The United States is NOT a Phoenix.

[MineralMan]

If it goes up in flames or is destroyed in another way, it will not rise up again like the mythical bird. If the Republicans, particularly the Dominionist wing of that party, which informs the Tea Party movement and is represented by leading GOP Presidential candidates, win control of both the executive and legislative branch again, they will destroy this country and remake it in another pattern. We will not miraculously resurrect the nation.

I believe we are at a critical juncture in history. I'm old enough that I will not see what happens come to its full maturity, but I truly believe that we have only one or two more opportunities to keep this nation out of the hands of those who would destroy it utterly. It is for that reason, and that reason only, that I am advocating an all-out effort to regain control of Congress and to hold onto the Executive. We already have lost control of the Judicial Branch and half of the legislative branch. I do not believe we can withstand any further losses.

The USA will not be reborn anew if it falls. It simply will not.

Elect Democrats to Congress in 2012!

[leeroysphitz]

1. Well not with THAT attitude. n/t

[MineralMan]

37. Took me a minute to identify that logo in your signature line.

I missed that movie and the TV series, so I didn't recognize it.

[leeroysphitz]

66. OK.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. You mean I shouldn't burn my house to the ground to fix a leaky faucet?

Heresy!!!!

[MineralMan]

4. Not a good idea. Be sure to protect the walls when you're

unsoldering those copper pipe joints. It has happened. Uff da! :rofl:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. the problem ain't the plumbing...it's the foundation... n/t

[Hydra]

The foundation was shaky to begin with

Not many people know that with the spoonfed myths we all get.

[pipi_k]

51. Hardly ever works....

when the fire cools you still have a blackened faucet that leaks.


OTOH, if you want to get rid of termites....

:7

[Joe Fields]

53. Psst...your house is in flames as we speak.

But don't pay any attention to who lit the fire.

[steve2470]

3. agreed and rec ! nt

[MineralMan]

5. Thank you.

[Bryn]

6. Not if they're Third Way democrats

They're so full of shit and are no better than repugs. I want democrats, not DLC/Third Way crap. Thank you very much.

[MineralMan]

7. How'd that 2010 election work out for you, then?

Got rid of some Blue Dogs. Did that work for the better, do you think? I don't.

[Bryn]

10. Oh, we in Arkansas are very happy to get rid of Blanche Lincoln

But don't blame us if we didn't get Bill Halter, an excellent democratic candidate. Our dear democratic establishment helped to make sure we lost Halter by backing Blanche and laughed at Labor. Obviously The White House would rather to have Republican John Boozman than to have a progressive Bill Halter if they couldn't have Blanche Lincoln. Just to keep status quo.

[bvar22]

31. THAT was ONE BIG Fuck Up in Arakansas.

Organized LABOR and Grass Roots Democrats won't soon forget.
That is a lot of UGLY hanging around the White House's neck.


Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[MineralMan]

43. Really. And so, Boozman votes with the Democratic caucus

more often than Lincoln did? Have you looked at the voting record? I have.

Lincoln voted wrong a few times, and right almost all of the rest of the time. Confirming judges, especially. If you think Boozman is a better choice, you're incorrect. He's was a terrible choice.

[Selatius]

56. Blanche Lincoln lost the general to Boozman because she lost a lot of union support.

The fact that Bill Halter actually forced her into a run-off is indicative of how divided the Democratic base was in that state and how much a lot of Democrats wanted somebody else representing them. Bill lost obviously in the primary against Blanche, but Blanche went on to lose to Boozman in the general election. What, are we not supposed to have a primary?

[MineralMan]

58. Do you think Halter would have won in the General?

I kind of have the idea that he'd have lost too. 2010 saw a lot of people lose seats from the Democratic side. Frankly, I think that was pretty much a foregone conclusion. Of course a state should have a primary if people in the party want to. I'm not in Arkansas, so I leave their state politics up to them entirely. Congressional seats are all a local deal, really. I spend my time on the ones in my own state. We just managed to get Al Franken squeaked through. It was way to close for comfort.

[Selatius]

67. He'd have to run as an old-school populist to beat Boozman.

Holding conservative states typically means either running a person who is socially conservative/moderate who is economically center-right or is socially conservative/moderate who is economically center-left or even strongly left (e.g. a populist). Economic populists used to be fairly common in the Democratic Party back in the day, and many were from more rural regions.

