Obama’s newest jobs plan for the unemployed: Go work for free!

[Better Believe It]

How Not to Solve the Jobs Problem
By Robert Kuttner
August 30, 2011

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that President Obama is planning to include in his eagerly anticipated post-Labor Day jobs speech a variation on a truly lame state program called Georgia Works. The program, begun in 2003, pays people on unemployment insurance a small additional stipend, currently $240, if they agree to work 24 hours a week, for no wages, for a private employer while unemployed, in exchange for some form of training by the employer.

President Obama: “We’ve got to rethink how we do unemployment insurance. There is a smart program in Georgia. What they do is they say, all right, instead of you just getting unemployment insurance, just a check, what we’re going to do is we will give a subsidy to any company that hires you with your unemployment insurance so that you’re essentially earning a salary and getting your foot in the door into that company. And if they hire you full-time, then the unemployment insurance is used to subsidize you getting trained and getting a job.”

But that’s not how the program works at all. Basically, the company gets free labor while the person is receiving unemployment insurance. If the company does hire the person, there is no ongoing wage subsidy or training subsidy.

Obama is fearful that Republicans may block the next extension of unemployment insurance, and this Republican-style embellishment might be part of a bipartisan deal.


Read the full article at:

http://blog.prospect.org/robert_kuttner/2011/08/how-not-to-solve-the-jobs-prob.html


-------------------------------------------

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said he believes there are some areas where his conference can work with Obama on policies to help get people back to work. In a statement, he said he agreed with Obama's suggestion earlier this week that states should get more control over infrastructure projects. Cantor also mentioned reforms to the unemployment system as an area where there might be some compromise.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/179317-expectations-low-for-august-jobs-figures


--------------------------------------------

Feeble President, Feeble Plans
Obama’s jobs plan: Go work for free!
by Robert Kuttner
September 2, 2011

On Wednesday, I posted an item titled “How Not to Solve the Jobs Problem.” The case in point is President Barack Obama’s embrace of a state program called Georgia Works, which tries to turn unemployment insurance into a kind of sing-for-your-supper “workfare” program.

Jobless workers in Georgia drawing unemployment compensation are encouraged to go work for private employers—for free—in exchange for some kind of training. They get a small onetime stipend of $240 as an inducement. The premise is that working for free will help them get a foot in the door and maybe get hired (if the employer hires). According to Georgia’s own statistics, however, only about 15 percent do.

But let’s drill deeper. Why is the administration embracing such a right-wing and futile program? Obviously, the problem in Georgia is the unemployment rate, of 10.1 percent, not the fact that unemployed workers lack a few weeks’ training for low-wage jobs.

.... sources close to the White House say the president and his political advisers are terrified that the Republicans will block an extension of unemployment insurance, except in exchange for draconian cuts in other social programs. They hope that if they extend this feeble olive branch, Republicans might go along. My sources, however, say no such deal with the Republicans has been struck.

Read the full article at:

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=feeble_president_feeble_plans

[MadHound]

1. Cool, way to screw over single parents,

And just about everybody else with this. Single parents won't be able to afford twenty four hours a week of day care if they're not getting paid. And this will just lower the wage scale for everybody else, a wage scale which is sinking already.

[cyberpj]

212. So true. And wait -- so the government (we, the broke people) will be paying for this with taxes?

More from us to benefit corporations?

[cyberpj]

213. And BTW... FUCK CANTOR! Who CARES what he says? Tea partiers are a MINORITY. nt

[krhines]

223. I will be at freedom square

We are told over and over that we need to "take one for the team" and if we give just one more drop of blood then everything will turn around. Which I have no problem doing. But thats not how greed and exploitation works. When is someone going to ask the same of the corporations? What happend to the idea that it was a mutually beneficial relationship between employer and employee? Now we are made to believe that corporations are doing us some great favor by allowing us to do the work that makes million/billions of dollars for them. I like the saying "you don't need your boss your boss needs you" because without us there is no product or profit.

[truedelphi]

285. Hope to finally meet you, mod mom. n/t

[mod mom]

2. NPR covered this this morning. Just appalling!

[Cronus Protagonist]

151. This used to be called "Indentured Servitude"

The Robber Barons' progeny are still at it.

[Octafish]

251. It's the new normal.

Rich get richer. The middle class become the poorer.

Is high unemployment the 'new normal' even in a recovery?

Bailing out Wall Street banksters is normal, too.

[Auntie Bush]

295. I was called apprenticeship. IF you got the job!

How about job training or internship. My son worked his tail off for free for a DR. in the hospital one long summer. That was considered an internship...not slave labor. So what else is new?

[Better Believe It]

3. Right. We've got to rethink this whole unemployment compensation thing, paying people to not work

Isn't that the Republican political line?

[Taitertots]

10. The problem is that we do need to "rethink" it, but not the way they are doing it

We need to have counter-cyclic policy responses. Keep unemployment compensation and create jobs directly when more jobs are needed.

[jefferson_dem]

43. Do you seriously think they would be better off being paid to not work than being paid...

to get retrained in a position that may very well roll into full time, permanent employment.

Surely, those who would benefit from such an opportunity would appreciate your ... principled opposition.

[RandomKoolzip]

64. When you're one electric bill or one unemployment check away from homelessness

going to some job basically work for free isn't really an option.

[jefferson_dem]

69. Point taken.

Ill await the details but its my understanding that workers continue to receive unemployment just as they would without the training. The sacrifice would be tme not spent looking for work during the training period.

[bread_and_roses]

104. No - The "sacrifice" is the value of their labor! Or don't they "own" even that?

Their labor can just be appropriated? On the "promise" of "some sort" of training and remote chance at some sort of job? Do you know that there was a time when companies trained people WHILE they - THEY, THE COMPANY - paid them? It was THE COMPANY that was going to get the surplus value of their labor - that's what the company calls "profit" - so the worker is already "sacrificing" - s/he "sacrifices" that portion of his/her labor that the company - even in a traditional model - that the company appropriates for "giving" them the chance to work.

Since when does any "progressive" support serfdom? (why do I even ask - it's when Obama signals he'll consider it, I guess)

[woo me with science]

150. Thank you,

and it is disgusting that you even have to explain that on a Democratic board.

Good god, I can't believe the waist-deep right wing crap we are having to fight off under a Democratic President.

[MH1]

143. "currently $240, if they agree to work 24 hours a week"

what's the 240 for, a week, a month?

it's not 'for free' although it's pretty cheap if it's per month (240 for about 100 hrs of work).

Still, $240 should pay at least a couple electric bills.

I've been flat broke, unemployed, and at many different levels of partial and full employment (skilled and unskilled) through my life. I can see how this program could be useful to some, even if they didn't get much skill training from it. I know at least one stage of my life that it would have worked for me. Were I to be laid off now (not likely) I probably wouldn't have much use for it for myself. But if it helps some, go for it.

[Dragonfli]

176. a one time payment, no more next week, next month, or next year. Cheap

You too may soon be able to buy one for $240.

[sce56]

177. I'm sure the panhandlers make more than that in a week! And there are plenty of them now days!

[walerosco]

239. This is one of the lamest ideas ever

I will tell you what smart companies would do. They would start hiring all their new emplyees from the govt created indentured servant class. They can also keep using the programs forever and not actually hire anyone but the really really talented ones.

[JoeyT]

68. Do you seriously think the companies that take advantage of this will actually train anyone

and keep them on, or will they just rotate out trainees for free labor?
Teaching people to force leprechauns to give up their pot of gold is more realistic than hoping a company won't just shitcan the "trainee" when they start to cost money. After they've already gotten rid of a bunch of people they were paying before because it's hard to compete with free, of course.

I hope he's not seriously considering this. It takes about a half a second of thought to realize why it will be a disaster.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DollyM]

189. I could see this being very useful in social service programs that have been cut

I have a social service degree but cannot find a job. Most of our state's social service programs have been cut to the bone so when a job does open up, they get deluged with resumes. If I could do something like this, it would give me a leg up on the competition and provide the social service agency with the help they need to meet needs. It may not be that job, but it is current experience and that would put me in better stead for the next job down the road. You know there is already a welfare program like this that puts mother's to work in "volunteer" positions, in order for them to keep receiving their TANF welfare benefits. The rest of us who don't have kids, would also like a break. I am 50 and even though I have an advanced degree, I cannot find a job after losing mine 7 months ago at a social service agency. I have put on weight, my self esteem is at the bottom of the barrel, I barely want to drag myself out of bed in the morning. I would welcome the chance to be back in a professional environment just to keep my brain from turning to the jello!

[OneGrassRoot]

205. Thanks for that perspective. I agree. There are some instances...

in which this could be good for the "employer" -- more specifically social service programs -- and the individuals.

Yet, if not set up properly, it's just another avenue for exploitation by companies. Even well-meaning Main Street-type, versus Wall Street, companies could veer into greediness due to their own fears and insecurities.

[coalition_unwilling]

279. Is there any way you can volunteer to help a progressive non-profit, like

Habit for Humanity, Greenpeace, or their like? That would allow you to keep your game up and do some informal and formal networking. Just a thought.

[DollyM]

301. I need specific experience . . .

I have had plenty of time to study on what jobs are out there that fit my needs, education and interests and a nursing home social worker is it. I have worked in the Activities department of the nursing home but not in Social work, however that is where my education is. Those positions do open up but they tend to hire the social work assistants that have worked in the facility first. I need to get in between those positions and with my degree, would stand a good chance at getting the job when it opened up. I have a plan, just need some help putting it into practice.

[dkf]

297. Yes...it is the lack of current experience and loss of skills that keeps employers from hiring the

Long term unemployed.

The knee jerk bad attitude and hostility towards Obama and employers is ridiculous.

