Arne Duncan tried to meet with Matt Damon before the SOS rally in D. C. last month.

[madfloridian]

He even offered to drive him from the airport if he would talk to him. Damon refused the offer.

Perhaps as the WP pointed out, Matt Damon was remembering the time President Obama made reference to him at the WH Correspondents dinner:

In his comic address to the White House Correspondents dinner in May, Obama said:

“I’ve even let down my key core constituency: movie stars. Just the other day, Matt Damon -- I love Matt Damon, love the guy -- Matt Damon said he was disappointed in my performance. Well, Matt, I just saw ‘The Adjustment Bureau’ so...right back atcha, buddy.”

Here is more from The Answer Sheet about Arne's efforts.

How badly did Arne Duncan want to talk to Matt Damon?

It turns out that people in the Obama administration made several attempts to reach actor Matt Damon just before he spoke at last month’s Save Our Schools rally in Washington D.C., blasting education policies that focus on high-stakes standardized tests.

According to two people familiar with the efforts, the administration tried to arrange a meeting with Damon and government officials, including Education Secretary Arne Duncan, before the July 30 march. The sources declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter.

In fact, Duncan was willing to meet Damon at the airport when he flew into the Washington region and talk to him on the drive into the city, according to the sources. Damon declined all of the requests.

Damon had some powerful words to say at the Save Our Schools Rally last month.

Matt Damon speaks at Save our Schools rally... condemns “punitive policies” that harm teachers.

Actor and activist Matt Damon spoke at the Save Our Schools rally today. Before he spoke, Damon granted ThinkProgress an exclusive interview. We asked him about how teachers unions are being demonized in much of the media and teachers are being blamed as the root of all problems in public education. Damon told us that the attacks on teachers unions are part of a larger “war on unions over the last decade” and condemned “punitive policies” that punish teachers without looking at the social factors that lead to student achievement.

...I said before that I had incredible teachers. And that’s true. But it’s more than that. My teachers were EMPOWERED to teach me. Their time wasn’t taken up with a bunch of test prep— this silly drill and kill nonsense that any serious person knows doesn’t promote real learning. No, my teachers were free to approach me and every other kid in that classroom like an individual puzzle.They took so much care in figuring out who we were and how to best make the lessons resonate with each of us. They were empowered to unlock our potential. They were allowed to be teachers.

..."So the next time you’re feeling down, or exhausted, or unappreciated, or at the end of your rope; the next time you turn on the TV and see yourself called “over-paid”; the next time you encounter some simple-minded, punitive policy that’s been driven into your life by some corporate reformer who has literally never taught anyone anything…

Please know that there are millions of us behind you.

Valerie Strauss ended her WP column with an interesting question about how a group of civil rights activists had their efforts thwarted when they tried to speak out last year about education.

I've said before that it is fair to wonder if the sudden interest was akin to the administration’s efforts last summer to blunt criticism of Obama policies when a coalition of civil rights groups released a framework for education reform. In the few days before the framework was released, administration officials met with some of the coalition leaders, and a few of them backed off their criticism.

More about the civil rights groups and their sudden about face after confronting the administration. From Education Week last year.

[EFerrari]

1. Invisible rec.

:kick:

[William769]

2. Matt Damon.

A classy guy!

:applause:

[Occulus]

85. I like his movies

What I've been hearing about him lately makes me like him. Seems to be a pretty decent, ethical, intelligent guy.

If he ever gets tired of acting, well, we need people like him making law.

[I Have A Dream]

98. Yes, "Good Will Hunting" has one of the best scenes ever, in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2LpAS0smAk

That was a great performance, and I love that those words were actually written by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.

[VWolf]

128. Agreed, great scene

Hilarious and tragic at the same time.

[madfloridian]

159. Awesome clip. I loved that part. I did not know they wrote it.

I just watched it in awe for the 2nd or 3rd time.

[truedelphi]

190. Thanks for posting.

That is an amazing bit of writing, and an amazing bit of acting.

Damon is the real deal. Ben Affleck too.


If a person needs America's imperialistic policies spelled out, those two young men did it as well or better than anyone alive.

[GoCubsGo]

172. Classy????

No, "classy" is taking the time to talk to someone about something that is supposedly so important to you, even though you feel like they insulted you somehow, rather than avoiding them. They both remind me of a couple of bickering teen-age girls.

[Bake]

179. Really? Why should he talk to someone who cares NOTHING about education?

It's like sleeping with the enemy.

Kudos, Mr. Damon, for telling them to stick it.

Bake

[William769]

189. Arne Duncan & his cohorts could learn what class is from Matt Damon.

[proverbialwisdom]

198. Just caught his latest PSA.

http://feedingamerica.org/sitefiles/psa/src/videos.html

Check it out.

[William769]

201. Thanks for the link.

:hi:

[sabrina 1]

3. Very snide remark by the President, and dismissive of a serious

subject, about Damon's latest movie. I thought he was above that kind of cynical, keyboard-warrior type snideness.

I am glad they did not meed with Damon, but I doubt it would have kept him from speaking out. His mom is a teacher and she appears to have done a great job.

Maybe he ought to consider politics himself. He's an awful lot smarter than some of the other Hollywood actors, Reagan, Arnold, eg, who've done so.

:kick:

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DefenseLawyer]

11. It was at the correspondents dinner

The President is expected to tell jokes. That being said, the President would be wise to start listening to Matt instead of Arne, because Damon is absolutely right. Sadly there's no money in it, so he won't.

[sabrina 1]

15. I guess I don't find these WH Dinner jokes funny when they

relate to serious issues of life and death for the American people, or other people for that matter. Especially when they give a clue as to how administrations involved view these issues.

I didn't like it when Bush did it, and frankly, considering the state of the country right now, they ought to start getting more serious about fixing things, then go back to making fun of things. A lot of people, unless they are 'insiders' find these events distasteful at this time, as we did when Bush was doing it.

I guess I lost my sense of humor somewhere over the past number of years. I just can't see the fun all these millionaires in DC see, about these issues. Sort of like I wouldn't see much funny in a joke about my neighbor losing their home.

[Vattel]

26. Hey it could be worse.

Obama could have joked about using predator drones to keep boys away from his daughters. Given the civilian deaths that have resulted from the use of predator drones, that would be extremely offensive. Oh wait, I guess he did make that joke.

[Whisp]

97. so millionaires in DC = bad. millionaires in Hollywood = good.

ok, got it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

111. And what law has Hollywood passed demaning we give them

a portion of our wages?

People are millionaires in Hollywood because the give us something we want and are willing to pay for.

DC, not so much.

[sabrina 1]

125. It depends on the Millionaires.

Hollywood has good and bad millionaires:

Eg. Matt Damon = Good, John Voight = Bad

DC has good and bad millionaires.

Just like everyone else. Not all poor people are good or bad either.

So I guess you don't get it.

Nice try though.

[totodeinhere]

155. Have you set yourself up as the one who gets to decide who is good and bad in this world?

I don't necessarily find people that I disagree with politically "bad." We have a difference of opinion but in this world there should be room for contrary opinions.

[sabrina 1]

171. Well, if having an opinion on politicians who have a track record

or on Hollywood Political activists is setting myself up to be sole arbiter of what is good and bad in the world, I guess you would say that. Except having an opinion does not suggest any such thing.

The words 'good' and 'bad' were not my words. Read the post I responded to. And if someone wants to have a rational debate, they don't start the discussion with an attack.

I support Democrats, progressive Democrats. People who care about people and this country. I do not support Republicans because they do not care about people or this country. They work for Big Business. I do not expect the Democrats we help get elected to end up supporting the bad policies of Republicans.

And anything I say is simply my opinion.

[totodeinhere]

178. You are right, you were responding to someone else. But to make a blanket statement that

"Republicans...do not care about people or this country" is counterproductive IMO. If you had said "some Republicans" I would agree with you, but I don't agree with saying "all." I live in a very red area that voted over 70% for Bush in both 2000 and 2004. The congressional district I live in has always elected a Republican ever since it was created after the 1980 census. I am a rare Democrat around these parts. Yet most of the people I know in my community are hard working people who want what is best for their families and for their country. Yes, many of them are Republicans but I know first hand from my acquaintance with them that they do care.

I wonder how many Republicans you know personally. I wonder if you met my parents who are life long Republicans would you think that they don't care about people or their country either. I love my parents but I disagree with them. They sincerely believe that many social programs do more harm than good because they get people used to depending on government rather than themselves. I know this is a GOP talking point and as I said I disagree with them. But they sincerely believe it and I don't think that makes them bad people. And they aren't stupid either. Both are well educated professionals.

I also know some public school teachers in this area. For whatever reason most of them are also Republicans. But from what I can tell they are professional and they try to remain neutral in the classroom and refrain for indoctrinating their students about politics one way or the other.

Edit - You didn't say "all Republicans" but you didn't qualify it to say "some Republicans" either.