The problem was the far right-wingers were very energized to vote in 2010, but I largely think that's because they voted based on Obama's skin color and religion (they thought he was a Muslim).

[Ozymanithrax]

8. Should it fall, something else will grow from the fertile soil left by its...

decomposition. That is history.

But, as a person living here, I would rather it not happen as it will be very uncomfortable. But, I am not sure that merely by retaking Congress and maintaining hold on the Oval Office that we can put of that decomposition. I'm certainly willing to try, even though I have grave concerns about the location on the political spectrum currently held by the President and the Democratic party. I will suppot liberal Democrats running for office and not stand in the way of Concervative Democrats running for office.

*Edit to change form to from. Gets me every time.

[MineralMan]

9. Making the US what it should be will not be done in a single

election cycle. Destroying what it is might, though. There are no miraculous ways to enable a nation with the socialistic structure I think would work best. There are very fast ways, though, to turn it into a place I don't want to live. I'm not talking about transforming the nation...just forestalling its destruction so we have a chance to transform it down the road.

[Skidmore]

27. What do you think that something else would be?

Especially when you have people on the opposite side of the ideology divide working on doing exactly the same thing.

[Ozymanithrax]

65. I don't own a crystal ball. but the other side will be affected as much as our side.

Who would have thought the U.S. would grow out of Britain, Revolutionary France grow out of the french Monarchy, or modern France grow out of the French Empire, or todays Russia grow out of the Soviet Union. Also the other side is not out to destroy America, they want to remake it in the what they see as an ideal image of some Golden Age U.S. of A. that never existed. Amazingly,they think they are saving America from being destroyed by us.

Personally, I prefer liberal policies and programs, such as Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid. I have a preference for free markets, as long as they are well regulated by a government that recognizes its duty is to protect citizens from the rapacious nature of Monopolists as conceived by Adam Smith.

I am most concerned by Democrats and Republicans who seek only market solutions for problems and the over whelming influence on the government by the wealthy and corporate tools of the wealthy.

I agree with mineralman that we need to control Congress and the Senate. One determined minority party can control our government simply by refusing to compromise because our system requires compromise to work and they believe their vision of the world is so wonderful that is it better to bring the government down then to compromise on a penny. On rare occasions, the U.S. has been blessed with really great leaders, but most of the time we get mediocre Bush's, Clinton's, and Obama's who can rise of fail to rise to meet the needs of the people depending on their abilities and temperament.

If you look at history, Democrats had a huge majority when they passed Social Security, the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and Medicare and still it was close. With closely divided government, we get only mediocre bills. Obama's Health Care bill has a few good things, but it is no Medicare or Social Security that changes things in a fundamental way for the better.

So, I agree that we should fight to take the House and Senate and not worry too much about who is in the Whitehouse. If we had a large majority of Democrats in the House and Senate, we will get more liberal/progressive legislation.

[whatchamacallit]

11. The fallacy in your thinking is that Obama is the alternative

From what I've seen, he's likely to embrace them and champion their cause.

[MineralMan]

14. No, it it not a fallacy. Obama is Obama. Give him a decent

Congress and he will do OK. Give him a Republican House and Senate, and there will be not a damn thing he can do. They will be in total control. Our country has a weak executive by design. It is, perhaps, the single most dangerous flaw in the Constitution. A congress with a 2/3 majority can do anything it wants, no matter who is in the White House.

I don't expect President Obama to remake the country. He won't. I'm just hoping to keep it from destruction by the right. They will.

I'm not talking about 2012 here. I'm talking about the future direction of this nation. Obama is just one President. We've had a bunch of Presidents. Congress is something else. It has no face. It has no name. It has, however, vast power.

[Hydra]

19. Romneycare was not a step forward

Nor was the Gulf Oil disaster.

You need to send your message of disaster not to us, but to the WH. They need to be the change they promised.

[MineralMan]

21. Details. I'm not talking about details.

HCR benefited several people I know. It will benefit more. It's not what I wanted. I want taxpayer funded single payer. The Gulf Oil Disaster was a long time in preparation. The seeds for it were sown long ago. Both are details. I doubt the Republicans will give you what you or I want. Seriously.

[Hydra]

22. "I doubt the Republicans will give you what you or I want."

False Choices. The Dems have decided they want what the Repubs have. The Repubs want to keep it.

Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch.

The thing is, if the Dems can't or won't represent 95% of us, we need to find people who will, or we need a new system.