[Horse with no Name]

119. Booom. THIS is the correct answer here.

This is indentured servitude until you fall into the 99'er status and then you ain't got jack shit...but along the way you learned how to rake items across the scanner at Walmart or dunk chicken in a deep fryer.

Forget being able to look for gainful employment...you will spend your time working in a shit job for less than minimum wage.

[haele]

309. Fast food resturants already do this - they take advantage of a DoL entry level training program -

And as soon as the trainee "graduates", they come up with an excuse and tell the trainee they can't keep him or her, wait two months, then hire a new crop of trainees that the government pays all the costs - including wages - it takes the company "to train".

I can see this ending badly - and the gap between the wealthy "Leaders" and the average workers - even skilled or professional workers - getting wider and wider.

Welcome to the new Feudalism. Better find yourself a good Lord who has a healthy sense of nobless oblige and will be willing to take care of his or her workers and their families, even after they stop being profitable.

Haele

[Gormy Cuss]

71. It's a good deal for the employers. For the unemployed, not so much.

I'm searching for an independent evaluation of GeorgiaWorks because frankly the state's mark of success is so soft as to be useless -- any employment in the 90 days after the end of training counts as employed -- that's just silly. If someone gets a one day temp job unrelated to the retraining, that's not a program success.

A proper evaluation of the program would require a bit more teasing out of the successes and failures as well as comparative or control groups to understand what happens to the unemployed who don't participate. If it hasn't been done, the administration has no business touting GeorgiaWorks as a model.

Meanwhile, there's no denying that the employers have some net benefit from hours worked without paying wages or benefits.

[jefferson_dem]

82. A win for employers. Sure.

The jury's out regarding impact on the unemployed, however. Of course, participation is not compulsory so unemployed workers can choose to not compete for these training opportunities.

Like you, I will seek out and welcome independent policy analysis. Embarrassed to say, I'm not familiar with the successes or failures of this program, in my home state.

[Better Believe It]

141. Employers who had people work for them without paying wages or benefits were called slaveowners.

[saras]

83. If you believe all that, there's a bunch of bridges for sale...

The obviously superior alternative is to treat them like adults. Pay the unemployment without conditions, and give people the opportunity to choose training.

At this point, there's no reason to believe that corporations *CAN*, let alone *WILL* step up to be such good Samaritans, without being *FORCED* to by the threat of substantial criminal penalties.

If you HAVE to provide fake employment for people, put them to work on the nations's infrastructure, not the profits of multinationals or their brainwashed ideas of "training".

[SusanaMontana41]

How about a jobs program that doesn't exploit workers? nt

[bread_and_roses]

98. I guess you didn't notice that 15% hire rate? Not to mention other MAJOR

GROSS INJUSTICES in this program.

My good goddess. Because Obama "might" support this travesty we are to embrace serf labor? How about the effing "companies" start paying a fair share of taxes, stop looking to the public sector to write off their local taxes and utilities in exchange for a promise of job creation? How about we tax them heavily for bringing goods made by cheap labor abroad at the cost of untold human and environmental damage/cost? How about we reject the so-called "free" trade agreements that exploit workers in other countries and cost decent jobs here?

And what's this "some form" of training? That can mean anything. Or more likely, nothing.

You are talking about nothing but another give-away to our Corporate Masters. I suppose they can live in company bunks too, and buy their toothpaste at the company store?

[TorchTheWitch]

116. It's much worse than serf labor

Serfs got free housing and food. Yes, the housing sucked, but back then it was normal to bed down with the animals in one big room... even the people privileged to live in the castle all slept in the straw on the floor with the everyone else.

This is WORSE than serfdom. At least a serf or peasant got SOMETHING tangible for their labor even if it was just enough to buy a loaf of bread for a day's work. This is even WORSE than that, and it's beyond appalling. It's utter madness.

The fact that any of these people actually believe that people will work entirely for free with no actually tangible reward whatsoever like housing and meals shows just how completely out of touch with the human race they are. NOT EVEN A SERF OR PEASANT OF OLD WOULD WORK FOR ABSOLUTELY NO TANGIBLE REWARD. Why the hell would they? The only people who would even consider doing such a thing in this far more enlightened and educated world is someone who's needs and wants are already being taken care of by someone else with a DEFINITE reward at the end of it as in a full-time job at a good salary guaranteed... and those people are VERY few and VERY far between.

Complete and utter madness.

[ladyVet]

206. My good Goddess is right.

I guess you didn't notice that 15% hire rate? Not to mention other MAJOR
Posted by bread_and_roses


GROSS INJUSTICES in this program.

My good goddess. Because Obama "might" support this travesty we are to embrace serf labor? How about the effing "companies" start paying a fair share of taxes, stop looking to the public sector to write off their local taxes and utilities in exchange for a promise of job creation? How about we tax them heavily for bringing goods made by cheap labor abroad at the cost of untold human and environmental damage/cost? How about we reject the so-called "free" trade agreements that exploit workers in other countries and cost decent jobs here?

And what's this "some form" of training? That can mean anything. Or more likely, nothing.

You are talking about nothing but another give-away to our Corporate Masters. I suppose they can live in company bunks too, and buy their toothpaste at the company store?

Can you believe this kind of crap comes out of Obama's mouth? Solving the unemployment problem is easy -- FDR did it -- if he had the courage or convictions to do it, and I doubt he has either.

[Better Believe It]

140. Do you seriously think employers should be encouraged by the government to not pay workers any wages

[DollyM]

188. being unemployed for seven months now, I would embrace this!

The longer you are unemployed, he harder it is to get employed. We need a foot in the door. I would do this in a heartbeat!

[coalition_unwilling]

280. I posted something similar upthread, but you seem like an ideal

candidate with your social service background to volunteer for a progressive non-profit. Doing so would like you keep your skills brushed up while creating some networking opportunities for you.

Just a thought.

[eridani]

191. They fucking well would if they had to pay child care out of their unemployment checks n/t

[me b zola]

198. Amazing the things that are now being promoted here

I predict that by the time of the election there will be a group here advocating just about every conservative policy platform that the Democratic Party used to fight against.

De-valuing labor and the men & women who labor is a conservative value, not one that I ever expected to see being promoted here.

[alarimer]

277. It's not retraining; it's exploitation.

Free labor in exchange for not much. I would bet money none of these people will be hired at the end of it either.

No, if you want a "make-work" program, we need something like the CCC, when the GOVERNMENT pays people to work on infrastructure projects in national parks. There is a huge backlog currently. But not this free labor for corporations.

[truedelphi]

287. Well what i think is we need --a real FDR style Presidential candidate to stand up and to say

"I am aware of the biggest heist of the average citizen's dollars EVER! Some twenty trillion and counting, and most of it going to the largest Financial Players. I will return that money to the Government Coffers, and will no longer blame the unemployed, the elderly, the pre-mature baby et al for being a burden on the system."

And believe me, when that person adds, "Geithner will be in jail," I definitely will vote for them.

Hells bells, if Elizabeth Warren would come to Lake County, California for "A Hag's Talk On the Economy" we group of twelve (The Haggle) might be able to convert HER to do this - the Senate is not a big enough office for someone of her integrity. We need honesty that starts at the top, and has been directed by those of us at the bottom.

[leftstreet]

4. Brilliant! Privatizing unemployment insurance

:scared:

[SusanaMontana41]

88. Guess he decided not to go big and bold, huh?

I know you're shocked, too.

[Lorien]

171. Nah, just slimey and crooked

gotta get that new feudalism firmly established, you know!

[girl gone mad]

178. And people here attacked Michael Hudson..

for pointing out that Obama embraces policies that will dramatically reduce wages.

[Safetykitten]

5. Unfuckingbelievable.

[TK421]

110. no..quite believable I'm afraid n/t

[Taitertots]

6. They are going to tell Companies that they can fire their workers and replace them for free

Is this supposed to create jobs or prop up the parasitic financier class.

At this point, why doesn't the government just directly pay workers to perform much needed public works and infrastructure projects? Why do they insist on giving the benefits of our labor to a tiny cabal of ultra rich people?

[coalition_unwilling]

281. Keynes actually argued that, in times of economic stagnation and

contraction like we face right now, it would be better for the government to pay the unemployed to dig holes and fill them back in, than to leave those workers idle and unable to generate any demand for consumer products and services.

That's where Obama should start (the maximalist position) and then negotiate down from there to something like the CCC or WPA (your suggestion in the form of a question). Instead, Obama STARTS from a new-feudal orientation and compromises to fascism-lite.

Whatever. I'm voting Dem Socialist in 2012 and not looking back.

[joeybee12]

7. HOPE!!!

I want this sorry excuse for a democrat to be collecting unemployment after 2012.

[JVS]

8. OMG! This is an incentive for employers to fire everyone and hire them back on the government's dime

[gordianot]

12. Now that would be Socialism Wall Sreet could live with.

While they are at it raise taxes to pay for entitlements to fund government. That is really thinking out of the box in a post partisan world.

[Jkid]

9. I would not mind if the companies are required to hire the people after a certain period.

But as it stands, it's already going to fail. A much better idea is to keep people on benefits if they're in some kind of education, training, volunteer, or part time work. Face it people the economy is possibly not in a depression, it's effectively changed almost permanency. Instead of adapting, they're trying to keep things normal as usual.

[DotGone]

15. Requirement to hire after a certain period would not work

They'd just fire the people and get a new bunch of slaves. Company I worked for would fire people just before their 1 year anniversary so they wouldn't have to offer benefits. It was "cheaper" to train new people.

[inna]

11. OMG. This administration is out of control.

WTF is wrong with these people.

[durablend]

16. Absolutely nothing!

Going right according to plan for the people they're REALLY working for.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. Yep!

[walerosco]

245. +100

His support of the banker bailout tipped me off on what he was going to do as president.

:puke:

[walerosco]

+100

His support of the banker bailout tipped me off on what he was going to do as president.