[sabrina 1]

181. Well, like you, I am a rare Democrat among my family and friends.

So I know many Republicans and I know they are good people. I was referring to Republicans in Congress who do not represent the people who elect them from my observations. I thought it was clear that we were talking about Washington Republicans, my error, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Even if there are good Republican Reps in Congress, they do not stand up against the Party leadership and their completely Corporate friendly, anti American worker policies. So I am not aware of any to be honest. If they are there, they need to start standing up as they are the most unpopular people in the country right now.

But Democrats are only barely ahead of them because rather than draw a clear line of differences, they have moved to the right. As the Firemen's Union said when deciding not to contribute to Federal Election Pacs 'you don't win elections as a Democrat by moving to the right' and slamming Unions eg.

[totodeinhere]

182. OK thanks. I have no problem with that and the misunderstanding might have been my fault, not yours.

n/t

[Marr]

154. No, millionaires who stand up for teachers = good, millionaires who slam them and

try to dismantle the public school system = bad

[Bake]

180. At least the Hollywood millionaires give a shit about progressive policies.

DC, not so much.

Bake

[Whisp]

183. you mean like that Baldwin brother nutjob?

would be nice to live in such an easily defined black and white, good and evil world you seem to reside in.

send postcards

[Bluenorthwest]

205. Hey Alec is odd, but he's a sharp, Democratic sort of odd

I know you guys on the right side of things tend to slam Alec at every turn, but man, he is not the subject here. What you are doing is exhibiting prejudice. I've met lawyers who were Republicans and open racists, thus, lawyers are racists?
Of course, you could not mean that other Baldwin who is flat broke, bankrupt, from and living on Long Island, New York.
So he's not a millionaire and not from Hollywood. A flat broke Long Island a-hole.

[Ken Burch]

217. Right-wing millionaires=bad, progressive millionaires=OK

There's no contradiction in liking wealthy class traitors.

[markpkessinger]

64. Why, this one was almost as funny as the one about predator drones n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

147. I'm wasn't really defending it as much as putting it in context

It's certainly open to argument as to whether these "comedy routines" by Presidents are actually funny, or even appropriate at all. Nonetheless, President Obama certainly isn't the first take part in this tradition and trying to take one of these "jokes" as an actual statement by the President is probably a tad bit unfair.

[Bluenorthwest]

203. The key to 'roast' like events where one is 'expected' to crack

wise at others is to avoid the wise cracks that have a personal element. That is you do not really insult someone. You do not mine real personal territory in a public event where one is 'expected' to make jokes. A personal, actual insult is not a joke. It is an insult. At that dinner, no one is expected to actually insult others. We all remember that Wanda Sykes was dragged over the coals for making a joke about wishing disease on Limbaugh at that same event, and event you suggest is warrant to say and do anything.
And of course, the film Obama did not like is a Phillip K Dick story that would be above the head of anyone devoted to authoritarian and right wing government as Obama is. Dick is one of the greatest American writers. Brittle minded men such as the President never get Dick. As they say.

[CakeGrrl]

12. Oh for hell's sake, it was the WH Correspondent's Dinner and it was about a MOVIE.

He didn't attack Damon for his stance on education. THAT would have been snide.

So the President can take all sorts of shit, but he can't hand back one iota of it in a setting that is DEFINED by dishing out jokes? No sale.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. Have you never heard of the Correspondents' Dinner?

They perform these things called... jokes.

[sabrina 1]

45. Yes, I remember when Bush used it to 'joke' about WMDs

crawling around the Oval Office looking for them. Very funny, except for those who had lost loved actually looking for them.

Times are tough for those who are not part of the wealthy elite who belong to the DC club and these expensive DC dinners and outside of DC, I doubt anyone is laughing at the humor. Of course, when you are a millionaire, it's easy to joke at the expense of the little people.

I expected it of Bush. I have a feeling that if Jimmy Carter eg, was in the WH right now, he would not bother with that 'glittering' event.

When you've lost your job and your home and when you are a teacher who has been fired so Arne Duncan can continue to destroy the Public school system, the joke is not so funny. Sorry, I didn't think Bush was funny either.

These rituals are of little benefit to the average American right now. And are hardly amusing to anyone other than those who support the subtle implication in the President's 'joke'.

[chervilant]

63. + a gazillion

Yeah, and defending 'humor' to someone who acknowledges finding it in bad taste is akin to a bully saying, "but, I didn't *MEAN* anything by it; it was all in good fun!"

(Apparently, Obama sycophants want you to find Obama's humor benign, as well as funny.)

[markpkessinger]

65. Yes, and who can forget Obama joking about predator drones n/t

[MissDeeds]

70. +1000

Well said!

[SusanaMontana41]

80. All true. Fanned and faved, sister! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

82. + 100 nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

83. Jesus Christ.

You're comparing Bush joking about the rationale that led to the deaths of thousands of soldiers and many more civilians with a joke Obama made about a movie star? By the way, how can you complain about the "wealthy elite" making jokes about a movie star who has a *much larger* bank account than the President does? Are multimillionaires working-class heroes now?

The Correspondents' Dinner is an event all presidents attend and has existed since the 1920s. And by the way, if you had read closely, the Matt Damon movie Obama mocked (way back in May) was "The Adjustment Bureau," which has absolutely nothing to do with the educational system.

[U4ikLefty]

223. fail

[Occulus]

89. oh MY

[Pooka Fey]

175. + 1,000,000.00

[madfloridian]

176. Amen to all that.

[Bluenorthwest]

206. Here is what the WH, via Robert Gibbs, said about a Wanda

Sykes joke at Correspondent's Dinner last year or year before: "I think there are a lot of topics that are better left for serious reflection rather than comedy. I think there's no doubt 9/11 is part of that."
So they are of the opinion that there are jokes, then there are bad jokes. No one, in any event, is given full warrant to simply spew at others. And once your own office has gone on record that the event calls for limits, one needs to back the fuck off the mean spirited and personally petty material. It is that simple.

[sabrina 1]

220. Thank you. I agree with him. Too bad he didn't tell the president

that.

Excellent find and shows the hypocrisy involved when a subject some of us feel fits the category he mentioned as 'best left for serious reflection rather than comedy' doesn't stop them from doing exactly what they objected to others doing.

[shanti]

55. if matt damon ran on a new labor party ticket

he would get my vote! awesome that he is standing up for the unions!

[Remember Me]

73. But that wasn't why Damon gave them a cold shoulder

Matt's mother is a teacher. He has been VERY eloquent on what is happening to our teachers, and our education. This just blew me away:

Matt Damon defends teachers against a libertarian d00chebag and her cameraman!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1645148

[sabrina 1]

87. Yes, I know, and I did see him slap down that woman which was

awesome. I do think he knows that he could not accomplish much by meeting with Arne Duncan who has demonstrated how out of touch he is with what education actually means. Having a mom who is a teacher, and she must be a great one as she did such a good job with her son, and knowing how this administration has disrespected the profession, he probably felt it was best not to even pretend that they had anything in common. I doubt there is any chance of changing Duncan's very closed, business oriented mind. Why waste the time?

[frazzled]

160. Someone who refuses to have a discussion ...

is not someone who I consider a thinking person.

What impediment to his views or his supposed eloquence would having a discussion have created? GIving someone the "cold shoulder," as you put it, is hardly the mark of someone who is serious. It would have been a good opportunity to express his views to the EdSec and, if necessary, explain why the EdSec's conversation was unuseful. But to refuse a meeting is myopic, insular, and frankly egotistical.

[Divernan]

167. You can apply your "myopic, insular & frankly egotistical" label to Obama then

when he has refused to meet with Harry Belafonte, other than to sneer at Belafonte, why don't you give me a break?

[_ed_]

141. Beneath the President

His hubris and ego is apparent in times like this.

[gratuitous]

4. So unfair!

If only Arne Duncan had a platform to reach people and to get his message out. That mean old Matt Damon wouldn't even take the time to meet with him so Duncan could explain all about how overpaid teachers are, and how incompetent they are, and how teachers are wrecking education in the country because they think unions are so cool. How can Arne ever get his ideas aired?

[Whisp]

5. I like Matt, I think his heart is in the right place

Cant' say I agree with him all the time, but that's how it is with every other person on earth - there is no one I agree with 100% all the time - not even myself, as I sometimes change my mind.

I doubt Matt took offense at Obama's ribbing... not sure if that is the gist of this post but
I think the OP is just assuming Matt is all miffed at Obama about that?

that would be silly. but I guess anything to put another notch in the 'Obama bad man' carvings.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. I was there at the SOS rally

Damon certainly is upset with Obama. He made that very clear when he spoke that day.

[Whisp]

100. he was upset about the joke?

nonsense.

[mod mom]

126. His words indicate the administration's policies are at fault, not the joke

:eyes:

[Whisp]

139. this from the OP:

''Perhaps as the WP pointed out, Matt Damon was remembering the time President Obama made reference to him at the WH Correspondents dinner:''

take those crazy rolling eyes to her

[proud2BlibKansan]

199. He didn't mention the joke

I have no idea how he feels about it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. Duncan did wonders for our Schools in Chicago.