[MineralMan]

24. Good luck with that. I deal in realities, not fantasies.

There is no party that will every represent 95% of any group.

[Morning Dew]

12. What? We couldn't afford tuition at the for profit college?

[MineralMan]

18. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Sorry.

[lunatica]

15. I have my doubts about our so called 'greatness' as a country

I would hate to see this country resurrect itself into it's former 'glory'. But I agree that we're going through a crucial time. My hope is that we go in a better direction. I remember thinking that we were about to grow up a little after the defeat of Viet Nam and the defeat of the Iran hostage situation, but instead Reagan became President and took us back to the 'good old days' of the US being bad ass. We were on the verge of significant change for the better but chose to return to our stomping ass teenage ways.

[MineralMan]

17. The path of this country isn't a binary thing, nor does it change

quickly. It could, under certain circumstances, and that's what I want to avoid. So far, it's worked more or less. That could change very quickly now, I believe.

[lunatica]

26. I am a Progressive which means I see possibility and potential

at every turn. This country hasn't even scratched the surface of its potential. Visionaries like John Kennedy saw its potential when he started us on the path to go to the Moon. Visionaries like Martin Luther King Jr saw it when he set us on the path to racial equality. If he hadn't been killed it's quite possible he would have also made inroads to stopping our wars.

There is nothing to return this country to that would make it great. There is a lot of potential for greatness though. We have been forward thinking in our past by daring to think about doing things differently. We can be again, but it has to be done consciously and deliberately. Like our forefathers did.

I think the worst thing that is happening is the conservative drive to return to the past. To the days before the Civil Rights movement, or the women's movement or the pre-union era. The first decade of the 21st Century looks an awful lot like first decade of the 20th Century to me. And that means we're moving backwards.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Agree completely, but electing Democratic state reps, senators and governors is just as important

That is where it all begins.

Don

[MineralMan]

20. Yes. Absolutely. I agree. I was just trying to keep the

subject as narrow as possible. I believe that an all-out effort to elect a Democratic Congress will have the effect of electing Democratic state legislatures, too. They're equally important.

If the Republicans could ever get a 2/3 majority in Congress, we would see Constitutional Amendments sent to the states very quickly, I believe. If they were also dominated by Republicans, what I fear most would result. That, in fact, is the very possibility that worries me.

[HereSince1628]

23. If we've got to do this fear crapola, lets do FREEDOM FROM FEAR

Along with...Freedom from Want

Those are just HALF of the Freedoms FDR rallied people to support.

Aren't we at least half as good and half as deserving as Democrats in the 1930's?

[CrispyQ]

25. I don't agree with you often, but I do agree

that there is no guarantee that anything that replaces our current government will be even as good as what we have now. Talk of revolution is easy. Implementing a plan for what happens after wards, is not.

Here is an article about Jack Cafferty & Wolf Blitzer recently admitting that they did not know what Dominionism was.

CNN's Blitzer & Cafferty: 'Never Heard of Dominionism'
by Frederick Clarkson
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/8/19/12651/2228

snip...

You could probably hear my dropping jaw hitting the floor when I heard Jack Cafferty and Wolf Blitzer say they had never heard of dominionism until they read Michelle Goldberg's article on The Daily Beast. They apparently had never heard of Christian Reconstructionism or the New Apostolic Reformation either. Goldberg's article on Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann's relationship to all of this was certainly well done. But it is amazing that no other journalist of any prominence had looked into it before Goldberg's revelations. There are many, and ever-more prominent pols with similar ties. And the failure of our national media and political culture to come to grips with this has been astounding. At least to me. As someone who has written about the Religious Right in its various dimensions for about 30 years, I've watched with horror as too many (but not all) mainstream media missed or misreported the stories of one of the most significant political movements of our time.

...more...

You really cannot have been awake in American public life for the past few decades and not have encountered dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism. Blitzer and Cafferty are far from alone in snoozing comfortably through this part of our national life. They are just more startlingly honest that this is no dream.

===
A "Cafferty File" video is also on that page.

DU thread discussing the above: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x297790


on edit: spelling

[MineralMan]

28. Yes, the ignorance about what the Christian Reconstructionists

and Dominionists have in mind for this country is shocking. Perhaps we should be spending more time educating the media. I don't know. I think most people are still clueless about the danger. When I've pointed out the close ties Blackwater had with these people, nobody paid any attention. God's Army, they were intended to be, and probably still are as Xe.