:puke:

[walerosco]

247. +100

His support of the banker bailout tipped me off on what he was going to do as president.

:puke:

[leftstreet]

47. Bush and the Republicans could never have gotten away with this

:-(

[Dragonfli]

133. That is what they don't want us to see, a Republican inside our party is worse

because what would be a thing for our party to oppose all of a sudden becomes something our party will support.
We would have been better of with a Republican, at least we could then filibuster bullshit like this, under Obama, not so much.

[walerosco]

248. Oh yea

If I remember correctly we did not filibuster any Bush's bill when we retook the house and senate. The democrats are weak agents in our political system. They filibuster nothing when they are out of power and when the hold power, they capitulate to the minority.

A republican president wouldn't make democrats grow anymore spine than they have during the 2005-2007 years.

[truth2power]

66. They're shooting themselves in the foot. And economist, Rick Wolff says

you shoot yourself in the foot when you're hysterical.

They have no idea how to fix the unemployment issue. They're just flailing around.



edit> typo

[eomer]

200. Wrong metaphor. They are more like leeches sucking blood out of a foot.

Notice that they are rich and powerful and getting more so year after year. They're not the owners of the foot that is bleeding the body to death, they are the leeches attached to it and sucking all the blood out of it.

They do know how to fix the unemployment issue but they don't wish to. Our current condition is what they seek. We're having the Shock Doctrine applied to us.

The only way in which this might come back against them is if they overreach and cause a major revolt in this country. But I'm not hopeful; I think they've figured out how to manage the appearance of democracy and calibrate their offenses to keep us below our boiling point.

[kenny blankenship]

298. I think I know what's wrong with them. What I want to know

is what's wrong with us, that we could be so easy fooled into thinking an elephant is a donkey?

[xchrom]

13. recommend

[woo me with science]

14. Good fucking god.

Yeah, we're all just DUPED into thinking this President isn't a progressive. :sarcasm:

Every day there is a new one. Every goddamned day. :puke: :nuke:



.

[QC]

20. But...but...but...he believes in PROGRESS!!!

That means he's a progressive!

And you never really loved him anyway!

[SammyWinstonJack]

306. Forget about never loving him, I can't stand him!

He is a lying LIAR!

[sabrina 1]

36. But you notice that those making the claims that we are all

being 'duped' into that thinking, never, ever talk about the issues. They focus only on the conspiracy theory that anyone who disagrees with this president has to be a 'plant' or someone duped by the plant. :eyes:

I'd like to hear them explain this away. Another gift to Corporate America, if true.

[durablend]

62. They'll find some excuse

They always do

[walerosco]

260. yea

Its the best he could get

Its bipartisan i.e the far right and the center right agrees to it

Corporations are people too etc etc

[Robeson]

44. It's Hooveresque. And it will get worse...

...this White House lives in a bubble.

[Bobbie Jo]

17. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1861067&mesg_id=1861067

[inna]

23. vile personal attack and patently false accusation

[Bobbie Jo]

31. LOL

Vile? :rofl:

What's described at the link is VILE. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is what it is

[inna]

46. i'm glad you're easily amused

- but it is your insinuations, unfounded and false accusations, and constant personal attacks directed at your fellow DUers that are "VILE".

- not to mention, against the rules.

:shrug:

[girl gone mad]

51. Agreed..

and alerted.

[Bobbie Jo]

53. Prone to exaggeration much?

No worries, reinforcements have arrived.

[Divernan]

203. So, BobbieJo, how's it going for you and President McDreamyAbs (to quote your link)

[Bobbie Jo]

234. Really?

That's all you have? It doesn't even qualify as good snark.

Reading the ENTIRE post is helpful when composing a reply.

[jefferson_dem]

35. ...

:)

[Rex]

77. Yeah I agree that was a garbage thread.

TY for pointing it out! :hi:

[dgibby]

153. I just finished reading that thread,

what a load of self-congratulatory, pseudo-intellectual, divisive conspiracy theory drivel.

[WinkyDink]

18. Someone tell me one plan the President has had that helped workers, with no "in the future we'll fix

it" addendum.

[jefferson_dem]

38. Easy: the economic stimulus package.

Have you not been paying attention for the past two and a half years?

[leftstreet]

73. No, something that helped Main Street, not just Wall Street n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

114. The Stimulus plan of 2009 is responsible for keeping things from

getting a lot worse. To wit, we were losing 700K jobs a month before its passage. After its passage, the hemorrhage of job losses stopped and we seem now to be bouncing along a stagnant bottom.

That did 'help' workers, just not enough.

[Better Believe It]

215. "Things" have gotten worse. We needed a bold plan to pull us out of the recession/depression.

[coalition_unwilling]

278. This will probably sound like pure sophistry to you, but it's the

rate at which things are getting worse that improved as a result of the stimulus. That's small consolation to those suffering the effects of the failure to provide a sufficiently sized stimulus package in 2009. But the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (one of the few arbiters of statistics whose work can still be trusted, imho) released a study yesterday that between 1 to 3 million existing jobs are still here because of the 2009 stimulus. So, if things are bad now and getting worse, imagine how much worse they would be (and how much quickly they would be getting worse) had the stimulus not been passed. AS it is, when Obama is voted out after a single term, the unemployment rate will be in the neighborhood of 10%. After a single term of President Romney or worse, the unemployment rate will be hitting 25%.

IOW, I actually agree with you that matters are getting worse or, at best, doing a dead cat bounce off a stagnant bottom. There's plenty that remains to be done and I don't think Obama is the person to do it any longer.

[PufPuf23]

19. This is a GOP dumb plan that is just another give away of

public monies to the private sector.

The incentives are to decrease actual job creation and lower ages and benefits.

Too bad the movie title of Dumb and Dumber has already been used as a dark comedy could be called Democratic and GOP.

sheesh.

[sad sally]

21. Another well thought out program?

The program has received mixed reviews from unemployment advocates and economists though. Some question whether it really helps the jobless return to work, while others are concerned about the quality of training participants receive.

Also, the state has had to dramatically scale back the program as officials seek the money needed to continue it. Georgia Works' financial troubles began last fall when the labor department increased the stipend to $600, from $300, and opened it up to anyone without a job, not only those receiving benefits. That expansion essentially drained the programs of funds within a few months, forcing officials to cut back the stipend to $240 and restrict it once again to those getting unemployment checks.

Now, the unemployment funds used to pay the stipend must go to paying the interest on the state's loan from the federal government to cover benefits. So the department has basically stopped marketing it. There are only 19 trainees currently enrolled, down from 950 a year ago.

--

But the program has run afoul of unemployment advocates, who say that workers should be paid. Since participants are trainees, they aren't subject to minimum wage laws.

"Unemployment benefits are not equivalent to wages," said George Wentworth, senior staff attorney at the National Employment Law Project.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/29/news/economy/georgia_jobs/index.htm?du

[MannyGoldstein]

22. I was expecting a link to the Onion

Wow.

[jefferson_dem]

34. Might as well be.

[Harmony Blue]

42. Are we not saying this too much lately?

Maybe we should embrace this shadowy, dark reality that is enveloping us? >.<

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. He talks and I hear * .

:shrug:

[DearHeart]

26. Unfathomable!!!

I have tried my best to get past all the crap that Obama has pulled, ie: Continuing Bush's rendition policies, extending the Bush tax cuts, trying to extend our time in Iraq and not pulling troops out like he said, basically going back on every election promise and then some. He has pulled this party so far to the right and it's making me sick to my stomach every time I read another article about his plans!!! Now he pulls this stupid f-ing right-wing tactic/idea out and is going to try and sell it to all of the unemployed?? Good luck with that!!!!

I know that Repukes are obstructing everything he puts out, but dammit, why won't he fight??? I do not understand why he doesn't put together the biggest jobs bill in history and put it out there for the entire country to see & hear about and let the Repukes obstruct it. Then, he should SHOUT from the MOUNTAIN TOP, along with every other DEM (TALKING HEADS, DNC, EVERYONE) that HE and the DEMS tried to do something to get our economy moving and the Repukes are obstructionists and yet again, said NO!! Maybe the silent majority wouldn't be so silent anymore. When are people going to get so damned sick & tired that they finally speak up?? Do the rest of them have to lose their jobs also in order to start making some noise??

I guess that I'm just dreaming and I'm a naive idealist, but I can't help it. I'm very critical of this President, because frankly, he's not doing the job that voted him into office for and he capitulates to the Repukes on a constant basis. I will vote for him only because I don't want the Repukes to get into the WHITE HOUSE and I don't want a REPUKE installing any more right-wingers on SCOTUS.
:rant:

[undeterred]

27. How to turn the labor force into slaves.

[TorchTheWitch]

122. even slaves were housed, fed and clothed

This is much worse. It's madness. They truly expect people to work for free yet somehow magically provide their own housing, food, clothing, medical care, transportation, etc. It's fucking utter madness.

[MichiganVote]

28. Why did we elect this guy again?

[undeterred]

29. Dope and Mange.

[whatchamacallit]

91. lol! n/t

[Raine]

113. LOL

:spray:

[undeterred]

128. Maybe I should make it into a bumper sticker.

Since I can't find a frickin' job.

[jefferson_dem]

167. Bet teabagger types would eat that shit up.

They've been childishly mocking Obama and his message since 2008.

Give it a shot!

[smokey nj]

127. .....

:rofl:

[Carolina]

30. another horrific idea

from the Goldmann Sachs guys. And BHO listens to them

We are truly screwed

[Robeson]

32. Somewhere in Texas, an ex-president smiles...

...you're doing a heck-of-a-job, Barack...

[jefferson_dem]

33. The unemployed would certainly be much better off updating their resume, checking monster.com...

and sulking than getting retrained, working in a position with a real chance to roll into full time status, and networking with other potential employers...all while still receiving UI. :eyes:

[Fumesucker]

48. So you don't think there's any chance that companies would fire paid employees?

And then replace them with ones that cost them nothing?