Do I really need this :sarcasm:?

[Jakes Progress]

101. Whew. Please put the sarcasm thingie in the headline

when you say something that upsetting. I thought I was in for a twenty page reply until I clicked and say the red rain.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

133. Given half the shit I say. I should probably make that my sig line.

:evilgrin:

[Tatiana]

187. Yeah. He did a wonderful job of destroying them.

He made most of us long for the days of Paul Vallas.

[Hydra]

8. More evidence that the force is there in the WH

And it's being applied against the people who are standing up for what's right.

Great legacy they're writing for themselves...

[Enrique]

13. good point

another answer to the question, "what can Obama do?" He can do stuff like this. :thumbsup:

[Hydra]

14. Indeed

All of the things his supporters claim he "can't do" to get things moving with the Repubs, he has no problem using to good effect against Progressives- Bully pulpit, behind the scenes pressure, withholding support, pushing from the other end...

He's a master, but he's not on our side.

[CakeGrrl]

9. So Damon was unwilling to have even a discussion? Why?

Seems to me that if nothing else, it would be a chance to say what he's been saying right to the "offenders'" faces. Why back out?

Having a thin skin over a joke isn't serving him well, if true. If President Obama were as hypersensitive as his critics, he'd have combusted by now.

[zalinda]

16. Probably for the same reason I would decline a meeting with Obama

My anger is now so viseral, with this administration, that I would probably just scream at him, through my tears of anger. You get to a point that you couldn't be civil if you tried. I don't know if Matt is there yet, but maybe he is at Duncan. So, there would have been no point to having a sit down. Damon supported Obama, and has said he feels betrayed, so it has nothing to do with Obama's joke.

And, besides, what would have changed? Nothing. So why bother?

zalinda

[Whisp]

156. well damn good thing you aren't in charge of any discussion then.

alls good.

[sabrina 1]

18. You're late to the party. Damon was thrown under that big bus

about a week ago. Maybe you could start working on Trumka now? Btw, is there anyone left on the 'left' that we are still supposed to like? The list keeps growing shorter.

I guess you didn't know that his mother is a teacher. I guess it hasn't registered with a lot of people the complete disrespect Arne Duncan has shown to that profession. As a teacher I would not want to be in the same room with Duncan, he knows zero about education, although that is not his worst trait, people can improve their knowledge, but there is virtually no point in talking to people are on a mission to destroy the public schools and privatize education, fire experienced educators and, thinking of the bottom line, hire inexperienced people in their place.

The education policies of this administration, and I hate to have to say it as a Democrat, are worse than Bush's. Damon probably doesn't have much to say to someone who has shown his disdain for the profession. Others have tried, it is a waste of time.

[sudopod]

53. If enough people get under the bus, they will be able to carry it on their shoulders

which would be much more environmentally friendly.

[frylock]

21. why would he? he's not going to convince duncan that his policy is shit..

and i'm sure he didn't want to listen to arne's sales pitch on the aforementioned shit policy. if arne wants to talk, there's a shitload of pissed off teachers getting arrested in front of the white house that would be sure to lend a sympathetic ear.

[fishwax]

29. perhaps he just had other priorities

I doubt it had anything to do with the joke.

[NotThisTime]

47. Why should he talk to him? More like Arne trying to keep him quiet, Damon took down some dimwit

reporter who alluded to teachers in Unions and how safe they are and that's the reason kids don't learn. He told her that teachers are paid crap, they go in because they love the job and they were essentially not able to teach to the children, instead they are mandated. He through in a couple of adjectives as well.... I say go Matt!

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. He didn't have time

Matt flew all night from the set of a movie he is making in Canada and he left immediately after the rally to return to Canada.

[Jakes Progress]

102. Please read the OP before posting.

It wasn't a meeting with Obama. It was for a meeting with his point guard and all-round union basher arne duncan. No one in education wants to be near that piece of shit.

And you are way off if you think the reason Damon didn't meet with duncan was because of the joke. Damon has a notoriously wicked sense of humor. Just because the OP had a place that said Damon might remember the shot (crass as it was) doesn't mean anything. Damon is a principled citizen who knew he was being set up for use by an administration whose policies he dislikes by meeting with a person whose character he distrusts. Celebrities learn to know when someone is trying to use them.

Now. Do you have an opinion about the subject of the OP. Do you agree with Damon about the over use of standardized testing and teacher bashing and corporate influence in education? Do you favor these things? It would be nice if you had something to say about the subject of the OP rather than just trying to bash anyone who complains about Obama. So what are you views on education? We will be able to tell a lot if you would share.

[_ed_]

142. What discussion?

We all know what Obama and Duncan want.

[Divernan]

165. Why are you Circle D folks unwilling to have discussions?

You limit your posts to snark, pathetic attempts at spin, and attacking the messengers with vile name callings - all the while ignoring the substance of the criticisms of Obama.

To wit: the following question was posed on this thread to a Circle D poster, who apparently is not capable of responding independently.

"But on the subject of the OP, do you agree with Matt Damon about the direction toward massive standardized tests and heavy corporate influence in American education? Do you have an opinion about the subject of the OP or just a shot."

[Logical]

188. Because I doubt he gives a shit what Obama has to say!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Gandhi "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." K&R

[leveymg]

17. I hope that Matt Damon does to Arne Duncan what Hugh Grant did to Rupert Murdoch.

Destroy all monsters!

[mattclearing]

19. Matt Damon is the real deal.

He pushed A People's History back in Good Will Hunting, which he of course co-wrote with Ben Affleck.

If President Obama has ever read A People's History of the United States, it sure doesn't show in his ambivalence towards the labor movement and the social safety net.

Corporate Democrats should be rightfully terrified of Matt Damon. He has the star power, the brain and the passion for progressive policies to end their charade once and for all.

[Starry Messenger]

20. k&r

[Eyerish]

22. K&R

[TBF]

23. Good for Damon - why should he meet with that scumbag. nt

[loyalsister]

24. What then was the objective?

Protests and advocacy have usually been about getting a meeting. Unless people are privy to conversations within the WH, there is no reason to reject the possibility that they were open to listening.
Historically protests were used to make their voices heard. I have been involved in advocacy actions, the whole point it to make the case on a personal level. The WH heard and they offered a meeting. Usually, disaffected individuals work very hard for that opportunity. To turn it down and boast about it later is arrogant.

Looks like the tea party has redefined the terms and objective of protests. Now it's just all about tantrums and demands.
I think it would be inconsistent for pres. Obama to resist the ransom bullying by the tea party yet instantly meet the demands of a progressive organization.

I think it's a shame that they turned it down.

[madfloridian]

25. Teachers also turned down a meeting.

It was to be held where Arne said, they said you come to us. He said no, the teachers said no.

I am retired, but I see the horrors my fellow teachers are facing.

I think the time for talking may be over.

[loyalsister]

31. Do they believe something will happen without talking?

I do not get the point if there is no effort to have a discussion. Especially when there is no specific legislation that they are lobbying on. The smart thing to do would be to propose legislation, gather sponsors and supporters, get a meeting and make the case. I have participated in this process. It can be very effective. The anniversary of the amendment that
These people have no clue about what they are doing.
They should take lessons from the League of Women Voters
http://www.lwv.org//AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

The organization that won a battle for a constitutional amendment that gave women the right to vote.
Make a proposal gather sponsors and supporters then make the big push.

[madfloridian]

32. Teachers have TRIED to get Arne's ear for over 2 years.

He has ignored them, and insulted their unions. He has set an atmosphere in which teachers can be freely insulted, and he never defends them. Neither does his boss.

[loyalsister]

33. I still don't understand the strategy

Historically it is possible to make some progress when the parties meet and have reasonable discussions. ADAPT made gains in disability rights under each Bush via classic advocacy strategies (ADA and ADA amendment).

Apparently the fact that the republicans ask how high when the tea party says jump people think that government should always respond that way.

Why do they think they are above proposing and advocating for legislation that would accomplish their goals? Do they believe- without evidence- that Obama would not sign a bill they favored if it passed congress?

I really do not understand what the tangible goal is.

[madfloridian]

36. You seem unaware of all the efforts of teachers to get their cause heard.

Quite frankly, no one in this administration is paying attention. Arne and Obama ONLY go to charter schools and hang around with the billionaires handling the reforms. They are not even aware of the pain being felt by public school teachers.

I really can not help it if you do not understand.

[loyalsister]

40. They had their ear and blew them off

Of course nothing will change.
Why should they give a crap if no one actually takes time to discuss it?
They made the whole thing look like a petty symbolic gesture by ignoring a real opening to talk to Arne.

Nothing will change if no one actually discusses what they want to change with people who have power to work on it.

[madfloridian]

41. Baloney. Obama and Duncan have allowed teachers to be treated with contempt.

They have had every chance to intervene and say let's not do that. They haven't.

They know what is happening, and they choose to ignore it. There is point when talking no longer matters.

[msanthrope]

44. "Treated with contempt?"

Seriously, is THAT what this march was about? Hurt feelings?

