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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 07:22 AM Original message |
‘Made In China’ Accounts For Less Than 3 Percent Of American Personal Consumption Expenditures |
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PoliticAverse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 07:44 AM Response to Original message |
1. 88% of energy ? That number needs to be explained further... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 07:59 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. That's a good question, and remember it's by price not by joule |
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exboyfil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:23 AM Response to Reply #1 |
10. I would assume that the analysis would have taken |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
2. Hmmm... |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 07:59 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Cooked numbers obviously |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:03 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. Why is that "obvious"? (nt) |
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N7Shepard (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:06 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. You've got to be kidding. Go in any auto parts store and buy any |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:08 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. And? |
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N7Shepard (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:17 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. It says 1.2% of transportation costs are auto parts |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:37 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. 1% sounds a little high but when you factor in aircraft I could believe that |
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N7Shepard (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #15 |
42. Where do you think aircraft parts are made? |
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N7Shepard (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:47 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Oh and I spend a LOT more than 1% on parts. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:56 AM Response to Reply #5 |
20. They refer to it as "Goods and Services" |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:59 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Sorry, did you post the wrong table? |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:53 PM Response to Reply #23 |
178. 60% of the Value of All Goods sold in the U.S. are Imported |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:59 PM Response to Reply #178 |
181. Yes, the table says that. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:44 PM Response to Reply #181 |
189. "Made in China" implies Goods |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:47 PM Response to Reply #189 |
190. Of course our imports will almost entirely be goods |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:00 PM Response to Reply #190 |
191. What methodology accounts for outsourced IT, Call Centers |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:01 PM Response to Reply #191 |
192. Not if you can read English |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:09 PM Response to Reply #192 |
193. "Made in China" - your posted headline |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:11 PM Response to Reply #193 |
194. What would be a better way to say it? |
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sammytko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:20 AM Response to Original message |
9. Now that I think of it - its possible |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:43 AM Response to Reply #9 |
18. Especially when you consider the reason we buy from China: it's cheap |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:23 AM Response to Original message |
11. Ms. Hale and Mr. Hobijn seem to have excluded nearly everything sold at Wal*Mart and Home Depot |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:35 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. It's not as if everything sold in Home Depot and Wal Mart is from China |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:32 AM Response to Reply #14 |
37. It's not as if most of it isn't made in China. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:02 AM Response to Reply #37 |
58. What percentage *BY COST* is made in China? |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:08 AM Response to Reply #58 |
64. That's a distinction without a difference, unless you're a Wal*Mart stockholder |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:11 AM Response to Reply #64 |
68. No, it's exactly not -- the fact that I can now get a cheap microwave |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:18 AM Response to Reply #68 |
71. It also means that your neighbor who worked in the US plant just got foreclosed, which |
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roxiejules (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #14 |
141. Checking Wal-Mart's Shelves for American-made goods |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:26 AM Response to Original message |
12. Interesting numbers. Someone's bound to say that they |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:32 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. kinda like the folks that claim we lost 100% of our manufacturing sector. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:01 AM Response to Reply #13 |
25. The persistence of that belief is amazing |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:01 AM Response to Reply #13 |
57. No, we only lost half of it. That means half those jobs are gone, and many |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:38 AM Response to Reply #57 |
88. it's a serious problem, but when people inject hyperbole into the discussion it muddies the waters. |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:38 AM Response to Original message |