Keep in mind that there's millions of undocumented aliens working here right this minute.

[undeterred]

60. What are the chances that the unemployed would actually

end up in a job related to a field they already have experience, education, and interest in? Not very high.

[whatchamacallit]

89. Apparently no Obama proposal - no matter how odious - is beyond your defense

:puke:

[Dragonfli]

134. Groupthink + Doublespeak = Brainwashed tool of the rich willing to support anything

[dgibby]

136. That wasn't an earthquake in Va the other day.

It was Jefferson rolling over in his grave.

[Go2Peace]

184. Actually, for most it will take valuable time away from the job hunt

It takes determination and hard work to land a job in this era. Fine if there is a real promise of a job, as in if you work and learn a position is available. But somehow I doubt that will be what will happen.

[XanaDUer]

241. After I got laid off in Georgia

if I had had to do this dumb-shit idea, you're absolutely right- I'd have been screwed from taking a job for less money, in my field that I have a master's for, and still have some student loans to pay off.

I could not have driven over 300 miles (thank God I never bought a place and have no kids) for a comparable job at almost 20k less per year.

[B Calm]

37. Cheap Labor Conservatism

[Bragi]

39. You can fire employees and then rehire for free

Great.

[inna]

50. Fucking genius, isn't it.

I mean, literally, jaw-dropping. :wow:

Even the Chamber must be impressed as hell; this goes beyond their wildest expectations.


:nuke:


we're so fucked.

:nuke:

[jefferson_dem]

56. Speak for yourself...

And you can keep your "we're fucked" doom and gloom. Feel free to sit and sulk if you wish but actual Democrats haven't forgotten who the real political enemy is ... and will be fighting to win in 2012.

[RandomKoolzip]

57. .

:rofl:

Denial is hilarious sometimes. In fact, in this economic climate, this kind of gallows humor is the only thing that keeps me from jumping in front of a bus.

[gkhouston]

59. Know your place.

Jump underneath the bus. :hi:

[RandomKoolzip]

61. Ha! Beautiful. Thanks for the temporary uplift.

I sear, some centrist DUers have NO idea what it's like to be poor in America right now. They talk about Obama and the GOP like they're spectators in a goddamn football game. they don't care that to some other DUers, this is life and death.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

65. I do speak for myself, tyvm.

:wtf:

It's not your place to tell me to shut up, but what the fuck ever. :shrug:

[whatchamacallit]

90. All you have to do is look where the president has brought this country

to know your true enemy.

[Lorien]

174. Win what, exactly?

a bigger GOP wet dream brought to life by a DINO? No thanks.

[Go2Peace]

186. why fight em' when it seems our leaders just join them?

[Little Star]

123. We're so fucked. How sad but true. n/t

[Lorien]

173. Especially those who had been making a decent wage. nt

[hifiguy]

40. In the words of Popeye The Sailor

"I've had all I can stands and I can't stands NO MORE!!" from the Current Occupant. That a "Democrat" would even seriously consider such a thing is revolting beyond words. If this is the best you can do, sir, I advise you to resign, and NOW.

:puke::banghead::argh::puke::banghead::argh::puke::banghead::argh:

[jefferson_dem]

45. The "Current Occupant" ... must resign!!11!!!1

:wow: You tell him!

[Dragonfli]

138. At the very least a little honesty is in order, he should formally change his party affiliation

I know 90's Republicans have been replaced by worse, but his views align perfectly with vintage 90's Heritage Foundation thought.
He is ideologically a Republican, such policies did not become "the center" just because of the fascists in the mix.

If he were at least honest about it I could perhaps respect him again.

[jefferson_dem]

166. So confusing...

Virtually all rank-in-file Democrats and elected Democrats support him and his agenda.

Virtually all rank-in-file Republcians and elected Republicans oppose him and his agenda.

Yet you are telling us that he is actually a Republican. So I guess the entire political world is duped, eh? Got it. :crazy:

[Dragonfli]

168. What you describe is the product of the "football team" mentality in politics, by his policy alone

I make my my judgments, If you were around in the early nineties and aware of the Heritage foundation you would recognize his his health profit plan for instance.

Are you not aware that many things the President has proposed were things the Republicans were for until he proposed them? I believe EVEN YOU have mentioned that bit of silliness, have you changed your mind?

I also noticed how the pro-environment Democratic party now agrees with toxic pipelines and more smog now that Obama loves the approach.

[ladyVet]

211. I said something similar in another thread.

I think Obama is actually in his heart a Republican, like you said a 90s one, but couldn't get elected president as a black man unless he was a Dem.

It's sad that I, technically not a Dem (registered since the beginning as Unaffiliated), hold the Democratic platform closer to my heart than our own leader.

And for those who like to call people who disagree with you a plant or a troll, I assure you I am about the farthest thing from a Republican as you can get. My Bush-loving ex-husband will gladly tell you all about it. ;-)

[Jakes Progress]

149. Not after all that work the neocons did to get him in there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Cutting the trickle to a drip and calling it "change".

[Broderick]

49. I just put on my fancy new rose colored blinders!

It's all propaganda against Obama and Democrats. The real jobs picture is that everything is humming along great! The unemployment numbers are a lie! the foreclosure crisis is all manufactured by operatives to make Obama look bad!


I feel better now! We are in the midst of the greatest recovery ever!

[Bobbie Jo]

52. Delete

[ProgressIn2008]

54. If this is true, I propose that Obama work for free. nt

[Hawkowl]

72. I propose that he JUST WORKS!

Everything he does is a step backwards! Jeebus, I think we'd be better off with McCain because we could blame all this shit on him.

[RandomKoolzip]

55. C'mon, defenders - Defend this! I dare ya! I'd LOVE to hear what you come up with!

Lemme guess: you'll choose to attack the author...or the Prospect...or me. ANYTHING but admit that Obama is far FAR from being a liberal.

[cstanleytech]

180. Why should they waste their time with you defending it when you have made

up your mind though? Just curios.

[jpak]

242. OK

Under this program, unemployment recipients get their REGULAR UI checks - these do not go away

If they WANT to work for 24 hours a week - they get an ADDITIONAL $240 ($10/hr - better than minimum wage)

They WORK to get an additional $240 - it is not forced on anyone

It is not "work for free" - they get a stipend for VOLUNTARY on-the-job training.

They can put it on their resume - to get a better job

It is a good deal for those that want to take part

OBAMA 2011

yup

[Dragonfli]

299. If the free job only lasted 24 hours $10/hr would be correct. What if it is more than a week?

How does one get any training worth much in one week of part time work? Wouldn't it take months or even years? How long did it take you to acquire the skills for your job?

I have trained as an apprentice and then journeyman for four separate trades, each one took years to acquire the necessary skills to make it to journeyman, all of my training took a career of 35 years. I am glad I was paid to work doing the hard (really hard) shitty work on a job site before I was capable of doing the skilled stuff.


Indentured servitude is not the answer.


By the way I find it insulting and disingenuous to write that the payment is anything more than a one time signing bonus as you damn well know it is!

Divide that sum over two or three months (note: skills that are that quick to learn will not get you another job) and tell me what the wage is, hell make it six months the more likely scenario if one expects businesses to decide to use the program.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

308. Clearly, you missed the part where the $240 is a ONE TIME stipend.

[PA Democrat]

58. Companies would NEVER abuse such a system, would they?

Oh yes, I trust corporate America to do the right thing. They care deeply about American workers.

:sarcasm:

[radhika]

67. Ongoing Myth: The Unemployed are 'Untrained'

I know so many unemployed teachers, nurses, skilled trades people, experienced customer service personnel and the like. They have many levels of academic and job training - bachelor/masters/PhDs. They are in unions, credentialled. They are tech savvy.

The WORK isn't there. The DEMAND isn't there. And the committment of American corporations to expand business/manufacturing operations in the USA is GONE. But they'll take a freebie when it's offered to them. Hell, who wouldn't?

Yes, some unemployed persons could clearly benefit from additional training and experience - but why turn a desperate serf into a paid employee when there is another free serf waiting in line?

[leftstreet]

70. +1

:applause:

You should make this an OP

[gkhouston]

76. Agreed. n/t

[Claudia Jones]

75. well done

Excellent post.

[Johnny Noshoes]

85. I've only been out of work for a week.

I have over 30 years experience - no formal training just everything I've learned on the job. I look at jobs in my field or related to it and get this sinking feeling everytime. I just feel like I know nothing at all. I can't afford to go back to school. I'm 57 years old and feel like I was tossed away like a used tissue. I'm out of money just waiting for the unemployment checks to kick in and don't get me started on the system here in NY. Oh yeah I do have a 401k plan or did and once I can get my hands on some of that the cash situation will improve somewhat. I get the feeling I'm gonna end up in some shitty retail job just to have a job. Yes the resume is on Monster and yes I've sent several out - it has only been a week. Yet asking someone to be patient when they wake up every morning sick to their stomach from fear is asking too much. I don't want to hear any claptrap about give him some time, or being told I'm sulking - me and millions of others just want to work again with a living wage - we want a FUCKING job.

[radhika]

95. I'm sorry - it must be scary and a shock...

After 30 years, learning a specific trade. I can imagine the shock is daunting, especially only a week into a new era/

I'm curious: would the Georgia Plan described above feel like a step forward? New skills and all that?