[Liberal Veteran]

29. I am going to say this again. and again. and again.

It is fucking bullshit that our party is the party of unions and solidarity and greater good of the whole, yet we divide ourselves into hundreds of little cliques to make ourselves easier to pick off by the republican juggernaut.

Both the "goosestepping" and the "rock bottom" folks should realize that children will starve, lives will be irrevocably destroyed, homes broken, homelessness, institutionalization, slavery, persecution, and poverty because things didn't move "fast enough" or "I didn't get 100% of what I want" and decided the better course was to burn the entire fucking thing to the ground and start over.

How many kids are you willing to let starve? How many AIDS patients and elderly and sick are you willing to let die? How many people must freeze in the streets?

There are people hanging on by their fingernails right now and if we don't get our shit together, when those people can no longer hold on, that blood will be as much on our hands because we acted like spoiled brats.

If your conscience can handle that, so be it. Mine can't and I WILL NOT BE A PARTY TO BURNING A VILLAGE TO SAVE IT!

It took the better part of a half century to get us here and that kind of inertia doesn't allow for turning on the spot.

[MineralMan]

33. Exactly right.

Thanks!

[TheKentuckian]

69. Burning down the village to save it is what both sides have to offer, in all effect

those decrying burning down the village pretend it will be saved by adopting the governing philosophy of the barbarians at the gate.

Inviting enemy tanks to roll down Broadway isn't saving jack apple shit either.

The path we are on is not salvation from hunger and oppression or shelter from freezing in the streets. We are working on multiplying the numbers as we speak.

The choice is false, the village is burning in either case. What fucking baby is in the bathwater? The baby is dead, if there was ever one and not just a pool of sludge. Its rotted corpse just makes more sludge.

Choices are more difficult when one is not under the pretense they have a preferable choice or that one road is less painful than the other but I have no faith whatsoever that their is a clear cut choice that will make a better end than another. My only option for hope is to turn away from a destructive path and that option is not presented by our politics and absolutely nothing is being done to lay a foundation to build on that would a different path even in future years. We will not "dig ourselves out of the hole" other than by emerging on the other side, digging clean through the Earth, essentially the same prescription one can rest assured in by signing up with the other guys.

The current path promises our destruction, I'll take slim odds over none, faint hope over relentlessly striding into oblivion. The inertia you speak of cannot be turned on the spot but one must begin turning immediately because more inertia will be building if the course is not altered, it is too hard, we'll do it later is not an answer to the problem. You have got to start nudging in a different direction to ever change and that is not happening now but rather the opposite we are pressing harder on the same course pretending that by some magic things will turn.

[Number23]

75. GREAT post

:thumbsup:

[jeff47]

76. The problem is both of our options are going to hurt those groups you want to protect

So what are you going to do?

Both parties are outside the village. One party has lit the torches. The other is wanting to compromise between burning the village down and only burning a few of the houses down.

How 'bout we fight for not burning the village down, instead of torching a few huts in the name of "compromise"?

[blkmusclmachine]

30. A new outfit called "Bless 7" is snookering the poor/disadvantaged in big states like TX & FL:

You have to sell your soul to them first, but they won't let you starve: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/08/20/3302990/bless-7-taking-money-making-promises.html

[MineralMan]

35. Pure pyramid scheme. Uff da!

Taking advantage of people seems to be endemic everywhere. If Jesus existed, He wouldn't be pleased with this shit, I'm sure.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[LongTomH]

34. I'm with you, MineralMan!

We need more Democrats, especially Progressive Democrats in Congress! If we lose control of Congress in 2012, I think we're screwed for generations to come!


For the people who want to give up on the Democratic party, let me say this: "The worst Democrat is better than any Republican." (I was going to say 'the best Republican;' but, I just can't bring myself to use the adjective 'best' anywhere near the noun 'Republican.':puke:

[MineralMan]

36. Thank you.

If we all work on this, we can get back to arguing among ourselves after November 2012. For now, though, I think there's work to be done, and now is far from too soon to begin.

[emulatorloo]

38. Rec nt

[Rex]

39. How do you know!? Got a crystal ball hidden somewhere?

You have no idea what will happen nor do I or anyone else. We can predict sunshine or Armageddon until the cows come home and it won't make any difference.