[StarsInHerHair]

50. no, it's about abolishing Public Education & restarting Child Labour

or did you fall for those fake vouchers, for which there is no real money? Banksters took it all

[msanthrope]

43. I read their goals--fairly nebulous, and without any specific legislative

point or goal.

It's difficult to meet with government officials when you have no specific goals. Further, as for meeting with Arne Duncan, well, he'd be the first one to agree with the marchers that NCLB needs fixing. Try getting the Congress to do that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

114. Dude - NCLB no longer exists. The program now is ALL Duncan's and Obama's

'Race To The Top' which bypasses educators' unions, closes schools which the very conditions of RTTT guarantee to fail, so that union teachers and administrators can be replaced by unqualified newbies hired by 'for profit' educational corporations. It is Duncan's pet project, modeled on what he did to Chicago - why would he EVER say it needs 'fixing'? It is accomplishing EXACTLY what it is meant to do.

[jeff47]

49. No, they didn't have any ears.

There's been plenty of meetings in the past. The result is a press release from the administration talking about how they listened to teacher's concerns...and then the administration goes ahead with what it wanted in the first place.

[loyalsister]

51. Expectations?

What are the goals? What would be considered success at this point?

[RaleighNCDUer]

116. For who? The administration, or the educators? They have diametrically opposed goals.

The educators want to get back to teaching, not wasting their time and the kids' time with testing - the only result of which is to get teachers fired while trying to reach totally unealistic goals.

The administration wants to end public education, and replace it with charters, so that a very few people can make a lot of money - and there is no more interest in the welfare of the kids than there is for cattle at a slaughterhouse; they get fed in one end, and spit out the other, and all that is important is the bottom line.

We've had educators unions for many many decades, and somehow we've cranked out the most educated citizenry in the world - until about 3 decades ago when the 'reformers' started demanding 'accountability'. Funny how increased 'teacher accountabililty' has culminated in ever lower levels of educational accomplishment and higher dropout rates.

Teachers are STILL taught how to teach - but when they get into the schools they are prevented from applying that learning. They are told that their objective is to get the highest marks possible on standardized tests - NOT to educate the kids.

Do you think a highly rated school should be graduating students who can't read a want ad? But boy can those kids score on filling in bubbles with a #2 pencil!

What do YOU think the goal of a school should be?

[Divernan]

169. Obama's goal? Privatize schools and collect fat campaign $$ from privatizers.

Which is why Obama will not reverse course & there is no point in talking with him or his stooge, Arne. He'd have to give millions back, and that will never happen.

And of course, Obama went to private schools as do his daughters, and as do the children of Obama's social and professional circle.

Evidently photo ops of the Obama family benevolently handing out food at a food bank or swooping down on a local ice cream shoppe with the Secret Service do not give them a true understanding of what the real world is like for the majority of Americans.

[MessiahRp]

86. This is it in a nutshell. Why should Damon meet with Duncan? So the Administration can twist his arm

or dress him down to get him to back off? It's not like they listen to the left and they won't listen to Damon. They want to bully him into shutting up and then pretend like they had a productive discussion where they listened to his concerns.

Rp

[loyalsister]

96. They want, they will

rather than they actually did with documentation. Assumptions are not evidence.

[MessiahRp]

113. Of course they didn't. Damon didn't give them the chance.

nt

[loyalsister]

122. Exactly

Now there is only speculation on what might have happened if they had taken advantage of that offer.

[sudopod]

54. Does the President of the United States need someone to tell him to do the obvious, right thing?

Does he personally have to take a tally of all his constituencies before he can voice the opinion that, no, we shouldn't destroy teaching as a profession?

[loyalsister]

57. The "obvious right thing"

to some people would be abolishing public education and homeschooling all children. There is no "obvious" right thing, because there are thousands of definitions of the right thing. There are millions of opinions and stakeholders in this discussion. It's tempting to believe that there are easy answers, but that's not the reality.

[madfloridian]

58. Indeed it IS a reality that some things are right and some are wrong.

You are living in the bipartisan, post-partisan world that the we have been dragged into by the false centrists...kicking and screaming.

But in reality there really is wrong and right and shades of grey. There really is.

The death of public education will be the death of our nation as we know it today.

[sudopod]

60. + a brazillion nt

[loyalsister]

71. Of course there are simple black and white questions

But there are too many stakeholders and too many facets and possible solutions for this to be black and white.

[Divernan]

170. The same could be said about mindlessly supporting Obama.

[sudopod]

59. "There is no "obvious" right thing"

If you really believe that about NCLB and what it is doing to our schools, then I don't see how we can possibly hope to have a conversation.

(Edited to be less angry.)

[loyalsister]

68. I was not talking about my personal beliefs

I was referring to the fact that there are people who disagree with me who have a voice and deserve to be heard. I have spent a lot of time in these kinds of talks and they go nowhere until people acknowledge validity of opinions they disagree with.
I had the good fortune to grow up in a suburb with very good schools. My perspective comes from one of tremendous privilege. I try to acknowledge that and respect opinions I disagree with.
I have personal preferences that are more in line with the positions taken by the SOS org.
At the same time, I believe that with such a massive array of stakeholders, there are likely to be a range of possibilities that lie between any absolutes proposed.

[madfloridian]

74. "until people acknowledge validity of opinions they disagree with"

Not all opinions have the validity that comes with being true.

I taught at a poor school, I also taught at one like the wealthy suburb you say you came from....the children are the same.

The children have the same abilities and dreams, it is their circumstances that differ.

Poverty is one of the biggest problems in education...so this administration is taking money from poor districts who fail and giving it to rich districts who have schools with a managed student body. Charter schools can dismiss students for most any reason...and they do.

Just because someone has an opinion does not make it valid.

[sudopod]

77. This! nt

[loyalsister]

95. I am well aware of the difference in circumstances

as are my friends who believe they and\or their kids would benefit from having opportunities to attend charter schools. They have opinions that I think are relevant to the conversation. Here in MO, the black caucus was open to the idea of vouchers. Some democrats wrote them off as "naive" as if they were not even adults.
If the voices of people who live the experience and respond to those kinds of ideas are valued, maybe it's possible to find solutions that will have positive results. Is it possible that there is something between these ideas that could work? We don't know because people are not willing to hash it out and explore more details and ideas.

[madfloridian]

105. Vouchers and charters will dismantle public education

Vouchers will do it more quickly.

Since I believe our nation needs public education, then I do not agree the others are valid opinions.

Jeb Bush started his ed reform stuff in Florida by rallying the African American community, telling them they were not getting an equal education. The reformers are doing that all over the country. They are manipulating minorities to get resegregation through charters and vouchers.

They have, I fear, done a damn good job.

[libmom74]

118. +1 million

[sudopod]

75. How is being against destroying the teaching profession a bad thing in any way?

Should we consider forcing kids to learn only how to take idiotic fill-in-the-bubble tests? Is there some world where it is reasonable to discuss taking money away from public schools and building privately-managed charters? Should we just wink as they move the high performers only to the new schools, and then claim victory over those nasty teachers unions when the charters get higher scores on said tests? Not all opinions are valid.

The only stakeholders that matter are the children, and there is nothing in that agenda that serves them. It does make lots of money for charter school management companies, though. What possible middle ground is there?

[loyalsister]

92. Parents are stakeholders

I believe that they represent the students more so than teachers. I have more than one friend who has told me that they would have appreciated an opportunity to attend a charter school. I think their experience qualifies them as stakeholders with relevant voices- as much as Matt Damon's. It's not my favorite idea, but I respect their POV.

I am not convinced that anyone has suggested that the teaching profession be destroyed. At the same time, I don't dispute the validity of the reasons behind the SOS action. I just think that there is more to consider and it requires more detailed discussions. Some voices were rejected by the people who claim to represent stakeholders.

[madfloridian]

108. What the heck do you think will happen when public money keeps going to ..

private and charter schools? And taken away from public schools? What do you think will happen? How will public schools survive.

And neither private nor charters are required to keep all children, they can send them back to public schools.

So explain to me how defunding schools will make them strong?????

[loyalsister]

120. I am not taking that position

I am saying that I am familiar with people who do and I respect their opinions and reasoning.

[Divernan]

173. Then tell us their "reasoning" which you claim to respect.

How can you possibly say that you respect someone's "opinions and reasoning" if you are incapable of repeating said opinions and reasoning? Of course you won't answer that question requesting substantive facts, will you? It seems to be one of the rules of Circle D Fight Club - NO SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION OR DEBATE! ! !

Are these friends of yours at all cognizant of the reality of funding of public schools and what happens when the better students are cherry picked out and go to charters,taking a chunk of public funding with them?

Or are they people who are brainwashed by right wing radio: charter schools, good; public schools, bad?

Are are they religious fundamentalists who want to have the state pay for religious training?

WHY exactly do they believe charter schools are the answer, rather than improving public schools?

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

143. "...more than one friend who has told me that they would have appreciated an opportunity

to attend a charter school"

Translate that to "...more than one friend who has told me that they would have appreciated an opportunity to attend a BETTER school."