16. that's awfully hard to believe |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:41 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. exboyfil's post above makes a lot of sense: 14T GDP, 400B trade deficit |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:52 AM Response to Original message |
19. Made in USA from parts imported from China = 5.9% |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:57 AM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Actually it's 0.7% made in US from parts imported from China |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:00 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. Had trouble reading the pie graph this morning due to blurry eyes this morning |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:01 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. No worries; I do it a lot |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 08:58 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. You know how liberal the "Made in USA" sticker is |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:15 AM Response to Original message |
27. Charts, Schmarts. Neo-Lib policies and free trade have done untold DAMAGE to this nation. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:17 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Spoken like a climate change denier |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:27 AM Response to Reply #29 |
35. Peruse my journals. You'll see facts and charts. |
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roxiejules (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:36 AM Response to Reply #35 |
128. 5.5 million manufacturing jobs in past decade |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:17 AM Response to Original message |
28. The Chinese are a growing consumer market |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:20 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. A steel company I used to do tech work for got some huge contracts from China |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:20 AM Response to Original message |
30. Huge problems with this "feel good" exercise in deflection & distortion by reframing |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:21 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. Why does a table of data make you angry? |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:25 AM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Smoke & Mirrors, and cheap psuedo-science transformed into the newest opiate for the masses. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:56 AM Response to Reply #34 |
52. Let me do a better job of making your argument. You can add the numbers |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:07 AM Response to Reply #52 |
63. Cherry-pickers do NOT have my respect. My stated point was Ind Consumption & Non China Prod. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:23 AM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Spot On |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:37 AM Response to Reply #33 |
39. Free-Traitors, I call them. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:44 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Yep ignore the fact Galina Hale writes research papers for Hong Kong |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:51 AM Response to Reply #41 |
47. God forbid! |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:25 AM Response to Reply #47 |
76. FUCK Free Traders |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:13 AM Response to Reply #39 |
115. "Free-Traitors" is good framing! |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:30 AM Response to Original message |
36. 88% of our energy is "Made in USA"? Phoney-baloney numbers, probably cooked by CATO |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:47 AM Response to Reply #36 |
44. Evidence, please? |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:54 AM Response to Reply #44 |
48. "In 2010 the United States imported 11.8 million barrels per day (MMbd) of crude oil..." |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:58 AM Response to Reply #48 |
54. Which was refined here. Most of the cost of gas is in refining and transportation |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:04 AM Response to Reply #54 |
60. Wrong. Crude oil is ~ $80/barrel today. Unleaded is (wholesale price) $2.70/gallon |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:08 AM Response to Reply #60 |
65. 42 gallons of oil do not produce 42 gallons of gasoline |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:17 AM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Agreed! The "impurities" removed in the refining process are also very valuable, and represent |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:17 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. It doesn't help you. 126 gal oil begats 84 gas and 42 heating oil after crack. We also import Gas |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:28 AM Response to Reply #70 |
77. I wasn't saying we're making money off of oil |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:30 AM Response to Reply #77 |
80. Your argument makes no sense. The 88% is UNDOUBTEDLY predicated on the use of COAL to heat homes |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:32 AM Response to Reply #80 |
83. Duh. Of course it is. Along with NG and some ethanol |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:45 AM Response to Reply #83 |
95. Right. You could've articulated that point. If you had *wanted to*. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #95 |
101. The fact that people saw red and didn't bother to read isn't my fault |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:30 AM Response to Reply #70 |
79. You obviously don't have a clue do you |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:37 AM Response to Reply #79 |
86. Are you trying to tell me that my industry standard crack is in error? |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:04 AM Response to Reply #86 |
107. You missed the "Reformate Memo" |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #107 |
118. See: www.bloomberg.com /apps/quote ?ticker=CRK321M1:IND |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #118 |
136. "Crack Spread" is Price not Volume |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:55 AM Response to Reply #136 |