[Johnny Noshoes]

102. There are three companies

There are three companies here in NYC that do what the bankrupt company I used to work for did - my hope is that one of them buys the assets of the old place and can use me and some of the other human assets of the old place. We know the databases,we know the systems,hell they have assets from the company I worked for when the last one bought that one. We have TV ads on 16mm film from the sixties and 70's, I know that database. We have storyboards - some I shot - on microfilm. We have videotapes in the library - some I put together. So that's my hope. Would the Georgia plan work - maybe if I had no other choice. I've already sent my resume to two of them, intend to call one of them back on Tuesday and send my resume to the third. I found a company in Ontario Canada that does exactly what my old place did - If I had the chance I would move to Canada in a shot. That's kind of a hail mary pass but again if I had to I'd take the shot.

[gkhouston]

146. Someone who's been in the workforce for 30 years can remember

when employers provided training for new hires, with a decent salary and benefits. The idea that we should work for almost nothing and not have a job at the end of it is outrageous.

[Johnny Noshoes]

243. When I walked into that first office...

When I walked into that first office the Tuesday after Labor Day 1979 I was brought back to the room where I was going to work. The guy who was there - a very patient man - shot a few commercials showed me how it was done, gave me the library tape and said that's it. I'm a fast learner, got the hang of it pretty quickly and shot 54 commercials that first day. The job was taking black and white stills of TV commercials and the film was assembled into storyboards. I learned analog video editing the same way - watched a guy do a couple of jobs, sat down at the controller and just started cranking out work. So many things in that business now can be done by ad agencies themselves accessing a monitoring company's website - I feel like a dinosaur.

[lunasun]

314. and do not forget the employer gets paid something by gov. for ripping us off too

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. Clearly that is the plan.

Yes, some unemployed persons could clearly benefit from additional training and experience - but why turn a desperate serf into a paid employee when there is another free serf waiting in line?


:thumbsup:

[coalition_unwilling]

118. I hope you will consider making this an OP. We are seeing the

ouroboros of disaster capitalism in its end stages feeding upon itself. Both of the bourgeois capitalist parties serve the interests of diasaster capitalism and its ruling classes and lackies, not the working classes.

[radhika]

125. Do you mean 'Original Post'?

Make it a standalone on this site, or something else.

[coalition_unwilling]

130. Yes, I mean start a thread (an 'Original Post' or 'OP') with your

comment. It needs to be hammered into consciousness that, as you put it, the current crisis is not b/c of a lack of skills but rather b/c of insufficient aggregate consumer demand.

All by way of saying I really appreciated your comment :)

[Better Believe It]

142. YES! Start a new thread on this board with your excellent post!

[myrna minx]

129. Excellent post.

:applause:

Welcome to neo-feudalism.

[Horse with no Name]

131. Exactly. It flies side by side with the sad fact that the UNSKILLED

labor force probably doesn't even qualify for unemployment insurance anyway since the majority of those positions are now part-time without ANY guarantees of hours.
Most places just quit scheduling them because they don't have to give certain amounts of hours, so they just quit showing up for work and don't actually ever enter into the unemployment numbers, let alone the line that actually gets a check.

[Aerows]

214. Yeah, people with PhDs

Will need retraining if they are going to say "Do you want fries with that?" or learn how to clean houses for the wealthy.

Who actually thinks this is going to lead to a GOOD job, when people that are already skilled for the good jobs can't find a job? There isn't a corporation that ISN'T going to try to take advantage of employees working for free. Interns already do it for free.

Just wonderful, now that those who have a job and get paid for it will get to compete with people who don't get paid at all.

[nashville_brook]

216. +1000000

[Inuca]

232. IT IS NOT A MYTH

look here http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm unemplyed rate for people that have less than a high school diploma 14.3% high school graduates, no college 9.6% some college or associate degree 8.2% bachelor degree or higher 4.3%. These are august 2011 numbers.

[radhika]

263. I am familiar with those numbers....

Yes, the more education the more likely you are still in the job market. I do agree. And added skills are always a plus, anywhere. But there are systemic factor that persist.

Unemployment rates are not the same for all ages, races and parts of the country. A 45+ unemployed college graduate will stay on the beach for quite a while. And he/she will rarely re-enter the workforce at a skills/salary level as before. Just at the age that kids are entering college, by the way.

Racial and ethnic communities have unemployment rates into the 20-40%.

Another trend: higher skilled unemployed people are moving into jobs that were originally open to less skilled employees or high school grads. As the recession continues, and more young people leave college/community college WITH NO JOB OFFERS related to their education. They are taking jobs that could have easily been a starting point for others - such as retail and restaurant work.

[Inuca]

264. I unfortunatley have to agree

and I happen to be one of these high skilled people working at a job way below my education level. But I am glad I have it (it's also kind of fun and easy, which helps :-)).

[Shandris]

74. $240 is pretty good. IF IT WERE WEEKLY!

$10 an hour would be more than adequate, I'd say. Many of these people would work for less. But one time? I don't fucking think so! :grr: That's JUST like those so-called 'temp places' where they all but promise that after x number of days the company will hire you, then you go and bust ass and then the day before 'x' days passes, they change jobs on you. "Oh no, they don't need you today, sorry, you're going to some other place now."

[gkhouston]

78. Any employer who can't afford to pay trainees something isn't

going to have the money to hire them. This is a recipe for exploitation and wage erosion.

[Shandris]

117. Oh, I know. I don't support the measure in any way.

But the opportunity for part-time work at $10/hr (part time being the key there, because otherwise you'd REALLY have the exploitation going into overdrive) IF IT WERE WEEKLY is at LEAST work that can go on a resume (to get past those bastard companies that won't 'hire the unemployed'). That's the ONLY thing I was saying. But this measure, as it is? Absolute bullshit.

[Bluebear]

79. Everyone chill the fuck out. He's got this motherfucker!

:cry:

[Shining Jack]

192. ROFL!

That one is an instant classic of absurdity. He's got nothing and especially not that thing called a spine. Thanks for the lol BTW. :)

[Starry Messenger]

80. Why build workhouses when you can just turn businesses into them?

No, no problems that I can forsee there! Nosiree!

[QC]

92. This is a most pragmatic and sensible proposal indeed!

[Starry Messenger]

96. Just what I thinking...

"Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons?"

[russspeakeasy]

81. This better not be fuckin true...

[Initech]

84. If you expect me to work for free - fuck you!

[Broderick]

86. DO IT

for your "federal family" :)

[Brickbat]

87. This plan is indefensible.

[secondwind]

93. Am I the only person who thinks this is a good idea?

[Fuddnik]

97. Probably.

[krabigirl]

107. probably not. to CEOs, this is a dream come true.

[Shining Jack]

193. "to CEOs, this is a dream come true."

I would say wet dream.

[Dragonfli]

137. Well, most of us are against slavery and indentured servitude so yeah your nearly alone

Except for a few Third Way/DLC Republicans that have managed to get elected claiming to be Democrats.

[jefferson_dem]

165. Obama = Slave driver

There you go, folks. Just when we thought there were no more sharks to be jumped here on DU.

[Dragonfli]

169. Well all I can say is come work for me for free and I will train you to do it well, what do you call

working for free?

I might be able to make a living if I can get enough free labor from you, don't worry, working for free does in no way imply slavery.
You will be free to work for free.
How about it? Need an address for your new workplace?

Or is it only good for "other" people?

[jefferson_dem]

164. I'm withholding judgment...

But am willing to consider this as a win-win policy option.

[ZombieHorde]

253. OK, that is fair. What would inspire a bad judgement from you?

Training not being defined? Is taking out the garbage and moping the floor training? How about flipping burgers?

No way to make firing current, paid employees in exchange for hiring free, new employees illegal? That would suck.

What would make you view this program poorly?

[Bluebear]

172. Likely

[Shining Jack]

194. Yes. n/t

[Hoyt]

225. I don't think it is as bad an idea as some make it, but it definitely needs safeguards.

Getting paid a little extra than unemployment for retraining and a foot in the door ain't as bad as paying for training and not having a chance at a real job when you are through paying some worthless "school."

However, any employer who abuses people or the program should be fined big time.

I think we are in a situation in our economy where we have to try some new things, or we are going to be in serious trouble for decades.

[johnaries]

94. Sounds like an internship to me. nt

[XanaDUer]

101. I know, I saw this BULLSHIT, okay , I will vote for the guy

b/c the alternative sucks horse ass, but this was beyond the beyond.

BEYOND.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[XanaDUer]

235. WTF are you taking about?

I lost my job in Georgia about a year ago, and was lucky to get the pittance they dole out, after me shelling out tons of taxes from my paycheck to that state.

They started getting to the point of this - before I took an okay job and lost about 20k in salary per year. I moved out of Georgia, thank God, but I still have friends and co-workers terrified of losing their jobs there. They have kids in colleges and mortgages, which I don't.

This may work for some people, and, if it does - great - but Obama mouthing that this is some type of great idea is a load of manure.

[Raine]

103. sounds like indentured servitude to me. nt

[krabigirl]

105. this is absolutely atrocious! yay for modern serfdom. omfg.

:puke:

[Broderick]

109. Throw in that the Government wants to get into

the rental business and we are SET!

Gitty up!

[ibegurpard]

106. sounds great in theory

but considering the track record of corporate America does anyone really think they're going to actually hire these people for good and not just take advantage of the forced cheap labor?
fuck this!

[upi402]

108. Internships, the new slavery

Easier on the conscience than prison labor.

Go UNION!

[AzDar]

111. Jesus wept.

:wow:

[dgibby]

139. They wouldn't hire him, either, no matter how much

training he had. n/t

[Divernan]

204. Wept? More like sobbing hysterically and banging his head against the wall.

[Creideiki]

112. Given a progressive, this wouldn't suck

It's sort of like a subsidized internship. For someone like me with a computer engineering bachelor's and a math master's, but skills that are "out of date" added to the mix this would provide a quick way back into the productive labor pool.

However, with the conservatives we have, this will become a revolving door of employers exploiting cheap labor with no benefits.

Hooray for us.

[ibegurpard]

115. exactly!