[MineralMan]

40. It's my opinion. What else would it be?

I do have an idea of what will happen. I could be wrong, or I could be right. Obviously, it is my opinion that I am right. You can see my disclaimer in my signature line. DU is all about opinion. You will notice that I used the two words, "I believe" twice in the OP. That's an indication that I'm posting an opinion. What if my opinion is correct?

Our opinions will not alter the course of history. Our actions, however, can. I choose to act to prevent what I'm talking about. What you choose to do or not do is your deal. Thanks for reading my post.

[Rex]

42. You don't have to get all defensive, you wrote it.

And I completely agree with you. Thanks for the reply.

[Taverner]

41. I wonder if we should break apart

It certainly helped the USSR

Yeah, just like Belarus there will be Florida and just like the Turkmenistan and Tajikistan there will be Texas and Georgia or a new Confederacy (not bashing - just look at who's in charge right now)

But Ukraine and Russia made out well. Not to mention the Baltics. I mean, despite recent developments.

[MineralMan]

44. And how would we do that? There's no mechanism for it.

Like I said above, I deal in reality, not fantasy.

[Taverner]

47. There was no mechanism in the breaking of the USSR either

There simply won't be one, and that is a scary prospect

The way I see it as thus: Do you want there to be a USA 10, 20, 50 years from now? If so vote Obama, ignore his faults, but spend your energy working to elect local progressives to the House, Senate, State Assemblies and Senates and School Boards.

If you want it all to break apart, or worse, be engaged in a years long civil war, vote third party. That way Perry or Bachmann takes over, and we get to see what 24 x 7 fascism really is.

[MineralMan]

55. Exactly. That's just what I'm suggesting. Thanks for

agreeing with me. I know you don't want a civil war or something like that, so I know I can count on you in 2012.

[Taverner]

57. I'll vote, but because he's the best we get

Alternatives are not an option right now

Besides, why not see what he does with a progressive congress?

[MineralMan]

61. I'd love to see what he does with a progressive Congress.

I think there would be a lot of surprised folks. In fact, I'm sure of it.

[Taverner]

70. My guess is he'd fight one. But it still doesn't hurt our odds. And I know what a GOP Prez would do.

Even some milquetoast like Romney.

[Rex]

45. What I want to know is how the HELL Rick Perry can run of an office

just two months prior he wanted to secced from! If that is what politics has come to, then we are fuckerd. HAS anyone brought that up yet?

[Taverner]

46. Perry is very dangerous

He makes "The Family" look like PFAW

[Rex]

48. Yes he is and would be the spark in an ammo depot.

[Taverner]

49. Oh trust me, under him there will be a religious test to get a firearm

He may pander to the NRA, but he knows who he wants his paramilitary to be...

[BeFree]

50. Do we finally agree?

That they would do whatever is necessary to steal votes?

We do agree that they are working to destroy America, so why wouldn't anyone see that they have infiltrated the voting process and are stealing elections.

[Joe Fields]

52. Opinions vary, but I definitely do not share yours...

On edit, I would say, judging by the responses I've received, most people here agree with me.

[MineralMan]

54. OK. I don't expect agreement from any particular person.

Does that mean I shouldn't post my opinion? I don't think so. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion. As for people agreeing with you, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Did you post something? Do you have a link? DU is not a popularity contest. It's a place to discuss ideas. Beyond that, it serves no particular function.

[Union Scribe]

59. Maybe you should point your urgent message to the WH

Because they're the ones kicking the can down the road like we have all the time in the world.

[MineralMan]

60. What makes you think I'm not doing exactly that?

I can do both things, and do exactly that. I also communicate with state and local legislators. Did you think I didn't? Why?

[Union Scribe]

62. Great. Maybe you'll post some of those communications

for others to use as a template.

[MineralMan]

63. No. I won't do that. Communicating with elected officials only

works when it's original thinking on the part of the writer.

[Union Scribe]

64. Well maybe we'd want to read them for inspiration.

That'd be a hell of a lot better than street preaching about the coming apocalypse.

[Liberal Veteran]

68. I'm more than comfortable with MM's liberal credentials.

[MineralMan]

73. You know what? No.

I post here on DU for DUers. I communicate with elected officials for another reason, and in another way. I don't believe that it would serve any purpose to post those communications here. But thanks for asking. I'll pass, though, assuming that you're serious about your request. If you'd doing something else, I'm not playing.

[Lucian]

71. All great empires eventually fall.

[BzaDem]

72. K&R.

[WinkyDink]

74. Our historic mistake was NOT taking to the streets for Bush v. Gore.