150. It's the price of "THE VOLUME" of product. In this case, 126 gal oil = 84 gas and 42 heating oil |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #150 |
156. probably because I work in the industry |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:15 PM Response to Reply #156 |
159. I do too. You're clueless. You're arguing that the most widely quoted Industry Metric doesn't exist. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:38 PM Response to Reply #159 |
174. Bye Now - All DUers - IGNORE BUTTON recomended |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:47 PM Response to Reply #174 |
175. I'll guess most will read the thread and base their reaction to your rant on the facts. n't |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:54 PM Response to Reply #174 |
179. BTW, You opened this thread with "You obviously don't have a clue" - ahhh, the irony. |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:29 AM Response to Reply #65 |
78. Ya nice Try Free Trade Liar |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:31 AM Response to Reply #78 |
81. Actually it produces about 20 gallons of gas |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:45 AM Response to Reply #81 |
94. AGAIN with the EPIC FAIL |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:50 AM Response to Reply #94 |
98. Oh yeah, I've professed to be an "economic expert" all the time! |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #98 |
117. You sure have vigorously defended this report |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #117 |
121. And you're completely ignoring where that money goes now |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:43 AM Response to Reply #36 |
137. Not that it means anything one way or other but Recursion lives in DC.... |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #137 |
152. Well someone has to "inoculate" the Party regulars to the internal takeover of RW voter push buttons |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:01 PM Response to Reply #152 |
155. By broaching the subject it becomes acceptable - and we all just civilly "agree to disagree" |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:22 PM Response to Reply #137 |
161. Good lord |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:51 PM Response to Reply #161 |
177. In may be best NOT to gloat about never working in the private sector while supporting FREE TRADE! ! |
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True Earthling (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:13 PM Response to Reply #36 |
195. When you add up domestic oil, hydro, nat gas, coal etc. it could be plausible |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
38. 74% of Motor Vehicle "spending" on made in USA? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:49 AM Response to Reply #38 |
45. 74% *of US consumer spending* on motor vehicles |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:55 AM Response to Reply #45 |
50. They're counting buying an import at a US dealer as "US spending", then. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:00 AM Response to Reply #50 |
56. Sigh. Some of it. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:07 AM Response to Reply #56 |
62. Listen, just argue that "it's worth it!" to jettison working people if that's what you *really* mean |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:09 AM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Sigh |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #66 |
72. LOL. When you try to argue that water ain't wet, the onus is on YOU. |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:20 AM Response to Reply #66 |
73. I don't agree that jobs serving coffee replace jobs building tool and dies, autos, electric motors |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:01 AM Response to Reply #73 |
103. Well, in a very literal sense they have replaced them |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:06 AM Response to Reply #103 |
110. The problem is that we don't have enough coffee jobs for the skilled machinists moved overseas n/t |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #110 |
112. No, we don't, and we need to make more |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:20 PM Response to Reply #112 |
160. More coffee serving jobs are never going to correct for the inability of the US worker to live on $1 |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
40. Boy, it sure does sting some people when confronted with FACTS, huh? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:51 AM Response to Reply #40 |
46. Deleted message |
Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:57 AM Original message |
Um, no. Since "services" aren't (by definition) "goods", they aren't "made" *anywhere* |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
82. If you have a fetish for goods you can hold in your hand, I can't help you. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:42 AM Response to Reply #82 |
92. They teach this in Economics (and Property) 101. |
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Doremus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:55 AM Response to Original message |
49. Why is it that this looks like a typical RW think tank propaganda piece? |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:37 AM Response to Reply #49 |
87. Because you checked your critical thinking skills at the door. nt |
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Renew Deal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:56 AM Response to Original message |
51. This is a great case of lying with numbers. |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:59 AM Response to Reply #51 |
55. "Housing, transportation, and medical care will always be "made in USA." That's 96% of 66.9% " |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:37 AM Response to Reply #55 |
85. Suddenly people who build homes, move people around, and provide healthcare |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:44 AM Response to Reply #85 |
93. If you seek to measure the impact of jobs lost - it's wrong to average back in the bulk of jobs that |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:46 AM Response to Reply #93 |
96. I made that point a while back, which you fail to acknowledge. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:57 AM Response to Reply #93 |
