Private Manning -Uniform Code of Military Justice 813. Art. 13- Punishment prohibited before trial

[Ellipsis]

813. ART. 13 PUNISHMENT PROHIBITED BEFORE TRIAL

No person, while being held for trial, may be subjected to punishment or penalty other than arrest or confinement upon the charges pending against him, nor shall the arrest or confinement imposed upon him be any more rigorous than the circumstances required to insure his presence, but he may be subjected to minor punishment during that period for infractions of discipline.

http://www.constitution.org/mil/ucmj19970615.htm#II

[Occam Bandage]

1. I would think that solitary without exercise or visitors is "more rigorous than required."

[lovuian]

2. Pretty clear

their in violation
He's being made an example

they better be afraid
the Military rebelling from their handlers
brings revolutions

[stray cat]

3. I assume the concern is you don't want him contacting other prisoners about stashes of stolen files?

So solitary may be reasonable?

[Poll_Blind]

4. Well, we already know that he's being given some form of medicaiton by the government and...

...is refused the ability even to exercise in his cell- per the recent Greenwald article.

Those sound over and above what the UCMJ states is allowed.

PB

[Poll_Blind]

5. n/t

PB

[hayu_lol]

6. The reference to Art. 13 in this thread...

does not apply to this guy. Article 13 is company/squadron level punishment meted out by his immediate commander. It does not apply to Manning because his charges and trial will be a General Courts Martial.

Under the UCMJ, he can be charged with a huge pile of different offenses--all of them major and some carrying the possibility of a death penalty. Going to take the powers that be some time to figure out exactly what to charge him with...and to take great pains to keep him alive until the eventual trial.

[Ellipsis]

7. Thank you.

[rgbecker]

9. I interested in why you took that quote from Article 13 down?

[Ellipsis]

11. I'm thinking it may possibly be inaccurate... But I put it back for sake of discussion

See Post #6

Let the chips fall where they may. I'm not concerned with his crime... only how he's treated while in custody.

[rgbecker]

12. Thanks for the post....

I don't think anything in the post #6 counters your post. I'm in total agreement that the process needs to reflect American values...especially in the Military. I hope this guy gets a decent lawyer.

[Ellipsis]

13. His Lawyer is David E. Coombs

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.com/


and your'e welcome.

[rgbecker]

8. I think you are thinking of article 15....

I was charged under that one back in 1970.

[qazplm]

18. well not quite right

Article 13 is simply impermissible pretrial punishment. It absolutely can apply to Manning regardless of the level of Court-Martial being a Special or General C-M. You are right that the ordinary usage of Article 13 is to address things like unit/BN/BDE personnel "messing" with someone for want of a better word. I've seen everything from pulling off rank right after a trial (rank isn't reduced until 14 days after trial) to worse things.

IF while in confinement, he were subjected by the MPs or others to some sort of improper treatment, that would in fact be a violation of Article 13 and motion on that would be filed by the defense counsel.

The very fact of his confinement would not be an article 13 issue but would instead by addressed first with a pretrial confinement hearing, and then if that didn't work and the defense counsel thought in effect the magistrate got it wrong, he or she could then go to the military judge and try and get the accused sprung. We generally don't put soldiers into confinement except for flight risks or those who are a threat to themselves or others so it is somewhat surprising if Manning is in pretrial confinement although I don't know all the facts of his case.

I highly doubt anything he's charged with will be an offense punishable by death. He is going to spend a long time at the DB though.

[qazplm]

19. can you link the greenwald article (nevermind found it)

I doubt that he would be refused the ability to exercise in his cell.

The cells are pretty spartan, I don't think anyone is saying, stop doing pushups or jumping jacks or otherwise restraining him
Now is it possible he isn't getting "rec-time?" Sure, and there can be legitimate and non-legitimate reasons for that.

IF Greenwald is correct, then it's pretty simple that his defense counsel will have ample ammunition to get sentence relief as it sounds more excessive than necessary. He's let out for an hour so I assume that's for showers and tv? I don't know. He shouldn't be in solitary. I'm a little curious why he is at Quantico. The Army does send a few of their folks there but usually army pre-trial confinees end up at Fort Sill.

This may be a Marine thing, as I don't think he'd be getting this treatment in an Army confinement facility. Akbar is much more hated and he doesn't get nearly that kind of treatment (other than the solitary part being on death row and whatnot).

[Ellipsis]

20. Link

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

<snip>

From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not "like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole," but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.

<snip>

[qazplm]

21. found it see above

I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle but it's perplexing to me why he's at Quantico and I only know how the army operates not the marines. For the army it would be extreme and I don't think he would be in solitary at say fort sill regional confinement facility.

If what Greenwald says is true, his defense counsel will have a good motion for confinement credit in addition to day for day pretrial confinement credit.

[Ellipsis]

22. This huffingtonpost link may be more helpful for you

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/15/bradley-manning-wikileaks-charges-_n_797276.html

NEW YORK — Detained U.S. Army Private Bradley Manning's supporters went public with their concerns about the harsh conditions of his imprisonment — he has no access to exercise or even a pillow and bedsheets during his solitary confinement — only after their complaints to the military over several months went unheeded.

