck. I can relate to the anger of some as I felt the same resentment. It's all perspective...and how one values their own worth. Some do so in dollars others in what they share with others...

[eridani]

31. If you don't have it in your hands, it's just as imaginary as the stock market

There are a lot more "gold certificates" in the world than actual gold.

[Taitertots]

34. Only teabaggers want the gold standard because they are the only people stupid enough

It is stupid for several reasons.

1. It ties balance of trade deficits to monetary constriction. This exacerbates recessions and serves as an international transmission mechanism for economic problems. Don't want to believe me, here is the former head of economics at MIT explaining it.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2138201


2. Commodity based money is not at all insulated from inflation. If anything it is far more likely to suffer worse periods of inflation, and much worse deflation. This is due to the fact that monetary policy becomes at the whim of international markets(China...) and institutional investors(goldman sachs...). Demand pull inflation is almost inevitable.

[Shagbark Hickory]

35. But judging from your avatar, I'm guessing you're an "anarchist". So why am I not surprised?

[CJvR]

36. deleted

[RegieRocker]

40. Covet your gold, you take nothing with when you die. The only thing

that will matter to you while your dieing is your deeds. Material things only have value because you choose to give them value. Your gold is worthless.

[Dappleganger]

41. We invest in rice and beans.

[Capitalocracy]

42. If you view gold as a commodity to invest in, nothing wrong with that.

If you think it is the only effective currency and is magic in that respect, you're a crazy teabagger. The gold standard is a ridiculous concept, because gold is a commodity with fluctuating value just like any other commodity. And the best result you can have using gold as currency is false scarcity... finite money supply for an expanding population means yet another factor in favor of income inequality.

[hollowdweller]

43. I know a lot of liberals who buy gold

I don't know that many that believe going back to the gold standard is a good idea though.

If you go back and read William Jennings Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech you can see why the hostility to the gold standard goes way back in the party, and has to do with credit the wealth gap and the exploitation by the banks and rich of the working classes.

But gold standard aside I know tons of people who are liberal and buy gold so lumping anybody who is
hostile to gold investing as "THE LEFT" is like you are lumping all democrats into one category and makes me suspicious of you as some sort of RW shill?

[Marrah_G]

45. Yup- I have a friend who does and she is a leftie too .

[dionysus]

46. fuck gold. platinum is where it's at!

:silly:

[fascisthunter]

47. I haven't noticed that... that's crap

I'd buy gold if I could have a couple years ago...

I buy silver instead. And I'm full-blown liberal....

[Odin2005]

50. Gold-Bug-ism is a ideological shibboleth of the survivalist libertarian RWers.

[fascisthunter]

51. this stems from those who demanded a gold standard, yes?

don't know enough about this topic I guess...

[Odin2005]

53. Yup.

[Quantess]

54. Glenn Beck pimping Goldline ruined it

[county worker]

55. Those who make money from gold advertise it and sell it.

You might be be financially better off if you had the cash you bought the gold with. You pay a premium for gold and until it raises to some level were you earn that premium back you are upside down.

It is difficult to spend and if you wanted to buy something with it you have to turn it back into cash. So it is really worth what you get when you turn it back into cash.

It could rise in price and you have a paper gain but you have to sell the gold to get the actual gain.

That is true about real estate and most other tangible investments.

[LanternWaste]

56. I think it's simply a reaction...

I think it's simply a reaction to a few conservative TV and radio talk-heads who have pushed for their viewership to buy gold as one or two of their sponsors sell the stuff. And, as any good reactionary should, as they say yes, we automatically say no. Regardless.

I also imagine there's a small contingent who believe that anyone who makes enough to invest in gold is little more than a rich parasite who contributes nothing to the planet. And maybe a small minority of those believe it's all part of the Grand Evil Economic Slavery Plan put out by some international neo-Rothschild conglomerate.

Reactionary is all it is, I believe.