THAT is what people want - 'charter' means nothing, as it is merely an administrative process. There are really crappy public schools, and there are really crappy charter schools. What people want are BETTER schools, and the so-called 'reformers' have been flogging for-profit charter schools as being 'better' for some 30 years. I remember when I was in school, these many decades ago, it was 'parochial' schools that were 'better'. Middle-class Protestants and Jews would send their kids to Catholic schools because they had a reputation as 'better' than the public schools.

The truth is, all that was 'better' was their ability to control their PR.

So, if what people want are better schools, how do we get them? By penalizing the schools in the most poverty ridden districts by removing their funding and firing their teachers, and lavishing more money on middle-class white schools. That is precisely what NCBL and RTTT do - they take an uneven playing field and plow up one end of it and sow it with salt. Funny thing about that is, that does NOTHING to improve the schools on either end - the 'better' look increasingly better simply in comparison to those that were MADE worse.

If you like charters so much, please, explain in detail what makes a charter school better? How does it get better teachers? How does it produce better students?

[madfloridian]

69. A real opportunity to talk to Arne?

The teachers have been talking and begging and pleading since Arne came to the post in 2009. They have been treated pathetically.

Arne has had every chance to talk to them, why wait until they come for a rally? Why use them as a PR example, saying they had a great talk when all they had was tea and cookies or milk and cookies, whatever.

[loyalsister]

99. Usually that is the point of the rally

Over and over again that has been used as the impetus to get the meeting. As a matter of fact, major legislation and even constitutional amendments have been passed that way.

Advocacy only works when people on both sides listen to each other. To do it and reject the meeting just makes it look like there is no actual goal.
Perpetuating assumptions about what they thought or what they would have done does nothing to advance the SOS cause.

[madfloridian]

106. Again, Baloney.

Teachers have not been given the courtesy of having a "side" in this confrontation. They have been talked down to and treated badly for two years.

These may be Bush's policies, but he at least did not attack teachers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

117. Duncan is not interested in listening. He's there to tell them how it's going to be.

He virtulally destroyed Chicago public schools, and now he's out to repeat his success nationwide. He has his agenda, and nothing else.

He offers meetings only as a way to keep the opposition quiet, while working to undermine them.

The point of the rally is not to get a meeting - it is to let the elite few up on the mountaintop know that the proles are still here, and we outnumber them. And we VOTE.

[loyalsister]

121. Assigning motives and making assumptions

does not move any cause forward. Dealing with real facts, and having real discussions that are inclusive does. They offered an inclusive sit down and it was rejected. Thus, there are no facts about it to discuss. This does nothing but cause a stalemate.

[jeff47]

130. So, you think the civil rights protesters would have been happy just to get a meeting with racists?

They're still segregated, the same problems still exist, lynchings still happen, but they got to talk to the white racists!

A meeting only works when one party doesn't actually know the concerns of the other party, and genuinely wants to help them. That wasn't the case in the south during the civil rights era, and it isn't the case today with teachers and this administration.

[chervilant]

84. Really?

Where have you been? We veteran teachers have been excluded from Arne's planning meetings. We were not consulted about RTTT or any of the other policies implemented by this administration. We have been vilified as greedy, lazy, overpaid individuals, with NO regard for our precious students.

Now, we're supposed to believe that Arne wanted an audience with Matt Damon to solicit *his* input regarding this administration's continued assault on public education?

Obama's appointment of Arne Duncan put a huge question mark in my mind about his integrity. However, it was his casual dismissal of teachers as 'resistant to change' that provided an accurate, if disheartening, picture of his attitude toward a profession that is VENERATED in nations that excel at educating their citizenry.

As a chronically unemployed teacher, I don't need Obama's paternalistic condescension, I need a JOB!

A growing number of US citizens are appalled by Mr. Obama's lackluster performance and serious missteps. You can denigrate our concerns until the cows come home, but you won't change the fact that our concerns have merit.

(Beware ye idols, with their feet of clay...)

[Bluenorthwest]

207. What bullshit that is. Duncan is not the President and Damon

is not a negotiator for teachers. Duncan was just trying to exploit Damon, to use him. Damon was there to advocate for teachers, thus, Duncan should have responded by meeting with TEACHERS. Duncan comes to Damon? Why? Because he's a celebrity, because he is trusted by people.
When a person is famous, that person learns how to avoid co-opting, exploitative leeches who wish to use, use, use. Damon holds no authority to meet with the administration on the behalf of others, there are those who do have that authority, and Duncan runs from them like the house is on fire.
Additionally, I checked and Damon was on a pressing clock, having gone out of his way to be there when his actual job and work were going on hundreds of miles away. Thousands? Far away. Take a plane far. Charter a plane at great expense far. Damon has responsibilities in his own job which he does not take lightly. He did not come there to be a gadfly. And Duncan has many more suitable people who have been long eager to meet with him, and he should do so.
To use the term that is used about such people as Duncan, Arne was just being a starfucker. No one likes a starfucker. Especially stars who do not wish to be fucked.

[loyalsister]

212. Damon himself was using his celebrity

Many famous people do so to promote causes they believe in. Ever hear of recruiting candidates who benefit from having name recognition?
He was trying to take on a leadership role, himself. No one went after him to be an advocate to argue with.
The voices missing are parents and students. He marketed himself as a representative of the experience of going to public school who could also represent a parent who was also a teacher.

rejecting the meeting makes him look like he just wanted the spotlight. He could have said okay... but I want to bring a teacher with me.

[jeff47]

35. No, protests and advocacy are about changing a system.

Meetings are useless if nothing changes after the meeting.

[loyalsister]

38. How do they know there would not have been steps taken

to address the changes they are looking for? They don't.

[jeff47]

48. By past meetings they have had.

This isn't the first opportunity people have had to meet and discuss their objections to the administration's education policies.

[loyalsister]

56. If that is the assumption, why the protest?

Do they think something will happen simply because they refuse to meet with the administration?

[sudopod]

61. To educate the public? I guess the only people who count are the ones on top, eh? nt

[loyalsister]

107. Educating the public with sound bites and speeches?

I don't see it. I have been involved with advocacy for many years and I have learned how people make real change from the bottom up. Details of civil rights movement actions were orchestrated right down to how the activists dressed in order to get the public on the side of the activists.
The education of potential allies is local.

[sudopod]

109. You can make that judgement of the activists' work based on one article?

Or are you following the issue more closely than that?

[loyalsister]

119. I have addressed

the rejection of the meeting. Very much a matter of public record of what happened.

[uponit7771]

136. Bull, most of the puplic aren't lookign at these protest

[jeff47]

129. The problem here is you still think the goal of protests is to get a meeting

The goal of protests is to draw attention to the bad parts of the policy. To try and rally the public to their side, so that the public can provide pressure to get the policy changed.

[uponit7771]

137. Draw attention to bad policy and take steps AGAINST changing them? Thats bitching not activism

[jeff47]

193. What steps were taken against changing them?

Or are you pretending that they haven't already had a lot of meetings with the administration?

[loyalsister]

150. Okay.....

So there is no hope of anything constructive coming from protests other than getting on the news? ho hum... it goes away as soon as the hurricane or earthquake hits. No one cares unless they are personally invested. I have participated heavily in advocacy. Protest actions are always about pressuring the politicians into meeting and finding some common ground.

The problem here is they are amateurs when it comes to advocacy. When effective, the result is having a discussion where both parties try to find some agreement. If there is no goal or defined positive outcome, then it is a waste of time. Policy makers know that as soon as the cameras are gone, as far as the general public is concerned, they're off the hook.

They had an opportunity to actually make some progress and threw it away.

[Divernan]

174. No, it was Obama who had an opportunity to make progress, and threw it away.

[jeff47]

192. So the civil rights protesters were dumb?

They should have been trying to get a meeting with the white racists. According to you, that would have done much more to stop the lynchings, segregation and other abuses.

So many opportunities thrown away by trying to bring a national spotlight to their plight. Think of all the meetings they could have had!

If only those Egyptians had tried to meet with Mubarak. They could have simply asked him to step down and of course he'd pack his bags that day!

[loyalsister]

195. According to the facts of history

civil rights leaders and women's rights leaders, and disability rights leaders ALL met with government officials and got them to sponsor the legislation that led to major changes.

[jeff47]

200. Are you seriously arguing those meetings brought about civil rights?

And not the large protests that got the public behind civil rights?

The meetings didn't happen until the public pressure forced the issue.

[loyalsister]

211. Are you seriously arguing that

1. This is a civil rights issue?
2. My point - that during the civil rights movement, meetings were held as a result of public pressure? And they were rejected by SOS.

3. That civil rights legislation would have been enacted if the leaders of both parties didn't talk to each other?
--- maybe maybe not. What we know for certain is that it DID happen after the civil rights leaders and government officials did meet.

And, we also know that strategy was just rejected.

My point was that this strategy is naive because they are not operating with a game plan that has led to real legislative victories in the past.