As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported on Wednesday, Manning, who has been accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of any crime but has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico "under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture."

"We were aware of those situations and we were hoping that they would improve without applying public pressure through the media," Jeff Paterson, who runs Manning's legal defense fund, told The Huffington Post. "His attorney and supporters were hoping that this could be taken care of through the appropriate channels."

[qazplm]

23. no

I get the gist of the argument. I'm just prone to say that having been a defense attorney in the military system for a fairly long period of time, generally my experience has been that you can't take 100% accurate complaints of pretrial confinees...you have to investigate.

IF he is in solitary, that is unusual, and possibly something he will get credit for from the judge if his attorney raises it, but do I believe that it's torture? No, not unless a whole lot of other military prisoners throughout the years have been tortured as well. I think it warrants asking questions and delving into absolutely, but I'd need to hear both sides before I jump to conclusions.
The no pillow or bedsheets thing sounds fairly incredulous (both in believing it is actually happening, and if it is happening, in believing that such treatment would be condoned).

I know of Mr. Coombs work from other cases he has done. I will not give any personal assessments one way or the other, except to say he certainly has a fair number of courts-martial under his belt from his time as a JAG officer so he knows how things are supposed to be and he knows who to ask questions of and how to file a motion, so I suspect if there is merit to this we should see something from Coombs.

[Ellipsis]

24. It really does amaze me sometimes at the people who post here. Thanks for your words.

Have a good evening.

[qazplm]

25. I can't tell if you are upset at me

or not. I'm simply counseling from my experience that I would need to hear from both sides and need more information.

IF we simply take at face value all that Greenwald alleges, then it would be both highly unusual (at least from my army-centric experience) and very likely a violation of military law and regulations which should be addressed by either and ideally stopping what they are doing by going to the judge and getting an order, or I suppose waiting and trying to slice as much time off of Manning's eventual sentence as possible on the other end with sentence credit.

The military moves fairly quickly compared to the civilian sector in holding trials so I'd be surprised if his court-martial doesn't go in the next few months. He certainly will have a visit or two in front of the military judge during that time so he certainly can raise those issues on his own if he truly wants to and feels his attorney isn't addressing them.

[EFerrari]

26. If he still has the cognitive ability to do that by that time. n/t

[Ellipsis]

27. Not at all counselor. I find you posting on this thread reassuring.

I'm quite sincere and I understand there are professional ethics to consider.

It's quite the kettle of fish here at DU.


To slip into my sometimes "Sconi"(Wisconsinite) lingo "I ain't blowing no smoke up your ass "dontcha" know."



:toast:

Peace

[EFerrari]

28. It's one of my favorite parts of DU.

:)

[Ellipsis]

30. You betcha.

How's that dog of yours?

[EFerrari]

31. She's giving me The Look so we better get out there soon.

Before it freezes tonight, anyway. lol

[qazplm]

29. good to know

it is true that this does need to be delved into. At best it is unusual, at worst it is a series of violations of his rights. I hope his defense counsel takes the accusations seriously and investigates and raises the appropriate motions if warranted.

[duhneece]

34. Any way we civilians can write to Private Manning

Is there any way to write to him or to his family to express our solidarity or our concern for his well-being or his future?

[Octafish]

10. Absolutely clear.

Thank you, Ellipsis. Somehow I knew that, but it hadn't gotten to the surface where I could read it. That's the fault of our "free" press.

In today's America, the government is supposed to know what all the citizens are doing and the citizens are supposed to be in the dark about what the government is doing. That's NAZI.

The good soldier is being given the Padilla Treatment and made to suffer beforehand. That's NAZI, too.

[EFerrari]

14. I remember the rule of law. nt

[girl gone mad]

15. If true, how is he not a political prisoner?

[Ellipsis]

16. You might want to ask his attorney that.

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.com/

[Ellipsis]

17. kick

[glinda]

32. K & R again

[kgnu_fan]

33. kick

[Uncle Joe]

35. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ellipsis.

[Mudoria]

36. They should let him into the general population

[NobodyHere]

38. Probably a bad idea

Unless you want him to get shanked.

[Ellipsis]

39. Welcome to DU... Quantico isn't really that kind of prison per say.

Marine Corps Brig, Quantico is a Level 1 facility military prison operated at Marine Corps Base Quantico in Quantico, Virginia. By definition, this means that it can house relatively few inmates (at the time of writing, about 45) and is not equipped for sentences over 90 days.

In practice, the facility can house approximately 250 inmates in living arrangements ranging from squadbays (for general population) to Special Quarters 2, effectively solitary confinement. The facility is used primarily to allow military inmates to serve sentences of a year or less (generally) and as a place to temporarily harbor inmates awaiting transfer to longer term facilities, such as the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

[riderinthestorm]

37. Have to get back to work but this deserves to be back on top before I go. K& R. nt