[coalition_unwilling]

120. OT a bit, but if you have a M.S. in math, you should be able to

pretty much write your own ticket, I would think. Or am I just whistling past the graveyard?

[Creideiki]

152. I taught high school for a year and a half

I'd really like to get back toward IT, but skills "out of date". So I look at medical claims all day.

[BOHICA12]

157. Operate a program were employer can get up to 90%

wage reimbursement for up to 24 weeks of a new hires wage - stipulation: the new hire has to be long term unemployed (20 weeks or more). Our success rate is barely 55% - it is not the employers either, but the employment seeker that cannot keep the job. You name it - alcohol use, arrest, no-show, too-hot, and just plain quit.

You don't have to hear, "My unemployment is running out, guess I have to go find a job!" too often to very jaundice on the entire system and paint with a broad brush.

[coalition_unwilling]

282. I considered alerting the Mods to your use of Reagan-era innuendo, i.e., 'My

unemployment is running out, guess I have to go find a job,' as disruptive and insulting.

Then I thought why bother? I'll just put you on my Ignore list so I never have to read any of your insulting slanders against working folk ever again.

[BOHICA12]

311. Volunteer at your local Career One Stop ...

...you can do a great deal of good getting folks ready to go into that meat grinder of today's labor market. You'll find those eager for the assistance and you find those that will have you pulling your hair.

[bread_and_roses]

289. 55% is a very good success rate for - or would have been called that

in most of the programs I worked in during my human service days - humans are not widgets. However, pray tell why - if an employer needs staff - that employer should get reimbursed at 90% of the hire's wages? It's just another corporate give-a-way.

And having worked years ago in programs not too dissimilar to *the one your describe*, how much do you want to bet that if the employer can get ANOTHER 90% reimbursement if the first one quits or can be fired "for cause" then that employer will do their damn best to make sure the person leaves toward the end of that 24 weeks but before it's elapsed? Why not? Then, they can get at least 24 more weeks of work at 10% cost.

As for "My unemployment is running out, guess I have to go find a job!" there's such a thing as gallows humor and there are also individuals who's problems keep them from being steady workers. That's life, that's humans, that's a society too that expects everyone to be grateful for any sort of job at any wages and under any treatment. Ever read "Nickel and Dimed?" There are also people who always thought they'd be able to find a job that they might actually want, and find it on their own, and end up in your program only because they are desperate.

I love how we are so harsh, so demanding of any clerk in a convenience store or person doing grunt work - often physically very demanding, the kind that should pay A LOT simply because of the conditions/physical cost but all to often pays very little - but are so little inclined to question or motivations or rewards reaped by those who exploit the desperate.
*edit for clarity and punctuation

[BOHICA12]

310. Been in the business long enough to know the games

employers play. Only has to happen once, and we don't do business with them anymore. Has happened twice - and we won't be writing OJT agreements with those two businesses, ever again. It is good to have a long organizational memory. We won't even approach two employers who tried the same thing over a decade ago.

The hardest thing we have to deal with is getting an employer to make a decision and hire. Talk about gun-shy - and we are talking about small firms (if not nearly micro). If it isn't the perfect fit, they are choosing to pass on the opportunity to expand their workforce.

The intent of such an OJT agreement is to "off-set" lower productivity cost while an individual learns new skills and comes up to speed during the training period. Currently that incentive is not incentive enough for them to take the plunge. Good luck to the President .... in our area employers are not in the mood.

[lunasun]

315. Yes! it was the employees fault we didnt hire them after using themfree*that will be the excuse !!!!

[BOHICA12]

316. Please read the entire group ....

... the loss of employment has been about 80/20: Employees quitting (or not showing up) vs. being let go by Employers.

Earlier this year, I had to listen to employers rail against the local workforce's collective ethic - and thought what a bunch of jerks. This program has not given me much ammunition to combat that.

[Hotler]

121. Really Mr. President? Really? n/t

[boston bean]

124. WTF is he doing? This is pretty fuckin sad, from a Dem president.

[Little Star]

126. Who is going to pick the job you have to do? And..

How are you suppose to have time and energy to actually look for employment that you want that pays what you are worth while you are working for nothing??????????


This makes me want to puke! Just when you think he can't get any worse....:puke:

[lumberjack_jeff]

132. I think this is essentially a good idea. How much did you get paid to go to school?

Apprenticeship/internship has a long tradition, but can easily be abused.

[bengalherder]

183. I was paid to be an apprentice.

There's a huge difference there between apprenticeship and internship. One you get paid, hired more or less permanently with a true chance for advancement within a specialized field. The other, you just work for free until your 8 weeks or so are up. Companies rarely hire interns although they always dangle the carrot to keep the intern interested and eager.

I really see this being like some 'internships' in my field. Someone gets hired to get 'experience' at some menial task for 8 weeks, then gets booted for the next bit of free labor.

I won't go back to school for certification in my field because it would require an 'internship' in a field I have been in for almost thirty years and have become a journeyman thru the old system. As a highly skilled worker, I don't work for free, nor should anyone else whatever their circumstances. If these employers need help they should just hire people rather than expect the government to provide indentured servants.

[lumberjack_jeff]

228. "I won't go back to school for certification in my field because it would require an 'internship''"

I understand what you're saying about not wanting to work for free, but I can't help to wonder if that frustration is misdirected. You're a journeyman in your field, but to get the piece of paper which shows it to others, you have to invest many tens of thousands of dollars in a redundant education.

Personally, I'd rather work 25 hours a week for $2.50/hour to obtain a new skill and an improved network than spend thousands for college classes that often (generally?) are not relevant to the skill I'm seeking.

[bengalherder]

240. Not in my field.

I'm a cook.

Used to be guys made $16 an hour or more with equal experience. I make about $13 and had to adapt to other specialties do it.

Many of the people being turned out of trade schools make much less. The only thing a degree would get me is an in on the 'old boy' network that has sprung up around cooking schools. It would make it slightly easier to find work as part of a clique.

I've never had too many problems with employment until lately. Many bosses are a little drunk on the extremes they can push what they perceive as desperate people. Right now I'm working a Union job, getting the best money I ever have- and content if a bit bored. However, in the past, I've seen the revolving door in these so-called 'training' jobs. Most of the jobs these programs find are in service work and it devalues the work of professionals already in those fields. Also the tasks participants are given tend not contain a lot of real training. I've seen very few people hired on permanently thru these avenues.

I am against anyone working for free unless they are specifically and happily volunteering their time for what they desire to do and have financial support to do so. The $240 is a one time payment, not a real stipend.That program has as 15% success rate. Really, this shit is just a scam for employers to get people to do jobs for free that otherwise they'd have to pay mimimum wage for. I've seen employers do it before and it ain't pretty.

[alp227]

135. He's not helping fight the right wing whine "That's socialist" if he really wanted to pull an FDR

sigh...when will Mr. President ever LEARN? Now given that his father was a Kenyan immigrant I might also remark how Obama might not be thinking about the African-American slavery experience. I bet that Obama is pleading for some campaign contributions from those companies?

[Coyote_Bandit]

144. Finally something positive comes to those looooooooong-term

unemployed folks who no longer get unemployment checks - they don't have to fucking volunteer to work for free.

Damn, I feel sooooooo special now.

[cwydro]

145. Pathetic.

Just when I think I can't get any more disgusted.

This guy is so out of touch with the average American.

[NorthCarolina]

147. Free labor...like that program wouldn't be abused much

:eyes:

After 2 months of working for free...Oh, sorry but you just didn't work out so we'll be trying someone else...NEXT!

[workinclasszero]

148. I know the republicans want to bring back slavery

But please for the love of God, not from a democratic president! That would be the last betrayal of working class Americans I could take!

A REAL jobs program would have MASSIVE public works programs like in the depression, a MASSIVE cutback of military spending and ASAP ending of the 3 wars we are in now.

Also no more job killing free trade agreements! Any that we have must be renegotiated with built in worker and union rights and a living wage or they are scrapped!

Chances of any of this happening?

The devil will be ice skating in hell first...

I hope I'm wrong but seems like this country is doomed. It is going fascist with our very own Taliban/stormtroopers takin power. They will be burning people at the stake in the future, all in the name of God.

The vast majority of working class people here are totally brainwashed by Fox, hate radio and the heretic freeper Dominion churches they go to every Sunday.

I see it every day. People voting against the best interests of their own children! It is truly sick.

[JDPriestly]

154. How does the pay compare to minimum wage?

If it adds up to minimum wage, then, maybe. If not, then no.

Who would pay the person's Social Security and Medicare taxes? Would the person get health insurance?

I have a lot of questions about this. Would the employer cover the worker's Workers' Comp. insurance?

[Dragonfli]

158. No pay, just a one time "signing bonus" /nt

[tabasco]

155. They do this in Germany, too. n/t

[Hoyt]

226. Good point . . . . . . . that will be ignored here.

[Fumesucker]

276. Right, and German corporate culture is *exactly* like US corporate culture..

Oh, wait..

In Germany unions get seats on the boards of directors..

Can you even imagine that happening here?

[tabasco]

305. Well, another big diff is that German 1 euro workers have full health insurance

and all the other social welfare benefits.

I would say corporate culture is the same in Germany as anywhere else. Making money is the number one priority. Corporations are trying to dismantle the German social safety net there, just like they are here. If it were up to the corporations, there would be no unions.

So, your assertion that corporate culture in Germany is different is false.

[JDPriestly]

312. Are you sure. The government paid the employers to continue

to employ people part-time but for fewer hours. But did they place unemployed people in new jobs for the value of their unemployment? I doubt that.

If Obama does this it would just be awful for the morale of working people, and it would not improve the economy. The "pay" would continue to be the value of the unemployment benefits. That sure isn't much in California.

This is a horrible idea. Just awful.