102. Wheat-threshers were angry when combines were invented, too |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:01 AM Response to Reply #102 |
104. I'm sorry, but did they gain market share by undercutting on labor inputs or by building better with |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:02 AM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Who is "they" in this case? (nt) |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:24 AM Response to Reply #105 |
123. It was your example - Wheat Threshers destroyed by Combines. I'll let you diagram your sentence. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:34 AM Response to Reply #123 |
126. Wheat threshers did neither |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:45 AM Response to Reply #126 |
139. So - you're equating "technology" to what, Free Trade? Why? Just because it destroys jobs? One is .. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:48 AM Response to Reply #139 |
145. I know the difference, and I get 75% of my calories from farmers markets |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:06 PM Response to Reply #145 |
157. Dance around it all you want. Jobs lost through Free Trade to wages below US subsidence are NOT the |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:24 PM Response to Reply #157 |
162. I'm not lauding anything |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #162 |
165. It does NOT "happen regardless of trade policy". BS It is Trade Policy that DRIVES it and REQUIRES i |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:28 PM Response to Reply #165 |
166. That's just not true |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:32 PM Response to Reply #166 |
169. So agreements to allow in goods made below US cost have no impact? Seriously? n't |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:34 PM Response to Reply #169 |
172. People were complaining about cheap Taiwanese crap in the 60s |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #126 |
153. The problem with that is .. . |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:26 PM Response to Reply #153 |
163. Yeah, the whole "training" thing was crap and pissed me off |
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bhikkhu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
53. That's a pretty deceptive graph - first, 67% is "services"... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:03 AM Response to Reply #53 |
59. Right, and most of our spending is on "services" |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:05 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. Which are, by very definition, *not "goods"*. Which is why your OP is so misleading. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:10 AM Response to Reply #61 |
67. WTF are you even talking about? I never mentioned "goods" |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:22 AM Response to Reply #67 |
74. "Imports" are generally understood to involve "goods". |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:33 AM Response to Reply #74 |
84. Have to call you on a bit of bullshit there |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:38 AM Response to Reply #84 |
89. Nonsense that you are "just reporting" this from a position of neutrality |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:52 AM Response to Reply #89 |
99. The hell I am |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:38 AM Response to Reply #74 |
90. +2 nt |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:22 AM Response to Reply #67 |
75. Just the little part of the paper you quoted mentions "Goods" 9 times. Go read it, it's there. n/t |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:40 AM Response to Reply #75 |
91. Um, WELCOME to DU! |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:47 AM Response to Original message |
97. Why single out China? Add up all the other little slices.nm |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 10:52 AM Response to Reply #97 |
100. Ask the damn study authors |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:03 AM Response to Reply #100 |
106. He was asking those that seek to propagate and support the idea that $1 a day labor does not matter. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:06 AM Response to Reply #106 |
109. That labor matters a lot to someone whose option is $0.25 a day labor |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #109 |
111. In that case, why don't send all our government back-office, IRS call center jobs, etc, overseas? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:14 AM Response to Reply #111 |
116. That's almost all services, which haven't offshored as well as people hoped |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #100 |
143. Or Canada. Nary a peep "aboot" canada |
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DainBramaged (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
108. I refuse to believe this propaganda |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:11 AM Response to Reply #108 |
113. BLS, Commerce, or Census is lying if this is bullshit. Which one is it? (nt) |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #113 |
120. How about the choice you fail to list: poor narrow facts become big obvious truth via numbertwisting |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:20 AM Response to Reply #120 |
122. What "big obvious truth" do you imagine I claimed? |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:29 AM Response to Reply #122 |
124. You argue that .25 a day work is beneficial to those competing w/US, that FreeTrade is minor in impa |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:37 AM Response to Reply #124 |
130. False |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:39 AM Response to Reply #130 |
132. Yes, you did say that the $1 a day from the old US workers job was better than the .25 a day. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:44 AM Response to Reply #132 |
138. It's not "their" job |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:48 AM Response to Reply #138 |
146. It used to be. There's a world of importance between Free Trade and FAIR Trade. Learn the difference |
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DainBramaged (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:39 AM Response to Reply #113 |