[jeff47]

213. I'm suggesting that your belief that the only goal of protests is to schedule a meeting is wrong.

That's the answer to #1.

#2 - Meetings have already been held. Why do you keep pretending this was their only chance to meet with the administration? The administration blew the teachers off in their previous meetings, because public pressure has not built up yet. That was kind of the entire )*&@ing point of the SOS rally - to try and start building public pressure.

#3 - Meetings didn't get the bill passed. Public pressure got them passed. Specifically, the Civil Rights Act was tied up in committee in the house by southern Democrats until public pressure forced the issue.

The Civil Rights Act did not pass because the leaders of both parties had a meeting. It passed due to a lot of political maneuvering within the Democratic party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964


The point of protests is to try and mobilize the public behind your cause, in order to change the status quo. Meetings are absolutely useless until public pressure has built up. Jumping ahead to the meeting gets you nothing, as teachers discovered during all their previous meetings.

[loyalsister]

216. What legislation is on the table now?

Where are the explicit tangible goals SOS is seeking?

Yes, during the civil rights movement, there was a piece of legislation that resulted from the meetings.

As you pointed out....
Public pressure
Negotiations with government officials and proposed detailed plans and\or legislation for people to evaluate. Gathering supporters. Getting the general public, especially people who are not personally invested on board.
More public pressure and behind the scenes lobbying to get the necessary votes.

What specifically is the public supposed to be calling their congress members about right now? That is, in addition to their own issues.

[nashville_brook]

88. Duncan wanted this meeting not to hear Damon, but to twist his arm

Damon's smart to focus his energy on empowering the powerless, instead of arranging a "gentleman's agreement" with elites behind closed doors.

[teacher gal]

115. Well said. I agree. nt

[uponit7771]

138. Link and quote? Come on people, we just can't make shit up and pass it off as truth too

[nashville_brook]

152. you don't need a citation for anything as obvious as the sky being blue

[RaleighNCDUer]

112. Duncan has spent YEARS talking to educators who have YEARS

of experience in classrooms and in administration of schools, yet he has not changed his course one iota - what makes you think an actor getting a audience with the High Priest of Education Reform would have any effect?

The only reason Duncan wanted a meet was to shut him up - Damon has a huge public voice, which your typical education union rep, school principle or teacher of the year does NOT have. It was nothing less than intimidation. You know: "If you don't support the President, PERRY may get elected! (booga booga booga)"

Damon was absolutely right to brush him off.

[bread_and_roses]

131. the point of a protest is pressure for change

If a decision maker has refused to meet with people, maybe the point of a particular action is to get a meeting - but the larger objective would still be to enact change.

One always analyzes an action in terms of the objective - if a meeting is pointless, it is not part of the strategy.

And what possible point could there be in a meeting with Duncan, who knows perfectly well - as does Obama - that his actions serve corporations, not teachers or students? Duncan, who has the full backing of Obama in his assault on teachers and education? Duncan, who knows perfectly well - as does Obama - that his policies are directed at reducing educators to automatons and students to regimented little widgets and low-wage neo-serfs in a neo-feudal society?

What possible point to meeting with Duncan, who would expect the "favor" of a meeting to be reciprocated by moderated criticism of his and Obama's policies - would expect something like, "I've met with Duncan and he's willing to listen to your concerns." Blech. Right.

Good for Matt Damon. And piss on Duncan.

[loyalsister]

214. What "change"?

Institutional\ policy change? The kind that requires legislation or technical details in written policy?

How does that happen without discussion? Without sponsored legislation?

Sudden enlightenment with details based on mind reading?

Why are they not seeking sponsors and support for policies that reflect their position?

Real change has happened with that strategy.

19th Amendment
Temperance laws and their eventual repeal
Civil rights act of 1964
Voting rights act 1965
Americans with Disabilities Act

and on and on

Today, people with no sense of history seem to believe that getting on TV will make something happen. Maybe because it kept the public option out of HCR? Or because loud tea partiers who got a lot of coverage got elected? Neither has resulted in actual "change." The result has been a less than perfect law that can and hopefully will be modified for the better. Thus, ongoing change.

Notice anything? Loud anti- advocacy to get on TV has had negative results.

Affirmative advocacy intended to accomplish something works best when it is conducted with dignified negotiation.

waa waa waa The time for negotiation is passed. If so, count on zero results.

[bread_and_roses]

218. like that hasn't already happened? we're not talking about starting from 0 here

Everything you mention has already happened. Our Pres and his Corp Shill Duncan have made their positions known and have shown no inclination toward listening to other voices. There's a time for lobbying and discussion and then there's a time to exert other forms of pressure.

And the three of the examples you mention that I am most familiar with - 19th Amendment, Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act - did not come to pass until there had been MAJOR civil disobedience and in the streets actions.

[loyalsister]

219. The full trajectories of the examples I pointed to are very long

"Our Pres and his Corp Shill Duncan have made their positions known and have shown no inclination toward listening to other voices." And yet they just offered a meeting. There is no way of truly knowing what would have happened. There is no sensible reason to be there if they have already made defeatist assumptions.

The 19th amendment very specifically called for an amendment allowed women to vote. They had numerous sponsors and public supporters that they gathered over time.
The civil rights act of 1964 specifically called for integration and elimination of institutional discrimination. The ideas were first presented many years prior. As a matter of fact, the transportation system of NY was desegregated as a result of a lawsuit in 1855.
The 1968 voting rights act called for the elimination of barriers to voting.
The ADA specifically called for removal of architectural, information barriers, to allow people with disabilities to participate in ordinary life activities. It was first proposed in the early 70s.

They just blew the opportunity to have a sit-down to develop the tangible plan or legislation like those listed above.
That is, the meeting that they used to develop the legislation and amendment that eventually passed.
It took a very long time before they got those meetings.
Although, the ADA was more of a behind the scenes operation. It started by building on previous legislation and policies. The leadership in that movement sat on a national committee and did a lot of work behind the scenes. Justin Dart was a republican appointed by Reagan as he had been a long time family friend.
It is not clear to me what specific changes have been called for. Is there a specific plan or ideas that could translate into legislation?

[bread_and_roses]

221. You seem far too intelligent not to know what

Matt Damon, Arne Duncan, President Obama, and anyone else the slightest bit familiar with the issues in education all know:

1. there are already sponsors and support for policies that reflect their (teachers', "our side's" positions in education reform) - Obama has chosen to ignore them - Starting with his appointment of Duncan
2. we are not, as I already said, starting from 0 here - the meetings have been held, the "sponsors and support" have been heard from for years, and Obama and Duncan have clearly made their choice
3. the invitation to meet was proffered in the expectation of disarming Damon. Particularly obvious in light of your question since Damon is a high-profile advocate, not a policy wonk, not a "crafter" of legislation, and both Duncan and Obama are well-aware of those who are
4. If: "It is not clear to me what specific changes have been called for. Is there a specific plan or ideas that could translate into legislation?" is a serious question, then you can hardly know much about the issues.

[loyalsister]

222. Exactly my point

"If: "It is not clear to me what specific changes have been called for. Is there a specific plan or ideas that could translate into legislation?" is a serious question, then you can hardly know much about the issues."

I don't think I am alone in not having the point by point plan and or proposed legislation. That is the root of my criticism. The goals are not clear and rejecting an opportunity to negotiate and define\refine them into what is truly possible doesn't clarify anything for me.

I have heard nothing but broad statements and general positions. "We need to support teachers" has little meaning to a person who is inclined to want to know details.

This strategy has not been informative. I am not arguing against anything specific related to policy. My criticism is of the methods, assignment of motives and assumptions, and vague assertions.

I am very focused on local politics and I know a great deal about disability advocacy and how the ADA legislation was crafted. Business leaders played a big role in the negotiations. It was a weak law and there have been problems that required some additional legislation.
The important thing for me is that there has been some progress and additional legislation has been passed to fix the problems. It has been hard work and it will probably never end. Currently, we are having to work with businesses, and city government to resolve an ADA issue. Change and real progress are not easy.

[bread_and_roses]

224. No, it is not "exactly [your] point"

It is, in fact, exactly the opposite of your one point, which has already been refuted several hundred times in this thread. At the most generous interpretation I can put on it (which I am trying to do because you claim to have been an advocate for ADA), you believe there is only one legitimate strategy to propel change, you believe one must always acknowledge that the opposing party has legitimate views and is an honest broker, you believe that a mediation model suits all disputes, and - here's where my good-will breaks down - that Matt Damon should not only have met with Arne Duncan but have come prepared with model legislation as if Duncan were a Frosh City Councilor who'd never given two thoughts to the issue before - which is ludicrous.

Better wo/men than I have repeatedly demolished your assumptions in this thread alone, not to mention the libraries of information easily available to you. If you genuinely believe any of that, there's no point to this. And unlike you evidently do, I do not always believe that my opponents are either honest or sincere, nor that they merely need my - or someone's - "expertise" to see the light, nor that just a little more negotiation from the perspective that "you give a little/I give a little" will bring progress. Ever hear of a strike?