If companies need workers, then the companies should pay normal wages for the work. Companies should not benefit from laying off workers or from the fact that another employer has laid off workers. That is an incentive in the wrong direction -- an incentive for employers to lay off their current workers and use the labor of cheaper, unemployed people. No. That's crazy.

[scentopine]

156. Say what you want about Obama, at least the bailouts for the rich are on time -nt

[NYC_SKP]

159. So, You Get to Keep Getting Unemployment Insurance AND another $10/hour Learning a Trade?

:shrug:

"The program, begun in 2003, pays people on unemployment insurance a small additional stipend, currently $240, if they agree to work 24 hours a week, for no wages, for a private employer while unemployed, in exchange for some form of training by the employer.

What's not to like?

:patriot:

[gkhouston]

170. It's a one-time payment.

If you only need 24 hours of "training", it's not a bad deal. Then again, you're not likely to receive significant job training (i.e., "learn a trade") in just three days, so either the training is crap or the employer's getting a boatload of free labor.

[Lorien]

175. Gives employers and incentive to lay off more workers-especially those with

Middle Class incomes- in exchange for a subsidized pool of cheap labor.

[NYC_SKP]

221. Ah, should have seen that.

Long week...

[ZombieHorde]

250. The $240 is not each week. That would be much better.

The $240 is a one time payment to the employee for an unspecified number of hours. Seems like there is a massive potential for abuse by corporations. That is the concern.

[jwirr]

161. That sounds like the old CETA program that encouraged employers

to hire people and train them for the job. They were expected to keep the employee on after the government subsidy ended - guess what - business soon found out that if they could get rid of the employee just before the benefit ran out then they could hire another sucker and get more government money. At least this one tells us up front that they are not offering us lasting jobs.

[madrchsod]

210. i was in the JTPA program

that one was a waste of time too. i never found work because when an employer read that i made over 11 working in a union shop i was not considered for the job. my wife and i opened our own business. that gave me an income till i found another good job in 88.

[Orrex]

162. I can think of only one way that this could not be a disaster

If, after the period of subsidized employment expires, the employer were required to retain the employee for a period at least equal to the subsidized period, it might not be 100% fucking awful.

Anything less that that, though, and it's simply another example of tax dollars being used as an incentive for employers not to pay their workers a living wage.

[XanaDUer]

238. That's a great point.

Like, guaranteed job for, at least, a year or something (unless employee steals or threatens someone- something egregious). It's a one-time stipend. Oh, and health benefits like Medicaid for this "internship".

[MsPithy]

163. And, the Sheriff of Nottingham will cut off the hand

of any "employee," who steals food to feed their kids, from the company cafeteria.

[bengalherder]

185. +1 n/t

[snagglepuss]

179. What is REALLY strange is that the British government, within the last week or so

announced the same deal for unemployed Brits. Is this just a coincidence?

[cstanleytech]

181. The idea might work though.

as plenty of interns dont get paid for example but they do it for the experience it provides them not to mention potential to make future contacts in the business.
If they do this I would like to see them offer up better benefits for those who accept the offer and also companies should be given tax breaks not based on the trainees they take on but rather the ones they hire at full time with of course a clause where they have to return the break with a stiff penalty for firing them before 2 years is up without something major like say them committing and then being convicted of a felony.

[sabrina 1]

182. No, it is not a coincidence. They, the Masters of the Universe

in their own minds, go to Global Conferences and make decisions for the Serfs in every country in the world. Check out the discussions at the G20 Conferences where all these things are decided. All countries are now apparently run by the World Band and the IMF and the Bildebergers et al. What I would like to know is, when did the American people, the British, French, Greek people et al vote to pass their business on to some Global Cartel?

Same thing with the 'austerity/shared sacrifice' nonsense, it's Global too, they even use the same labels. Seems we truly did lose our sovereignty after all and here we thought we were just being a little hyperbolic for the laughs. No one is laughing anymore.

[Shining Jack]

195. +1

Can you please stop saying things that I agree with??? :)

[ladyVet]

219. I know, right?

I keep wanting to post and agree with her, but that seems so stalkerish.

[sabrina 1]

265. Oops, sorry!

:-)

Or maybe it is you who should stop saying things I agree with!

Well, it's DU, we have to find something to argue about!

[Shining Jack]

288. Lol!

:hi:

[KoKo]

317. +11111 ...probably why he doesn't listen to Stiglitz, Baker, Krugman, Reich and others

who can't even get in to see him.

[DollyM]

187. I would do this in a heartbeat!

I currently pull in a grand total of $163.00 a week on unemployment. An extra $240.00 plus some job experience and exposure would make a TREMENDOUS difference to me! I realize that part of my issue is lack of experience. I worked for many years then took some time off to raise my son then went back to work part time, then full time, then full time with benefits, then the lousy economy in Illinois hit and I lost my job so I have about a year of "current" experience that is getting farther and farther behind me due to being unemployed for 7 months now. I have tried to volunteer to get some experience but have contacted two nursing homes and asked to volunteer in their social services department and they never called me back. I have a Master's degree in behavioral science and some nursing home experience in the past year but can't get anyone to even give me a chance. I have great references, just not much recent job experience. My other theory is that people who have jobs are so paranoid about using an educated volunteer that they won't give me a chance because they feel I might be a threat to their job. So If Obama can come up with a formal program that would help me get my foot in the door and supplement by UI payments, please, bring it on!

[Sirveri]

196. Just lie and say you're currently employed.

Or find a place that went under recently and add them to your resume.

Seriously, it's getting to the point where you just need to lie to get them to do the right thing. Close up all your employment gaps too.

The worst they can do is fire you, which implies that you got the job in the first place.

[Shining Jack]

197. Well if it works for you then fine...

But the "bring it on!" part makes me uncomfortable, bad memories.

[Divernan]

202. $240 is 1 time payment over unemployment period - wouldn't pay your gas costs to get to work!

Only 19 people are currently participating in the entire state of Georgia!

See how Obama spins this? 24 hours a week of free labor. $240 one time supplement. SOUNDS like, Oh, boy! $10 an hour!
No! No! No! With Obama, like with the GOP, you've gotta read the details, as in where the devil resides.

[Starry Messenger]

218. This is not $240 a week.

The articles make it a bit unclear, but this is a onetime stipend for up to 192 hours of work. That would bring in as little as .80 an hour.

[DollyM]

266. well, I can see it not being 240 a week, that's more than my UI

But, my feeling is that a formal placement into a program that could help me get some experience and my foot in the door is still something. At this point, I can't even get an interview for a job OR a call back on a volunteer job. That's how bad it is out there . . .

[Starry Messenger]

269. I hear ya.

All the options pretty much suck. :( I've been there too. :hug:

[droidamus2]

190. How about this

How about we try the old tried and true method of raising corporate taxes and closing current loop holes and then giving tax incentives for those corporations that actually create good paying jobs. Oh yeah I forgot Obama can't do that because the Republicans told him he can't raise taxes. People always bring up 'would you rather have a Republican as President'. As each day passes I see less and less difference between having a 'true' Republican and having Obama in office, but that's just my opinion.

[Major Hogwash]

199. Robert who?

Never heard of him.
I gotta get me one of them blog thingys.

[Divernan]

201. AFL/CIO: This program violates minimum wage law!

"According to these leaks and other published reports, the plan will be heavy on items that Republicans might support, such as a payroll tax cut and a tax credit for businesses that create new jobs, as well as items that cost no new money, such as a national program modeled on Georgia Works, which induces jobless workers to take temporary private-sector jobs for no wages, if they include training.

This morning, the AFL-CIO sent a letter to Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, pointing out that this violates the federal minimum-wage law."

http://blog.prospect.org/robert_kuttner/2011/09/more-bad-news-on-jobs-will-oba.html

[durablend]

224. No problem...

Just abolish the minimum wage!

See, there's always a solution (and people more than willing to use it)

[gkhouston]

290. I'm expecting that next. n/t

[madrchsod]

207. another example of clueless in the whitehouse

oh well,he`s not as bad as the other guys and gals.

[blindpig]

208. Geez, if Hoover had thunk of this he'd have won in 1936!

And revolution would have been in the air.

[mother earth]

209. Soon everyone will be on unemployment with this new corporate

giveaway! Life is good if you are part of the 1%.

[CrispyQ]

217. Work for free. That's where we're headed.

Some corporations have already worked out deals with prisons. Some prisoners get paid low (slave) wages, others work for free & get time off their sentence.

How can the middle class compete with Chinese workers & prison labor? No one is fighting for us. We're fucked.

[krhines]

220. Banks got bailed out we get sold out!

This is just another example in a long list of complete surrender to corporations. If this actually did pass I would not be able to vote for Obama agian no matter what. The apologist can call me whatever they would like but this would be the straw that breaks the camels back for me. To even entertain something like this is crazy.

[border_town]

222. I am not going

to dog Obama about this. It is an idea that seems to be working in Georgia.

[bengalherder]

246. 15% success

Since it's Georgia, I guess this is winning.

[Harmony Blue]

Isn't that sad?

How low have we sunk?

[Harmony Blue]

254. DP.

[coalition_unwilling]

284. You are joking right? Only 19 people are currently participating in Georgia, so any

statistician would tell you that you don't have a large enough data sample to make an informed judgment.

[Better Believe It]

227. Maybe Obama won't include this in his speech if White House staffers read the reaction on DU!

If the staffers have any sense .... that is.

[Honeycombe8]

229. Sounds more like training for free. For those who it will help, it sounds okay to me. There are

some unemployed people who would benefit from that program. So that makes it okay. No difference than going to a trade school or something, in my view. And they get actual on the job experience.

It wouldn't be helpful to older workers, but for those who are in their 30's, that could be helpful.

As long as it's only a PART of a jobs program. The jobs program has to have multiple parts, IMO, to attack the problem from different angles.