131. I don't give a fuck, I refuse to believe it, keep defending them |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:12 AM Response to Original message |
114. Really? Go to Walmart and start picking up items til you find one made in America. YouTube it. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:18 AM Response to Reply #114 |
119. Well, in a super Walmart it would be easy: go to the meat aisle. |
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DainBramaged (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #119 |
133. Are you a lobbyist or work for a think tank? Just curious. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #133 |
140. Umm... did you read how quickly everybody called me a liar for posting it? |
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DainBramaged (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #140 |
144. Then our business here is done, farewell |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #144 |
147. We're consumer advocates, DB |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:36 PM Response to Reply #119 |
196. Food doesn't count! Go pick up a hundred items at Walmart and see where they are made |
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Johonny (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:53 PM Response to Reply #196 |
198. Walmart food might count |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 03:00 PM Response to Reply #196 |
199. Why does my largest budget item not count? (nt) |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 05:42 PM Response to Reply #199 |
200. Because that's not the issue the country is addressing when we talk about the outsourcing of |
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roxiejules (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:53 AM Response to Reply #114 |
148. Manufacturing Assoc. did that and found mostly imports |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:33 AM Response to Original message |
125. Great, we aren't importing houses from China |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:37 AM Response to Reply #125 |
129. We do however now build Government funded $7.2B bridges in China - for San Francisco. |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #129 |
134. Do Bridge Builders make good Barrista's? Anyone in SF been served by one? Or are those jobs taken? |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #125 |
142. We also imported toxic "Dry Board/Sheetrock" from China installed in homes during Housing Boom. |
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moondust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:35 AM Response to Original message |
127. It's not the percentage that counts. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #127 |
135. That one's hard to figure out |
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moondust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:55 AM Response to Reply #135 |
149. Another big part of the picture is |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 11:58 AM Response to Reply #149 |
151. Very true, but it's tied up in this |
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moondust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:31 PM Response to Reply #151 |
168. I'd say it was mostly because of cheap labor. |
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tawadi (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
154. I must be buying the entire 3% then |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #154 |
164. How much of your money do you spend on stuff? |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:08 PM Response to Original message |
158. Let's take a T-Shirt for instance. |
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ItNerd4life (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:30 PM Response to Original message |
167. This chart is a lie. Take out services and to get the true picture. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:32 PM Response to Reply #167 |
170. I don't spend most of my money on goods. Do you? |
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amborin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:51 PM Response to Reply #167 |
176. +10000 67% of spending is on services; U.S. corps make ~ 60% of goods sold in us; China produces ~ |
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jtuck004 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:33 PM Response to Original message |
171. "...very little of American personal consumption spending actually ends up in China... " |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:36 PM Response to Reply #171 |
173. China buys our debt to make their exports to us cheaper |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 12:59 PM Response to Reply #173 |
180. No. We give them Dollars. Dollars must be spent in the US or traded to someone. Bonds are Storage. |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:00 PM Response to Reply #173 |
182. They are not, as you say, doing us a favor. n't |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:05 PM Response to Reply #182 |
183. Exactly |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:08 PM Response to Reply #183 |
184. What does this have to do with US Jobs or your point that China has a inconsequentially small effect |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:12 PM Response to Reply #184 |
185. Since I never made that "point" I don't need to defend it |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:17 PM Response to Reply #185 |
186. It's not the Yuan that allows goods from cheap labor to flood the US - it's USA LAWS & Regulations |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:18 PM Response to Reply #186 |
187. Yes, I'm aware you're passionately convinced of that (nt) |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 01:21 PM Response to Reply #187 |
188. "What the value of the Yuan has to do with US jobs is pretty clear:" You said it.- I blamed LAWS. |
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MrScorpio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-11 02:40 PM Response to Original message |
197. Is the US Chamber of Commerce propaganda? |
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