So keep singing your one note - I'm moving on.

[loyalsister]

225. There are a lot of ways to TRY

They are not all effective. I pointed to examples of what has worked. Keep making your assumptions and lofty demands.
It comes across as a romanticized civil disobedience without goals and is definitely misrepresenting the process that has been successful. I have seen this particular process in action and it failed miserably. When advocates in MO rejected meetings in favor of ultimatums and pushing the sit- in as far as it would go.

The results of what they actually did were very very ugly. People who I knew personally actually died. The results of what they may have happened if they actually had the conversation will not be known.

Keep dreaming the romantic dream and good luck. I would love to be wrong here.

[LWolf]

148. Duncan's objective was to silence dissent.

To keep it out of the public eye.

Which is, obviously, exactly the opposite of those who planned and attended the event.

[theaocp]

27. Kudos to Matt Damon.

As Barney Frank said, talking to Arne Duncan would be like trying to have a conversation with a table leg. The fact that he's still employed demonstrates that Obama either likes what Duncan is doing (shudder) or doesn't understand what Duncan is doing, but trusts him anyway (shudder). Complicit or ignorant; take your pick. :puke:

[JDPriestly]

28. Thanks, Matt for not being intimidated.

Arne is in the wrong and he knows it.

I'd like to know what was said to the civil rights groups that caused a few of them to back off the criticism.

Promises? Threats? Pulling rank?

I'd like to know.

[WinkyDink]

30. Matt Damon does not suffer fools gladly.

[PufPuf23]

34. I have more respect for Damon than either POTUS Obama or Duncan.

If there had been a meeting, the MSM would have spun the event to support the anti-education moves to degrade public education and selectively privatize for special interests.

[progressoid]

39. "We often reach out to people who care deeply about education reform."

Reach out so they can get "people who care" to shut up and get on board the privatized education train.

Kudos to Matt.

[madfloridian]

42. Teachers: "We didn't come all the way to Washington to have tea and cookies.."

at the White House.

http://michaelklonsky.blogspot.com/2011/07/sorry-mr-president-we-didnt-come-all.html

"Calling out Education Secretary Arne Duncan by name, Kozol lambasted current administration policies, especially the test-crazy No Child Left Behind and Duncan's Race To The Top. NCLB can't be "fixed" said Kozol, but should be abolished. Kozol said that racial segregation in the schools was worse now than at any time since the assassination of Dr. King in 1968.

"The politicians you've got to struggle with the most are the ones who act like your friends," said Kozol. They will pull you aside and tell you quietly that they support you and that they're working inside the administration to change things, but that they can't say so openly.

Kozol's warning was timely. The day before, when a small group of teachers went over to the Department of Ed to protest cuts in arts programs, staffers invited them in for a chat. They had a brief audience with Duncan, after which the DOE's Justin Hamilton issued a statement to the media saying they had a "useful" discussion with SOS marchers. Many people at the conference told me that they felt used and manipulated by the DOE statement. And when a similar invitation was issued yesterday by the White House, SOS leaders politely declined,, offering to meet only after thousands of teachers voiced their demands and their anger with the administration at Saturday's march."

"We didn't come all the way to Washington to have tea and cookies at the White House," a teacher from the west coast told me."

[senseandsensibility]

46. Good for Damon!

I appreciate his support.

[sudopod]

52. I love the reference to "serious people."

The best ^_^

[DirkGently]

62. Adjustment Bureau was a decent flick, actually. And Damon's got a real handle on this topic.

[markpkessinger]

66. I'd put more stock in Damon's integrity than in either Duncan's or the President's n/t

[Fearless]

67. Thank you Matt Damon!

[MissDeeds]

72. Matt Damon has more ethics

in a nanosecond than Arne Duncan has in a lifetime.

You go, Matt!

K&R

[truedelphi]

191. + 1. n/t

[DeSwiss]

76. K&R is all I'll say because if I say what I'm thinking this post would be deleted. - n/t

[Chimichurri]

78. Matt Damon is the stuff real men are made of. He gives me hope that my generation has some

humanity left.

[Jefferson23]

79. If that is true about Arnie willing to meet Damon at the airport..that sounds like damage control

efforts and nothing more. Why would Damon want to listen to Duncan's horse shit, because Obama cares what the
guy actually thinks about teachers? Ha!

K&R for teachers.



Hi ya mads, great OP as usual!:hi:

[Reader Rabbit]

81. What did the White House hope to accomplish with such a meeting?

Why were they so determined to meet with him before the rally? What kind of pressure or persuasion were they going to apply?

This paragraph cracks me up:

Asked about the efforts to reach Damon, Education Department spokesman Justin Hamilton said in an email, “We often reach out to people who care deeply about education reform. To dramatically improve the way our children learn and to prepare them for success in college and career, we need as many passionate voices engaged in this effort as possible.”

They often reach out to people who care deeply about education reform. Not education. Reform. That statement is very telling.

And teachers probably care more deeply about education reform than anyone in this friggin' country, yet no one has reached out to them.

Feh.

[slipslidingaway]

90. knr - maybe Damon saw what happened to universal HC advocates who believed the administration ...

and backed down early on during the WH summit.

Do not back down on based on one lousy invitation at the last minute, learn from the past.

:applause:

[chervilant]

91. Once again...

In the past fifty years, our system of public education has been transformed into a corporate tool, intended to 'graduate' factory fodder or service industry drones. Sadly, Mr. Obama seems bent on continuing this initiative.

An honest assessment of public education in this United States mandates that we acknowledge that--for at least the last five decades--we've been trained AWAY from critical thinking skills and toward rote memorization, which means we can perform like trained monkeys on ridiculously expensive and pedantic standardized tests. We must understand that almost half of our adult population is functionally illiterate--able to read these words, mayhap, but incapable of sharing the gist of what's read. And, we must accept that Bernays' propaganda techniques have helped produce a fearful, malleable, gullible, and PITIFUL citizenry. Any ONE of these facts ALONE compels us to rescue our co-opted and crumbling system of public education, but let's consider these key issues:

By the time we members of the vast hoi polloi get our high school diplomas, more than three-quarters of us are convinced that we have 'average or below average' intellects. This is an enormous crock of El Toro Poo Poo! Each and every one of us has a fully functioning, amazing brain. Contemporary research on timed IQ tests reveals that most of us would score 'near genius' on these tests--if the time element of the test is removed. I contend that each of us learns in our OWN way, at our OWN pace. If we were to revamp our system of public education to honor and celebrate this fact, profound things would ensue.

As important as dispelling the myth of predominantly 'average' intellects is addressing the fact that almost half (42%) of all children in the United States live in low-income households, where their parent(s) earn just enough to cover basic expenses (current data from NCCP). Personally, I think this under-represents the number of children who live in households defined as ‘low-income,’ given that less than one thousand people in the US own and control better than 95% of our nation’s wealth. Nevertheless, ‘low-income household’ is synonymous with precarious employment, frequent moves, poor nutrition, and a multitude of other threats to our children’s well-being, not to mention their ability to LEARN.

In short, children of low-income households must contend with a host of social, behavioral and psychological issues, all of which impede a child’s ability to learn. And, for children in poverty level households (about 21%), mere survival trumps education EVERY TIME. These seldom mentioned facts are clearly antithetical to this administration's current assault on teachers and unions, so we teachers/activists are shouted down or diminished whenever we bring up poverty and its measurable impact on our children AND on public education.

Here's another important issue that is seldom mentioned: talk to ANY teacher across the nation, and you'll hear horror stories about the JUNK we're feeding our children. This issue goes FAR beyond the junk food students get in their school cafeterias. We are *ALL* feeding our children fish laced with mercury, fruits and vegetables that contain measurably less natural nutrients, and MASSIVE amounts of sugar--in virtually every processed food they eat.

The percentage of children who struggle with overweight issues has more than doubled since the 70s. Almost a third of our children are overweight! Along with the self-esteem issues of excess weight, high blood pressure, diabetes and elevated cholesterol levels are common challenges for overweight children.

Let's review once more those controversial, mandated standardized tests (key components of NCLB, now RTTT): research repeatedly demonstrates that standardized tests do not correlate with fundamental knowledge of core subjects. Yet, federal funding is tied to standardized assessments, and schools persist in subjecting all students to expensive standardized tests. Do these tests measure academic achievement?

The most current comparative assessment of the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world (the OECD PISA report) ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science, and a below-average 25th for mathematics. The United States is just NINE away from the bottom in math! Clearly, our much vaunted standardized tests are NOT accurate measures of our children's academic skills.

To those of us who are genuinely concerned about rescuing and improving our system of public education, teacher bashing has become just another way to obfuscate the real challenges we face in providing our young people with opportunities to develop their critical thinking skills and prepare to compete in a now disintegrating global economy.

I think the most important first step in education reform is to tell our children the TRUTH, and to facilitate their participation in developing an approach to public education suited for today's socio-political environment.