[XanaDUer]

236. Yes, jobs programs need multiple parts

for those whom it is appropriate for, this could be a viable way to get some training, and, if they need further help (professional work clothing - resume polishing, etc) things should be in place to help them in a systemic way.

However, as someone who lost a good-paying job in Georgia "just because" and lost a ton is salary, Obama saying this is some great idea is pretty sickening.

[Harmony Blue]

244. No.

I have never done an apprenticeship or internship for free. And if you are a college student and you intern you are given credit, which translates to real money, so no that is not done for free either.

No.

NO

NO!

Never work for free. Don't do it as it hurts not only yourself but others.

[Honeycombe8]

313. These are not normal times. These are not college students. These are desperate unemployed

adults, some of whom are in dire need of learning how to do something other than operate a single machine at the local factory.

I see this as a good opportunity for SOME, to learn how to do, say, secretarial work, computer technical work, etc., while getting on the job experience and a foot in the door.

It won't help MOST, esp. older workers. This is a program mainly for youngish workers who have pidgeon-holed themselves into a narrow occupation, and who need to learn how to do something else for a living, in order to compete in the job market.

So this is good for those people. I come from a union town that had a couple of plants. People would go to work at the plants, and plan on spending their entire work lives there, retiring early with a pension, health care for life, etc., all while getting amazingly good wages with overtime. However, I never planned on that because...as is obvious...you don't really learn how to DO anything for a living outside of that factory. If all goes well, you're set for life. BUT if the plant closes or lays off, then those workers can't compete in the job market; they don't really know how to do anything for a living except their narrow job duties they performed at that factory. THOSE are the people that a training job program would help...if they are the young ones.

BTW, at my law firm that I work at, we've hired paralegal or clerical trainees from a local high school a couple of times as interns. We didn't pay them.

[bluedigger]

230. How are migrant workers supposed to compete with that?

Agricultural producers are going to love this program! They can train me to pick cotton, and oranges, and apples, and tobacco, and...

[davidwparker]

231. Another benefit that is treated like a handout. SS, which

I've paid for for 25 years, really isn't mine. It is a handout.

Unemployment insurance, which my employer has paid for 18 years, now has strings attached. This man is OUT. OF. HIS. MIND. Did somebody give him a little side action and he is being blackmailed? Pathetic leader of both the country and party because he has no backbone.

Let's have a few more threads about the labor unions kicking off a new party called the Labor Party. I'm in.

[CrispyQ]

233. There is a reason the repubs have put up a bunch of clowns for 2012.

TPTB are perfectly happy with their current repub president.

[jpak]

237. So, they work 24 hours, get $240 ($10/hr) AND get their UI benefits - and this is "work for free"

there are no deluded folks out there

yup

[Better Believe It]

252. They don't get $10 an hour on top of unemployment benefits. They get a one time stipend of $240.

The employers don't pay these workers any wages, benefits or make payments into Social Security and Medicare.

It costs the employers nothing.

Free labor provided by the government.

Now let's try to spin that into something progressive.

[jpak]

257. Yeah - it would really suck to have this on your resume - employers would see it as a negative

and it's voluntary - so it really sucks

Teh Bad Obama!!1111

[Name removed]

249. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IDemo]

255. Didn't Abe Lincoln address the "work for free" thingy ~150 years ago?

:shrug:

[coalition_unwilling]

283. Um, my ancestors on my father's side fought at Gettysburg in the Iron Brigade

about the 'work for free' thingy. My ancestors, needless to say, are spinning in their graves at this latest . . . and from Obama of all people. Oh, the irony :)

[Mosaic]

256. If they want us to work for free, Here is a better solution

Let's get a virtual income plan here for the folks in the USA. If money is always available for wars, it can always be available for daily living for American citizens. Let's have a free income of at least 50k for every citizen, no work because robots can do that for free. It's 2011! Only slight sarcasm.

[loyalsister]

258. Community service requirements....

HUD has had them since 1998. The idea being to give back and to support a resume. It combats the bias against people who have periods of unemployment on their resumes.
Involving the private sector in a similar situation has plenty of negative aspects. But, it seems to me that it might be worth exploring.

[DollyM]

267. yes, finally a voice of reason on here!

TANF also has this requirement for mothers who are receiving welfare payments to give them some job experience as well. I am going on 7 months now looking for a job and have not even had an interview in those 7 months. It is ridiculously hard out there to find a job now so anything that would give me some experience and job exposure would be helpful. For all the people who are objecting to this, please, stop doing so on the behalf of me and other unemployed people. Some of us want/need a program like this.

[ibegurpard]

268. sorry, no

I'm not going to give the go-ahead to anti-social corporations to find an excuse to keep a revolving door of unemployed people working for free
I understand you're desperate but think about what you're asking for

[DollyM]

270. I am asking for experience!

I have a Master's degree in a social service field but very little recent experience. I contacted two nursing homes AND a social service program to ask if I could volunteer in their social service department and never heard back. I can't figure out why unless it is because people are so paranoid about their own jobs that they don't want to use a volunteer they fear might replace them. We need a formal program that will overcome these hurdles so those of us who are unemployed and need some recent experience, can get it. I am past desperate, I am reasonable and trying to come up with a plan B and C to find a job. At this point, sitting at home, bored and depressed is not helping me. I just want a way to get my foot in the door and get that experience. Sure, this may not work for everyone but for me and what I want to do, all I need is experience and it is the one thing I cannot get.

[BenzoDia]

273. I agree with your point of view. I feel a program like this would've been great for me after I

got my degree and struggled to find work. All I wanted was some experience and the opportuniy to prove myself.

[coalition_unwilling]

286. Did you try calling the two nursing homes and social service program

back? Or visit the facilities in person?

Maybe the staff there are so overwhelmed with serving their populations that they cannot get back to you in a timely manner.

You should try again before agreeing to work as a slave in this program.

[loyalsister]

271. Exactly

Corporations have given us plenty of reasons to be suspicious. Healthy skepticism is one thing, but denying the possibility that there may be some merit to an idea based on absolutist assumptions only limits the possibilities in problem solving.

[gkhouston]

291. The employer should pay minimum wage, at the least.

To do otherwise is saying the worker's labor is of no value. Unless the job is something like working a deep fryer, it's highly unlikely that a worker can be transformed from "worthless" to "valuable" in 192 hours.

Any employer who can't afford to pay a trainee minimum wage won't be able to hire them later. The idea that government would encourage employers to exploit a revolving pool of unemployed trainees for a pittance is hideous.

[NCarolinawoman]

259. "Obama is fearful of Republicans........" is the phrase that stands out for me.

LBJ, where are you?:cry:

[mfcorey1]

261. Beware of these lies over and over and over!

[jpak]

262. "There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that President Obama is planning to include"

so this is a bunch of balony

hater fail

yup

[BenzoDia]

272. Does Georgia Works require the unemployed to participate?

[Better Believe It]

292. Georgia politicians can't force unemployed people to work for nothing. At least not yet.

[kenny blankenship]

303. Old Times there are not forgotten

Not yet - but they are working on it, rest assured.

[BenzoDia]

304. Ah okay. If people can keep collecting unemploymemt w/o being forced into free labor, then

I have no issue the Georgia Works.

[JNinWB]

274. Currently, companies will not hire.

They have no customers. Even taking on the unemployed for no salary for "free" training would put a strain on small businesses, many of which have had to lay off long-term employees because lack of sales.

Most of the comments in this thread are absolutely DELUSIONAL and indicate that none of you have ever owned or managed small businesses. Come back and comment when you know what you are talking about.

Just the record-keeping and the overwhelming Workers' Comp expenses make programs like this (while attractive) almost unmanageable. Many hires do not know how to work---let alone have any marketable skills. If a trainee can't even get to work on time, no employer will fool around.

We hire PAID interns (part-timers) from the local University. They are affordable, extremely intelligent (some Masters level), and need the experience working for a "real" company. These individuals understand the value of being trained by experienced managers. Their parents are also grateful that we will take them on.

We do not take on unpaid interns----they are often unmotivated (no salary) and the training is too time consuming and costly to waste on them. If companies (like us) do not want "free" University students, how much would we want "free" unskilled workers?

[JNinWB]

275. Duplicate

[kenny blankenship]

293. Free Labor - where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, I live in Georgia. Long history here of state protected "free labor". Thought it was supposed to have ended a while back.

[Lars39]

294. So what happens if you don't get hired full time the first time?

Can you do it all again with another employer, or is it like a giant black mark on your record that you didn't get hired the first time around? And who is paying the commuting costs of this employee?

[QC]

296. Well, bringing back indentured servitude is certainly transformational.

Not all transformations are good, though.

[Dragonfli]

300. But it is "transformational" just like Reagan the great!

[QC]

307. We will transform labor back into servitude! n/t

[kenny blankenship]

302. I know people don't like to hear comparisons between the US and Weimar Germany - BUT-

there was this really unpopular unemployment program under the Center Party chancellorship of Heinrich Bruning - the last bourgeois chancellor before Hitler came to power (the other two intervening Chancellors were aristocrats-land owners, Generals, or both, whose governments fell as soon as they had risen). First of all, Bruning had instituted a new tax to finance unemployment benefits, it was a non-graduated poll tax. Then on top of that unpopular measure - and this is where the parallel with the current proposal comes in, Bruning wanted the unemployment insurance recipients to be shipped out to the estates of aristocratic landowners to work in their fields. That proposal provoked a no-confidence vote and was the end of his Chancellorship. Onerous austerity measures, like levying a poll tax during an epidemic of mass unemployment and the proposal to turn unemployment recipients into 20th century serfs, helped to drive large numbers away from the formerly sane Center Party and away from the other middle class oriented parties, and towards the Nazis and Communists. The landowners and Generals tried to take the wobbling Weimar democracy in hand themselves, and then came Hitler.