I find it ironic, yet predictable, that the 'reformers du jour' (led by Arne Duncan, Bill Gates, Michelle Rhee, and their ilk) are pushing another unoriginal reform agenda that fails to engage our children in essential discussions about THEIR futures, and what THEY feel would insure them an exceptional education. Yet again, we're throwing 'reforms' at our children, instead of encouraging our children to participate in a nationwide initiative to move public education into the 21st century.

[Jakes Progress]

103. It took nixon to go to China.

It will take Obama to end public education. He's got a good start on it. If race to the top were a bush plan, the defenders here on DU and the whole of the Democratic party would be up in arms descrying the dismantling of the American Education System. But since it is an inside job, the bobble heads just go along. So much for principle.

[Little Star]

135. Many of these things could only get done by a Democratic Admin.

This country is in for a world of hurt when Dem's adopt Republican policies.

Privatize everything and make sure to deregulate it too! Destroy Unions!

I'm so glad we have a Democratic administration and will for the next four years. Just think of all the republican ideas they can get passed! :sarcasm: :cry:

[sabrina 1]

124. You should make this an OP.

They do not really want to 'educate' children, except for the children of the ruling class who all go to private schools. Your first paragraph is correct, the system is not aimed at an educated population but to provide cheap workers and military recruits for the system.

Because we don't really live in a democracy. There is the ruling class, the new 'Royals' who really do believe they are superior, and then the rest of us. I'm surprised there is still even a pretense of democracy.

The current Education system was invented by Businessmen. Airc, I don't think there were any Professional Educators involved, and the Standardized testing has made millions for Bush's friends who publish these tests. When the Elite get their hands on our Public Funds and tell us they are reforming things, like Education and Healthcare, all their buddies seem to get involved and they devise systems that pour money into their own bank accounts, as happened with NCLB eg.

Between what is happening with Education and Health Care combined this may be the biggest transfer of public funds so far. But neither 'reform' will benefit the people much.

[Jakes Progress]

163. It would preach to the choir and inflame the faithful.

[LiberalFighter]

104. There should be a campaign ad by the teachers union with Damon

[scentopine]

110. Obama is a hope and change crushing agent. Damon, thankfully, chose the red pill. -nt

[democrank]

123. Matt Damon is right

about teachers and about Obama`s disappointing performance.

[disillusioned73]

127. K&R...

we need more celebs like Matt Damon, he gets it.

[Bragi]

132. I love Matt Damon! /nt

[valerief]

134. Good for Damon! nt

[uponit7771]

140. THAT MOVE BY DAMON WAS STUPID! Not acting but keep hollerin=bitchin, same thing far left bashers do

[madrchsod]

145. far left bashers? do you mean.....union members ?

maybe teachers unions? teachers unions that must sacrifice while everyone else gets their cut.

i`n a proud retired union thug and my wife is a proud public sector union thug.

we`ll keep bitch`n until we get to share in the wealth in this country.

[madfloridian]

149. Lots of name-calling there. Not good to talk to teachers that way.

And to those who try to stand up for them.

[madrchsod]

144. i love reading talking points in the morning.....

makes the day so bright and cheerful!

[Pooka Fey]

146. Is it just me, or is it really bad form for the President of the United States

to publicly bag on an actor's performance in a film in response to that actor's public statements regarding educational and union policy?

Go ahead, President Obama, and debate or discuss the issues Matt Damon raises, but don't use the office of the Presidency to offer film criticism. It's not your area of expertise.

[Missy Vixen]

226. I think it's comical that President Obama evidently does not see the irony

Matt Damon will still be working and successful as a film actor long after there's someone else in the White House. Making an example of him was not a smart move on the President's part, especially when Damon has solid, real-life experience with public education as a student and the son of a teacher.

President Obama was educated in private schools. His kids are going to private schools. He's in an echo chamber. I might also mention that Arne Duncan's efforts at a tete-a-tete with Damon were most likely orchestrated from the top.

[dorksied]

151. Matt Damon is establishing himself as a possible future president

and I bet he doesn't even realize it. His stance on protecting the less fortunate than he is admirable, and he has strength, character and real presence. I think that we'll see him enter the political arena for real some time, and if he does, I'll be voting for him.

[Safetykitten]

153. I think I was wrong about Damon being a President. Anyone that would refuse to meet Duncan has

brains in my book. The fact that he would not play spin the issue with this power tool of Obama is quite refreshing!

[frazzled]

161. Anyone who refuses a meeting is at once weak and despotic

Only the truly brave are unafraid to have a discussion with those with whom they disagree. Only the intransigent refuse to listen.

Hardly the marks of a leader.

[Divernan]

168. So Obama was afraid & intransigent when he blew off Harry Belafonte? You're right about that!

[LWolf]

208. When the intent of the meeting is to silence dissent, the smart decline.

I’ve said before that it is fair to wonder if the sudden interest was akin to the administration’s efforts last summer to blunt criticism of Obama policies when a coalition of civil rights groups released a framework for education reform. In the few days before the framework was released, administration officials met with some of the coalition leaders, and a few of them backed off their criticism.

If the point of the event is to call PUBLIC attention to bad policy, to work for change, then meeting behind closed doors to keep that dissent out of the public view doesn't exactly do anything to further the goal, does it?

It's not like Obama and Duncan haven't heard from teachers around the nation; they know quite well that teachers are unhappy with them, and they know exactly why. They don't intend to change their policies.

[RetroLounge]

157. I'm with Damon all the way

he's pissed off the cheerleaders here, so he's obviously on to something.

:applause:

RL

[NICO9000]

158. Matt could show Obama and Duncan what a REAL progressive looks like!

Right on, Mr. D!

[Jakes Progress]

164. They know. It's just that they aren't progressives.

They don't even like progressives. Think reagan democrat.

[colsohlibgal]

162. Awesome!

I love Matt Damon, he can be a powerful influence for change. Loved him using his clout to get 'Inside Job" made.

We have to move, if Obama won't it's up to us.

[The Wielding Truth]

166. White House Correspondents dinner is where you say things to be

funny. It is not to be hurtful or does not even have to be true. Matt should not have been really offended. Unless he said this was his reason for not meeting with Duncan, I would not assume Matt to be that touchy.It seemed to me that the swipe was to show that Barack was not there only for the right wings attacked "Hollywood crowd". That in a playful manner he could also attack those who, he considers friends,are not happy with his work.
Just how I see it.

[defendandprotect]

177. Smart of Matt Damon -- !!! What a sleaze Arne Duncan is -- !!

We need two strong anti-war challengers to Obama in 2012 --

Two candidates who also strongly support universal health care --

Those two issues getting resolved could put us back on our feet --


Then on to the environment and Global Warming!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

184. I liked adjusment bureau.

Emily Blunt just sizzles with anyone she's on screen.

[Daphne08]

185. I don't blame him.

Matt Damon's mother (who was a teacher) knows more about the education of our youth than that idiot Arne Duncan does.

I was a teacher for 18 years. All the new testing crap along with tons of useless, ridiculous paperwork (and the Bush "war on teachers" administration) drove me away.

It was a pleasure for many, many years to teach young people, but I'll never go back.

I don't need to go back because I'm just too burned out, and I have the good sense to realize that a burned out teacher is no good for the classroom.

Anyway, the point is Matt Damon was right!

[blkmusclmachine]

186. "Race to the Top:"

Fits hand-in-glove with the Dominionist's 7 Mountains: subverting public education. "no child LEFT BEHIND" was too obvious..

[Aerows]

194. Arne Duncan

Has to be one of the worst picks possible. The man's an idiot that has never taught a class in his life. He should consult with my sister who has a Master's degree in education and has taught at a low-income school for nearly 20 years.

[swilton]

197. The Adjustment Bureau - I'll have to see it

[William769]

202. Matt Damon defends teachers against a [expletive] cameraman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHJkvEwyhk

[Major Hogwash]

204. Matt Damon's dead to me now.

That's it! No more Matt Damon movies in my house! No more Matt Damon tee shirts! No more Matt Damon toothpaste! Nothing Damon from now on!!

[tropicanarose]

209. This is truly pathetic. Arne Duncan chasing down an actor? Why bother?

Sure I know that Matt Damon has made some public statements that have been applauded by us, but
honestly, he is just an actor. I don't doubt that he was seeking some publicity too with his stance.
I don't give a hoot what Matt Damon says or does.........Arne Duncan shouldn't either. PATHETIC

[madfloridian]

210. I have more respect for Damon than I do for Arne Duncan.

His attitude toward public school teachers has damaged us greatly. He set up an atmosphere in which teachers are the enemy.

No wonder Matt Damon is pissed, his mother is a teacher.

[Missy Vixen]

227. Duncan and President Obama care what Damon says because he's influential

Damon grew up in a middle-class household, and managed to write an Academy Award winning screenplay with a friend. The fact that President Obama (and his errand person, Mr. Duncan,) were so concerned about speaking to Damon shows me they are the ones who are scared.

[Rex]

215. Arnie was afraid his 'bread and circus' agenda wouldn't

be represented this year. He needs a few more years to destroy public education.

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

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